Please consider how jobs play in dungeons when making adjustments

I understand the game is mostly balanced around savage raids, but I feel the lack of awareness on how the balance affects dungeons causes tensions between different jobs. It makes one job look stronger than others rather than balanced as they might seem in high end content. This is not something I think can be fixed by telling people to play high end content because then it creates an assumption that some jobs are only for 8-man content and should not be played in 4-man content.

I also find there’s a huge gap between dungeon and leveling experience versus 8-man content. A lot of how a job plays doesn’t factor in its gameplay outside of high-end content. Yet a lot of how players experience a job is through leveling and dungeons, and people talk about how jobs play in dungeons all the time, including high-end raiders. When leveling jobs, it’s very noticeable that how jobs play at lower levels aren’t given much consideration.

From the many comments I’ve read, people care about how jobs play in dungeons as much as in 8-man scenarios. I don’t see why we should just brush it off because it’s casual content and requires bare minimum skill to complete, especially when that is the content most players play.

Mostly because people will play a suboptimal class as long as it's not utterly bad or utterly clunky, if they like the aesthetic. NIN is pretty bad in 4-man content, it's still my main DPS when I gotta do dungeons.

Besides, if you balance for casual content, the bad side effects are gonna be much more dire, mostly because high end players are much more of a pain in the ass than casual players. Yes, they're far less numerous, and yes, FFXIV is popular because of its theme park thingy, ergo its casual content, but MMO devs need to focus on high end players. They might not be that big of a number, but I do think that number is underestimated, and that people like the idea they have harder content to look forward to. If Savage/Ultimate didn't exist, some people that won't ever set foot there wouldn't play, simply because hard content is an important part of any MMOs.

Every job is viable in every activity in the game.

What it comes down to is player perception.

Some people are just terrible at the game, and make jobs look terrible when they play them.

Take Dark Knight for example, in any content below level 70 they feel like absolute garbage, but are still just as viable as any other tanking job, specifically because that content is neither hard nor challenging in any way.

If at any point you are struggling in Normal dungeon content, then somebody clearly is not pulling their weight.

I dont think it really matters that much. people that talk about dungeons are only about how to pull the mob correctly as a tank, or keep using aoe, or dont stand on aoe. almost nobody care about job balance in dungeon.

if you think about it, dungeon is pretty similar to trial/raid.

I do agree that with the whole burst window thing, it's not very convenient when dungeon bosses jump around in the middle of it to do their mechanics.

But dungeons also don't have an enrage, so maybe it doesn't really matter.

It really does come down to skill and gear when in a dungeon. If you're worried about doing numbers or skipping stuff, chill. :cool:

Dungeons are so easy that job balance is far less relevant than player skill.

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Originally Posted by HyonaCookie

From the many comments I’ve read, people care about how jobs play in dungeons as much as in 8-man scenarios. I don’t see why we should just brush it off because it’s casual content and requires bare minimum skill to complete, especially when that is the content most players play.

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Because balance literally doesn't matter when people can clear by just spamming their basic combo and you can be randomly matched with players with 50 ilvl below yours. Who cares if <insert job> does underwhelming damage in dungeon? Learn how to play your job, get good gear you'll automatically do better than 99% of duty finder, no matter the party composition, no matter your job's perceived shortcomings. Any attempt at balance would be pointless with those parameters.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I do agree that with the whole burst window thing, it's not very convenient when dungeon bosses jump around in the middle of it to do their mechanics.

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Boss disappearing right in the middle of a burst window is an intended feature of the 2 min meta, not a bug (at least this is how the dev team sees it). They do it intentionally at all level of play.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Every job is viable in every activity in the game.

What it comes down to is player perception.

Some people are just terrible at the game, and make jobs look terrible when they play them.

Take Dark Knight for example, in any content below level 70 they feel like absolute garbage, but are still just as viable as any other tanking job, specifically because that content is neither hard nor challenging in any way.

If at any point you are struggling in Normal dungeon content, then somebody clearly is not pulling their weight.

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Disagree. The fact that there are dps jobs that don't get a basic AoE before level 20 (I'd say 15 IMHO) is a pretty glaring oversight.

The sub 50 job design in general is pretty bad.

The way they design jobs feels very outdated. It works well for balance and in savage content but at the cost of a neutered gameplay for so many jobs. Healers, tanks and some dps jobs like summoner and machinist suffer from it terribly.

The leveling experience is also quite bad for multiple jobs, and the whole gameplay at high level revolves around 2min burst windows.

I hope they'll at least revise some of their choices with the continued pestering of the community toward their current design philosophy (even though Yoshida keeps rejecting healers asking for better gameplay).

I'm not saying jobs should be completely balanced for dungeons, but I feel like by adding more healing to WAR, it is creating strife in dungeon content where WAR already had enough healing to make healers obsolete. Not only does it make healers feel unneeded, but it also makes other tanks look worse and a bad choice for taking into dungeons. I feel if it keeps going this way people will actively gatekeep tanks and tell people they shouldn't be playing any tanks except WAR in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by HyonaCookie

I'm not saying jobs should be completely balanced for dungeons, but I feel like by adding more healing to WAR, it is creating strife in dungeon content where WAR already had enough healing to make healers obsolete. Not only does it make healers feel unneeded, but it also makes other tanks look worse and a bad choice for taking into dungeons. I feel if it keeps going this way people will actively gatekeep tanks and tell people they shouldn't be playing any tanks except WAR in dungeons.

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Except duty finder doesnt care which tank you are. Anyone trying to kick non-war tanks from dungeon groups is quickly going to find themselves laughed out of the game if not reported for misuse of vote dismiss.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Except duty finder doesnt care which tank you are. Anyone trying to kick non-war tanks from dungeon groups is quickly going to find themselves laughed out of the game if not reported for misuse of vote dismiss.

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people seem to forget that the game is literally designed for literally any combo (assuming you get your hidden 5% buff of tank, healer, phys ranged, melee, and caster)

From MSQ to ultimate raids. Im not sure what perception here that WAR will render all other tanks obsolete. The content is very easily cleared by literally any tank, just that warrior is allowed to turn its brain off more easily.

Noone is going to leave a dungeon in a hissy fit because their random ex roul tank is playing PLD and not WAR