Narrative Exploration: A Garlemald Expansion

I've been sitting on this for the better part of a year after the first discussion about Endwalker originally being two expansions. Never sure if I wanted to add to the conversation. But I always found the topic about the "cut" Garlemald Expansion as an interesting one. After writing this up and seeing the original discussion, I came to the conclusion that I feel like Yoshida and the writing team made the right choice, even if Endwalker did end up a little awkward as a result.

Making a Garlemald focused expansion seems natural, but given Stormblood you have to be mindful of the themes and zone stories you want to tell. You can't just make it all about the homeland, that's too little to carry an expansion, while at the same time you can't spend a lot of the time in the provinces either because you risk doing similar stories as Stormblood, which would hurt the expansion. So it's a balancing act, people want to see the homeland and so my conclusion is they focused on that. In reality, I think Garlemald can support 3 zones of story/content before you run the risk of repeating themes or stretching your content really thin.

My approach to this was to largely focus on trying to solve a Garlemald expansion rather than rewrite both expansion. I wanted to keep the pieces that they put in place and maybe nudge things around if needed. Some changes had to happen due to pulling out Garlemald and I made a couple of personal tweaks that felt like missed opportunities, because at the end of the day this does amount to fan fiction. But hopefully also a conversation starter.

I would be interested to hear other ideas on how a Garlemald expansion could work as I think it is a fascinating topic to discuss.

Shadowbringers

In order to cleanly line things up for a Garlemald expansion, all of the Zenos related events in the late Shadowbringers 5.0 story and patch story have to be reworked. Fandaniel is completely pushed back in order to give Zenos full agency in his actions and saved for Endwalker.

5.0 Changes

Eldibus never reveals anything to Zenos about Zodiark or Hydaelyn before he flees. This was an odd point since Eldibus would have no fear or motive to actually give Zenos these details.

5.1 Changes

After the conclusion of Zenos fight with Gaius and Estinien, he leaves in search of new power for a rematch with the WoL. Fandaniel doesn’t present himself leaving Zenos to seek more mundane solutions in the meantime.

5.2 Changes

Zenos in his search learns about the Bozja and Zadnor events. Given Zenos eventual move to Reaper, connecting him closer to interests with the Void makes sense. This also brings in one of the few untouch side content threads back into the main story.

5.3 Changes

Zenos arrives in Zadnor finding the destroyed remains of the Diabolos Armament. The Allagan control and use of the Voidsent gives him an idea. He’s got a plan now and hints towards something in Garlemald, this would be the first vague hint about Reaper and his eventual job change.

5.4 Patch Story

The new direction to guide the story to a Garlemald focus story remixes some elements of the original story while rewriting an entirely new direction. Much of this requires putting the Scions into new personal goals that move either A or B plots and return the story to a more world view rather than a tightly focused one.

The patch opens with the Scions returning to their individual duties. Thancred and Urianger have plans to look into the remaining members of the Convocation and remaining black masked Ascians. As explained by Emet, Ascians can only be raised up to their seat by the Unsundered Ascians, which are all gone. So determining their fates and killing the remaining ones would bring closure to the last threads of the Ascians.

G’raha and Y’sthola plan to look into the Unsundered World on the Source. Most of it no longer exists, likely due to the Calamities, but having witnessed what they did on the First, they want to learn more. Given that Zodiark and Hydaelyn remain out there, as known primals, they need to understand them better. Hydaelyn especially, given her long silence. Plus Y'shtola is looking into understanding the Rift and crossing between shards, any ancient knowledge would aid her.

Alisaie and Alphinaud intend to look into the tempering cure seeing as they had success in the First with Halric. This will be a repeat of the events from 5.4 we got.

Before they all depart however, word from the Alliance comes. The civil war in Garlemald has supposedly ended and troop movements have returned to the borders. Additional rumors of securing the rebelling territories put the Empire back in a strong position. The worst of the rumors is that Zenos is now in command, putting the Alliance on edge.

Thancred makes the call to investigate these rumors and gain a clearer understanding of what has happened within Garlemald. With Thancred leaving, Urianger decides to reach out to Gaius instead to exchange information and resume the investigation into the remaining Ascians on the Source. Bringing Gaius back into the main story, allows a resolution to his Ascian hunt and opportunities for expanding his character beyond the Sorrows of Werlyt.

The WoL now is given the choice of who to help out with. This will be like the split quest at the start of expansions, but it is three quests. The full tempering quest line present from the original 5.4 story will be here.

For the Gaius and Urianger quest, new details about Gaius’ Shadowhunter days are revealed via echo letting the player roleplay as Gaius. Afterwards, WoL accompanies them into different zones of the world hunting down rumors. This gives opportunities to learn about remaining unknown Convocation members from Ascians. Given their elusive and now at risk nature, many have gone into hiding. So their hunt eventually reaches a stalling point and the WoL is told to come back once they have more to go on.

G’raha and Y’shtola quest line globe hops around Eorzea using what they know from the First to tie connections of the Unsundered World back to the Source. The first stop is Limsa given that the Tempest matches and they seek out the underwater ruins. If the WoL has a FC and is doing submarine expeditions, there is bonus dialogue to borrow their ship for the journey. If not, they work with the friendly Sahagin tribe from the tribal quests and Limsa to investigate the sea, Cid is occupied with the tempering cure. With nothing found underwater, it’s assumed buried and they look into deep ancient ruins around Eorzea. They investigate the underground city in Gridania of the Duskwights fitting with Rak’tika. Later, they look into the Sil’dahn ruins as well. Each path is a deadend, but new world lore is discovered. The two promise to continue their investigation without the WoL until they have better leads.

The WoL returns to the Rising Stones to be told of a meeting called by the Alliance as war looks to be back on the horizon. At the meeting, intelligence gathered so far by Thancred and the shinobi network confirms the rumors and early reports. Garlemald is united under Zenos and the legions are on the move. However, new strange magitek are being produced. The test firing of a new weapon upon one of the rebelling provinces makes the Ultima Weapon look like a child’s toy. This new weapon will be the replacement for the Lunar Bahamut threat introduced in the original story, but its threat is built up here rather than witnessed and saved for 5.5. Zenos has made no official declaration of renewed hostilities, though the WoL provides their opinion to the leaders about Zenos. The conclusion is that Zenos will be coming and the likely target will be the WoL. The Alliance leaders return to their nations hoping to prepare for a completely different sort of war that they may have no chance of winning.

Post-quest cutscene returns to Zenos. He is having scientists using the knowledge gained from Bojza along with other exploits by the WoL, the Void Ark, Crystal Tower, Ivalice and Weapon Trials to advance the Allagan Void research. The researchers are still needing more about the Void and so Zenos says he knows of a village with close ties to the Void and departs to complete his task.

5.5 and 5.55 Patch Story

With a new war on the horizon, the Alliance leaders ask for the aid of the WoL in training and preparing their soldiers. The WoL travel to Ala Mhigo and reunite with Lyse, Fordola and Arenvald. This brings these characters back into the main story in preparation for the expansion. Outside of the Summoner quest, Fordola and Arenvald’s story remains largely unknown, so like the original patch story, this is also the time to provide new character development and the two’s continuing relationship.

While helping out the training, the WoL is contacted by Urianger with news related to their Ascian hunt. Departing for Gaius and Urianger, the WoL learns from them some evidence to suggest that there is an Ascian making a play. Who the Ascian is remains unknown, but they have a tip and find some black masked Ascians. Evidence that there might have been a Convocation member here at some point seemed clear, but they’ve long since left. There are some stray clues about aether currents, but nothing meaningful to go on. Urianger plans to research the left behind research and share it with Y’shtola and G’raha.

The WoL rushes back to the front with communication that fighting has suddenly broken out. The rest of the Scions try to make it back in time, but the WoL is going on ahead with the war front. This is the new dungeon for the patch with Lyse, Arenvald and Fordola available as trust companions for the dungeon. Another war zone dungeon like the Ghimlyt Dark, instead of advancing the front Zenos’ armies are supported by voidsent and void magitek. The Alliance is unable to hold the line and the WoL is fighting the front Garlean forces as allies retreat to regroup making the dungeon technically run in reverse. The final boss is against a voidsent magitek prototype similar to that of the Diabolos Armament, but unlike standard boss fights, the health bar associated with the fight is attached to the Alliance forces. It is a survive until time runs out with options to disable parts of the boss to reduce damage.

The Alliance is able to retreat thanks to WoL and party, but the prototype unleashes a large beam attack on the Alliance HQ where troops are retreating along with leaders and the Scions. Y’shtola steps in with a barrier along with Alphinaud and Urianger, but it’s not enough and Y’shtola is vaporized in the attack defending escaping soldiers. The prototype remains unstable and threatens to go berserk like the Diabolos Armament, but it is shut down and pulled from the field.

A heavy loss for the Alliance and Scions, the opening conflict has reshaped the war to come. The Garleans have captured territory deep into the Ghimlyt and threaten Ala Mhigo. For the time, the Alliance leaders are rethinking their strategy and requesting aid from the Ironworks on this new threat. The Scions return to the Rising Stones to mourn the loss of Y’shtola and the WoL visits Gridania to tell her sister of the news.

The 5.5 patch ends with Thancred in the Garlean Capital on the trail of new evidence important to learning what Zenos has been doing with the void and how he managed to get the new power. Zenos also finally makes the job change to Reaper and signals the progression of the hunting grounds.

5.55 patch story focuses on fully returning Cid and Nero to the main story after hints in 5.5 and the tempering cure in 5.4. Gaius returns troubled by the new developments of the void weapon reminded of the Weapon trials. Cid and Nero work using their knowledge from the Crystal Tower and Omega to try to find a counter to the void magitek or at least something that can stand up to them. The WoL helps out in minor skirmishes along the war front trying to keep the Garleans at bay and provide support and morale to the Alliance forces.

The aid eventually turns into a big instance fight with the WoL starting off alone saving Allied troops before being joined by Gaius, Fordola and Arenvald. The instance caps off with them pinned down by void magitek until Cid and Nero arrive with the G-Warrior for the WoL to use as Cid and Nero test out their new anti-void weapon. In the end, the battle is won, but the anti-void weapon is less than successful, requiring more work.

This still grants the Alliance the needed morale boost and the Ironworks continue their research. Gaius is troubled by the events with the Empire and Zenos and vows to join the WoL in their hunt to stop Zenos once and for all. Fordola also steps forward wanting to join and see the man that Zenos has become with Arenvald coming along.

Back in Garlemald, Thancred has finally learned Zenos’ secret, but he is detected by Zenos. This is a roleplay duty as Thancred in a survival horror theme, where Zenos is hunting Thancred and you try to escape with the intel. In the end, Thancred is forced to face Zenos and Zenos cuts him down as the WoL hears over the linkpearl Thancred final words interrupted. Zenos makes a clear effort for the WoL to know that it was him that killed Thancred. This is intended to provide the WoL the revenge and motivation to focus down on Zenos. Zenos doesn’t want the WoL distracted by the war and wants them at their most powerful for their reunion.

With Gaius, Fordola and Arenvald joining the Scions temporarily, they replace the tank and dps trust losses with Thancred and Y’shtola gone.

Now at the darkest moment in a while, the WoL has their eyes set on the Empire once more. A way into the Empire is being planned and all they can do is wait.

Note: I killed two Scions for the reason to push the WoL to focus on Zenos. In the Garlemald solo duty, I think Zenos would have killed a Scion had the expansion been about Zenos. It ended up making a great solo duty and interesting plot beat pointless because nothing came of it other than a distraction. Had Zenos killed someone the plot would have been about him now, which wasn’t the point, so since 6.0 now is about him, I felt it was good to kill some Scions for the weight of the situation.

Thancred was picked because Endwalker didn’t really use his character so removing him didn’t hurt anything and his arc was completed in Shadowbringers making for a good time to bow the character out. Y’shtola was picked because she also didn’t take anything away from the narrative of Endwalker and it felt like a good subversion of the Stormblood moment where she really should have died, but didn’t. This time played for real. I didn’t pick them out of any sort of malice for their characters as I quite liked both of them by the time Shadowbringers completed. XIV does too many fake out deaths, death isn’t required, but don’t do fake outs repeatedly so this restores some necessary balance and sense of stakes.

6.0 Expansion Story

The Alliance works to rebuild their line and hold against the Garlemald threat. Lyse and Raubahn lead on the front lines from the western side and Alliance. Hein, Yugiri and the Steppe Au’ra lead the front lines from the eastern side. With the aid of the Ironworks, they retrieve an Imperial airship and sneak into enemy territory. The western front reports void summonings and void magitek breaking through the lines. This is the split quest path for the expansion.

Zone 1 Part 1

Zone 1 is a region in Ivalice, the stolen airship has engine failure and forces a landing in the zone. The local resistance is still active, but deep underground. The story is recruitment and information gathering while Cid fixes the ship. Gaius only knows a little about the region, but acts a little bit as the guide and de facto speaking role for the WoL, like Alphinaud would often do in cutscenes. The WoL past experience in Ivalice leads them to Lente’s Tears reuniting with characters from the 24-man. They learn about the current situation of the Garlean forces and occupation in addition to a little bit of how Zenos has been running the Empire. Despite the conquest, Zenos has a very disinterested approach making it clear his actions are not borne from a want of Imperial conquest, but motivation to spur the WoL to act. His conquest was quick and bloody, which silenced most for now.

With the help of Lente’s Tears, the WoL and company move to secure an Imperial facility to let Cid repair the airship. The victory gives a boost to morale in the resistance as they make plans to organize more. Gaius remains behind to support as the WoL leaves to the western front.

Zone 2 Part 1

Zone 2 is the region north of Ghimlyt Dark. The WoL along with Urianger and the twins push into enemy lines with the help of the improved Ironwork’s anti-void weapon thanks to Nero’s aid. WoL, Nero and company beat back the void summonings and void machines, but spies learn of a factory near the border that is the source of the summonings. They go in alone to investigate and learn that there is a void pact portal like the one in the Crystal Tower, but a smaller scale. The threat is resolved, but reveals a larger void portal deeper in the region that needs to be taken out to end the threat.

Zone 1 Part 2

Storylines merge back and continue in Zone 1. Gaius has a plan to retake the Imperial base present in the region, end the conquest. The main theme of the zone, since Stormblood already explored the occupied theme, is a focus on Gaius and Fordola’s resolve. Both have different opinions and atonements that they’re trying to see and how they view the Empire. This zone gives these two characters the chance to finally start pushing their long running character arcs forward. Nothing will be complete with them by the end, but meaningful progress will have been made. Things end with the liberation of the region and the Princess in hiding being introduced as the new leader.

Zone 3

Zone 3, the repaired airship takes them deeper into Garlemald territory and to some information Thancred left behind to understand what is happening. This is an industrial and research region, the story theme is learning about Garlemald and the people, humanizing them beyond just being conquering warlords. The story line ends in a magitek and allagan looking facility. WoL has their rematch with the perfected void weapon prototype that defeated them back in the 5.5 dungeon. This is the first trial fight for the expansion.

They learn here what Thancred was trying to inform them about, Zenos is trying to create a similar portal to the one that Xande had and go to the Thirteenth and find himself a strong enough power to replace that of Shinryu to battle the WoL. There are hints that the benefactor is well versed in Allagan methods, making Cid think of Amon from the Crystal Tower, even though he’s long since dead.

Zone 2 Part 2

Information found while in the facility lets them understand how to break the pact with the portal. They return to Zone 2 and with the help of the Alliance push into the region. A war ravaged region, no citizens live anymore, it’s all military outposts. The story theme for the zone is the cost of war and military price on the people and land. Showing how far and twisted Zenos is going to get his fight. The portal is shut down and the region is handed over to Alliance control. The Scions with the WoL push deeper into Garlean controlled territory.

Zone 4

Zone 4, Gaius and Cid reunite with the WoL, Nero and Scions in the outskirts of the capital. The Alliance forces and Garlean forces fight in full, the zone utilizes the Bozja gameplay to make the whole field an active warzone the entire time. The story theme of the zone is focused on the horrors of war. Being near to the capital, there are some hints to what Garlean life might have been like, but only subtle bits. The WoL will have the option if they have Grand Company ranks to command their own squad out here, if not it’ll be generic Alliance soldiers. The WoL will meet, learn and see people die driving the horrors of war theme as the push to the capital continues.

This is where Julius and people of the 1st Legion are encountered for the first time. They are enemy combatants. The main threat in the region is the void portals that are allowing more voidsent through. Once the WoL has pushed far enough in, they lead a commando group (Gaius, Fordola, Arenvald with the Scions) behind enemy lines. They take out the void portals, breaking the Garlean defense forcing their retreat. The push into the capital begins.

Zone 5

Zone 5 Garlemald, at the center of the capital a large portal is visible, Zenos at work. The task is to clear out the remaining smaller portals ending the void threat. The story theme for this region is the same as the one from Endwalker, the propaganda, the racism, the fear, everything laid bare to show the Garleans way of life. This is also where Gaius and Fordola conclude their character arcs of the expansion, finding their personal resolve and way forward. With the shut down of one of the portals, Gaius learns of soldiers that want to join them, but are afraid to because of Zenos.

Gaius recruits and reunites the divided Garleans loyal to the homeland and not Zenos. A battle with Julius plays out at the end of which Gaius is able to convince Julius that Zenos must be stopped. The push on the palace brings them face to face with Zenos once more. The WoL, wanting revenge for Thancred and Y’shtola, attacks Zenos. A brief fight ensues, but Zenos can see he’s missing the power necessary for the real contest that he wishes for. He retreats to the top of the tower and enters the portal. The WoL attempts to follow, but a Diabolos class voidsent appears and the second trial begins.

Zone 6

Zone 6, The Thirteenth shard, the WoL chases after Zenos alone as everyone else will become affected by the corruption like Nero did. The zone is different from the World of Darkness and a setup for the 6.1 patch story teases. The story theme of the region is learning about the true state of the Thirteenth and Zenos’ past. The history of Zenos is laid bare and through echo the WoL learns that Zenos is like the WoL, a Sundered ancient. And from a friendly soul in the Thirteenth, the connection between the WoL, Azem and Zenos is revealed. Zenos as an ancient Unsundered person was in the running for the seat of Azem after Venat stepped down. However, they declined the position not wanting to be bound by the duty and responsibility of one of the Fourteen thus passing to WoL to be Azem. In the past, the two helped each other and even worked to try to find a solution to the Final Days, but ultimately failed.

This addition to Zenos is not designed to change his character to be sympathetic, but explain the various elements of Zenos that had been teased and never followed through with. Why did Zenos dream of the Final Days, why is Zenos so uniquely powerful, this provides answers to these and makes the connection between these two. And Zenos becomes a reflection of the WoL, a mirror “what if” had the WoL grown up with a different environment showing how isolating and lonely the strength they have can be.

Caught up to Zenos, the friendly soul is revealed to be the Thirteenth shard of Zenos. This has been his goal the whole time. Like what Ardbert did for the WoL, Zenos does but forcibly merges with his shard. Zenos becomes the WoL’s equal as he wished. Zenos is the final trial fight, just normal 9/14 rejoined Zenos against the WoL. After the fight, the Endwalker instance battle plays out, but more of a brawl roleplay as they are both exhausted of aether. The fight ends with Zenos’ loss, happy with the resolution and the WoL kills him.

WoL returns reporting on Zenos’ end and Gaius is now looking to find someone that can lead the government and people. Post credit tease hints to the benefactor that had been aiding Zenos from the shadows and being pleased with the results.

6.1-6.3 Patch Story

The three patch stories focus on Gaius and his efforts not to be put in charge of the nation, the threats to his life for the death of the Emperor and seeking out a good person to install in the government. It spends more time diving into the civilian cost of the war, their fears of the other peoples, etc.

The main threat is trying to close the pact portal that remains in the palace, which didn’t go away with the defeat of Zenos. The mysterious benefactor remains at large and continues to manipulate scenes from the background. Void threats continue to be an issue with the portal. It concludes with a big x.3 trial fight discovering the pact creature in the Thirteenth.

The post-expansion story ends with Gaius having installed a new leader and shows progress towards improving relations. With the threat of the benefactor, Gaius and Urianger resume their Ascian hunt. The post-scene reveals the benefactor to be an Ascian and making promises to bring about the Final Days.

6.4-6.55 Patch Story

The WoL joins Gaius in the Ascian hunt. The battle with Zenos and the continued reveals of their life as Azem, the WoL sees it as their duty to bring a close to the past. The new motivation for the WoL provides their sense of a character arc to follow through into Endwalker. They are the last of the Ancients and one of the Convocation, they want to see a future for the races of the present and close the chapter on the past.

The twins take up ambassador roles between the tribal races trying to fulfill one of the Y’shtola long standing critiques of the Eorzean city states. Gaius and Fordola act as go-betweens for the Garlean new government to formalize a lasting peace and eventually dissolvement of the conquered territories. G’raha returns to the Crystal Tower with Cid to dig more into the Allagan mystery and Bozja to understand how Zenos got what he did. Estinien is recruited to hunt down the benefactor.

Urianger reports on strange aether readings of currents going wild, rapid growth of flora and fauna. This concludes in the 6.4 in a fight against some mutated creature caused by excessive aether. Post patch cutscene reveals the Ascian is making their move now.

Things come to a head with the WoL and Gaius tracking down some Ascians and slaying them, but not finding the benefactor. Urianger is pulled away to investigate the aether readings. Another void portal appears near the Amali’jaa. The Scions go to their rescue and close the portal. This goes to help push some of the peace talks. Everything ends in the battle at Carteneau and another void portal. Urianger reveals that thanks to his time in the First he realizes that the Source is undergoing an excess of Dark aether causing the growth and wild aether. Where too much Light slows things down, too much Darkness causes spontaneous creation, mutations and cancer-like growth. The cause is unknown, but the benefactor finally appears and introduces themselves as Fandaniel making the claim that they will bring about the Final Days once more.

Labyrinthos and Thavnir Revisions

The point of going to Sharlayan is different as they want access to information on Allagan relics and ancient knowledge discovered. However, the Final Days threat is still occurring and the Dark leaning aether makes things all the more present throughout the world. This means the Forum is still making its secret plans with the ark and has locked off a lot of the Labyrinthos which makes them question what secrets they’re hiding leading to the same events happening.

As tempering isn’t an issue, the issue in Thavnair is a pronounced increase in aetheric activity that’s made flora and fauna go wild, which the Alchemists have been assigned to investigate along with void portals appearing. Otherwise events are very similar outside of the capture and no Tower of Zot, the dungeon is an open environment dealing with the excessive wildlife growth.

New Zone - Amon's Lab/Hermes Lab

After the split concludes, G’raha and Cid have gained some new evidence. They’ve learned the location of Amon’s testing facility. This is the replacement zone for Garlemald. The facility is buried and time has damaged it extensively. Thanks to G’raha and Cid’s work, they’re able to reactivate the Allagan machines and learn about Amon’s research into the void for Xande and the Crystal Tower. Fandaniel appears at this point to taunt the WoL and reveal their identity as Amon.

After the encounter, they find a deep crack in the earth, from the earthquake that destroyed Allag. Following it, they discover a second ruin, which they have seen before. They recognize it as belonging to the Unsundered world. This is a research facility used by Fandaniel/Hermes during his time on the Convocation. Several reports are discovered hinting at things such as Meteion, Dynamis, Elpis and the Final Days. It’s not a complete accounting, but it provides details on the past which aren’t immediately important.

Thavnir Part 2 Revision

Problems on the surface have gotten worse and Fandaniel leaves through a teleporter in his facility to the moon. The WoL chases after and finds Zodiark with Fandaniel in the process of finishing off the rest of the seals. Destroying the last seal before WoL arrives, he explains the point of his plan was to introduce enough dark aspected aether from the Thirteenth into the planet to weaken Hydaelyn such that the seals could easily be shattered. With Zodiark free, he merges with it and the first trial fight. Everything plays out the same.

Final Days are now coming and everything is the same up to how to progress after saving Raz-at-Han. The information they gained from the ancient facility of Fandaniel gives them hope. The WoL returns to find the location of Elpis and as expected it’s in ruins on the Source. However, it’s pointed out that that might not be the case on the First. The WoL returns to the First.

Elpis Revision

The time difference has happened once again and fifteen years have passed since the WoL left. The WoL sees an adult Ryne and Gaia along with a further along recovered First and Empty. With Ryne’s help they use Eden to travel to the location in the former Empty to where Elpis is. The Elpis region is a ruin crashed to the earth, but otherwise familiar. With the guidance of the Elpis flower, they investigate Fandaniel.

The time here is filled with data logs, reports, echo memories and other means to convey Emet, Hythlodaeus, Venat, Fandaniel and Meteion. All the same information gained from the original Elpis is gathered here without time travel. Clearer motivations and decisions post Elpis and during the Final Days are here to completely flesh out the events and why people did what they did.

Labyrinthos and Ultima Thule Revisions

The WoL returns to the Source with the new information and they learn about Sharlayan involvement the same as before. Everything at this point plays out the same up to the Ultima Thule. The scene plays out slightly differently in that Azem’s crystal with Hydaelyn’s power doesn’t have enough power after using it to summon Emet and Hythlodaeus. The WoL is forced to pick who returns and leave two Scions permanently dead. Endsinger battle happens as usual, but without Zenos showing and the WoL just fights normally like Zenos said, WoL doesn’t need the pep talk.

With Endsinger defeated and all of the Ascians killed, the WoL’s task is complete. The story of the Unsundered Ancients is over, it's time for a new tale to begin with the present day races and WoL returns to the Ragnarok. The Scions return home. With the world saved, the Scions disband for real, since with the player picking anyone they want to be dead it’s not possible to build a story that relies on them and not knowing who may or may not be alive still. The Scions go about their personal stories. The WoL hands over Azem’s Crystal to Tataru to have it given to someone worthy (new player character) and dies to return to the star allowing the new races to move to their own future unguided by the past which is now resolved.

The end of 7.0 would involve letting the player basically free fantasia and hit the narrative power reset button. And with the graphical update, this lets players fully explore the new changes if they want to make changes free of charge. And it narratively puts a complete end to the Ascian storyline and brings the story back down to a grounded level with a new WoL that’s no longer Azem. Player-wise, it’s not a deletion of anything, so all progress remains, but narratively the WoL is now a new person with new connections to make. This also makes for a clean fresh start point for new players that may want to jump straight in.

Note: I have two more Scions die here, because like before I’m not a fan of fake out deaths. Before the end of the zone, I knew they were coming back. So this is a compromise so that some can return, but there’s a consequence to the action rather than it being a free pass for everyone. Plus, I think giving the player a real lasting choice at the end of a story will carry so much more weight for people and be remembered that much deeper. Character death isn’t a requirement like Yoshida said for a good story, but I did largely try to keep to what Endwalker was already doing, while making adjustments here or there. In this case, since they wanted the moment, which thematically I think works well for what they’re doing in the narrative. However, just killing and undoing it to make a thematic point seemed a little shallow, so I’ll let the story have its point, but force a consequence on that point.

https://media.tenor.com/39R1pddu7SoA...touch-that.gif

Im sure Aveyond-Dreams will love this.
Hope ya'll have fun.

You forgot to rewrite the Stormblood story line:

Garlemald is winning, the Alliance is in disarray because the Warrior of Light dies

because the Garleans release Black Rose

. The end.

A most perfect ending to a two-expansion MMORPG.

very interesting developments, but 2 points
(sorry, english is not my native language, so if the text seems a bit too simple, mixwritten or confuse, lemme know).

- I would change the necessity of Zenos to kill 2 scions to attract attention from the WoL. I think only 1 could be enough. If you think about it, any Scion killed by anyone would take all our attention at that point of ShB. We can't just "forgot" a fellow Scion that passed away to just remember the killer only after the second victim '-'
It would be like: "oh, damn! This freaky killer Zenos made another victim! By the Gods! Let's deal with him but just only now and not before, shall we?" It would be awkward :3
And, since Y'shtola escaped death twice, it would be too lame if it was her to die. But, about Thancred we could see another picture...

- "reset" our very char to something new like a new timeline seems a bit out of reallity. Like if we are on drugs and never left Wonderland... So, I think this is a bit too much. Like Emet said, there is a lot of things for us to explore in the world yet and I hope Meracydia will be the most beautiful place in Etherys (or Source, as you preffer to call it). I imagine Meracydia like a big forest with waterfalls and a vulcano. A perfect place for dragons isolate themselves from hunters and yet a misterous place from past civilizations and some cities with their own problems, religions and quests for us to do like any city-estate of Eorzea... this is far more interesting for me than Wonderlands ( xD ).

All the "Meanwhile in Garlemald" part in Shadowbringers would've been moved to the Garlemald expansion or at least 5.4.

I kind of disagree with the overall premise of the changes.

I think the primary problems with the lack of a Garlemald expansion involves many of the major Garleans being off-screened or simply not participating in the campaign to liberate the city (when it makes very, VERY little sense for them not to). The idea that nobody in the Alliance thought of inviting the XIVth and VIth Legions to join in the effort to rescue their homeland is rather nonsensical considering the whole spiel of the Grand Company of Eorzea being a unified force composed of every faction in the region, and it's comical that the two Legions aren't even a factor in this. Gaius also choosing to abstain from participating is also questionable and we all know the real reason is because of a self-imposed narrative restriction by the writers because he's tied up in a sidequest chain. Him refusing to participate because of the idea that the Garleans might believe he has ulterior motives due to him being framed for Varis' death makes very little sense, considering Garlemald is already in ruins and none of the surviving Garleans would realistically care about that at this point. Consider that 1) he was actively hunting down Ascians, and would normally leap at the chance to free his people from Fandaniel's plot and slay him to avenge all of his fallen Garlean friends, and 2) he attacked Zenos out of rage for killing Varis, and Zenos is still the reason most of his fellow Garleans are now dead, so he would have a score to settle with him too for that.

The reveal that the Garleans were all part of an Ascian plan, Zenos killing off Varis, and much of Garlemald being off-screened in the aftermath ultimately robbed the entire faction of their agency. The changes you've proposed don't really address any of these problems besides Gaius taking a more active role in the plot, it's mostly 'war against the Empire' flavored in a different way. You bring up that Elidibus shouldn't have told Zenos about the whole Zodiark and Hydaleyn thing, but I interpreted that as Zenos using his powers to extract that information from his own body while trying to find out what Elidibus had been doing with it while he was gone. Moreover, it seems very uncharacteristic for Zenos to be taking an active role in leadership to oppose Eorzea too, even just to stoke the WoL's fury, when it seems more like he was only able to 'govern' Ala Mhigo and Doma because his underlings were really the ones handling that part for him.

I actually did come up with my own outline of what I'd do for a Garlemald expansion a couple days ago in a different thread, in which I would have instead made minimal changes to the overall narrative besides getting Gaius and the two Legions in Eorzea's backyard involved in the effort, bringing Corvos into the equation as a zone because I'm not sure we're going to actually visit the region in any real capacity anymore, fleshing out the Garlean faction in a way that isn't just more 'victims of an Ascian plot', and likely the very unpopular choice of temporarily bringing a certain character back from the dead to resolve a specific lingering abandoned plot thread that should have been answered two expansions ago. Basically filling in a lot of holes.

I'll just copy-paste my notes from the other thread...

Everything would begin the same as it did in Endwalker, up until the WoL and the Scions disable the Tower of Zot and the Grand Company of Eorzea decides to march on Garlemald.

I would have had changed the story afterwards so that the Grand Company of Eorzea sails from Thavanir towards Corvos first, to see what is left of the Garleans there and to try to convince them to join in the effort to rescue Garlemald. Not only that, but Gaius wouldn't be abstaining from participating in the effort either - he would make contact with Nero and Cid, and the three of them would set out to get the survivors of his own XIVth Legion and the VIth Legion in Azys Lla to help in the effort as well. The Grand Company in the meantime would have likely arrived at Corvos in the middle of a three-way conflict between the native Corvosi, the Garlean legion stationed there, and a tower full of tempered soldiers from both sides in the middle of it all.

This would have had several other narrative advantages on the side too:

1) We'd get to see exactly why the Sharlayans modeled Labryinthos after this region. (Although with the proposed changes, maybe Labryinthos would be heavily altered...)
2) At some point, we'd get some backstory about G'raha Tia's childhood before he left for Sharlaya, along with a potential explanation for why his Allagan bloodline was in that region.

I'm not entirely sure how the story would play out here, especially in regards to the Corvosi faction, but I'm thinking there would probably be a major twist in that one of the remaining Ascians wholly against Fandaniel's attempts to recreate the Final Days would be actively helping the people of Corvos resist the influence of the tower there. This Ascian would reach out to the WoL and the Scions, promising a way to meet the leader of the Legion within Corvos.

While the WoL and the Scions are expecting an ambush, they instead learn that she witnessed Emperor Varis being assassinated, and quickly grabbed his soul as a potential backup plan. Only after she learns of Elidibus being defeated on the First, Garlemald's descent into chaos, and Fandaniel's completely unhinged plans does she get the idea of trying to take matters into her own hands. She had grabbed a clone body of Emperor Varis and restored him back to life within Corvos in the the hopes of having him calm the chaos within Corvos. This, she did, right before the Grand Company of Eorzea arrives. (And I say this Ascian is female because there are no female Ascians that have played a major role in the story thus far, Igeyorhm wasn't any different from the mook Ascians we saw very early in the plot and extremely underdeveloped at best.)

Of course, NOBODY would be pleased about this, least of all Varis himself learning of how Zenos has basically screwed everything up, his original body now being host to an Eikon that tempered and destroyed most of Garlemald and is now an active threat to the entire world, how he was saved by an Ascian, and that his Empire is now at the mercy of everyone else. He refuses to accept the idea of asking the Eorzeans for help, and is about to order the entire Legion to ambush the WoL and the Scions until a messenger reports news of Gaius arriving with several members of the XIVth and VIth Legions in an attempt to parley with the Corvosi Legion on behalf of the Grand Company of Eorzea. The former Emperor is clearly glad to hear that Gaius had survived the events after his so-called assassination, and requests for Gaius to arrive in person and explain how Eorzea has treated his people before deciding on any further action.

This isn't exactly a happy reunion. Gaius calls him out for even considering using the Black Rose and the Weapon project, and is quick to point out that Varis himself along with all of the other surviving Legions are now basically exiles with a destroyed homeland as well. Alphinaud also makes it abundantly clear that they won't be marching to rescue Garlemald just to restore Varis back to the throne and that they are only doing this to free the surviving Garleans from the chains that the Ascians had shackled them with - that the fate of Garlemald as a imperialistic nation is but only one part of determining the fate of the world, a callback to how Varis once told Alphinaud and the WoL that the fate of Eorzea mattered little compared to that of the entire world when they first met back in Heavensward.

With that, Varis decides to challenge the WoL, the Scions, and the 'Grand Company's strongest warriors' to a battle to see if they truly have what it takes to march on Garlemald and defeat Zenos, marking the first trial of the expansion. He makes it clear that if the group is unable to best him, then the Legion will resume attempting to retake Corvos and carve out a new nation here, rather than risk everything on an alliance doomed to fall against Zenos. Of course, the WoL wins, and the Legion declares that they will secede control of Corvos to the Corvosi while they focus on their imminent plans to assault and retake Garlemald. But first, they have to deal with the tower in Corvos, which would involve a joint effort between the Corvosi, the 2nd Legion, and the Grand Company of Eorzea.

After that, other Imperials on the side would comment about the VIth Legion's presence. They go into more detail about the Emperor's friendship with Legatus Regula, who was someone that was supposed to be a commoner. They ask the WoL to explain how Regula met his end against the WoL, which elicits a very confused reaction that eventually results in the WoL personally speaking to Varis about the subject. It is then that everyone learns that Emperor Varis was completely unaware of Regula's sacrifice, and Garlemald had been operating under the assumption that the VIth Legion was completely wiped out by the Eorzean Alliance. Varis had been told by some of his intelligence officers that Regula had been slain by the WoL and the Scions (which makes him realize in hindsight that there were always vipers in Garlemald seeking to mislead him), and everyone realizes that Regula's body along with the Imperial soldiers that were supposed to be sending him back had never made it to Garlemald. He doesn't believe the WoL's account of events at first, until the VIth Legion soldiers that are present vouch for every single detail. But the VIth Legion's survival means the Gration still exists - the VIth Legion gets the idea of returning to Azys Lla to find some way to make the Graiton worthy of flight once more, as it should have the firepower to destroy all of the remaining towers that may be locking down all of the other Legions elsewhere.

(This plot thread being addressed during the main story would mandate the completion of the Warring Triad questline. This would also give room for our white-robed survivor of the 13th shard to later participate in the Four Fiends arc much later.)

As for the rest... I haven't thought that far ahead, namely what happens between Corvos and Garlemald (since there would probably have to be at least two more zones). Maybe Fandaniel learns that Varis is alive (or he knew that was always a potential factor since he would have seen the other Ascian escaping with his soul), and decides to do something with Regula's body to really screw with him. There's also the topic of Titus and the 3rd Legion, I'm not sure how they would be involved.

Events within Garlemald itself might play out mostly the same. Varis would be out of the way piloting the Graiton to destroy all the other towers and coordinate the remaining Legions' march on Garlemald from the air, while Gaius, Nero, and Cid establishes contact with said Legions on the ground. Quintus wouldn't get the memo on what's happening because the Tower of Babil would be cutting off all communications at that point, and would likely be immensely shocked at the idea of Varis actually cooperating with the Grand Company of Eorzea, even going as far as to believe that this is some Eorzean trick and that this Varis is an impostor - after all, Quintus would probably be the type of person to believe that the true Varis would not have been hiding in Corvos while his people were suffering in Garlemald. His suicide would still happen before anyone gets a chance to talk him out of it.

Varis would probably arrive soon after with the Graiton, only for the tower to fire off that massive tempering pulse. The WoL would get taken during the chaos as before, but it'd be different in that Varis gets taken first and the WoL gives chase through Fandaniel's portal to rescue him. The WoL arrives to witness Varis and Zenos having a proper duel, in which the WoL gets to see some of Zenos' reaper skills before Zenos ultimately defeats Varis. Zenos thinks to gloat to the WoL about how they were unable to prevent this outcome, and how it may soon plunge the remaining Garleans into despair and undo all of the good will between them and the Eorzean Alliance, to see if it would stoke the WoL's fury. But this proves enough of a distraction for the WoL to get knocked out by Fandaniel. Things after that play out the same as before, with Varis' fate unknown. After the WoL regains control of their body, the rest of the Garleans fully assemble and join in the assault on the Tower of Babil in the hopes that they can rescue Varis.

Of course, Varis is actually dead for real this time, the WoL and other leaders of the assault group would arrive to find out that he's been used to power up Anima even further, especially the idea that the Garleans' prayers for his survival may end up being used against everyone. Anima would be converted to becoming the second trial boss for the expansion.

The rest of the Garlean side of the expansion plays as it did before, with the moon being the final zone, up until Zodiark is defeated.

The story would end on a cliffhanger with the threat of the Final Days looming overhead, with everything involving the Loporrits coming into play during the post-expansion story, along with signs of the Final Days gradually breaking out across the Three Great Continents. The entire world would be forced to unite against the impending threat over the patch cycle, pitching in on research about how the Final Days worked and resisting it in ways unique to each region (like the Azim Steppes for instance would be especially resistant to it because they find purpose in their nomadic conflict-heavy lives), rather than it being something that only the Scions, the Loporrits, and the Sharlayans really knew about. The Endwalker role quests would likely be integrated into the main plot for this purpose. The Gration would return back to Azys Lla, with the VIth Legion soldiers combing through the Allagan records there to see if they can find anything to help against the phenomenon, only to realize that the unusual concentration of aether that formerly made the region invisible appears to be protecting everything there from the Final Days too. Maybe the world would learn of the concept of Dynamis, and figure out that the Garleans would be especially vulnerable to the Final Days phenomenon given all that had happened to them - but maybe they could potentially wield Dynamis more easily too. The seemingly friendly Ascian herself would likely transform into a Blasphemy when asked about the Final Days, accidentally triggering the memory of her past life and pushing her over the edge, triggering the phenomenon in Corvos.

The next expansion involving Elpis and Meteion would likely begin in a different region on the Three Great Continents getting hit really hard by the phenomenon (maybe Dalmasca or Nagaxia?). I honestly haven't thought about this part at all, but I've read plenty about how people would have wanted the Elpis arc to be much more fleshed out than it was.

Keeping the 2 expansion split but flipping the order would work for me. So Endwalker still finishes the Hydaelyn arc, but Garlemald is not destroyed and becomes the focus of the following expansion. The Garlean expansion could've included other Ilsabard territories, Corvos and Ivalician-inspired locations Valnain and Lea Monde.

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Originally Posted by Eytha

In order to cleanly line things up for a Garlemald expansion, all of the Zenos related events in the late Shadowbringers 5.0 story and patch story have to be reworked.

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We still have dreadful ARR story, retcons about even the most important story elements and bad first player experience amongst other things, and you want to rewrite a story?

But anyways. I hope we won't get more unnecessary empire-related content, and definitely not a empire-related expansion. 2.0 was all about empire (I think, it was so bad I barely remember), and it is by far the most garbage one, even if you take into account only the story. I personally find empire the most boring faction any work of fiction could come up with. Up until 1/3rd of EW, we barely knew anything about them, it was just one sided, "evil for the sake of being evil" faction with nothing interesting going on. Now we at least know why they're bad and evil, but they're still uninteresting and lame. Expansion centered around empire is deal breaker for me.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

We still have dreadful ARR story, retcons about even the most important story elements and bad first player experience amongst other things, and you want to rewrite a story?

But anyways. I hope we won't get more unnecessary empire-related content, and definitely not a empire-related expansion. 2.0 was all about empire (I think, it was so bad I barely remember), and it is by far the most garbage one, even if you take into account only the story. I personally find empire the most boring faction any work of fiction could come up with. Up until 1/3rd of EW, we barely knew anything about them, it was just one sided, "evil for the sake of being evil" faction with nothing interesting going on. Now we at least know why they're bad and evil, but they're still uninteresting and lame. Expansion centered around empire is deal breaker for me.

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The hilarious thing is, everyone said the exact same thing about the Ascians until Shadowbringers came around, and the writers have since admitted that they came up with the idea to retcon Garlemald into being an Ascian tool, by creating Emet-Selch and retconning Solus as one of his identities. Seriously, remember what the Ascians did before Emet-Selch's sudden introduction into the plot. Do you remember anything? Exactly.

You can tell which people on these forums joined the game very late and/or have no capacity for narrative analysis.

Given the context and flow of Endwalker, and the buildup to that expansion in Shadowbringers, there was no way we were going to march into Garlemald as conquerors.

Given the nature and declared goal of Fandaniel, there was no way any nation, including the Garleans, was going to be left untouched and untempered.

What part of Varis's "parlay" with the Eorzean leadership led anyone to believe it would be that simple?

What we got was the logical resolution of those towers popping up everywhere. This wasn't a Garlean invention to take over the world. This was Fandaniel preparing for the End of the World.

The "what ifs" and "what needs to happen to make those what ifs true" goes back well before A Realm Reborn. To think that things could be retconn'd by not-so-subtly redirecting Shadowbringers towards that end would have made for a rather blah expansion.

I'll make it even easier for the retconn: Zenos dies in Stormblood. Period. No need for grand themes. Varis is still alive and has purpose. Black Rose is utilized during the Garlemald expansion that follows, since we do not go to the First. We die when Light floods the Source. The end.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Given the context and flow of Endwalker, and the buildup to that expansion in Shadowbringers, there was no way we were going to march into Garlemald as conquerors.

Given the nature and declared goal of Fandaniel, there was no way any nation, including the Garleans, was going to be left untouched and untempered.

What part of Varis's "parlay" with the Eorzean leadership led anyone to believe it would be that simple?

What we got was the logical resolution of those towers popping up everywhere. This wasn't a Garlean invention to take over the world. This was Fandaniel preparing for the End of the World.

The "what ifs" and "what needs to happen to make those what ifs true" goes back well before A Realm Reborn. To think that things could be retconn'd by not-so-subtly redirecting Shadowbringers towards that end would have made for a rather blah expansion.

I'll make it even easier for the retconn: Zenos dies in Stormblood. Period. No need for grand themes. Varis is still alive and has purpose. Black Rose is utilized during the Garlemald expansion that follows, since we do not go to the First. We die when Light floods the Source. The end.

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Yeah, this is basically it. It's why I disagree with a lot of the OP's proposed changes.

I feel like the only real problem with the lack of a Garlemald expansion is just how abrupt our journey there ended up being, a lot of suspension of disbelief for us going there without even thinking of bringing some of the major Garleans in Eorzea along or making contact with one of the other remaining Legions (it feels extremely out of character for Gaius to not tag along), and even worse, that the story just continues to off-screen them after the fact (with details in the final role quest basically giving the writers a potential out for us to never even visit Corvos if plans don't pan out in that direction). It's like they completely ceased to exist as an actual faction the moment Emet-Selch was introduced and Zenos came back from the dead.

There should have at least been an extra zone before going there, where we try to make contact with at least one of the other Legions.

Of course, none of this would be a problem if there's an actual follow-up in the story that actually ties everything up, but instead the topic of the day has immediately shifted to the 13th shard. Us going back in 6.3 for a brief time doesn't really count because things are still more or less the same up there, though the twins at least acknowledge that the situation entirely depends on whether the other nations care to continue supporting their efforts. We'll probably have to wait until 6.5 to see if anything will be done at all (or if we immediately screw off to another shard or sail across the seas instead), since 6.4 is likely going to focus entirely on concluding the 13th shard arc.

I wonder if a Garlemald expansion would have ended up feeling a bit derivative and samey after Stormblood.

I do feel things could have been expounded upon a bit but I also think they have a good place to start from here. Instead of exploring and understanding the Empire, we could delve into the roots of the Garleans and learn who they really are. I'd love to see some things going back to Goug. Like why can't they use aether? Was it always that way or did something happen way back in Goug? It doesn't seem to be the conflict that created Ridorana since IIRC they were using tech before that. I feel like there's a lot of rich story SE could give us from where things currently are that would be much better than what may have felt like a rehash of Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Instead of exploring and understanding the Empire, we could delve into the roots of the Garleans and learn who they really are.

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Yeah that's the kind of future for the game that I was imagining when we were still in 2.x/3.x patches. In some future expansion we would rid Garlemald of its tyrants / dark influence, new neutral leadership is installed and we then get to explore the city safely and learn Garlean culture. It would've been something like Archadia, the seat of FF XII's empire, with esoteric technologies that aren't found anywhere else.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

The hilarious thing is, everyone said the exact same thing about the Ascians until Shadowbringers came around, and the writers have since admitted that they came up with the idea to retcon Garlemald into being an Ascian tool, by creating Emet-Selch and retconning Solus as one of his identities. Seriously, remember what the Ascians did before Emet-Selch's sudden introduction into the plot. Do you remember anything? Exactly.

You can tell which people on these forums joined the game very late and/or have no capacity for narrative analysis.

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So you propose that writers start throwing random elements into story and hope that Ishikawa will manage to salvage it once again ? Yes, it was good call to direct ShB story that way even though it caused serious retcons, but that doesn't mean they should rely on it. If they have some high caliber story involving empire then so be it, but if not, stop investing into garlemald which has nothing more to offer.

They could have been an interesting ally had they survived and reformed in a post-ascian age. The magitek industrial city capable of manufacturing titanic warships. Garlond Ironworks could have moved into Cid's homeland and made use of the resources there. Actually it could've become a democracy and ended up with Cid as leader of the city-state by popular vote.

This all leads to us needing to take a huge Agrias-class airship into battle against the Giant of Babil, an FF IV reference that was maybe too expensive for Endwalker. Thousands of dragons join the fight, reminiscent of the Battle of Silvertear Lake except they're fighting alongside the Garlean vessel this time rather than against it. I like to dream.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

So you propose that writers start throwing random elements into story and hope that Ishikawa will manage to salvage it once again ? Yes, it was good call to direct ShB story that way even though it caused serious retcons, but that doesn't mean they should rely on it. If they have some high caliber story involving empire then so be it, but if not, stop investing into garlemald which has nothing more to offer.

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I am absolutely in agreement that retcons are not to be relied upon.

My grievances lie with the idea that the Garlemald half of the story basically got narratively sacrificed to save the writing for the Ascian half of the story, by retconning that faction so that they were always part of the Ascian plot all along. I disagree that this was ever necessary. Sure, it gave us some memorable moments, but it may have robbed us of so much more in the long term. And as a consequence, you now have people pretending that the Garlemald half of the story was never worth anything all along, to the point where it feels like the vast majority of the community are outright pressuring the devs to send us the hell away from the Three Great Continents just because 'new arc means 100% fresh start' and 'Garlemald stuff was always the worst part of the game' (where, again, people said the exact same thing about the Ascian half of the story pre-ShB, pretending this wasn't the case is some crazy-ass revisionist history - after all, prior to the release of ShB, a lot of people were speaking of Shadowbringers as if it would be little more than a filler arc because it was taking us to the First shard instead of Garlemald, which likely prompted the devs to include Emet-Selch dropping that stinger line about Hydaleyn and Zodiark being the eldest of primals in that one trailer, in order to dispel that sentiment entire months before ShB release).

I don't particularly care about the overall quality of the game's various plots, my true investment in this game is how cohesive and wide-ranging the game's lore is as a complete package. As such, the prospect that the Garlemald arc just got off-screened and worse, potentially abandoned after the fact without any actual follow-up seriously bothers me on principle alone. If the plot seriously moves forward without addressing that elephant in the room, half the cast starts unintentionally looking like massive hypocrites, considering all the stuff about unity, peace, and forgiveness among the all of the factions before. You seem okay with this prospect, since this is the advice you're offering us...

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Originally Posted by Deo14

stop investing into garlemald which has nothing more to offer.

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But leaving such a major thread hanging in the game's overall world structure is a massive blemish that flies in the face of everyone unironically claiming that this game is a masterclass in video game writing. I'm not saying that the writing is bad like a certain few contrarians in other threads, but I feel like the overall state of the fanbase since ShB release has gotten so rabid as to willfully blind themselves, and aren't doing the game any favors by overselling it. We've got to be better.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

But leaving such a major thread hanging in the game's overall world structure is a massive blemish that flies in the face of everyone unironically claiming that this game is a masterclass in video game writing. I'm not saying that the writing is bad like a certain few contrarians in other threads, but I feel like the overall state of the fanbase since ShB release has gotten so rabid as to willfully blind themselves, and aren't doing the game any favors by overselling it. We've got to be better.

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Maybe the backstory is the masterclass, but everything the WoL witnesses in the here and now is going to make a mess of that nice lore we had. That took me years to work out. It's the lore history that I love, not the hero's journey.

The world-building was so good and it makes sense until we come along and radically change everything as a regular habit. Having huge historic events every expansion as a requirement to keep the MSQ exciting just means the story will lose credibility. There's no way it can be cohesive with this structure and tempo. Too much stuff with huge implications gets conveniently crammed into this narrow slice of time we are experiencing.

They're basically telling a single-player FF story inside an MMO, but those things usually end when you save the planet and they don't tend to have sequels. Here we get sequel after sequel with the same characters, routinely redirecting the fate of the star like a superhero squad. Light the way!

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

My grievances lie with the idea that the Garlemald half of the story basically got narratively sacrificed to save the writing for the Ascian half of the story, by retconning that faction so that they were always part of the Ascian plot all along. I disagree that this was ever necessary.

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I don't necessarily agree that Garlemald was "sacrificed" for the Ascians and if anything, it fixed a few problems that have been present in the game since 1.0.

The explanation that Garlemald was an Asican plot makes perfect sense when looking back at the story because in the beginning you had Solus making whacked out ideas like agreeing to nuke Eorzea by bringing down a whole moon. Then in ARR, we heard about how his indecision to name an heir was causing political turmoil and was the reason why the Garleans weren't reacting to anything and Eorzea had time to gather its forces together. Then later either in post-ARR or in HW we learned about the civil war that turmoil led to. ARR also established that the Garleans were working with the Ascians and that the recent Calamity caused by the Garleans was to the Ascians advantage so them being connected was never a stretch.


Ultimately, the main issue that introducing the Garleans caused to the game's narrative since 1.0 is that they are way too powerful. It would be one thing if this were FFXII where both sides had military airships but that's not the case and Eorzea is completely outgunned.

In a setting where the rest of the world is in its knights and sorcery phase, shooting arrows at each other, the Garleans have magitek, machine guns, tanks, siege robots, and gigantic airships the size of a small city. Their only "weakness" is that they can't use magic but that weakness doesn't feel as strong when the so-called rarity of ceruleum is never really a problem. The only reason Eorzea ever stood a chance is because of deus ex machina like a moon falling and hatching a dragon god or a random adventurer who happened to be born at the right time who has part of the soul of an Ancient of their highest order and is blessed by the most powerful being on the planet. They're also thwarted by their own acts of comic book villain ineptitude like killing their own soldiers or allowing rebellions to keep growing so they can fight stronger enemies.

Unless Garlemald was defeated by another deus ex machina the writers brought out of nowhere, it was always destined to fall by its own hand instead of a conquering Eorzean army. Considering we only went to Garlemald to stop a greater threat to the world, there would have been no reason at all for Eorzea to go there to conquer them anyway. Ala Mhigo's liberation was forced by Ilberd's false flag operation, and Doma's as a gambit to help Ala Mhigo's liberation. Eorzea would stand no chance fighting against Garlemald on their home turf with their sci-fi levels of military equipment. The Ghimlyt Dark dungeon and Bozja zones are confusing when you think about how one side has paratroopers and mecha and the other has "a bunch of heroes who sword good". Both were still a struggle and neither was against the full might of multiple legions defending their home.


But there's been past precedence for Garlemald's worst enemy being themselves and that's exactly what we got. Eorzea and by extension, the WoL, get to roll in with their hands mostly clean of the actual fall of the empire and not as conquerors so that eases things a bit for the narrative to move on with us as helpers and to allow us to care for the remnants of Garlemald instead of going full vengeance.

This all knocks out giving players something of satisfaction after a decade of fighting the empire, a path forward for players rehabilitating their own images of the Garlean people in a way that makes us feel bad for them, ends any chance of them being a problem in the future so that the writers can make something new completely of their own with no ties to the old game, and since this is an MMO there's now a reason for there to be enemies walking around in a Garlemald zone.

The solution isn't perfect. I would've liked an Archades model where Garlemald is at least an endgame hub not readily accessible until near game completion like Eulmore was but that would've also meant throwing away Thavnir/Radz-at-Han and making it more trouble to figure out why we could walk around there so I can somewhat see how they went with this choice.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

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I can't blame you for wanting to do real empire a justice, but what do you realistically think that Garleans can offer? They do some experiments, use modern age technology and that's about it. We've already even seen their capital. At best, story could revolve around ceruleum, aether or yet another ultimate machine or what not. If they end up as allies, we would need to spend significant portion of the story being Alliance's errand boy in their diplomatic politics, and if they end up as enemies once again, we fight yet another ultimate weapon. Which is why I think it's better to put their story to a side and give new factions and new stories a chance.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

I can't blame you for wanting to do real empire a justice, but what do you realistically think that Garleans can offer? They do some experiments, use modern age technology and that's about it. We've already even seen their capital. At best, story could revolve around ceruleum, aether or yet another ultimate machine or what not. If they end up as allies, we would need to spend significant portion of the story being Alliance's errand boy in their diplomatic politics, and if they end up as enemies once again, we fight yet another ultimate weapon. Which is why I think it's better to put their story to a side and give new factions and new stories a chance.

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You are clearly not reading my posts.

The Garlean Empire is done. I am not arguing otherwise. While I am unhappy with how rushed their downfall was, I also fully recognize that all of this could be salvaged and might actually get turned into something much better for the game's overall narrative if we got a proper follow-up on the fate of the Garlean people, so it doesn't look like damn near everyone in that faction just got off-screened with the narrative calling it a day after that. Remember that at the start of Endwalker, the game was constantly hammering it into our heads that we were going to Garlemald to rescue the people because they've been manipulated throughout history. We did save them from certain death, but what comes next? We did see Ishgard ending their isolation, and we saw Ala Mhigo and Doma rebuild. It's insanely weird to me that people are just arbitrarily deciding that the Garleans have nothing else to contribute to the story. If we seriously just go off across the seas or onto another shard next expansion without any substantial follow-up, it's going to leave a highly noticeable hole in the overall narrative that people are going to rightfully keep bringing up for years. Especially since it'd send a problematic message that's highly contradictory to the game's overall themes, that it's okay for everyone to display immense apathy at the current situation and let them all suffer out of sight just because the (now dead) leadership went on a massive power trip.

(Admittedly, it could actually make for something very interesting if the story is actually angling itself to address this later - Alphinaud in the latest patch did mention something to the effect that their efforts to help the survivors in Garlemald is currently dependent on support from the neighboring nations, implying that said charity might end up drying up later.)

I dunno, I'm mostly just raising the alarm now because I've seen how reactionary the devs can be to the whims of the fanbase, and a huge chunk of the fanbase seems to be outright demanding that we move on to something completely new ASAP. I, for one, would much, MUCH rather go to Corvos and fully explore the Three Great Continents first before going anywhere else, though this might piss off a lot of people who want to go to the New World especially. But I'd much rather the game shore up its lore and world building first, instead of rushing us in entirely different directions in ways that can't be walked back.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

I dunno, I'm mostly just raising the alarm now because I've seen how reactionary the devs can be to the whims of the fanbase, and a huge chunk of the fanbase seems to be outright demanding that we move on to something completely new ASAP. I, for one, would much, MUCH rather go to Corvos and fully explore the Three Great Continents first before going anywhere else, though this might piss off a lot of people who want to go to the New World especially. But I'd much rather the game shore up its lore and world building first, instead of rushing us in entirely different directions in ways that can't be walked back.

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I don't think that it's as much the playerbase than it is Yoshi-P who wants to move onto something completely new. The story he inherited is over and done and now he has the ability to do something else so I'm sure he'd take a fresh start over the leftovers of the previous story.

Either way, 7.0's story is already written so "raising the alarm" now isn't going to get anywhere.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

The Garlean Empire is done. I am not arguing otherwise. While I am unhappy with how rushed their downfall was, I also fully recognize that all of this could be salvaged and might actually get turned into something much better for the game's overall narrative if we got a proper follow-up on the fate of the Garlean people, so it doesn't look like damn near everyone in that faction just got off-screened with the narrative calling it a day after that. Remember that at the start of Endwalker, the game was constantly hammering it into our heads that we were going to Garlemald to rescue the people because they've been manipulated throughout history. We did save them from certain death, but what comes next? We did see Ishgard ending their isolation, and we saw Ala Mhigo and Doma rebuild. It's insanely weird to me that people are just arbitrarily deciding that the Garleans have nothing else to contribute to the story. If we seriously just go off across the seas or onto another shard next expansion without any substantial follow-up, it's going to leave a highly noticeable hole in the overall narrative that people are going to rightfully keep bringing up for years. Especially since it'd send a problematic message that's highly contradictory to the game's overall themes, that it's okay for everyone to display immense apathy at the current situation and let them all suffer out of sight just because the (now dead) leadership went on a massive power trip.

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That sounds like side content. What do you want the story to be? We, the good old philanthropic Alliance will once again help the poor faction get back on their feet?. Sure, it makes sense, but it's not really some juicy content deserving to be part of main story, and definitely not whole expansion. IMO Garlean restoration which is similar to Ishgard restoration makes most sense. They have modern technology, so there's potential for some cool DoH/DoL interactions and building brand new capital seems most logical. If they ended up with better relations with Alliance, they could even move to more habitable area and just make transport ceruleum from old place and so on. Unfortunately, this would make most sense to be side content for 6.X patches, doing this in 7.X is probably too late.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

(Admittedly, it could actually make for something very interesting if the story is actually angling itself to address this later - Alphinaud in the latest patch did mention something to the effect that their efforts to help the survivors in Garlemald is currently dependent on support from the neighboring nations, implying that said charity might end up drying up later.)

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Is this really interesting? This just sounds like in-game politics. All factions hate Garleans because they were evil in the past -> they don't want to help them -> we, the legendary Errand Boys of the Light, will show them that they're good now -> they help them and Full House theme plays.

Hmm, I dug a bit further and found an interview from a year and a half ago that seems to restore some hope. People generally think the Bozja storyline got abandoned due to internal drama with Matsuno along with running out of time, but it looks more like there's going to be an actual follow-up planned for later. Matsuno saying that the storyline got put on indefinite hold could have been a case of Endwalker accelerating the story to the point where it's better to off-screen the actual war part + NDA stuff stopping him from revealing more that also had details lost in translation.

https://old.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...no_and_yoship/

On second thought, I'm not sure we're actually going across the seas anymore. The 13th shard storyline is getting the 'going to another shard' part out of the way for the time being, and there's been absolutely nothing pulling us in the direction of sailing overseas other than an assumption that we're going to just because we're at the end of the first major story arc. Given that 6.4 is going to be focused on ending the 13th shard story, and that we'll likely just have 1-2 patches remaining in the Endwalker series (we're most likely going to get a 6.6 patch comprised of more plot setup and technical things like the graphical update, because the next expansion is most likely Spring/Summer 2024 and there's no way in hell they're going to make us wait a whole ~8-9 months after the estimated release window of 6.5), it's unreasonable to expect an entire new area before the next expansion.

So we're probably going to at least start the next expansion uncovering that cloud cover in the center of our current world map.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

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This literally has nothing to do with the thread of more for your signature quote.

Yes the bard is singing cause the first "customer" is the Bard themselves. If you don't like your own singing then you would never do it for others.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

Hmm, I dug a bit further and found an interview from a year and a half ago that seems to restore some hope. People generally think the Bozja storyline got abandoned due to internal drama with Matsuno along with running out of time, but it looks more like there's going to be an actual follow-up planned for later. Matsuno saying that the storyline got put on indefinite hold could have been a case of Endwalker accelerating the story to the point where it's better to off-screen the actual war part + NDA stuff stopping him from revealing more that also had details lost in translation.

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Yeah, the thing with Bozja is that right now the resolution is all in the Field Notes. And even then, the Field Notes just end with "to be continued".

When? lmao

With Matsuno gone, they either will
a) respect the writing and try to wrap up the really shoddy "tell don't show" stories they've been giving us,
b) do more of the same,
c) turn it into disneyland like they've been doing on so many other aspects (or just repeat them ignoring how Bozja's heroes all died and were turned into brainwashed monsters who force-fused with eachother at the very end despite us having a cure for Tempering*).
or d) they just won't. They just will look at that plotline and go "not our problem".

Yoshida has said that they intended for the story to wrap up in the future in Dalmasca, just not right now in 6.0. Which is fine. But that's assuming they really will pick it up, and whether they'll be able to deal witht the mess.


*possibly what's more insulting is that you specifically need to beat 6.3 and cure Ga Bu before unlocking Delubrum Reginae. The cure is even mentioned by Mikoto. And then they just... don't. And then they're turned into monsters out of nowhere. And then no one even stops to mourn or realize the Blades are all dead save for one Red Mage?? Who wrote this crap.
If we're getting more of this storyline, please start writing it properly and stop skipping details, SE, I beg of you.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

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As the odd one out who really enjoyed collecting and reading through the Field Record entries, I prefer it when stories offer up references in passing that come to fruition years later. Take chocobo plume colour as an example. The various fruits that we give our chocobo companions reference areas that we hadn't seen back in ARR. You get a little entry referencing the Valfruit and the Cieldalaes Pineapple back around 2014. But we only saw the Isle of Val circa 2018 and we're only really now exploring the Cieldalaes proper. We haven't even seen Mamook yet.

There are a ton of little references that come up in item descriptions, minions, Triple Triad cards, as well as the Bozja entries that are similarly intriguing. And instant gratification aside, it's a lot more satisfying than just being given all the information up front and being dropped into the area.

What's the story with the Church of Locus and the Sect of Germonique? Is Locus a reference to Locus Amoenus, also known as Corvos? Is there a connection between Ultima's auracite, brought into the IVth Legion by Gilbrisbert, and the auracite responsible for the downfall of the Thirteenth? Do the Lucavi have a connection to the Void, and are their summoning rituals functionally analogous to Reaper arts? I don't need the answers to these things right now, nor do I expect anything to ever come of them. But it's immensely satisfying when you've had this reference planted in your head for a few expansions for it to suddenly come to fruition when you least expect it. I love a delayed payoff.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

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And as someone who also loves doing that and even loved the fact that it's a replica of my favourite hobby in FF12, the Second Bestiary Entries, I can tell you that there's a difference between that and what Bozja did.

I'm spoilering this because it's LONG.

What you're describing is stuff that adds onto the lore. Snippets of lore that let you in on "further stuff", such as who the Blades are, moments of their lives, mentioning the events of Landis and its downfall. This is reminiscent of stuff like Dragon Age with the codex entries that expand on the world. Same as the FF12 Aletap Rumors and stuff like that, where they give you a lot more information that you can read and piece together to further understand the world you're in. More than just having to experience it hands-on, it gives you a feel that there's more to the world outside of it. FF Tactics technically did it first, but FF12 was the one who took it to a new level. Each monster you killed gave you the Bestiary entry for the mob alone, but kill enough of them and you unlock further pages which expand on so many things. Characters, Regions, Ages, even items! And the text on the bestiary entries was so much more than just your average Bestiary entry where it just lists the enemy, says the obvious thing about them, and then moves on.

I agree with you. One of the things that drew me into this game was how similar to FF12 it originally was. Not just in the politics-heavy plot, but also in the way those items were treated. Food has descriptions. Triple Triad cards give you insight on things like a miniature bestiary. It makes the world feel thought out. That there's more to it than just what we see. And speaking of "what we see", Sightseeing Log!! Like, come on, if you want any bundle of entries like that which describe the world around you, the Sightseeing Log explains to you all the different nooks and crannies you can explore. That's some good shit right there. And it's clear that the Field Records are trying to capture that feeling too. Especially because visually they're meant to look like FF12's Bestiary, and the whole "second page" thing is almost a shout-out to that.

I didn't finish collecting the Bozjan Field Records. I'm missing Lyon's, and I'm frankly tearing my hair out because I do not want to duel him <_>; But I have read the story online. Because I'm stupid and I became emotionally attached to Bozja. Dangerously so.

Bozja on its own is already pretty weak. Let's count the story points:
- All of the Ivalice Raids stuff that came prior to that
- Bozja Incident
- Memories
- The Blades
- The weapons that we were trying to reobtain initially, even having to dive into Cid's memory of the Bozja Incident to figure out where they were last seen
- The Chaste system and its impact even in a Garlean-ruled country
- Queen Gunnhildr and the betrayal/cover-up
- Diablo Armament
- The Beastmasters
- A cult seeking to revive Ultima

There's A LOT. And here's the thing. In ARR, you had different questlines and FATEs exploring similarly spread out story points. The Corpse Brigade doesn't really have that big a foothold in the MSQ, nor do the Lambs of Dalamud. If they show up, it's just for one minute and then off they go. But they're explored in further detail in the quests. There's nothing of the sort in Bozja. You have some FATEs that show you some stuff but then there's no further elaboration. Just "Oh, by the way, this is a thing".
The Blades die, and there's zero fanfarre. I'd expect the vaunted heroes of the resistance effort to have at least some major impact, but no, we just frown and move on.
The actual weapons are gone for the majority of the story until the end where Sicinius shows up with them and gives them to Gabranth.
Diablo Armament comes out of literally nowhere.

What I like about the Field Notes is that they do at least expand a little on the impact some stuff had. It's clear from reading them that guys like Xeven, Blaz and Isolde were important. That they were cared about. But we don't see that being reflected in the story.
What I like about the Field Notes is how they expand on different regions of Bozja. More than just the Southern Front, the beach of Gangos and the blasted heath that's Zadnor, we know of Dirbenc, the port city of Martrvje, the shrine at Zetina's Grace which taught martial arts. Zero mention past Bozja, which feels now that we'll never get to explore.
What I like about the Field Notes is how they explain the characters far more than what we see on-screen. Bajsaljen's decision to make a Garlean-style constitution makes sense when you find out about what he used to work as before the Bozja Incident. He benefitted from Garlean rule, and he found things he never would have otherwise.
What I like about the Field Notes is how they give due justice to my favourite character in the entirety of the plotline: Dabog Invisch. For those who don't read it, you find out who he is loosely in a few FATEs in Zadnor, though you encounter "him" several times in the Southern Front.

But what I dislike is the revelations in those Field Notes.
Turns out Bozja's story didn't end there. The motivations of the primary villain of the whole Ivalice-Bozja storyline is detailed in Field Notes. The fates after Dalriada of almost all the antagonists is detailed in Field Notes. And the fact the story goes on without a cutscene isn't normal for a videogame that's been reliant on those to convey really important information. Where Gabranth dies, but Sicinius does to unsuspecting Hyurs what he did to Dabog: disfigure them to look like Noah van Gabranth and upload his memories into them, with Lyon staging his death and Pagaga being out there as well. This is information that should have been made clearer: that the story will go on. This isn't them expanding on the worldbuilding and adding colour to what they couldn't show us. This is them shoving the ending of the game into a novellization. That's not what the Field Notes, Bestiary entries, Analects, Codex entries, whatever you call them... that's not what they're for!

...so really, you're talking to a kindred soul in enjoying collecting and reading lore-heavy entries like that. You're not the odd one out, Lyth. I am one too. I just feel like there's a major difference between what was achieved and what could have been done that ended up being detrimental to the content. You didn't get a delayed payoff. What you got was the conclusion of the story written down elsewhere for you. Like a DLC ending that you needed to purchase to properly finish the story. That isn't a good execution of this concept.

To me, delayed payoff is what you get when you establish things that will be expanded upon in the future. Mentioning the cult to Ultima in FATEs implies something odd is up, and that might be resolved later. The Gabranth/Lyon/Sicinius thing was not that. At all.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

This literally has nothing to do with the thread of more for your signature quote.

Yes the bard is singing cause the first "customer" is the Bard themselves. If you don't like your own singing then you would never do it for others.

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1) Follow the conversation. It does have to do with the thread because the topic has shifted towards the possibility of the Garlemald stuff being addressed later in a sort of epilogue, when most people were running under the impression that the Bozja storyline was completely abandoned. It's likely that any Garlemald epilogue will partly tie into any follow-up to the Bozja storyline as well.

2) Why the hell are you even barging into this thread talking about a signature? Is this some joke attempt at a gotcha? Are you even aware this forum has a signature function? I've had mine for like 5 years and haven't bothered to make any changes to it. It's supposed to be a play on the 'if a tree falls in the forest' saying. God damn the average quality of posters in this forum has really fallen in recent years.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

It's likely that any Garlemald epilogue will likely tie into any follow-up to the Bozja storyline as well.

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I'm pretty sure this is why Yoshida even wanted to wait until after 6.0 to make any Dalmasca updates. Because they're gonna try and wrap up Garlemald itself and then tackle the rogue factions.

I just personally would rather not have the resolution to Bozja proper on the Field Notes -._.- but c'est la vie.

Question is, with Matsuno gone, which direction will they take?

Though that I think is beyond the purview of this thread. It's been long derailed by Bozja talk x_x; uhh... what was this thread about exactly? Garlemald re-writing, or in what ways will the Garlemald story continue?

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Question is, with Matsuno gone, which direction will they take?

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It's worth mentioning that Matsuno is not actually gone, he is simply pursuing his own projects for the time being. He was working on Tactics Ogre Reborn before, and now all evidence points towards him working on the Final Fantasy Tactics remaster that was also mentioned in the Nvidia leaks. After he's done with that, he'll most likely return to wrapping up the Bozja/Dalmasca plot in FFXIV, if he hasn't decided to work on a new project by then.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

1) Follow the conversation. It does have to do with the thread because the topic has shifted towards the possibility of the Garlemald stuff being addressed later in a sort of epilogue, when most people were running under the impression that the Bozja storyline was completely abandoned. It's likely that any Garlemald epilogue will partly tie into any follow-up to the Bozja storyline as well.

2) Why the hell are you even barging into this thread talking about a signature? Is this some joke attempt at a gotcha? Are you even aware this forum has a signature function? I've had mine for like 5 years and haven't bothered to make any changes to it. It's supposed to be a play on the 'if a tree falls in the forest' saying. God damn the average quality of posters in this forum has really fallen in recent years.

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Uh. OK? I was just making a comment about your signature but you do you buddy. It wasn't even a negative comment. It was an answer to a question.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Uh. OK? I was just making a comment about your signature but you do you buddy. It wasn't even a negative comment. It was an answer to a question.

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aww, I miss Renalt

https://media.tenor.com/nHxkcNWjaLYAAAAM/bunny-sad.gif