Current problem with battle materia

You all probably noticed for years that Red Materia is more valued than anything else (especially CRIT materia)

Purple & Yellow Materia tend to fall to the wayside because its useless for raiding and other aspects of the game (least according to some people like the Tenacity materia) , I'm starting to wonder why those materia even exist at this point if anyone barely use that materia.

I would love to see someone change my mind if there is indeed some actual use for Purple & Yellow Materia in any particular setting.

Mao uses some purples for BLMs. Mao tries get spell speed up a bits.

I just give them to the doman enclave every week. There's sadly nothing else to do with them. A lot of them literally sell just barely above the price you'd get for selling them to vendors.

There used to be some orange status resist ones and white elemental resist too. Once everyone agreed that damage output is the only thing that matters, they pretty much weeded out any real options. If they just removed materia slots at this point and increased the base gear stats to compensate it wouldn't really make any difference to the game. Healers are designed to have enough MP without needing piety melds.

It's just how substats work in 14, unfortunately. We have very little substat deviation with builds, unlike WoW where some builds scale with different substats.

Here it's, generally, as much crit as you can get, followed by direct hit, skill/spell speed to comfort, and det when you can't do anything else.
You have very few deviations from this, such as spell speed black mage, because unfortunately crit is king.

In WoW, some specs prefer haste over other stats, some specs prefer mastery over other stats, some specs prefer crit over other stats.

Welcome to 14's job/combat design.

This isn't something I particularly care about, because, look at it this way... it still wouldn't be my decision.

To elaborate, if there were a thousand different substats, and a thousand different jobs, each of which used a different substat for very specific builds, there would already be a guide explaining the optimal pick, made by someone who is smarter than me or at least more invested in this sorta thing than me, and there would be zero actual input for me to give, it'd be the exact same process of going to the NPC, trading an Anthocluster for the right bead, and shoving it into my gear, rinse and repeat until all the slots are filled, the only difference is that the menu would be more of a hassle to navigate.

With that context what difference it makes if I am picking always the same, or always a different one?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

This isn't something I particularly care about, because, look at it this way... it still wouldn't be my decision.

To elaborate, if there were a thousand different substats, and a thousand different jobs, each of which used a different substat for very specific builds, there would already be a guide explaining the optimal pick, made by someone who is smarter than me or at least more invested in this sorta thing than me, and there would be zero actual input for me to give, it'd be the exact same process of going to the NPC, trading an Anthocluster for the right bead, and shoving it into my gear, rinse and repeat until all the slots are filled, the only difference is that the menu would be more of a hassle to navigate.

With that context what difference it makes if I am picking always the same, or always a different one?

---

Every game system ever created.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

I just give them to the doman enclave every week. There's sadly nothing else to do with them. A lot of them literally sell just barely above the price you'd get for selling them to vendors.

---

Outside of endgame its really annoying to me how materia matters...little if at all. If youre above item level materia doesn't matter and when it does its only if youre trying to min/max. I'm not saying make the game harder or require materia but I really wish there was an advantage to utilizing them throughout the game, ya know?

Should just rename this to "Current problem with secondary stats" as the materia is only a symptom of having secondary stats that are essentially dead stats or even better, detrimental for most jobs and crit being king over everything else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AetherHale

Outside of endgame its really annoying to me how materia matters...little if at all. If youre above item level materia doesn't matter and when it does its only if youre trying to min/max. I'm not saying make the game harder or require materia but I really wish there was an advantage to utilizing them throughout the game, ya know?

---

I mean it does actually matter for Crafters/Gatherers, and in Savage+ it's usually helpful, especially if you're in a fresh tier with recently released crafted gear and have to penta.

Which... is something else I really dislike. IF they want to make materia matter that's fine, but if they made it so you had to pentameld everything then I would just outright quit cause pentamelding sucks. I don't care what other MMOs you compare it to either. If it sucks then it sucks.

I'd like something in between where they still matter but not overwhelmingly so, and without any sort of awful overmelding system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Every game system ever created.

---

So what you're saying is that the bar is low, and therefore the fact that the issue doesn't need solving and is instead acceptable.

TBH Materia being slotted actually doesn't matter much in endgame content and not at all in anything else. So I just slot things by personal preference.

Tanks: Tenacity and Skill Speed
Physical DPS: Skills Speed and Red stuff
Magical DPS: Spell Speed and Red Stuff
Healer: Spell speed and Crit.

I don't like tea in my pie... >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eraden

Mao uses some purples for BLMs. Mao tries get spell speed up a bits.

---

Just don't eat them. I know it's tempting. Purple is a delicious color.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

I don't like tea in my pie... >.>

---

Is cream ok?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renalt

Just don't eat them. I know it's tempting. Purple is a delicious color.

---

Awwwww.......but is tasty!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eraden

Awwwww.......but is tasty!

---

Yes, they go great with the water from that blue flaming lake in that mountain. Only issue is ppl expect you to fill the craters that magically appear after burping afterwards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

I'd like something in between where they still matter but not overwhelmingly so, and without any sort of awful overmelding system.

---

I can't speak much to gathering, but when it comes to crafting - melding materia matters, but only so far as the trade-off you wish to make.

Either pentameld to hit certain stats so you can HQ from NQ ingredients while using food/draughts... or pocket that money and spend more time making HQ leathers, ingots, cloths, etc so you can HQ from HQ materials. In that way, it is fairly balanced. The cost of melding the guaranteed slots and the first overmeld isn't so bad. Across one gearset, that's 17 materia for the guaranteed slots and probably 70 for the first overmeld. If a player were to use those slots wisely, they'll probably get near the max CP possible and some craft/control boosts that can help them 100% HQ the materials needed to then 100% HQ the final products.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

TBH Materia being slotted actually doesn't matter much in endgame content and not at all in anything else. So I just slot things by personal preference.

Tanks: Tenacity and Skill Speed
Physical DPS: Skills Speed and Red stuff
Magical DPS: Spell Speed and Red Stuff
Healer: Spell speed and Crit.

I don't like tea in my pie... >.>

---

Please tell me that is a joke...it does matter...a lot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

I just give them to the doman enclave every week. There's sadly nothing else to do with them. A lot of them literally sell just barely above the price you'd get for selling them to vendors.

---

You save them an go to the materia transmuter on the next expansion and sell them for when the next ones are worth more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ranaku

Please tell me that is a joke...it does matter...a lot.

---

Poor opitmization is better than the players I see almost daily that have zero melds.

The purple materia at least still see some use and I'd like if more jobs had the option to build sks/sps vs crit, like BLM. That seems to be one of the easiest ways to encourage build diversity even if it's a binary choice between crit and speed.

As far as I know for piety there's at least different tiers you can meld depending on how much of a cushion you want for MP, although I don't know how many people do that in practice but it's there at least. Tenacity on the other hand is a completely dead stat and I don't know how they'd encourage its use other than making bosses whack tanks so hard that they absolutely need it for its damage reduction, or giving it some other effect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baklava151

The purple materia at least still see some use and I'd like if more jobs had the option to build sks/sps vs crit, like BLM. That seems to be one of the easiest ways to encourage build diversity even if it's a binary choice between crit and speed.

As far as I know for piety there's at least different tiers you can meld depending on how much of a cushion you want for MP, although I don't know how many people do that in practice but it's there at least. Tenacity on the other hand is a completely dead stat and I don't know how they'd encourage its use other than making bosses whack tanks so hard that they absolutely need it for its damage reduction, or giving it some other effect.

---

The reason it works so well for BLM but no other class is because BLM is the only class that has 100% of its damage on the GCD.
BLM doesn't have a single oGCD flat potency hit, all of its oGCDs are GCD enhancing like Ley Lines or Sharpcast.
But if a good chunk of your dps comes from oGCDs which are unaffected by SpS/SkS then it quickly loses value compared to crit, which aways affects both.

And piety is nothing but "idiot ensurance".
It's a completely boring, practically dead stat. You either have enough to ress those idiots that keep doing the carpet RP or you don't and any excess MP at the end of the fight is just wasted secondary stay.
If anything, piety needs a rework from the ground up because right now it's the worst stat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rilifane

The reason it works so well for BLM but no other class is because BLM is the only class that has 100% of its damage on the GCD.
BLM doesn't have a single oGCD flat potency hit, all of its oGCDs are GCD enhancing like Ley Lines or Sharpcast.
But if a good chunk of your dps comes from oGCDs which are unaffected by SpS/SkS then it quickly loses value compared to crit, which aways affects both.

---

That's true but even then some jobs like SAM will still meld some SkS to a certain point depending on what they want, and even though the fastest tier is a slight damage loss it's still very viable. Not that I take SAM into high-difficulty content but I still like going fast as possible so it's nice when the option is there.

Materia is useful for being able to customize your secondary stats, for example to get to a particular gcd tier or being able to choose between crit-heavy (and therefore variance-heavy) builds or more consistent builds.

It's small changes but it makes enough of a difference for high level play that I think it's worth keeping around.

If I was to make any change I would like to get rid of overmelds, or at least change them from a completely rng-system to something where maybe you have to spend more materia for the overmeld slot, but a consistent amount of materia per slot so people can plan better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baklava151

That's true but even then some jobs like SAM will still meld some SkS to a certain point depending on what they want, and even though the fastest tier is a slight damage loss it's still very viable. Not that I take SAM into high-difficulty content but I still like going fast as possible so it's nice when the option is there.

---

The difference is that for every other class it's just "SpS/ SkS to comfortable tier or for better alignment". There is some wiggle room but let's not pretend all classes have the same freedom as BLM there.
And the reason is simply being a good chunk of other classes' dps coming from oGCDs. Yes, there are some tier but if you take DRG for example, it's not "anywhere between this and this GCD works" - you have specific GCD tiers and you can pick one which suits you best. SAM has the most freedom of the melees which is why it's not a good example to bring.

I never said you cannot meld any SpS/ SkS EVER.
I just said that it quickly loses value over crit - and that is a simple fact and why we have this "crit > all" meta when it comes to melding, BLM being the exception.

The purple ones are important, since they affect cool downs. But the yellow ones... I mean, if you're needing Piety as a healer, maybe just get it from gear. I'm all for scrapping it entirely. My main issue is that lower tier materia are practically worthless outside of overmelds. At least give us the option to upgrade them to a higher tier. I wouldn't even mind if it was something stupid like a 10:1 ratio.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BluexBird

The purple ones are important, since they affect cool downs. But the yellow ones... I mean, if you're needing Piety as a healer, maybe just get it from gear. I'm all for scrapping it entirely. My main issue is that lower tier materia are practically worthless outside of overmelds. At least give us the option to upgrade them to a higher tier. I wouldn't even mind if it was something stupid like a 10:1 ratio.

---

Even that would mean nothing to Mao. Mao has 2K Tier 9 clusters and over 2K Tier 10 clusters from doing hunts trains. Mao could tank the entire materia market if Mao wanted to convert and sells them all. Is frankly so much battle materia floatings around that gettings battle materia way easy. Mao would kill for ability to converts clusters to greens or blues. Thems bit harders to gets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rilifane

The difference is that for every other class it's just "SpS/ SkS to comfortable tier or for better alignment". There is some wiggle room but let's not pretend all classes have the same freedom as BLM there.
And the reason is simply being a good chunk of other classes' dps coming from oGCDs. Yes, there are some tier but if you take DRG for example, it's not "anywhere between this and this GCD works" - you have specific GCD tiers and you can pick one which suits you best. SAM has the most freedom of the melees which is why it's not a good example to bring.

I never said you cannot meld any SpS/ SkS EVER.
I just said that it quickly loses value over crit - and that is a simple fact and why we have this "crit > all" meta when it comes to melding, BLM being the exception.

---

Well even if it just ends up being different tiers rather than full-on crit vs speed builds, I'd still love to see that option on more jobs. I don't know how it would look since that would depend on the job and would require some big changes but that would still be my pipe dream if they want to move away from crit being so dominant.*

*I think Yoshi said at some point he doesn't like how powerful crit is but I can't find where he said it, if anyone has it I'd greatly appreciate it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BluexBird

At least give us the option to upgrade them to a higher tier.

---

That already sorta exists, but it is hardly reliable, you can give 5 Materia to Mutamix in Central Thanalan, and he will return a random Materia of same color of equal or higher tier if they are all the same color, or a random Gathering/Crafting Materia of same or higher tier if they are different colors, though hardly anyone would consider using this for upgrading Materia since the chance is fairly low, and instead use it to turn useless materia into Crafting/Gathering Materia that is actually decently valuable for how easy it is to get them.

There is even an achievement for getting a tier upgrade from Mutamix, and a special animation the first time it happens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jazzcatte

Materia is useful for being able to customize your secondary stats, for example to get to a particular gcd tier or being able to choose between crit-heavy (and therefore variance-heavy) builds or more consistent builds.

It's small changes but it makes enough of a difference for high level play that I think it's worth keeping around.

If I was to make any change I would like to get rid of overmelds, or at least change them from a completely rng-system to something where maybe you have to spend more materia for the overmeld slot, but a consistent amount of materia per slot so people can plan better.

---

Mao likes jazzcatte suggestion. Mao once lost 80 Tier 9 materias to a single meld.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

That already sorta exists, but it is hardly reliable, you can give 5 Materia to Mutamix in Central Thanalan, and he will return a random Materia of same color of equal or higher tier if they are all the same color, or a random Gathering/Crafting Materia of same or higher tier if they are different colors, though hardly anyone would consider using this for upgrading Materia since the chance is fairly low, and instead use it to turn useless materia into Crafting/Gathering Materia that is actually decently valuable for how easy it is to get them.

There is even an achievement for getting a tier upgrade from Mutamix, and a special animation the first time it happens.

---

That's just not good enough though. And it's cumbersome to go to Mutamix every single time you want to convert materia, just for a CHANCE of ending up with something higher.