If Blue Mage Became A Full Caster DPS Job (Unlikely), Which Spells?

By which I mean, which spells do you think should be kept in its kit. Note that in this scenario you would be able to switch between the limited version of BLU and the full version of BLU.

It'd be nice if they actually tackled the "Job and spec" ideas with BLU if they do ever try to standardize BLU into a "FFXIV Job" so it retains its identity as being versatile.
Tank BLU, DPS BLU and Healer BLU would be amazing to play with.

Assuming the 'skill glamour' idea Ive mentioned before was implemented, ie: get base spells from questing, learn 'reskins' from mobs to retain the 'learn' aspect of it's identity, have special effects as 'Showmanship' effects or whatever, so they only apply in unsync and Carnivale. With that in mind:

basic filler:
Direct ST hit (Watercannon style), Line AOE hit (Glower), Conal hit (Flamethrower), Circle (ram's voice), targetted circle (choco meteor), the circle ones can double up as AOE filler too. Reason for the different shapes explained later.

total of 5 buttons here

Special damage stuff:
3 Primal skills, a 30s, 40s and 60s for the main 6 primals. OGCD gapcloser (reskins are Jkick or Flying Frenzy, etc).
Selfbuff and DOT. Whistle and Bristle reworked to work on both damage types, and be same potency, are now true reskins.
60s GCD with guaranteed crit/dhit(can be reskinned to Triple Trident, Rose of Destruction, Matra Magic, all do same total potency cos of guaranteed CDH. eg TT does 3X200p, RoD does 600p, MM does 12X50p, all are 600p total.)
Maybe a 2min that does massive damage, (can reskin to Nightbloom or the Sophia one)
LVL5Death changed to be big hit of damage (like 700p minimum), instakill effect moved to be unsync only (allows for easier glam farming from old raids!). reskins include ultravibration, launcher, etc.

8 buttons here

Utility and raidbuffs:
Offguard as 60s CD, increases damage done to target by the BLU (like Trick), Peculiar light as 2min, debuffs all enemies hit to take 5% more damage (all types), like AOE mug.
Libra, a part of BLU's damage rotation, does a bit of damage and dictates a shape of GCD spell that will do bonus damage for a while. This is the reason to use eg the Cone over the Line, or the Circle over the Direct ST hit.
White Wind as a 5min CD, restores HP equal to the BLU's current HP. Long CD makes it less exploitable, but could potentially see interesting interplay with a WHM, Bene the BLU and then they WW for a HP to 1 mechanic. AST has macrocosmos, so this is fine.
Cold Fog as a 1min selfCD, reduce damage taken by 20% for one hit. (can reskin as Diamondback, Chelonian Gate)

5 buttons here

other stuff:
Mighty Guard as a raidwide mit, 10% damage mitigation for the team and a shield of say 200p (works a little bit different from RDM's Barrier)
Moon Flute as a 2min selfbuff for big burst, doesn't pacify at end of duration (can reskin to other things like DragonForce)
Final Sting reworked to cost all of your MP instead of HP
Blood Drain reworked to restore a lot more MP, maybe 2000. This allows Final Sting as the final hit in raidbuffs, then a Blood Drain to get back some MP to keep casting, would be an optimization thing.
Angel Whisper, CD reduced to 1min, instant cast
Loom reworked to have more range, and instantcast OGCD.

6 buttons here

Total of 24 buttons. Personally I'd have wanted BLU to be a tank (get hit, learn skill is a common BLU learn method in other games), but now it's categorised as a dps, this is what I'd hope for. I could list how I'd match up every skill for each reskin set but... there's like 80 skills, I cannot be bothered. Maybe tomorrow

Blue Mage rather should be a Tank,
BLU has a Tank Stance
BLU has Invul
BLU's gimmick is to get hit
The Tank Symbol is also Blue.. and looking at Paladin, Holy Spirit, Holy Circle.. if that ain't cast spells!?
It kinda writes itself

The spells it should keep are: avail, transfusion, final sting, self-destruct and flying sardine. The only modification should be allowing transfusion to also work on enemies. This will carve a truly unique niche for it among not just the casters, but all members of the dps role.

Realistically it doesn't matter which spells are kept, as 2 expansions later half will have been both removed and readded and the others will have had animation upgrades that blind people in the neighbouring town. Debuffing and dots aren't really allowed for in the design of this game, so the quintessential blue mage spell (bad breath) is out. I suppose having elemental spells that upgrade into primals as you level could be an approach, but that's just new summoner.

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

Blue Mage rather should be a Tank,
BLU has a Tank Stance
BLU has Invul
BLU's gimmick is to get hit
The Tank Symbol is also Blue.. and looking at Paladin, Holy Spirit, Holy Circle.. if that ain't cast spells!?
It kinda writes itself

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A ranged tank would never be allowed in a game like this. This is a game that *rigidly* adheres to the holy trinity in raids.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

A ranged tank would never be allowed in a game like this. This is a game that *rigidly* adheres to the holy trinity in raids.

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Didn't stop PLD having a cast time on Holy Spirit under Req during SB. And while the cast time is gone now, it's not because the cast time was a bad idea per se, it was because while casting you can't block. A BLU that is a tank, but all of it's skills are cast time GCDs, would work fine, as proven by the fact that it can be a tank in an all-BLU party and it works fine. Having cast times on defensives like Diamondback can go though, that's annoying as hell.

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Originally Posted by Styrmwyda

By which I mean, which spells do you think should be kept in its kit. Note that in this scenario you would be able to switch between the limited version of BLU and the full version of BLU.

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All of them. Would prefer you could slot as many as you want and switch up your hotbars depending on the content you are doing.

A full version of BLU would have access to all their spells. BLU is currently the only job in the game that has different builds to use and does not benefit from becoming another limited job like the other 19 in the game as a streamlined mess.

And ironically has the best leveling experience in the game by virtue of not being locked out of any spells as they learn them unlike the other jobs via Level Sync.

BLU doesn't have this issue.

Wanting to streamline it goes against the idea of what the BLU is supposed to represent.

Honestly, there are a lot that would work fine in PvE. A lot of them amount to:

Single target
AOE
Single target with an AOE
oGCD (usually AOE)

There are quite a few BLU spells that can be seen as basically that. Well, that's how BLM and RDM work. Single target spells, AOE spells, mainly single target with an AOE (RDM finishers), and some oGCDs.

Blue additionally has a lot of tanking and healing spells that you would probably either not enable for PvE or leave as just kinda...there. Toad Oil, for example, on a DPS wouldn't be a horrible thing and would simply not get used much.

The main things that would have to be disabled are spell interactions (e.g. freeze + shatter), instant KO stuff (Missile, Level 5 Death), tanking taunts (Frog Legs, Sticky Tongue), things that knockback or draw-in enemies, and so on. While it may be allowed to have a basic heal like Pomcure or even possibly Angel Whisper (due to the cooldown), but its healing would LIKELY be toned down, so no White Wind or Gobskin and so on, and of course no near-invulns like Diamondback.

Gameplay would probably revolve around using different elements (some mechanic like next spell cast has +10% damage as long as it's not of the same elemental type as the prior two spells cast, stacks to 5 - something like that to encourage the player to kind of loop through their different elements to keep their damage boost up), using offensive CDs like Off-Guard or Peculiar Light (probably reworked as "boosts your single target / area of effect damage spells", respectively, though it could be a party utility like TrickMug, I suppose...but that MAY step on NIN's toes a bit since BLU already may have Raising utility, though if they two stacked...) and a DoT or two.

The balancing would probably tune it to do about a RDM's level of damage since it has similar (but weaker) Raise utility, but has some other party utility from Off-Guard (120 sec CD Vuln up on the enemy)

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I dunno if that's what people would WANT, but it wouldn't exactly be hard to DO. Just remove all kit interactions other than shifting through elements and remove all status effects, most heals, and all tanking abilities and it's basically a RDM without a melee phase with a little NIN utility on the side.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

A ranged tank would never be allowed in a game like this. This is a game that *rigidly* adheres to the holy trinity in raids.

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I mean, BLU has many melee ranged spells, such as Ravana's and Suzaku's. Wouldn't be a leap to make single target melee ranged spells.

Although I'd prefer a hybrid of physical and magical attacks personally.
Before we got BLU or GNB, I envisioned a Blue Magic Gunblade tank class. It would 'Draw' spells from enemies in job quests to learn them, and then Draw job gauge in battle to power those Blue Magic spells, as well as having 'Magic Ammo' for combo finisher spells. Thought it was pretty neat tbh, and it would have fulfilled the 'Mystic Knight' fantasy as well as a sword wielding knight with elemental spells.

The tank role really is the most rounded role. It has damage dealing skills (obviously) plus mitigation, debuffing, healing, and utility. It would have suited the eclectic range of BLU spells perfectly.

All that said, I don't have a problem with limited BLU as it is. I do have a slight issue with the range of content it can get into, I would like it to gain access to Deep Dungeons, and potentially Eureka/Bozja, and gain it's own Limited Job Roulette. But apart from that, it's alright. If it gained access to that content, it would be 100% fine by my book.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Before we got BLU or GNB, I envisioned a Blue Magic Gunblade tank class. It would 'Draw' spells from enemies in job quests to learn them, and then Draw job gauge in battle to power those Blue Magic spells, as well as having 'Magic Ammo' for combo finisher spells. Thought it was pretty neat tbh, and it would have fulfilled the 'Mystic Knight' fantasy as well as a sword wielding knight with elemental spells.

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Same on the gunblade, for me it would be as a (probably Garlean) magitek themed hi-tech tank that had an 'analysis' gauge, that allowed you to 'replicate via simulation' certain previously analyzed enemy techniques via combat with them. Thousand Needles, for example, would be simulated by projecting hard-light into tiny, impossibly thin needle shapes, and then firing the resulting projectiles. Bad Breath would be a synthetic chemical formula with a terrible odor and noxious effect when inhaled, rather than an organic thing like the actual version from morbols, etc

Owing to the ceruleum that powered the armor (idea was that since it's Garlean tech, it doesn't use aether in any way), and it's similarity to Blue Mages, Cerulean Knight seemed like a fitting name. Magitek Knight would also work

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

I could list how I'd match up every skill for each reskin set but... there's like 80 skills, I cannot be bothered. Maybe tomorrow

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Yes I was this bored (while macro crafting for new sets), behold:
https://i.gyazo.com/c43c12a3b4b38138...1f1ec6f460.png

https://i.gyazo.com/5e7ee7a858305fc3...7dc2c068bd.png

(open in new tab if they're too small to read)
Note, any skill, while having slightly different aesthetics, will do the same damage regardless of it's animation. For example, in the '60s Guaranteed Crit/DH GCD' section, we have Rose of Destruction, Triple Trident, and Matra Magic. While we might see 8 damage splats from Matra Magic, or 3 from Triple Trident, or just one from Rose, the damage values of adding those splats from Matra together would have equalled the splat of Rose, had Rose been the spell that was cast. Functionally, the damage behind the scenes is the same, it's just how that number is presented to the player that changes. Same goes for any other skill compared to it's counterparts in the category.

For gameplay, as I hastily outlined above, it'd be a fairly reactive and engaging gameplay style. You'd use your big damage stuff for your 2mins, pool stuff like the 40s OGCD charges so you can blast in 2min harder, but the gameplay loop of the 'filler' would be where the class keeps you on your toes. All of the singletarget, Circle, Cone, etc skills are equal potency. However, when you cast Martyn's Shortcoming-Seeking Scan (Libra), you get a buff for, let's say 5 spells. This buff grants a potency buff to one of those shapes, chosen at random. Thus, the gameplay is to react to that 'found weakness' and exploit it.

Also, all the default spells have cheesy Martyn branding plastered all over the names, because at the end of the day we're his walking advertisement. Also it kinda reminds me of Discworld somehow.

edit: spreadsheet has an error, Garuda and Ifrit would be 30s, one charge. Titan/Shiva/Ravana/Suzaku would be 40s, up to 3 charges

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Didn't stop PLD having a cast time on Holy Spirit under Req during SB. And while the cast time is gone now, it's not because the cast time was a bad idea per se, it was because while casting you can't block. A BLU that is a tank, but all of it's skills are cast time GCDs, would work fine, as proven by the fact that it can be a tank in an all-BLU party and it works fine. Having cast times on defensives like Diamondback can go though, that's annoying as hell.

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Having to memorize the fight to a much greater degree than regular tanks is part of what makes it fun to tank as BLU. I think Dragon Force should be oGCD as an oh shit button and for a little bit of versatility (same with Matra Magic and Angel's Snack) but the rest should have cast times.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

Having to memorize the fight to a much greater degree than regular tanks is part of what makes it fun to tank as BLU. I think Dragon Force should be oGCD as an oh shit button and for a little bit of versatility (same with Matra Magic and Angel's Snack) but the rest should have cast times.

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I agree with the part about memorization (and maybe that's something the haters don't care for). Tanking as BLU eventually got me to try out the other tanks. I don't think anything needs to become an OGCD. Swiftcast is your oh shit button, usually because you forgot something is coming up. :p

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Same on the gunblade, for me it would be as a (probably Garlean) magitek themed hi-tech tank that had an 'analysis' gauge, that allowed you to 'replicate via simulation' certain previously analyzed enemy techniques via combat with them. Thousand Needles, for example, would be simulated by projecting hard-light into tiny, impossibly thin needle shapes, and then firing the resulting projectiles. Bad Breath would be a synthetic chemical formula with a terrible odor and noxious effect when inhaled, rather than an organic thing like the actual version from morbols, etc

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Exactly. Specific mechanics aside, being a Garlean class meant they would have to steal magics from others, instead of using their own.
I think I also thought of Cerulean Knight!

All of them? If blue mage becomes a full job, and it should, it shouldn't follow the usual rules. Instead have templates, and have them require you have certain blue mage spells in order to enter into content with other players. In the Blue Mage book have four different categories: Solo, Healer, tank, and DPS. Then within those categories, have required types of spells. For tank, for example, require a single target taunt, an AoE taunt, a defensive stance, several aggro garners, and a couple of high damage abilities, then have several 'free' slots for flavor while disallowing anything that could be considered broken for tanks. DPS, a spammable cast, a couple of mid-tier damage dealing abilities, then a couple of long cooldown high damage skills, then the free slots. You get the idea, force them to have the correct kit if they want to que for content, then make a baseline of those skills easily acquired so casual Blue Mage players can acquire them without too many issues and after that, more dedicated players can choose to have different variants for flare and for some different but equally effective approaches to combat. Make bosses immune to the ridiculous stuff when que'ed up normal content.