Omega Ultimate bugged

Been seeing some bugs from getting insta killed from a auto attack. Did the devs really test this at all?

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...0d4531ed55c440

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Originally Posted by Pratini

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...0d4531ed55c440

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Still an issue in p5 where the tank can get meleed 1 second before vuln falls off

As far as I've heard they've only fixed one of those 2 instances of that bug happening. SE should fix this asap.

it seems to me like they tested the fight phase by phase instead of all of it from start to finish
which begs the question: do they really really really really really not use cheats or debug tools when testing the fight?
because if they do they have no claim to consider themselves superior to players who cheat

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

it seems to me like they tested the fight phase by phase instead of all of it from start to finish
which begs the question: do they really really really really really not use cheats or debug tools when testing the fight?
because if they do they have no claim to consider themselves superior to players who cheat

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They are the Devs, they can be whatever they want, cheating is breaking the TOS and should get everyone that does it banned

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Originally Posted by solimiano

They are the Devs, they can be whatever they want, cheating is breaking the TOS and should get everyone that does it banned

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on a legal and ToS sense yes, if you cheat as a consumer you broke the rules
but on a moral level I just don't wanna hear about how "the devs cleared without third party tools" when they used cheats even more egregious than what players have access to

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

it seems to me like they tested the fight phase by phase instead of all of it from start to finish
which begs the question: do they really really really really really not use cheats or debug tools when testing the fight?
because if they do they have no claim to consider themselves superior to players who cheat

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Of course the developers and qa testers use debugging points and tools to measure things when they test, that's the point. That's their job. If they had to actually prog everything and consistently hit the DPS check every time to test some potential interaction on P6 then it would take 3x as long to actually find and fix problems. Why would they not use tools like that to test it?

But we are regulated by the tos and not by moral, like a said in another thread, if all the mods available are made part of the official game no one has nothing to complain about, until that time any mod used is breaking the TOS, and as such is punishable by account termination.
I don't want to discuss if's or Grey's, etc, are they a option ylthats in the main game, awesome if not, ban.

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Originally Posted by solimiano

But we are regulated by the tos and not by moral, like a said in another thread, if all the mods available are made part of the official game no one has nothing to complain about, until that time any mod used is breaking the TOS, and as such is punishable by account termination.
I don't want to discuss if's or Grey's, etc, are they a option ylthats in the main game, awesome if not, ban.

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yes we are regulated
but that doesn't mean we are not allowed to judge developers on a moral level, especially when we are beaten on the head about how "they cleared without the use of third party tools"
as if the prog of developers is equivalent to what players have to do to prog, i.e. restarting all the way to the beginning each wipe

yes it's illegal
yes it's against the rules
but that's not what I'm discussing here

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

yes we are regulated
but that doesn't mean we are not allowed to judge developers on a moral level, especially when we are beaten on the head about how "they cleared without the use of third party tools"
as if the prog of developers is equivalent to what players have to do to prog, i.e. restarting all the way to the beginning each wipe

yes it's illegal
yes it's against the rules
but that's not what I'm discussing here

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The testers are not "progging" the fight. They're pulling open up different phases to make sure that buffs are applied correctly in situations even when players disconnect, and that nothing despawns or falls out of the map in fringe cases. You seem to have a fundemental misunderstanding of what testers do. They aren't there to prog the fight blind and then clear multiple times, they're there to make sure the DPS check is possible to hit and that mechanics don't glitch out leaving players unable to complete it.

Every bit of content in this game is designed, balanced, and tested based on the assumption that players doing this will not be using tools. Full stop. That doesn't mean testers and devs don't use debugging tools while testing to make sure everything reacts the way it's supposed to.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

yes we are regulated
but that doesn't mean we are not allowed to judge developers on a moral level, especially when we are beaten on the head about how "they cleared without the use of third party tools"
as if the prog of developers is equivalent to what players have to do to prog, i.e. restarting all the way to the beginning each wipe

yes it's illegal
yes it's against the rules
but that's not what I'm discussing here

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Ok, so you want to discuss the setup they used, unless they state it somewhere we will never know.
I also tend to put a lot more effort in job than my hobbies, I get paid for my work, my hobbies are for me to relax and have fun, so whoever is clearing the fights might be better and putting more effort than us.
It might be they actually never encountered the bugs in a meaningful way that warrants a maintenance, but like always if enough people can prove the bug and complain in the technical forums/ bug section they might go for emergency maintenance and fix it.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

The testers are not "progging" the fight. They're pulling open up different phases to make sure that buffs are applied correctly in situations even when players disconnect, and that nothing despawns or falls out of the map in fringe cases. You seem to have a fundemental misunderstanding of what testers do. They aren't there to prog the fight blind and then clear multiple times, they're there to make sure the DPS check is possible to hit and that mechanics don't glitch out leaving players unable to complete it.

Every bit of content in this game is designed, balanced, and tested based on the assumption that players doing this will not be using tools. Full stop. That doesn't mean testers and devs don't use debugging tools while testing to make sure everything reacts the way it's supposed to.

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ah yes because checkpointing clearly allowed them to test the fight properly without leaving out the possibility of the main tank having a lingering magic vuln debuff that would get him instantly killed upon the boss autoattacking

maybe if they didn't cheat they could have caught this problem before release

I suspect this is more to do with latency than anything else, ie. if you have higher latency, you could get tagged for the auto, before the debuff expires. Of course, being a tester, you have very minimal latency, so these issues do not come up, meaning you can make the time between the debuff wearing off and the first auto as small as possible.

In theory, this should be a learning point for the battle team to test buff/debuff timers and potential one shot hits in a range of different latency scenarios, just to make sure nothing like this happens again.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

ah yes because checkpointing clearly allowed them to test the fight properly without leaving out the possibility of the main tank having a lingering magic vuln debuff that would get him instantly killed upon the boss autoattacking

maybe if they didn't cheat they could have caught this problem before release

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You seem to believe that it is only possible to test something one way, that somehow if tools were used at some point to examine a specific part of the fight, it magically becomes physically impossible to also test the fight at other times without using said tools. This view conflicts with reality.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

The testers are not "progging" the fight. They're pulling open up different phases to make sure that buffs are applied correctly in situations even when players disconnect, and that nothing despawns or falls out of the map in fringe cases. You seem to have a fundemental misunderstanding of what testers do. They aren't there to prog the fight blind and then clear multiple times, they're there to make sure the DPS check is possible to hit and that mechanics don't glitch out leaving players unable to complete it.

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If only there were testers that didnt use god mod only, bugs like p3 auto attack, p5 vuln auto, buff cap limit wouldn't get into release (also might add p4 dps check in heavily 2 min meta)

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

I suspect this is more to do with latency than anything else, ie. if you have higher latency, you could get tagged for the auto, before the debuff expires. Of course, being a tester, you have very minimal latency, so these issues do not come up, meaning you can make the time between the debuff wearing off and the first auto as small as possible.

In theory, this should be a learning point for the battle team to test buff/debuff timers and potential one shot hits in a range of different latency scenarios, just to make sure nothing like this happens again.

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Just an overarching problem with SE not realizing people have to deal with latency when they live outside of Japan. You can really see that weakness when you see how long it has taken them to add charges the hypercharge for MCH and we still have problems with double weaving or even single weaving.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

Just an overarching problem with SE not realizing people have to deal with latency when they live outside of Japan. You can really see that weakness when you see how long it has taken them to add charges the hypercharge for MCH and we still have problems with double weaving or even single weaving.

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The netcode/ping issues are so whack. I used to main ninja, and moving to a location way closer to the US servers made me feel like I was playing a different game. I went from being the master of rabbit hats to consistently using mudras properly in 3 days, entirely because of the ping difference.

It's just so strange to me, bc from what I understand, noclippy/xivalexander mostly fixes ping issues? so clearly it's possible for them to fix it. I don't understand why, after years, nothing has been done to allow people with higher ping to play the game as initially intended without forcing them to resort to 3rd party plugins. I'd understand if it was impossible to fix, but the existence of noclippy proves that wrong.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

ah yes because checkpointing clearly allowed them to test the fight properly without leaving out the possibility of the main tank having a lingering magic vuln debuff that would get him instantly killed upon the boss autoattacking

maybe if they didn't cheat they could have caught this problem before release

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This is a whole LOT of assumptions you're throwing out here as someone who lacks the insider information on what actually goes on with the testing group. I'll give you that its a plausibility but it would be idiotic to even assume they havent thought of just that as someone whom designed the encounter.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

I suspect this is more to do with latency than anything else, ie. if you have higher latency, you could get tagged for the auto, before the debuff expires. Of course, being a tester, you have very minimal latency, so these issues do not come up, meaning you can make the time between the debuff wearing off and the first auto as small as possible.

In theory, this should be a learning point for the battle team to test buff/debuff timers and potential one shot hits in a range of different latency scenarios, just to make sure nothing like this happens again.

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I don't think it's a latency issue
p8s p2 has a similar very tight timing with the debuff
if you got picked for Natural Alignment 1 you got a debuff called forcible failure
if you took ANY damage with that debuff on you would explode and deal 99999999 damage to everyone
the debuff wears off literally at 3/4ths of the cast bar of aionopyr which is a raid wide
but the debuff consistently wore off before the raid wide hit regardless of latency or ping, I know because I play on NA as an european and I have 160 ping to the servers.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

I don't think it's a latency issue
p8s p2 has a similar very tight timing with the debuff
if you got picked for Natural Alignment 1 you got a debuff called forcible failure
if you took ANY damage with that debuff on you would explode and deal 99999999 damage to everyone
the debuff wears off literally at 3/4ths of the cast bar of aionopyr which is a raid wide
but the debuff consistently wore off before the raid wide hit regardless of latency or ping, I know because I play on NA as an european and I have 160 ping to the servers.

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The timing between the debuff wearing off and the auto attack is even tighter. Xeno has a recent video where he shows this to be the case (https://youtu.be/aLbYDwWos-g?t=224 timestamped for convenience). The Auto Attack is happening before the debuff wears off, so, when the game calculated the damage, the debuff was still active. This is much tighter timing than a castbar being 3/4 of the way done before the debuff wears off, this is more a case of, the castbar is 99% full when it wears off. All it needs is a slight delay to when the boss can start attacking, a delay that would probably be small enough noone would notice, and it would fix the issue.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

I suspect this is more to do with latency than anything else, ie. if you have higher latency, you could get tagged for the auto, before the debuff expires. Of course, being a tester, you have very minimal latency, so these issues do not come up, meaning you can make the time between the debuff wearing off and the first auto as small as possible.

In theory, this should be a learning point for the battle team to test buff/debuff timers and potential one shot hits in a range of different latency scenarios, just to make sure nothing like this happens again.

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Well I watched a number of streamers like Xenos and Mr Happy and they all had the bug of getting one shot by a auto attack. So it's not latency just a bug. Sadly since EW has been released they been getting plagued by all sorts of bugs. As much as I enjoy the game I feel like they haven't given 100% at all

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

I suspect this is more to do with latency than anything else, ie. if you have higher latency, you could get tagged for the auto, before the debuff expires. Of course, being a tester, you have very minimal latency, so these issues do not come up, meaning you can make the time between the debuff wearing off and the first auto as small as possible.

In theory, this should be a learning point for the battle team to test buff/debuff timers and potential one shot hits in a range of different latency scenarios, just to make sure nothing like this happens again.

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Well, if it was a latency issue SQEX wouldn't be as religious in mentioning it as a special Known Issue. Just look at NIN bug which they haven't hotfixed, the amount of years it took to fix Bloodweapon and MCH, etc.