Superbolide change suggestion

Currently I feel as though superbolide is the only invulnerability that can be used without healer assistance. My suggestion is to change superbolide to instead make it so for 10s your hp cannot change and during that time have a percent of the damage you take be stored up and heal you at the end of the duration similar to macrocosmos on astro. This way GNB can better use their invul as regular mitigation much like how the other tanks are capable of doing and this would solve the interaction of GNB dying while using superbolide do to the current order of operations being, set hp to 1>become invulnerable making is possible but not common to take damage after setting hp to 1 and before you become invulnerable.

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Originally Posted by bobtheman888

Currently I feel as though superbolide is the only invulnerability that can be used without healer assistance. My suggestion is to change superbolide to instead make it so for 10s your hp cannot change and during that time have a percent of the damage you take be stored up and heal you at the end of the duration similar to macrocosmos on astro. This way GNB can better use their invul as regular mitigation much like how the other tanks are capable of doing and this would solve the interaction of GNB dying while using superbolide do to the current order of operations being, set hp to 1>become invulnerable making is possible but not common to take damage after setting hp to 1 and before you become invulnerable.

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I mean in some fights you can use Heart of Corundum's excog heal, and you have Aurora, while also some heal from brutal shell.

GNB isn't the only tank that can issues with invuln though, PLD can have issues with pressing it, animation effect needs to happen then invuln applies, if you go down during that small window, it suffers the same as Superbolide, WAR needs a macro to target self while using Holmgang in case you're out of range, DRK still needs a small heal just in case with Living Dead, so no invuln is perfect, they all come with flaws, so just gotta deal with it.

Heart of conundrum+brutal shell+aurora gets you to 30% hp while the other tanks are all able to heal themselves to full during their invuln, I feel like the healing isn't comparable at all and with paladin they don't set themselves to 1 hp, they can use their invulnerability early to avoid dying while GNB always goes to 1 before their invulnerability sets in

I don't think superbolide needs a change, but the GNB kit could get a bit of help.
DRK has a sustain close to GNB but also has the strongest mitigations thanks to TBN and Dark Mind, on top of Living Dead, arguably the best invuln.

GNB defensive kit is very solid but I feel that Camouflage and Aurora aren't doing a very good job.

Aurora is basically Equilibrium but it trades 1000 healing potency for a charge.
Either buff its potency or give it a side effect, it could even have an Excog effect, making GNB the "excog tank".

Camouflage is free mitig but when you compare it to other 90s mitigation...
Bulwark blocks all incoming attacks, which is a 20% mitigation.
Thrill of battle is 20% extra HP, it's not exactly 20% mitigation but it's still good with other mitigations, prevents you from falling low.

Then Camouflage, 10 more seconds but half the effect (10% mitigation) and 50% chance of parry.
It's not worthless but the parry is random and only works on physical attack. Which are more likely to be auto attacks.
I feel like Camouflage could trade its parry for something else entirely.

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Originally Posted by bobtheman888

Currently I feel as though superbolide is the only invulnerability that can be used without healer assistance. My suggestion is to change superbolide to instead make it so for 10s your hp cannot change and during that time have a percent of the damage you take be stored up and heal you at the end of the duration similar to macrocosmos on astro. This way GNB can better use their invul as regular mitigation much like how the other tanks are capable of doing and this would solve the interaction of GNB dying while using superbolide do to the current order of operations being, set hp to 1>become invulnerable making is possible but not common to take damage after setting hp to 1 and before you become invulnerable.

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some mechanics we invuln have the tanks take multiple hundreds of thousands of damage because they're eating something that applies a vuln (ie using an invuln to sorta cheese a swap). EG, Titan in E4S and his Stonecrusher stomp. Just checking a POV vid of a DRK/WAR to see how much damage the three stomps did, it looks like it was (at the time) 1.2m damage. Even if we were to say 'oh you only suffer 10% of the damage you took while the invuln was up, compiled and dealt at the end', that'd still be 120000 damage. And with the tank's HP bar in that vid being 143k, I'm not sure the healers would appreciate an 'invuln' that has such a nasty effect to it. It'd have the same issue as now, but where we currently have 'the tank dropped to 1hp, but it's ok because the boss is casting the TB castbar', it'd instead be 'oop the tank just had their invuln pop like Wildfire and drop them to 15% HP, oop and they're dead because the boss auto'd at the same time'

Reversing the order of when you become invulnerable and have your HP set to 1 is... Didn't they already do that? I know it was a thing on SHB release but I'm fairly sure it got fixed pretty quick. With the way server ticks work, it wouldn't surprise me if it still wasn't fixed though.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

I don't think superbolide needs a change, but the GNB kit could get a bit of help.
DRK has a sustain close to GNB but also has the strongest mitigations thanks to TBN and Dark Mind, on top of Living Dead, arguably the best invuln.

GNB defensive kit is very solid but I feel that Camouflage and Aurora aren't doing a very good job.

Camouflage is free mitig but when you compare it to other 90s mitigation...
Bulwark blocks all incoming attacks, which is a 20% mitigation.
Thrill of battle is 20% extra HP, it's not exactly 20% mitigation but it's still good with other mitigations, prevents you from falling low.

Then Camouflage, 10 more seconds but half the effect (10% mitigation) and 50% chance of parry.
It's not worthless but the parry is random and only works on physical attack. Which are more likely to be auto attacks.
I feel like Camouflage could trade its parry for something else entirely.

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Camo is fine IMO, the fact that it 'is best used on autos i guess' is fine, because then you can just look at it as 'oh ok then that frees up Rampart to be used for the TB'. Contrast that with Dark Mind, which is... yeh, it just doesn't do anything at all for physical damage. Bulwark has the exact same issues as Sheltron had before the update (doesn't mitigate attached DOT effects, is ignored if the attack is a crit (doesnt happen often, but y'know, old ultimates), etc). Thrill is the best of the bunch really, 20% more max and current HP is 20% EHP no matter how you slice it, and it can be used as a heal in a pinch, several times I've been too low for a 'is your HP full' check and not going to make it, popped Thrill to boost up, then clicked it off right away to keep the 'current HP' increase but throw away the 'max HP increase', thereby technically just being a 20% heal.

I think the shield from Brutal Shell is also not getting enough credit. Since it's not a green number that appears in your 'healing incoming' text, it kinda goes unnoticed

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Living Dead, arguably the best invuln.

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Jesus I feel old, wasn't it only yesterday people were saying it was hot garbage trash? JK, it's ok now, but Holmgang is still king, and as long as it's got the shortest CD, it always will be. No other tank can eat TBs 1 and 4 in P8S P2, for example. Stuff like that, where WAR is 'the only tank that can do it', has happened a lot through the game's life, so every other tank just has to kinda... kneel to the real king of cheese

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Originally Posted by bobtheman888

Currently I feel as though superbolide is the only invulnerability that can be used without healer assistance. My suggestion is to change superbolide to instead make it so for 10s your hp cannot change and during that time have a percent of the damage you take be stored up and heal you at the end of the duration similar to macrocosmos on astro. This way GNB can better use their invul as regular mitigation much like how the other tanks are capable of doing and this would solve the interaction of GNB dying while using superbolide do to the current order of operations being, set hp to 1>become invulnerable making is possible but not common to take damage after setting hp to 1 and before you become invulnerable.

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There are two kinds of Tank ultimates:

Invulnerability ("True Invuln")
Cannot Die ("Invuln"/"Last Stand" effect)

PLD (Hallowed Ground) and GNB (Superbolide) have True Invulns, which is why their CD is higher. When they use their abilities, they do not take any damage. GNB goes to 1 HP, but say you're then healed to 50%. For the rest of the 10 sec duration, you will stay at 50%, because you are not taking any damage.

WAR (Holmgang) and DRK (Living Dead) don't work that way. When you use either, you continue to take damage. You take damage until you get to 1 HP. You cannot take damage below 1 HP. Say you're healed to 50% health then take a big tankbuster that deals 80% of your health worth of damage. You WILL take damage from it and be knocked back down to 1 HP, you just won't be reduced below 1 HP. So you can be healed, injured, healed, inured, etc. You just won't die as long as the 10 seconds aren't up (outside of Ultimates/Enrages, anyway - "True" or "Darkness" damage pierces all defenses, even the "True Invulns")

Hallowed Ground can be used without Healer assistance. And better than Superbolide since you stay at max health (or whatever you were when using it) unlike Super. Holmgang can easily be dealt with with WAR's other tools, like using Thrill of Battle before Bloodwhetting and Equilibrium. You may not even need to use all those tools. DRK is really the only one that needs a bit of Healer assistance unless they have a lot of AOE targets to heal (WAR's healing is slower without them, but it has more tools to self-heal with.)

I'm fine with changing Superbolide, but what you proposed - take no damage, store up incoming damage to turn into a burst heal - would make it stronger than Hallowed, so it would need the longest CD in that case. Moreover, it would grief Healers even more since many wouldn't notice you used it (like now), but unlike now, they'd be blowing healing resources on you and your health wouldn't change, leading to confusion and possibly Healers thinking your health was changing, you were just taking damage right when they healed, maintaining your health, and so would continue burning resources trying to save you.

Some change is probably fine, but I'm not sure a "better but more confusing Hallowed Ground" is the answer, especially since Superbolide right now is more of a "slightly worse, somewhat confusing Hallowed Ground, that has a shorter CD to compensate for the weirdness" to begin with.

Superbolide is entirely fine the way it is. Having your HP set to 1 is in exchange for a lower cooldown than Hallowed Ground and you don't need to be full HP once Bolide runs out, you just need enough HP to not immediately get flattened by incoming damage, if your healer/s can't manage to do that within 10 seconds, during which you take no damage, then you need a new healer.


As for which of the two is superior, that depends entirely on the fight. There are fights where the lower cooldown of Superbolide makes all the difference.

In my (likely unpopular opinion), just make the invuln a role ability and make it the same for all jobs - whether it be HG, Holmgang or Living Dead. Of course, HG with a lower cooldown would be king, but that's only if the cooldown is lower. As the OP said, most other tanks can heal to full (or not need to heal at all due to the nature of HG). When SE addressed Living Dead, they should have addressed Superbolide.

honestly the biggest change should be applying the invlun before eating you health

cosrrundum+ aurora (tbh just aurora) is enought o get you back to managable, holmgang is really the only one of concern since it cant heal itself while its gettign smacked in the case of multi hit attacks (like bahamuts flame breaths)

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

honestly the biggest change should be applying the invlun before eating you health

cosrrundum+ aurora (tbh just aurora) is enought o get you back to managable, holmgang is really the only one of concern since it cant heal itself while its gettign smacked in the case of multi hit attacks (like bahamuts flame breaths)

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True. The moment you hit 1 HP with Holmgang, you should be invuln for X seconds - time for a WAR to self-heal a bit using their own defensive kit.

yeah wariors maxhealth/hp gain up + health steroid is enough, its just REALLY scary when you have a multi hit (flames breath, p8s split TB if you want to solo the autos) where if you screw up timing you have no insurance from health unless you can time those two back.

in 80% of the game being wayyyyyyy less stakes it actually does not matter.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Superbolide is entirely fine the way it is. Having your HP set to 1 is in exchange for a lower cooldown than Hallowed Ground and you don't need to be full HP once Bolide runs out, you just need enough HP to not immediately get flattened by incoming damage, if your healer/s can't manage to do that within 10 seconds, during which you take no damage, then you need a new healer.


As for which of the two is superior, that depends entirely on the fight. There are fights where the lower cooldown of Superbolide makes all the difference.

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I agree with this.

The Only Problem with super bolide is in combination with benediction,
You want to wait to drop low before using it, but then the White mage uses benediction the same moment and you get full healed right as you push the button and fall back to 1 xD