A Crafters Plea

Please make an official post about Craftsmanship and Magic Craftsmanship so it's a little more clear. I know there is a lot of speculation but I have not once seen anything official or anything concrete with solid evidence.
I know you want to "leave it to the players" but I am tired of guessing and there is still a lot more to leave up to the players.


Alternatively, if anyone has seen an official post about this please share it.


Edit: Please support this thread so we could hopefully get a rep to respond!

I would like to second this request. It's very confusing, and not documented at all.

R

3rd........................................................

I vote for increased transparency!

Ideally to the point where we *could* see the diminishing returns numerically and... oh...

*halts pushing that agenda*

I was hoping this post wouldn't be dumped into the endless abyss of dead threads. lol
If anyone could maybe find an official post or if a Rep could hopefully give a reply, I would very much appreciate it.
If you all could support this thread also, it would be much appreciated.

I don't think I've seen anything of an updated sort.

I wonder how much crafting might change come 2.0. If such is the case and the existing stats are modified / eliminated... we may not ever get a response.

The most I've ever seen what I thought was an official comment was that:
Some recipes favor more craftsmanship and others favor more magic craftsmanship.

But that was before crafting was overhauled. And it wasn't quite known what recipes were what.

+1
With 2.0 we get a recipe book ingame. Make it that it say if the recipes is optimal with normal craftmanship or magic craftmanship.

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Originally Posted by Felis

+1
With 2.0 we get a recipe book ingame. Make it that it say if the recipes is optimal with normal craftmanship or magic craftmanship.

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This would be a great idea. I'd love it if they added something like this.

Last thread didn't make too much progress but I'm genna dump all of this in here for a kickstart~

Le dump.

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Originally Posted by Fadigre

Hello General discussion!

Today I am quoting a whole bunch of stuff from the Weaver forum!
Whilst this may seem a little counter productive believe me I do have reasons!

I'm am Armourer and if I hadn't used the search function I wouldn't have found the thread. The topic covers all crafts so deserves to be out here!
I also believe that if the thread was in general discussion there would be a lot more feedback!

But anyway, here we go -

I'm trying to find out which recipes are physical recipes and which are magical recipes so I can gear myself accordingly.

Mikita has this to say:

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Originally Posted by Mikita

A friend who is a R50 weaver told me that when the primary shards required are
- Fire, Earth, Wind then the recipe is Craftsmanship
- Lightning, Ice, Water then the recipe is Magic Craftsmanship

I'm just taking his word for it. ^^

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Which was very nicely responded to by VenusDoom

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Originally Posted by VenusDoom

I have also wondered/experimented alot with Craft vs. Magic Craft and think there may be truth to the idea of shards dictating the type of a particular synth. However, my opinion is a little different from above. Please note that the following suggestions are just observations from my own time spent weaving, I have no "hard evidence".

For example, undyed cloth (which takes only earth shards) seem easily done with a +Craftsmanship setup, assuming you are the appropriate rank. Dyed cloth, which take earth shards AND water shards, seem more difficult with the same craftsmanship setup, even at the appropriate rank. Swap out a few pieces of Craft gear for Magic Craft gear, and the difference in rate of successful actions is pretty noticeable on those dyed cloths. I've noticed the same with undyed vs. dyed leathers in Leatherworking as well.

My opinion is this: Let's use Wine-Red Velveteen as an example. This synth takes 15 earth shards and 5 water shards. Assuming the theory is true, that would hint that our synth is largely physical with a bit of magic required, almost like a sub craft. Stack a good amount of Craftsmanship with a moderate amount of M.Craft, and you'll see better results than going 100% in either direction, or going heavy on M.Craft and light on Craft.

As a R.50 Weaver with a full Craftsmanship setup and almost no M.Craft, I was wondering how I could still hit critical fails trying to HQ Cotton Yarn (~r.12?) and lose ~20 durability despite the huge gap between my rank and the synth's rank. Cotton Yarn uses lightning crystals, which are under our proposed magical category. Switched in only one or two M.Craft pieces and voila! Much easier, even using only Bold Synthesis.

This would also help explain the use of Main/Offhand tools (other than to produce different HQ results). Generally mainhand tools favor Craft and offhand tools favor M.Craft. If you have a largely magical synth and a poor M.Craft setup, switching to the offhand tool with greater M.Craft seems to help boost success rate (or at least it seems to me).

It would also explain why the majority of Alchemy synths (which use alot of water and lightning shards) seem to go better with Magic Craft setups.

Anyway, if anyone has any observations or suggestions regarding the shard theory (or any other theories) let's hear them! Crafting is such a huge part of the game, it would be nice to have some more info to work with.

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Although Tymora seems to believe otherwise with this:

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Originally Posted by Tymora

Varies by item family, no other tricks to it.

All threads are magical, but if you use offhand you end up getting x2 instead of +1.
All cloth are physical. (It used to be all dyed cloth are magical).

For finished items, it might go like:
All Robes are XXX.
All Doublets are YYY.

Just test with the cheapest member of the item family.
No time to do extensive tests. Sometimes I can't tell the difference either.

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Which is then followed up by this:

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Originally Posted by Monkor

This seems to be holding true so far for me.

Cotton yarns crafting well on the wheel, switching over to cloth and using the wheel (trying that first since primary is lightning shard) yielded many unstable lightning elements during the craft, and some near-breaks. Switched over to needle and absolutely no problem.

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But is this all there is to it?
What do you think, General discussion?

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If you scroll over the stats in your attribute window, Craftsmanship says "Your ability to synthesize items with physical characteristics" and Magic Craftsmanship says "Your ability to synthesize items with magical characteristics". I've always assumed that recipes involved with making gear for melee is craftsmanship and recipes involved with making gear for casters is magic craftsmanship.

that's a fair assumption. but i should think we wouldn't have to assume with something this basic, and crucial to the success/failure of a synth. come on SE, drop some official knowledge. I bet anything things are gonna get revised for 2.0 anyway lol

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Originally Posted by Ryans

If you scroll over the stats in your attribute window, Craftsmanship says "Your ability to synthesize items with physical characteristics" and Magic Craftsmanship says "Your ability to synthesize items with magical characteristics". I've always assumed that recipes involved with making gear for melee is craftsmanship and recipes involved with making gear for casters is magic craftsmanship.

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Here we go again!

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Originally Posted by Fadigre

What is it that gives it that characteristic? It could still be the shards themselves!


If it does come down to the item itself they really should have something defining what type it is - if it's magical or physical

Especially since the game has the courtesy to 'explain' to us the difference between Craftsmanship and Magic Craftsmanship!

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Originally Posted by Fadigre

what defines the items being produced?
Which of their characteristics makes them magical or physical?

It could still come down to the shards used in the recipe

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I just can't let myself believe that Enix would leave what is physical and what is magical down to the players. Perhaps it's common sense but not everybody comes from the same upbringing in the same culture. Every item comes with thousands of interpretations! If that is how items are then it's hardly fair on the players and not thought out very well at all.

There needs to be a characteristic involved in every single recipe that has a variable

I'd like to do extensive testing on one synth using magic craft/craft and then naked and see if theres actually much of a difference. From my crafting experience, the differences just don't matter enough to bother working out whats best for each synth.

I've tried a lot when I'm levelling if the synth is going bad and im stacked in one or the other I'll change and I've NEVER noticed a difference in success/quality changing out from craft to magic craft one way or the other

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Originally Posted by Fadigre

Last thread didn't make too much progress but I'm genna dump all of this in here for a kickstart~

Le dump.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryans

If you scroll over the stats in your attribute window, Craftsmanship says "Your ability to synthesize items with physical characteristics" and Magic Craftsmanship says "Your ability to synthesize items with magical characteristics". I've always assumed that recipes involved with making gear for melee is craftsmanship and recipes involved with making gear for casters is magic craftsmanship.

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Both are simply speculation and don't really show solid proof or help in any way.
The shards theory has no proof out there for it yet and it holds contradictory statements between different people. For all we know they could just be seeing patterns when they aren't there.
Would a Monk weapon be magical? Or physical? Yes, it's a physical weapon but Monks use magical attributes. Would it be a mix of both? These answers can not be found with simply saying craft governs physical items and magic craft governs magical items. And they what about materials? How would you determine which parts are magical or physical if a part is used in both magic and physical items?

An official post would be extremely welcome. Even if I need to have a crafting set for every occasion I still would like to know what the differences are before I begin the synth.

I'm gonna agree w/ the OP here, I'd really like to see something official on this.

yes we need to know what each crafting stats does and how its linked to anything.

Bump. I'd still really like some info on this.

honestly I've just made sure i had gear with both jic *shrugs* or if i had a shirt with high magic craftmanship i'd go for pants with high reg and so on and so forth add in a bit of control or more and you've got it

but don't mind a more real answer to this than my own guess work ^_^