My gripe on blue mage tanks

Honestly what is the point? I've used frog legs, hydro pull and sticky tongue and yet mobs ignore them and still go after the other blue mages. It's like the most pointless spec I've had the misfortune to play as once threat is lost. Nothing I do gets the mobs back onto me until I've spammed everything in my arsenal to eventually get threat back again, in which several other blue mages have already died. Can this be double checked please? Frog legs is supposed to "provoke nearby enemies, placing yourself at the top of their emnity list." Right now it's doing nothing.

Spam White Wind.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Spam White Wind.

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That. White Wind is the biggest Enmity generator in the game. If you have things mobbed up you can then use Eye Beam to maintain aggro and mobs shouldn't last very long anyway whether it's burst or Ram's Vibe Check.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

That. White Wind is the biggest Enmity generator in the game. If you have things mobbed up you can then use Eye Beam to maintain aggro and mobs shouldn't last very long anyway whether it's burst or Ram's Vibe Check.

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Eye Beam? Do you mean Glower? I've been using The Look due to its increased enmity and same potency, however it's only useful in close range. That said the additional paralysis sounds like it could be more useful at least in terms of mitigation.

Placing yourself at the top of the enmity list, is not a way of initially pulling aggro.

You might have aggro for a split second, but the moment anyone else generates any enmity, you will lose aggro. This will occur within a split second as someone else's attack connects after your Frog Legs.

Frog Legs is a enmity catch up mechanic. If you're way behind on enmity and you need to be on top, you start with Frog Legs to put yourself on the same level as the highest enmity. But in order to gain an enmity lead, you need to use something that generates enmity, which Frog Legs doesn't do.

Just to double check are you sure your nearby the enemies? As frog legs has abysmal range that needs you to be basically hugging the boss to work.

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Originally Posted by geekgirl101

Eye Beam? Do you mean Glower? I've been using The Look due to its increased enmity and same potency, however it's only useful in close range. That said the additional paralysis sounds like it could be more useful at least in terms of mitigation.

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It's the Look that has the Enmity. But you probably most cases can just spam whatever since mobs gonna die quick anyway.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Frog Legs is a enmity catch up mechanic. If you're way behind on enmity and you need to be on top, you start with Frog Legs to put yourself on the same level as the highest enmity. But in order to gain an enmity lead, you need to use something that generates enmity, which Frog Legs doesn't do.

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That's not the way it's worded in the tooltip. The tooltip gives the impression that it behaves the same as provoke.

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Originally Posted by undull1

Just to double check are you sure your nearby the enemies? As frog legs has abysmal range that needs you to be basically hugging the boss to work.

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Yes I was practically on top of them and they didn't respond at all to it.

Provoke got HUGE BUFFS so it not only puts you on top, it puts you on top and then adds 25%.

That's a buff to provoke that blu never got, so blu does exactly what it says on the tin, while provoke has hidden bonus that isn't written anywhere, and causes confusion by being secret.

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Originally Posted by geekgirl101

Eye Beam? Do you mean Glower? I've been using The Look due to its increased enmity and same potency, however it's only useful in close range. That said the additional paralysis sounds like it could be more useful at least in terms of mitigation.

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You should use a fast cast that gives you weave slots. This usually means either Sharpened Knife (highest potency) or Sonic Boom (lower potency but you can attack at range if needed.)

As others have said, you should be using White Wind to generate aggro. You will typically swiftcast a White Wind on the pull and this will lock you into the aggro lead. As long as you are weaving your Primal spells in between uses of Diamondback, Dragon Force, etc you should have no issues maintaining aggro. You do not need The Look.

You will generally not need two tanks for any content, though I think there are some raids that might use two tanks as an option. Getting in Blood Drains and Magic Hammer between Diamondback windows is typically enough to keep a single tank alive through almost anything. Avail can also be an option - it's effectively a reverse Cover (they take the damage for you.)

Note that you have absolutely no reason to use a tank morph for dungeons. You will typically run one healer and three DPS. The healer can go into Mighty Guard if the boss has powerful autoswings, but generally you can just Diamondback any tankbusters and be just fine. Normal mobs will die immediately to Ultravibration rotations. You might run Mighty Guard if you're doing a W2W but with four BLU, you can afford to just split each leg into two pulls.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Provoke got HUGE BUFFS so it not only puts you on top, it puts you on top and then adds 25%.

That's a buff to provoke that blu never got, so blu does exactly what it says on the tin, while provoke has hidden bonus that isn't written anywhere, and causes confusion by being secret.

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This.

Provoke USED to work this way where it put you even with the top enmity person, maybe +1 or something. So you immediately had to do your threat combo (back when Tanks had those) otherwise that person would immediately pull threat using their very next attack. Provoke now has an extra bonus on top of that, I think, but it didn't always, and Frog Legs is modeled after the old provoke.

The things you want are things like The Look or Sticky Tongue with the "Additional Effect: Increased Enmity" tag. Contrast "Increased Enmity" (which the normal Tanks' ranged thing like Shield Lob or Tomahawk also have) vs "placing yourself at the top". Increased Enmity are the things you spam in your rotation to maintain a threat lead, "placing yourself at the top" is what you use if you're already behind to catch up (e.g if you died and got raised or for a Tank swap) followed quickly by Increased Enmity abilities to ensure you STAY at the top and widen your threat lead.

EDIT: Oh, and White Wind. Because massive AOE overhealing generates huge threat. It's one reason the Hunt Train (when tons of people) meta is having a bunch of Healers on your team just tag the enemy then chain cast their AOE spells while one Tank in Tank stance spams their ranged agro generator ability. Mark rewards are based on party agro.

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Originally Posted by geekgirl101

That's not the way it's worded in the tooltip. The tooltip gives the impression that it behaves the same as provoke.

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Frog legs works by taking the highest enmity in the party and adding +1 to it. Meaning you need to follow up with something very high enmity, such as white wind hitting multiple people.
Provoke used to work the same way, but as part of their enmity changes to make tanking easier, they changed voke to be top enmity + additional enmity on top equaling a 2000-ish potency skill, which is also affected by tank stance.

However, frog legs never got the updated buff, meaning its still clunky to use comparatively. But yes, when in doubt, throw a white wind or two as long as your HP isn't abyssmal at the time of the cast. White wind hitting multiple people can generate absurd levels of aggro.

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Originally Posted by geekgirl101

That's not the way it's worded in the tooltip. The tooltip gives the impression that it behaves the same as provoke.

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Yes, this is also exactly how Provoke works.
Provoke doesn't give you an enmity lead, or at least, it doesn't give you a significant enmity lead, you need to generate additional Enmity to make that happen.
A tank who just uses Provoke will have aggro pulled off them after a single attack from another player.

For example. If another play has 1000 enmity on a target, and you have 0. If you use Provoke your enmity is set (not increased by any amount, set to a specific value) to 1100 enmity, to give you a slight lead. But then that other player uses an attack that connects and generates 200 enmity, giving them 1200 enmity and putting them back in the lead.
While that Provoke technically gave you a whopping 1100 enmity in a single move, it's not a enmity generating move, it's an enmity setting move.

Frog legs works similarly, except it may not give as much of a lead as Provoke. While my Provoke example set your enmity to 100 more than the next highest player, Frog legs might only set your enmity to 1 more than the next highest player.

Edit: Provoke obvious received a buff to increase it's initial enmity lead, which BLU spells didn't get.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

You should use a fast cast that gives you weave slots. This usually means either Sharpened Knife (highest potency) or Sonic Boom (lower potency but you can attack at range if needed.)

As others have said, you should be using White Wind to generate aggro. You will typically swiftcast a White Wind on the pull and this will lock you into the aggro lead. As long as you are weaving your Primal spells in between uses of Diamondback, Dragon Force, etc you should have no issues maintaining aggro. You do not need The Look.

You will generally not need two tanks for any content, though I think there are some raids that might use two tanks as an option. Getting in Blood Drains and Magic Hammer between Diamondback windows is typically enough to keep a single tank alive through almost anything. Avail can also be an option - it's effectively a reverse Cover (they take the damage for you.)

Note that you have absolutely no reason to use a tank morph for dungeons. You will typically run one healer and three DPS. The healer can go into Mighty Guard if the boss has powerful autoswings, but generally you can just Diamondback any tankbusters and be just fine. Normal mobs will die immediately to Ultravibration rotations. You might run Mighty Guard if you're doing a W2W but with four BLU, you can afford to just split each leg into two pulls.

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Oh, thank you! I'll try using those in my tank spec and see how it works.