Lottery Bad Luck Protection

What do people think of a bad luck protection system for the lottery? For each plot you lose on, you get an extra ticket for next time until you win at which point it would be reset back to 1.

This would mean that persistent players who will bid each week on every and any plot will increasingly have their chances increased at getting a house and it will mean newcomers and people that are picky about plots will get drastically reduced chances?

Is this a fair system do you think?

I think the lotto system needs to be abolished and we can go back to placard clicking.

This topic was beaten up here before - and for good reason.

The lottery is built on RNG - which is no longer RNG when you start screwing with it like you are proposing, and no longer a lottery. Now, you are proposing a 'preferred system' and an unfair one at that.

if gaming companies could somehow implement true RNG (atmospheric noise), that would be something nice to actually have in the game, then there could really be no complaining about RNG. While a lot of people (myself included) believe RNG in gaming is flawed, it's better than absolutely nothing.

I believe it's flawed because you have human error, and it is just controlled chaos, but built on math. Math has a funky way of synchronicity and can be stuck in a pattern of sorts. So they have to have 'provable randomness' in RNG which will keep their code 'honest'.

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Originally Posted by Elevin

What do people think of a bad luck protection system for the lottery? For each plot you lose on, you get an extra ticket for next time until you win at which point it would be reset back to 1.

This would mean that persistent players who will bid each week on every and any plot will increasingly have their chances increased at getting a house and it will mean newcomers and people that are picky about plots will get drastically reduced chances?

Is this a fair system do you think?

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It doesn't matter how many times this gets mentioned. It will not work.

Bad luck protection works in systems where it's the player competing solely against the game's RNG system to get a reward. It doesn't work when the player is competing against other players. Too many players will end up with that same bad lock protection, negating any potential benefit.

They should bring back placard clicking now that I got my shell fc house and a personal beach house on my main. I don't care anymore lmao

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I think the lotto system needs to be abolished and we can go back to placard clicking.

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Yeah! Only people with no jobs and carpal tunnel should be allowed houses, they earned it!

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Yeah! Only people with no jobs and carpal tunnel should be allowed houses, they earned it!

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Yes, but sincerely.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Yeah! Only people with no jobs and carpal tunnel should be allowed houses, they earned it!

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The only people getting houses in this scenario are the RMTers and botters reselling FC houses.

Bad luck protection against every other player that also had bad luck. Sounds legit.

I don't see what a "pity bonus" would do.

Let's keep it simple. There's a plot for sale. 100 people bid on it, 1 ticket each. 99 lose. These 99 players each get one "pity."

Next plot comes up for sale. Those 99 people bid on it, 2 tickets each. What's different? 98 still lose and then those 98 get a second "pity."
Next plot comes up for sale. Those 98 people bid on it, 3 tickets each. What's different? etc etc

I don't see what this system would really do... other than box out newer players. Which I'm sure makes great business sense for SE. It is RNG. Deal with it. For whatever it is worth, I've lost my bid in every lottery. RNG is going to RNG.

This is dumb, you're asking SE what people gamble and lose would try asking the Mega Millions to do, it's called a lottery for a reason.

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Originally Posted by Pablomaldito

Bad luck protection against every other player that also had bad luck. Sounds legit.

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well no, they explicitly programmed something like that into bozja for the Duels, i could see that working for houses.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It doesn't matter how many times this gets mentioned. It will not work.

Bad luck protection works in systems where it's the player competing solely against the game's RNG system to get a reward. It doesn't work when the player is competing against other players. Too many players will end up with that same bad lock protection, negating any potential benefit.

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In overpopulated worlds and without auto-demolition, then yes. In other worlds, this may actually be a reasonable thing, especially when new wards get implemented and housing districts, the amount of people vying for larger properties, and properties in general will drop off over time. On top of that, the next housing district would have 30 wards.

Working on Balmung? Not unless players decide to actually relocated to less populated worlds.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Yes, but sincerely.

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Wow, not even trying to hide your toxic ideals behind some disingenuous fallacy argument. Respect.

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

The only people getting houses in this scenario are the RMTers and botters reselling FC houses.

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Demonstrably not true, everyone gets a fair shot.
And who do you think was getting houses before the lottery system? What kind of people have auto-clicking software readily available?

Players: "I can't be online at all hours of the day competing with other players who are trying to get a house. I have a job and a family and a life. I shouldn't be forced to take time off or cancel plans to get a house when the servers come online. Houses shouldn't cost more gil because I can't make that much gil and I shouldn't have to. Housing shouldn't be gated by grindy requirements because that would be unfair to casuals who don't have a lot of play time. We should get a lottery anyone can win."

Players after getting what they wanted: "Not like this. I want preferential treatment. Something needs to be done about all these other players who are winning houses before me."

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Originally Posted by Alltair

I think having a pity rate system would be great but the implementation is difficult. Your proposition has some flaws, firstly I think one extra ticket per lost lottery is too fast as an accumulation rate. Also if a pity rate build up system was introduced we'd probably see people find ways and methods to game the system and "farm" it, one example I can think of is a random small plot on every world becoming a "farm" plot with like 400 bidders who all just placed their bids in an effort to lose and accumulate pity rate.

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This.
You will have player who farm the pity as high as possible just to then use it on the big house in prime location.

In the end it will reward the system abuser that create multiple accounts and organize with other player of false intentions.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Demonstrably not true, everyone gets a fair shot.
And who do you think was getting houses before the lottery system? What kind of people have auto-clicking software readily available?

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Yes, let's give people something so easily and so hastily cuz they "have a job you know."

Equal opportunity shouldn't mean equal outcomes.

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Originally Posted by AlanJust

Yes, let's give people something so easily and so hastily cuz they "have a job you know."

Equal opportunity shouldn't mean equal outcomes.

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Of course it should. You have the gil, just like anyone, so you enter with the same chances of the same outcomes as everyone else. That's absolutely fair. Everyone is playing by the same rules. You don't get an unfair advantage because of some unrelated qualifier like "doesn't have a job".

I've yet to see any argument against the lottery system that doesn't boil down to saltiness over losing their lottery fair and square.
Newsflash; you'd still be salty if you lost to a bot auto-clicker. At least this way you haven't spent 18 hours glued to your screen and missed three meals and potentially an entire day of school/work, not to mention messing up your sleep cycle, for nothing.

Sacrificing your health and wellbeing to repeatedly click a button for up to 18 hours straight is not a good game design. There are predatory gatcha games out there for the type of people who enjoy that. Go knock yourself out.

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Originally Posted by AlanJust

Yes, let's give people something so easily and so hastily cuz they "have a job you know."

Equal opportunity shouldn't mean equal outcomes.

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I thought people were joking with the whole clicking the placard thing being a good system, but clearly you guys aren't. Placard clicking was definitely a terrible system and the lottery system should have been implemented years ago as soon as there were signs of a housing shortage. Lets face it, it's an open secret that most people used dubious ways to get houses and the devs knew it too just like they aren't blind to all the plugins/mods and even are looking at implementing quality of life elements from plugins. And the only real winners of the placard clicking were those who used dubious methods of automation who were able to at least monitor their computer all day... which begs the question that anyone still in favour of that system most definitely used those methods.

Now, the lottery does indeed suck a lot of the time, especially when you can spend a year bidding on every plot and lose each time, then a first timer comes along and wins. More salt in the wound when you go back weeks/months later and the place hasn't been touched, not even a summoning bell.

Hence why I proposed a system where you increase the amount of tickets after each failed bid until you win at which point it resets. Is it open for abuse as people suggest? Yes and no, people could inadvertently screw themselves over by trying to rack up tickets and then win a plot they actually didn't want which would reset their tickets back to 1. This definitely would work on normal realms. Even on Lich which seems like one of the more populated worlds in Europe, the only times you had literally hundreds of tickets was when you had literally 1 medium crop up all because the devs have disabled auto demolition and adding more wards in the future, it would likely result in most people eventually getting what they want, or at least being happy with what they have, or give them more hope at getting what they want.

Also, add an upstairs to small houses. :3

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Of course it should. You have the gil, just like anyone, so you enter with the same chances of the same outcomes as everyone else. That's absolutely fair.

I've yet to see any argument against the lottery system that doesn't boil down to saltiness over losing their lottery fair and square.
Newsflash; you'd still be salty if you lost to a bot auto-clicker. At least this way you haven't spent 18 hours glued to your screen and missed three meals and potentially an entire day of school/work, not to mention messing up your sleep cycle, for nothing.

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You might need to take off these goggles cause they are giving you some issues.
"Fairness", depends on several factors, not just having Gil and being lucky but should also factor in effort, planning, and persistence.
The lottery system isn't "fair and square", there are FCs taking up entire wards using that "very fair" lottery system, multiple accounts exploiting the chances with botting still evident having empty large plots.
I lost twice to placard-bots back in the day before getting my house, and I still believe I had better odds back then compared to the current system.

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Originally Posted by Elevin

Lich which seems like one of the more populated worlds in Europe, the only times you had literally hundreds of tickets was when you had literally 1 medium crop up all because the devs have disabled auto demolition and adding more wards in the future, it would likely result in most people eventually getting what they want, or at least being happy with what they have, or give them more hope at getting what they want.

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Lich has houses available for personal bidders, so you clearly just want a system that would give an advantage when competing for the better and bigger plots. An advantage that would be unfair, because you are not more deserving of a medium or a large plot just because you really want one. If there are 0 bid plots available then anyone can get a house, and if anyone can get a house they don't need bad luck protection.

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Originally Posted by Elevin

I thought people were joking with the whole clicking the placard thing being a good system, but clearly you guys aren't. Placard clicking was definitely a terrible system and the lottery system should have been implemented years ago as soon as there were signs of a housing shortage. Lets face it, it's an open secret that most people used dubious ways to get houses and the devs knew it too just like they aren't blind to all the plugins/mods and even are looking at implementing quality of life elements from plugins. And the only real winners of the placard clicking were those who used dubious methods of automation who were able to at least monitor their computer all day... which begs the question that anyone still in favour of that system most definitely used those methods.

Now, the lottery does indeed suck a lot of the time, especially when you can spend a year bidding on every plot and lose each time, then a first timer comes along and wins. More salt in the wound when you go back weeks/months later and the place hasn't been touched, not even a summoning bell.

Hence why I proposed a system where you increase the amount of tickets after each failed bid until you win at which point it resets. Is it open for abuse as people suggest? Yes and no, people could inadvertently screw themselves over by trying to rack up tickets and then win a plot they actually didn't want which would reset their tickets back to 1. This definitely would work on normal realms. Even on Lich which seems like one of the more populated worlds in Europe, the only times you had literally hundreds of tickets was when you had literally 1 medium crop up all because the devs have disabled auto demolition and adding more wards in the future, it would likely result in most people eventually getting what they want, or at least being happy with what they have, or give them more hope at getting what they want.

Also, add an upstairs to small houses. :3

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I would never ask for the Placard clicking back, but I certainly feel like it was a strong barrier to entry for people who "really" wanted a house. It saddens me to see people bid on plots; then do nothing with them, or simply abandon it the following week, and some don't even claim their plot when the lottery period ends.

I wish for more barriers to entering the lottery, as the demand for plots is still insanely high.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Players: "I can't be online at all hours of the day competing with other players who are trying to get a house. I have a job and a family and a life. I shouldn't be forced to take time off or cancel plans to get a house when the servers come online. Houses shouldn't cost more gil because I can't make that much gil and I shouldn't have to. Housing shouldn't be gated by grindy requirements because that would be unfair to casuals who don't have a lot of play time. We should get a lottery anyone can win."

Players after getting what they wanted: "Not like this. I want preferential treatment. Something needs to be done about all these other players who are winning houses before me."

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You forgot that everyone should get a mansion because small houses are for losers.

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Originally Posted by AlanJust

You might need to take off these goggles cause they are giving you some issues.
"Fairness", depends on several factors, not just having Gil and being lucky but should also factor in effort, planning, and persistence.
The lottery system isn't "fair and square", there are FCs taking up entire wards using that "very fair" lottery system, multiple accounts exploiting the chances with botting still evident having empty large plots.
I lost twice to placard-bots back in the day before getting my house, and I still believe I had better odds back then compared to the current system.

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Originally Posted by AlanJust

I would never ask for the Placard clicking back, but I certainly feel like it was a strong barrier to entry for people who "really" wanted a house. It saddens me to see people bid on plots; then do nothing with them, or simply abandon it the following week, and some don't even claim their plot when the lottery period ends.

I wish for more barriers to entering the lottery, as the demand for plots is still insanely high.

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So you don't want the placard clicking system back. Good, there's hope for you yet.

Of course there are things that can be improved, but there is no question that the current system is completely fair. Everyone gets the same opportunities. That is the definition of fair. What they do with those opportunities is their business, and anyone else's opinion on those actions is simply borne from jealousy.
If someone wants to bid for a house simply to use it as a stop gap with an aetheryte and a retainer bell, that's their business. It's disappointing, but it's fair. You can't tell other people how to decorate their homes.
FC's have multiple people, and therefore they get multiple opportunities to get their one single house, because it's multiple people using it, that's fair, because every FC can do the same thing.
People who play multiple characters or pay for multiple accounts, are entitled to put their bid in for a house on each of those characters/accounts. That's what everyone is entitled to in this system. That's fair.
They're all still playing exactly the same odds, they all have the same deal, all pay the same amount of gil, etc. You can't bot your way into a house anymore btw, everyone's ticket is equally weighted.

I'm not opposed to raising barriers (if they're equal for everyone) to entry into housing. I've been in favour of raising the cost of Medium and Large plots to more closely match the demand for those limited plots.
And if they were to change the rules as to how many houses can be owned per service account, then that new qualifier would also be fair under the lottery system, as it would apply equally to everyone.
As long as the same rules apply to everyone, it's fair. The same couldn't be said of placard clicking, because it could be exploited via autoclickers, and featured the incredibly unreasonable requirement to be 100% present for up to 18 hours straight. Even Ultimate Raiding isn't that harsh.

It won't happen for the same reason many other changes won't happen: an obvious priority is to keep new players on equal footing with veterans. "Bad luck protection" is the same as saying "get in line".

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Lich has houses available for personal bidders, so you clearly just want a system that would give an advantage when competing for the better and bigger plots. An advantage that would be unfair, because you are not more deserving of a medium or a large plot just because you really want one. If there are 0 bid plots available then anyone can get a house, and if anyone can get a house they don't need bad luck protection.

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Indeed, I do want a system that gives better odds to persistent players. You see all the salty posts around and admittedly I am salty after losing several mediums to people that have left them to rot since the lottery system first started and they clearly had no interest in housing in the first place, yet got lucky and won. And just checked the last 2 mediums I lost on...both houses have no gardens, one of them has no aetheryte and both of them have no summoning bells inside, nor decorations. Quite frankly, it's depressing for myself and others who are genuinely interested and love housing that you can bang your head against a brick wall every 9 days because your 20th attempt on a house amounted to nothing whilst some first timer comes along and wins...

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Originally Posted by Elevin

Indeed, I do want a system that gives better odds to persistent players. You see all the salty posts around and admittedly I am salty after losing several mediums to people that have left them to rot since the lottery system first started and they clearly had no interest in housing in the first place, yet got lucky and won. And just checked the last 2 mediums I lost on...both houses have no gardens, one of them has no aetheryte and both of them have no summoning bells inside, nor decorations. Quite frankly, it's depressing for myself and others who are genuinely interested and love housing that you can bang your head against a brick wall every 9 days because your 20th attempt on a house amounted to nothing whilst some first timer comes along and wins...

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You don't know that they are first timers or that they aren't going to decorate at some point. There's no reason to get angry at how other people choose to play the game. They have to bid all the time because in a random system there is no knowing when they're going to win, and sometimes people win when they are busy with other things. Your suggestion would further encourage people to keep bidding even if they are not that interested in housing at the moment.

What you are asking for is a queue thinking you will be at the front of it, which is basically the most convenient and beneficial system for you. What if bad luck protection was only offered to people who have been playing for more than 6 years and have never owned a house? Would you still want their bid to have more weight than yours on those mediums you are looking for?

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Originally Posted by Elevin

Indeed, I do want a system that gives better odds to persistent players. You see all the salty posts around and admittedly I am salty after losing several mediums to people that have left them to rot since the lottery system first started and they clearly had no interest in housing in the first place, yet got lucky and won. And just checked the last 2 mediums I lost on...both houses have no gardens, one of them has no aetheryte and both of them have no summoning bells inside, nor decorations. Quite frankly, it's depressing for myself and others who are genuinely interested and love housing that you can bang your head against a brick wall every 9 days because your 20th attempt on a house amounted to nothing whilst some first timer comes along and wins...

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Persistent players do already have better odds through the nature of being persistent.
If you bid for a plot in two separate rounds of lottery, you already have twice the chances of someone who bid in one round of the lottery.
Every 9 days you can roll the dice again, gaining one additional chance to win a plot. Each bid in each subsequent round is another ticket.

You might only have a small chance of winning, lets say there's 10 bids on average so it's 10%. Well you play 10 rounds and statistically you'll win one of them.

And yes, it may be depressing, but what people do with their plot is 100% their business. If they keep their house locked up and their garden is empty except for an aetheryte, that's their choice. You can't tell people what to do with their houses, any more than someone could come along and tell you how to decorate yours.
It would be wonderful if everyone would decorate their gardens and open up their houses for visitors, but you can't make them.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Wow, not even trying to hide your toxic ideals behind some disingenuous fallacy argument. Respect.


Demonstrably not true, everyone gets a fair shot.
And who do you think was getting houses before the lottery system? What kind of people have auto-clicking software readily available?

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You read me wrong, friend. I was talking about the placard click system, the lotto can't be botted.

Getting a +1 like you do in eg. Bozzja alike content with the 1v1 fights wont work... other than everyone suddenly got the max +3 bonus to get a housing plot.

RNG is what it is... you put your money on a lottery ticket and got a chance to get picked by those others who did the same.

If you got no house and all you do is is to bid on medium and large you decrease your chances as many try those... if you want to increase your chance for a large or medium... get a cottage first.... once that is done... you can wait and see untill an hour or something before the lottery numbers is picked and see which house of your prefered destination has the least bets on them and try that.

And if you have been trying for a small/cottage since ARR?

While I don't think bad luck protection should be on Meds/Larges, I absolutely think it should be on smalls. Or just dump more wards on specific servers who need it.

Mao STILL amazed peoples want this. Peoples who want this not thinking about the fact that would be so many other peoples who would also have. In end nobody would be any further aheads. Is silly way of tryings to say "gives ME advantage over all others".