So ive seen alot of meta analysis of all jobs but i wanted to ask something a bit more light hearted and as a healer main i want to aim this at other healers.
What is everyones favorite visual aspects of the class you play? Like artifact glams, attack animations, job specific poses, weapon designs or even just the over all theme of the job. I am curious to know what the non gameplay things that drew you to your healer of choice is (assuming it wasnt the gameplay that drew you to it) and if you would change any of it.
Aesthetics of healer
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03-02-2023, 04:55 AMKele_StarAesthetics of healer
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03-02-2023, 05:03 AMRecon1o6
Astrologian, I'm a huge sucker for space and time magic. I love the TEA weapon especially but I will never get it unless they release a solo ultimate and make ast fun to play again
White mage too, I loved my earth (especially stoneja's break sound), wind and the water magic the enemies get to use and we dont. The wings are pretty too
sadly both jobs lost a lot of the cool vfx. bright white lights are so dull and make the healers samey. Rip white mage. Now its white flower mage.
that being said, I seen some modded animations and holy shit those are amazing. One I saw was an earthly star with a clock inside it using the 12's symbols. (translucent too so you can still see teh floor and aoes) -
03-02-2023, 05:24 AMty_taurusI deeply love Sage's style and aesthetic. I want to get more animations that really take advantage of the fantasy Sage is supposed to have (Death to the bugzapper).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele_Star
I think visually, WHM, AST, and SGE all really deliver on the fantasy of their respective identities. SCH is the only one that I think feels a little aimless, like a more tepid midpoint between WHM and SGE. -
03-02-2023, 05:32 AMForsakenRoe
I think that aesthetically, AST and SGE are the best, WHM I miss the elemental devastation, I feel like the crunchy sound of the Stone spells 'sounds' more damaging than Glare. SCH needs a good looking at, aesthetic wise
Best one I saw was a 'necromancy/blood magic' WHM one, everything was blacks and reds. We really need a dark edgy healer to go with the dark edgy DRK and RPRQuote:
Originally Posted by Recon1o6
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03-02-2023, 05:52 AMty_taurusThis is what I'd want to see from SCH. Replace Biolysis with Bio III and Miasma III from old SMN since those animations still exist and really hammer into its ACN roots--a poison mage turned healer with the help of an ancient faerie companion.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe
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03-02-2023, 10:08 AMSebazy
Visually AST hits the spot for me, the original AF looked great, the spells look good even with effects turned down.
SCH has thematically and visually been lost in the wilds for a while now. The early ARR look was actually my favourite, doubly so given it didn't have the cursed BiS look that WHM was saddled with at the time. Now it just feels like it doesn't really know what it's identity is anymore, it's just a bit of a mess.
Not bothered with Sadge, no comment there.
WHM has always been my heart's pick even when I either wasn't allowed to prog on it because I was the only capable SCH on hand or WHM was just too bad to bring along. The gear is generally decent looking (Except BCOB, thank god glamours are a thing now) and visually it's coherent despite having evolved with ShB. If I had to gripe, I really don't like the new Holy 3 sound. Other than that the glare thing has warmed up on me and the rest of it's kit is visually 'fine'. Not quite AST but way better than current day SCH IMHO. -
03-02-2023, 02:20 PMKele_StarSages futuristic theme is amazing, what i remember most though about it (and i guess this is kind of a wierd thing to bring up) is the sound effects for all of its attacks, they sell the high tech theme soo well its so nice on the ears.Quote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
Same! I picked astro basically souly because of the space magic theme! I had no idea the animations use to be so flashy, were there spell effects more themed around the earth and water than they are now? also did they ever have a water damage spell or have those always been only for healing spells? (I only started playing just before EW came out)Quote:
Originally Posted by Recon1o6
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03-02-2023, 02:23 PMKele_StarOff the top of my head the first thing i think of is the move Wish from final fantasy tactics, where it takes hp from yourself to heal your allys, aside from that though a necromancer or witch docter would definately fit an edgelord healer theme. All i can think of is them using a giant docters needle as a weapon haha If they really wanted to get wierd with it though and fuse the poison and fairy themes together they could do a giant mushroom theme XDQuote:
Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe
the crazy thing about that is white mage is one of those jobs that have been in the whole series so there are alot of diffrent styles they could use for its armour specifically. also wierd question, did holys animation ever look diffrent? i have this wierd feeling it didnt use to be a giant light ball explosion, but it might just be meQuote:
Originally Posted by Sebazy
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03-02-2023, 05:56 PMSebazyI'm not aware of it ever changing? I'll plead guilty to running with effects turned off almost entirely back when I was more hardcore so I could have missed it though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele_Star
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03-02-2023, 06:04 PMfulminating
The combination of squiggly arcanima glyphs and techno chain stratagem things works pretty well. Not to mention that none of the other healers have the sheer style scholar does when casting ruin 2.
Astrologian is a close second in terms of aesthetics, the celestial animations are very visually appealing in isolation.
I can’t make head nor tail of sage’s theme. It’s a jigsaw’s fifth corner piece.
White mage I think felt more cohesive prior to glare/dia. Hopefully they’ll miraculously turn into quake, tornado and deluge variants in the next expansion, but I can’t see that happening. -
03-03-2023, 06:29 AMRenathras
I hate CNJ (not a fan of the nature, Druid stuff - I don't DISLIKE Druids, but I want them to be DRUIDS, not White Mages), but I love WHM.
WHM has - and nails - the typical White Mage aesthetic of a holy, faith based Healer, with strong heals and few attack spells, but ones empowered with holy light. It's such an iconic class fantasy existing across genres and is the iconic White Mage from all of Final Fantasy history. Though it's bereft of the typical buffing sub-role of normal White Mages, it has powerful, light based spells (highest personal DPS of the Healers), powerful heals, and a direct kit with no guile or tricks; it's a holy traveling priest, not a Druid or Shaman. It nails the class fantasy pretty close to perfectly and feels like the experience you'd get with a White Mage playing one across MOST games of the series. No silly elemental magics here (once it finally grows out of them in Shadowbringers), this is a HOLY Healer. I also love the "floaty" animations on Glare and Holy, and WISH there was a heal that had them as well. I'm not sure why, I just think they're cool. It's also kinda funny chain casting Glare if in an area with water on the ground since you're the only Job able to almost totally levitate above the water while everyone else is getting their feet wet. :D
CNJ sets up players for failure, because they are expecting a Druid/Shaman class and then get the rug puled from them when they actually become White Mages instead. It should honestly be a different Job itself. I liked WoW Resto Druids, so I might like CNJ if it was actually its own Job - elemental spells, GCD healing kit, a bit of HoTs (well, at least in ARR Medica 2 was a CNJ spell...it's now WHM exclusive if you remove the WHM Job stone) - it could be a fun Job on its own if it was actually a JOB on its own.
I also love SCH. It has one of the most solid and consistent aesthetics in the game of a military officer and academic, right down to the tools it uses. It has battlefield commands, both through its adjunct subordinate (Eos) and party support commands (Emergency Tactics, Deployment Tactics, Expedient). The Job quests also make clear that SCH is a support and protection magic based Healer. In lore, the Scholars of Nym were able to hold off the superior forces of Mhach not by having powerful spells, but by having tactical mastery of their weaker magics, working with their Faerie partners (this is why I HATE the spell Dissipation...), and with the MRDs of the Royal Marines, commanding and protecting them with strong defensive magics. Adloquium, Succor, and Sacred Soil are probably the most iconic and visually consistent and powerful healing spells in the game, as they all directly represent the party being shielded by the SCH. As Alka Zolka said after the level 60 quest, never had he felt so protected while waging battle than he did while under the aegis of your powerful defensive spells. Casting Adlo on someone makes me think of Aqua using her Protect spell on Terra in that KH:Birth By Sleep trailer. Even if it ultimately was only a momentary reprieve, the idea of just completely blunting an attack is extremely appealing to me (which is the one thing I love about AST: CU). And I still love its Broil IV animation. Makes me think of the red plasma turrets from Halo, and that's cool to me for some reason.
Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix Secret Ending [HD 1080p] https://youtu.be/r8RCNgZWAeQ?t=92 (just after this timestamp)
AST is the Job I honestly dislike the most, to the point of ALMOST hating it. While I tend to like Time-Space Magic, AST isn't it. No Haste, no Slow, no Stop, no Reflect, no Teleport, no Demi, Gravity is kind of a throw away spell, and no Meteor. Moreover, it has something else that I dislike, Tarot cards and occultist divination, which I've never put stock in, paired with astrology, a perversion of astronomy (something I actually love). And while I like buffing my allies, AST does it in the worst ways possible, a Quantum Mechanic's like buff system (unreliable, RNG based buffs that you have little control over) OR boring, samey buffs that don't do anything that feels impactful or noticeable. And I really don't care for its...I'm not even sure what "Wavkin" is supposed to be, but the dresses just don't do it for me. WHM at least sticks with robes, but a lot of AST armors are just dresses with a lot of random bits that make me think of dime store fortune teller conmen/women. The sad thing is, AST has a lot of things I COULD like, but...then a lot I don't. It's also the only Healer that doesn't have a projectile attack. WHM, SCH, and SGE all actually shoot stuff at the bad guys. It's just aesthetics, but since we're talking aesthetics, that makes it relevant. When I'm on Hunt trains doing the Marks in Ultima Thul, WHM, SCH, and SGE all have shots you can track from your character to the boss. You can even identify other nearby Healers by seeing their projectile animations. But not AST. Malific just kind of appears around the boss. Even Malific 1 (with its Ruin/Ruin 2 copied animation) is better than Fell Malific... The one thing I really DO love about AST, though, as mentioned above, is Collective Unconscious. UNFORTUNATELY, the "proper" way to use it is just flash it and move on, not throw it up and hold it, actively channeling defensive magics to shield your party.
The overall AST aesthetic is just all over the place and it isn't self consistent. Is it a Time-Mage? A Space-Mage? A Diviner? A Barrier protector/healer? A support/buffer? It has no consistency outside of its Job specific armor...which is the weakest of all the Healers and the one I dislike the most. (At least it's floaty when casting Gravity, I guess...?) I'm completely glad it's there, for people that like it, but it's very much not for me. Though I like it's PvP version, I guess...? Still don't care for the aesthetics, though.
SGE again nails the class fantasy. It's kind of funny because it's not the SAGE class fantasy, but I can overlook this since it works so well. The Sage class fantasy is of a learned scholarly wizard...but SCH does that. And in lore, SGEs use magiced focusing stones to channel their spells. But in gameplay, SGEs have little mini-drones like a Gundam or Eve Online space ships, sending them to and fro and pew pewing with them like awesome laser guns. It's not Chemist (FFT arguably healer which uses elemental hand cannons), but it's close enough. It has a really tech theme with the animations and designs of its attacks and forcefields, and even Icarus' using the Nouliths as a short burst jetpack. And it just feels good to play, with a lot of interesting and divers abilities that have a consistent visual theme distinct from the other Healers (more purple/blue than the others' green). Kardia is also a neat ability when doing solo stuff like PotD and HoH as you can largely police your health without needing to constantly recast Regen or the like, while you also have good oGCD heals like Durochole and Taurochole and Kerachole (regen and mitigation) if you need them. And the laser spam of Dosis is just...I dunno, FUN. It's so cool to see and looks kinda like the energy swirling proton packs from Ghostbusters. Toxicon looks like a strong damage attack, Pneuma laser looks neat (even if it doesn't do as much damage as it seems like it should for a giant laser), and all the shields look good other than Eukrasia Prognosis not really having a shield animation like Succor's individual shells around individual party members does. I also kinda wish you got to see the Diagnosis/Prognosis cast more often (the animation in my signature pic) because it's kind of a cool animation and you never even see it unless you deliberately stop cast them. But those are minor complaints for a Job I feel is almost perfect overall.
Again, I'm not sure it's the right aesthetic for a Sage class fantasy, but as a Gundam techno mage, it nails it. And since that's a fun class fantasy, I'm not complaining. :D
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I think the one I like the aesthetic of the most would have to be SCH, then SGE. SCH > SGE >> WHM >>> CNJ >>>>>> AST -
03-03-2023, 07:02 AMRenathrasMaybe it's just me, but I always considered AST that. Especially nAST.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe
DRK, AST, RPR, BLM - Edgy party gogogo.
EDIT:
Fair enough...but I generally don't have that problem. If I'm hungry, I generally know what I want to eat, and if I don't, I'm usually not hungry and just wait a while longer until I DO know what I want to eat. Though that trick does work when I run into people that are in that limbo and it's helpful to get them to make up their minds. So there's truth in that part, anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Semirhage
Oh, the history and stuff might be more interesting, but I put little stock in divination. While luck/random chance does have a big play in how events play out, when it comes to personal actions, I think free will/choice are the deciding factors. Kind of the Han Solo "good blaster at your side" thing. :) -
03-03-2023, 07:29 AMSemirhageTangent: that's too bad. Tarot cards have a fascinating history behind their usage and their eventual evolution into modern playing cards. The metaphorical journey represented in each suit and through the major arcana are also really cool. The art has awesome symbolism in it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renathras
I've found the trick is to think of it this way (and this will seem like a wholly unrelated thing at first): You know how sometimes you aren't sure what you want for dinner, so you flip a coin? Heads is Chinese, tails is Greek, that sort of thing? And when it lands on tails, you have that moment where you go "aw, I was hoping for heads". Well there you go. Now you know what you wanted. The coin wasn't magic; it didn't tell you what to pick or impart anything you didn't already know. It tricked your brain into a scenario where it revealed the preference that was there to begin with. Treating tarot cards like that makes them much more useful. -
03-03-2023, 09:19 AMEstecka
I love AST, but I prefer the simplicity of the lower level weapons and spells (Gravity and Malefic).
Probably because to me, those feel more closely related to space than divination, I think mathematical elegance fits them better than fancy ornaments. -
03-03-2023, 12:10 PMelioaiko
I think all of them have their own cool flair.
My favorite is AST because I love space themes and the astrology motifs are gorgeous. The job basically stays relevant because of the sfx when the devs butcher their kit. Celestial Intersection has a beautiful curtain of star dust covering the target. Earthly Star blows up a galaxy is always a joy. Neutral Sect has mini planets orbiting you feels like you are fate itself.
SGE has tech based aesthetic which is awesome. The only thing I wish is that they dabble in more color schemes than blues and purples. Pan/Haima are my favorite.
SCH has a similar tech aesthetic with a bit of fantasy. I wish they would lean into the military tactician a bit more. The job fantasy already has a bit of Orator (Tactics) aesthetic. I want more poison designs for the offensive side and they already have the fairy healing aspect down. Side note, I wish they would return to the look of Broil 2, 3 and 4 are a letdown and look boring. Broil 2 felt cool, because it was like you were shooting missiles/fire magic at the enemy and the sound effect was satisfying.
WHM used to be my favorite with the nature elements but the job has moved toward a holy/air/water theme. I just hate the color scheme. Misery is gorgeous, Holy upgrade is pretty too. Temperance will never be pretty because it looks cheap and reuses the wedding wings prism sfx. Stone IV is still my preferred dps spam. There was something about throwing rocks with that crunching sound effect was so satisfying. And yes, I still want Aero 3 back. -
03-05-2023, 08:40 AMKele_StarNeutral sect always is a joy to look at because of exactly whatyou said. I really with there were more planet references in there tool kit it would be so cool to see a diamond rain attack to reference neptunes weather or an ability to reference saturns rings. And yeah earthly star is probably my favorite attack in the game because of what you said above <3Quote:
Originally Posted by elioaiko
The star shower of Macrocosmos is also kind of related of what you said as well, more space based attacks, im not really sure what fall malefic is suppose to be visuallyQuote:
Originally Posted by Estecka
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03-05-2023, 11:09 AMConnor
For me it’s always been Scholar that has the best healer aesthetic. I love the visual effects for its shield effects like Adloquium and Succor. I still put Sacred Soil down whenever I’m on my plot just to admire how it looks lol (plus it’s oddly satisfying to smack a dummy on the head with a book lol).
Chain Stratagem has great visual effects too with the screens, though I’ve always wondered wtf our chars are doing during it. Like, we conjure up all those screens…then cover our eyes with the book lol. I still love it though.
In terms of offence honestly I think the first version of Broil (aka Microwave lol) was peak visuals. There was something satisfying about pointing at an enemy and watching space warp around them (though I guess it’s the aether that’s warping which causes it to explode lol). And ofc it sounded like a broken microwave for absolutely no reason. I feel like the ‘throwing fireballs’ thing is kinda bland to lol, Black Mage kinda has that covered already, so i find Broil IV to be quite boring to look at. The sigils are cool I guess.
Eos and Selene look fine, their abilities aren’t the most exciting visually but then I guess the devs are going for ‘fairies are the Egis Seraph is the demi’ style thing. Seraph’s abilities aren’t very exciting either lol. Not bad, just kinda ‘meh’. Considering Seraph is basically desire for salvation given physical form, you’d think her abilities would be a little flashier. -
03-08-2023, 08:35 AMAllegor
I was never a fan of sci fi, high tech, medic/labs etc so Sage is the healer I would normally avoid like the plague... but because it's just so fun to play, I overlook it almost entirely.
AST, on the other hand, is right up my alley with tarot, the zodiac, and just a pinch of witchcraft, but between neutering the cards, deleting noct, and those dumb seals, I don't want anything to do with it anymore.
So...yeah. I enjoy the healer whose aesthetics I like the least, and dislike the healer whose aesthetics I like the most. Ironic isn't it? -
03-09-2023, 04:41 PMNamiRocket
Well, I came to this game from Warcraft, like many people. I'm a holy priest main in that game. I'd tried to get into this game over and over again for the last decade, since the launch of A Realm Reborn on PS3, and it just didn't click for me until Shadowbringers for some reason (both bunny ears and the other game's expansion being trash probably helped).
My plan for years was always that I was going to eventually play a white mage. I was a red mage main in FFXI years ago, but those weren't in this game when I first started, so I decided white mage. At the time, you needed to level both conjurer and arcanist to unlock white mage, so I'd had it in my head for all those years that, if I was ever going to get back into the game, I'd be leveling my arcanist first and conjurer second. Mostly because I liked Limsa Lominsa a lot more than I liked Gridania.
Well, when I created my third character in eight or so years back in 2021, I started nearing the level I needed to be on arcanist, according to my outdated info, and then looked into switching when I realized... oh, they changed this. You only need to level conjurer for white mage now. I've only been leveling the scholar/summoner base class. So, I looked into what a scholar did, how they did it, their whole aesthetic, etc. I was like... healing with faeries and books? Meh. I wasn't really sold on the idea, but I was right there and figured, why not at least give it a try before switching to conjurer.
It very quickly grew on me from there. I enjoyed the tonberry related class quests a lot. I enjoyed doing more mitigation of damage than direct healing. I really enjoyed being in dramatic cut scenes where any other Warrior of Light would emphatically pull out a sword or a bow or a gunblade and I'm over here with just a big book and a mean stare through my dorky glasses. It almost always made me laugh. Not even mentioning that, as a viera, I'm locked out of 95% of head wear. Being the glasses class just felt like a weirdly perfect fit for me and I ran with it and never looked back. It was really just a happy accident. -
03-09-2023, 05:03 PMRein_eon_Osborne
SCH = My main, first job used to finish basically everything, and the one I put most effort into. Almost everything clicks to me. I love green & fae motifs in general. PvP SCH brought it to next level by actually being able to spread the disease. It would’ve been perfect aesthetically to my taste if it wasn’t for Seraph being… there. For whatever reason. They’re really out of place imo.
WHM = I enjoyed their aesthetic until they learn their twinkling light magics & suddenly forget most of their conjury aesthetic. It’s mostly downhill from that point. Temperance & some of their relic having butterfly-particles slapped on feels like stolen from SCH. I liked their flowery insignias though.
AST = Top notch, elegantly made VFX. If I’m picking a main job purely from aesthetic appeal, AST would’ve won that place.
SGE = Meh. I’m never a fan of anything that looks ‘mecha/gundam’-esque so the job’s aesthetic completely went out of my radar when they’ve revealed the job’s early concept. Another thing that disappoints me further is how they don’t have more frontal cone/line AoEs. I was under an impression of them having at least one big laser to smite or frontal laser spray. Alas we have Pneuma but it looks and feels weak. -
03-12-2023, 02:01 AMKele_Starits funny you say that because thats exactly why i decided to main astro ^-^Quote:
Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne
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03-12-2023, 06:15 AMSemirhageA basic rundown on tarot history, symbolism, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Semirhage
In the 1400s, Tarot was a card game played in Italy. It had nothing to do with divination at all. It's gone through many revisions since then, especially as the cards spread to Germany and France, mainly changes to the names of the suits (coins/pentacles/discs/bells, cups/flowers, rods/sticks/wands, swords/pikes) and to the content of the trump cards (huge differences between regional versions). Modern tarot has settled on four suits of 14 cards (Ace-10 + four face cards, Knave, Knight, Queen, and King) and 22 trump cards (labeled 0-21), for a total of 78. Modern playing cards are based on this setup: diamonds (coins = money!), clubs (wands and sticks, hitting instruments), spades (swords. Something about a corruption of pikes and spears that looked like shovels to somebody), and hearts (cups and flowers. Love themes.) with the trump panoply being compressed into the number zero card, the Fool, as joker(s).
The cartomancy showed up in the 1800s, when French occultists claimed the cards had ancient ties to Egypt, I ching, Kabbalah, etc. Though there's evidence that the concept of playing cards arrived in Italy from China and the Mid East, modern tarot is so divorced from those origins that it's a major stretch. For looking into the divination symbolism I'd recommend the Rider-Waite card art; a lot of custom and ancient tarot sets have gorgeous art, but RW's art actually has the card's "meaning" symbolized in the image. All details below are therefore some combination of old card game fun folklore with a layer of 19th century French mysticism sprinkled on top. Plus I think knowing what the cards mean in a general sense makes references to them even more enjoyable; when you know that The Fool is supposed to represent beginnings, the Fool card in the Binding of Isaac teleporting you to the starter room...makes sense!
In the divination sense, the suit cards and trump cards are renamed the minor and major arcana. Without detailing individual cards, there are *themes* that go through the deck. Each suit represents a classical element and an aspect of life experience, which goes through a "journey" of ups and downs from Ace to 10. The face cards usually represent people connected to this; the page is an idealistic neophyte, knight is an overexcited crusader, queen is a wise and calm adept, king is a stern and commanding master.
Cups: water and emotions. You start at the ace with "new love! new thing that brings you passion and joy!", go through the honeymoon phase, a breakup of some kind, crying, moving on, and eventually coming out stronger for it.
Coins: Earth and materials. Ace starts as "New job. New house. New pile of money.", takes you through hard work to build things, not appreciating it and losing it all, then patiently rebuilding stronger than ever.
Swords: Air and thoughts. This is the suit people tend to hate because it has a lot of bad/sad cards. Starts you with new ideas, pretty quickly dives into disappointment and self-reflection, ends on existential crises and hitting rock bottom.
Wands: Fire and actions. Starts with taking charge and moving forward with a new (thing), includes exploring, learning new things, fighting battles (real or metaphorical), winning some, losing some, and sometimes carrying a bunch of baggage a long way.
The major arcana do something similar, but in a more generalized sense since they're not tied to a specific aspect of experience. You start fresh, thinking you're hot stuff. You end up good at some things. You fly too high a few times and get spanked back down. Learn something about caution and humility, discover that sometimes bad stuff just *happens*. Become wiser, pick yourself back up again, and eventually declare "yes, I think I've finally learned whatever lesson I was meant to here" in the final card.
Aside from that, I just love the symbolism and multiple meanings on a lot of the cards. The four of cups, for example:
Thanks for not working, image tags
it's the card that means "dissatisfaction, boredom, daydreaming". It depicts a man sitting by a tree, with a cloud next to him forming a hand holding out a golden cup that he's contemplating. But the card is the *four* of cups; there are three perfectly good cups sitting right in front of him. In the art you have both "He's bored and using his imagination to help alleviate it!" alongside "he's bored but you can see it's actually ingratitude".
Eight of swords is another good one.
Guess these don't work inside hide blocks.
It means "feeling trapped, limited, forced into your lot". It depicts a woman tied up in bandages, blindfolded, barefoot with swords in the ground around her. But the card also means "victim mentality and excuses"; the bandages are actually tied pretty loosely, and the swords haphazardly arranged in a way that doesn't actually cage her in. She could pretty easily shake the bonds off, take the blindfold off, and walk away. The elements of multiple interpretations are really neat there. -
03-13-2023, 02:08 AMKele_StarIts kind of a shame that popular culture in general tends to focus so much on the Face cards. I had no idea the numbered cards had so much meaning to them, and id bet not to many people even know the cups, wands, swords, and coin cards even exist. Thank you for the history lesson^_^!Quote:
Originally Posted by Semirhage
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03-15-2023, 11:36 AMGrimGale
I love SCH's Tactical War-Sage aesthetics. The mortarboard, the glasses, the grimmoire, the quill- I love the concept of Arcanima, the use of written glyphs to "program" aether into living facsimiles, both to create aetherial constructs like the Faeries or dangerous substances.
Scholar exhudes that sense of control, given by deep mastery of both magic and war.
I really wish its aesthetics leaned further into the written word. I love the whole "magic writting" theme it has as a job- The names of the spells in English are a bit lackluster. In french, the skills and spells are all themed around treatises and laws.
FFXI's Scholar really felt like a savant with its use of the two grimmoires that allowed you to "augment" certain aspects of their kit by leaning into damage/debuffing or healing/buffing.
I honestly don't really care about the "fey" aesthetic of the class in FFXIV. I've always felt it was tacked on to mold it into the Summoner/Arcanist side of things. WHM is the job that has a connection with spirits of nature, that is all about the fluttery winds and leaves and flowers. Honestly WHM should have been the one with the access to a summon. -
03-18-2023, 10:30 AMRenathrasPoking in to say - this is actually pretty interesting. Reading the first part had me thinking "Huh, wonder if regular playing cards derived from...oh look, they did!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Semirhage
History and meaning behind things is always interesting to see and learn about.
I appreciate that post, Semirhage. -
03-26-2023, 10:20 AMKele_StarGiven the history of the FF series and its past white mages i 100% agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by GrimGale
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03-26-2023, 10:50 AMRenathrasHm?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele_Star
Just curious, which White Mages were summoners?
I know it happens here and their (Eiko in FF9 was a White Mage [Garnet was a Summoner though, she didn't have high levels of White Magic] or White Caller), and FFX's Yuna are the only two examples I can think of offhand. FF4's Rydia was a Black Caller (Black Mage / Summoner), and I guess Terra from FF6 can be brought up here, but she's more a Summon HERSELF (Esper) and the magic she naturally learns are some White Magic spells and Black Magic, making her a more Red Mage.
I'm trying to think of the White Mages in other games for examples. Rosa and Porom from FF4 are White Mages and not summoners. Aerith from FF7 is a White Mage and not really a summoner (no more than anyone else, anyway). Most of the other games either use the Job system (where White Mage and Summoner are distinct, though there are sometimes upgraded versions like Sage that combine them, though usually along with Black Mage making a sort of Omni-Mage)
It's also kind of confusing because a lot of the games allow a lot of character customization such that the ones that do have characters kind of locked to Jobs (as opposed to allowing them to switch like FF3, FF5, or FFTactics) allow free creation via equipment - FF6 with Magicite, FF7 with Materia, FF10 with the License Board, FF12 with it's License Board - such that it's hard to say those are White Mage traits as opposed to just the natural allowed abilities of all Jobs. Like FF7 Cid is clearly a Dragoon but can use Summon Materia.
So just curious which ones you were thinking of.
To be fair to Scholar, it's not a often used Job in many FF games. -
03-26-2023, 11:16 AMKele_StarYou basically named them all. the point i am making is it makes more sense that whitemages secondary function would be summoning given that its been a core point in many of the games. Its less so with the scholar class given that it appears much less in the series and when it does it does not usually have any relation to summoning (not counting games like ff 3 or 5 where jobs are interchangable.) Its just more of a series tradition than a rule though so dont think about it to hard ^_^ also now that i think about it, baring job based games i dont think a pure summoner exist aside from yuna since if you took her grid away all shed have are summons and cureQuote:
Originally Posted by Renathras
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03-26-2023, 11:50 AMty_taurus
FF I & FFII: Exist before the concept of summons was introduced.
FFIII, FFV, and the Tactics series: Utilize job systems where each character can be assigned 1 specific role. In some of these, a character can equip abilities learned on other jobs, but there are no canon combinations for any characters.
FFVI, FFVII, & FFVIII: Some characters share design elements from traditional jobs, but everyone is capable of learning general magic and summoning, and every character can fulfill whatever role you want them to.
FFXII: The original release shares similarities with VI, VII, and VIII where everyone can learn every general license, and the remaster is more like III, V, and the Tactics series where you assign a specific board to each character. In both versions, any party member can be taught to summon.
FXIII: Does not have anything that even resembles the jobs that the series is known for. Characters are defined by a combination of general RPG roles rather than specific, thematic jobs or classes, but every character has a personal summon.
FF Type-0: A more restrictive take on the VI, VII, and VIII system where magic and summoning is available to anyone, but the list of magic and summons is fairly shallow, and the majority of combat skills are defined by a character's personal, canon job.
FFXI: The other MMO where you can combine two jobs similarly to the III, V, and Tactics series example. There is no "canon" combination, but WHM is generally considered the best sub-job for SMN, though there are other options that offer different advantages, including SMN/NIN interestingly.
FFXV & FFXVI: Doesn't feature a job system, and characters don't quite resemble jobs from the series either. Summoning is exclusive to the protagonist.
This leaves only IV, IX, and X where summons have the opportunity to be crossed with another job canonically. Everything else either lets the player choose, doesn't have a summons or a job system, or everyone can summon, and in X's case, predetermined jobs are canonical, but the player can eventually teach each character everything, though this doesn't tend to happen until very late into the story or until postgame.
In these three, IV features a Summoner/Black Mage, IX features two Summoner/White Mages, and X has a Summoner/White Mage as well. -
03-26-2023, 12:50 PMRenathrasYeah, basically that. Well, mostly. FFX due to the License Board falls closer into the 12 systemQuote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
You can either look at it from the 4/9 (arguably/10) version or the Job System versions. With the Job System versions, Summoner is generally its own thing, as you can choose any other Job you want as a Sub-Job. The 4/9/10 versions the female lead is a Summoner + something so that she can do something when not summoning (summons are rather expensive), and in 9 specifically, there's a second one for story purposes. Also for the first good chunk of 9, Garnet can't summon and Eiko isn't in the party, meaning they had to give Garnet something and Vivi already had the Black Magic covered.
I would point out, though, that there are several other things to look at. FF4 has two White Mages, neither of which is a Summoner. FF2 I think one of the characters is a White Mage base archetype, and she can't summon (obviously). FF1 uses the Job system, just a limited version of it.
I also think it's important to note that even some games that don't STRICTLY have a Job system may have Jobs. FF7, for example, the characters fall into Warrior/Fighter (Cloud), Monk (Tifa), Warrior/Archer (Barret), White Mage (Aerith), Red Mage(?) (Nanaki/Red XIII), Rogue/Thief/Ninja (Yuffie), Dragoon (Cid), Gambler/Corsair (Cait Sith), and a weird take on Beastmaster (Vincent). FF6 had a similar situation, though with lots of overlap, using the character's special abilities, like Gau being the Beastmaster take there, Cyan a SAM, Sabin a Monk, etc. -
03-27-2023, 12:02 AMKele_StarYour post made me feel super nostalgic >//< haha. i will correct my comment above and change "appeared in many games" to "appeared in a few games". still i would argue that it does still appear in combonation with whitemage in the series more then it does with scholar in the series :]Quote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
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03-28-2023, 04:43 AMRenathrasTrue. Also Black Mage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele_Star
Though this is also kind of due to a weird quirk of Final Fantasy games - White Mage is so often the base true Healer Job (FFTactics had Chemist, but WHM was unlocked directly from it and Chemist was a bit more of a utility Job than a Healer outright), and is generally powerful for the role, that they often don't HAVE another direct Healer Job, instead having advanced combo Jobs, like Sage, Magus, Seer, etc that tend to have White Magic + something else. WHM is so effective, there's generally not a second Healer Job necessary.
But in MMOs, people like some options and variety. In FFXIV 1.X, WHM was the only Healer Job, and SCH was only added in 2.0. So SCH doesn't have as much history to draw on in the first place. FF3 Scholars (the first iteration of the Job) were basically RDMs without physical abilities that instead had Scan/Libra type abilities to find enemy weaknesses and make them take more damage. Come to think of it, the FF11 Scholar was also kind of a Red Mage-ish Job (though it had to pick to be one or the other of White Mage/Black Mage at a time...)
Honestly, I see the Faerie itself as a thing unique to Nym itself more than a trait of the Job, but that's just me. I don't think there's any similar system in other FF games. Even the ones mentioned before, FF9 and arguably FF10, the summons used aren't generally defensive in nature. I think Eiko's Carbuncle may be the only one? Debateably Phoenix because of it giving Fulllife to KO'd party members. Garnet's are all attack/damaging, as is Eiko's Fenrir and I think Madine. FFX, all of Yuna's summons deal damage/attack as well.
It is kinda odd they didn't include more healing ones, since there are at least three (Slyph/Faerie [where Eos probably derives from], Unicorn, and Asura, I think?), but oddly, none of the White Mage/Summoner characters in the series history actually use those healing ones. Perhaps they thought it would be redundant...