New Alliance Raid is really undertuned

It's pretty fun, has some clever mechanics. But the bosses all have the durability of tissue paper. On my first run, the first boss died before we even had gained 2 bars of limit break gauge. I was so surprised I expected her to get up for a second round, but no that was it. Second boss only got to LB2, and then the final two bosses we got LB3, but they were about to die by the time we did. Final boss was at like 5% health.

I'm not convinced I even saw every attack from how fast they died, particularly the first boss. And this was day 1, it's only going to get faster and faster to kill from here. Please buff the bosses' health.

Seems they learned nothing from Agalia.

my first run was the opposite, people dieing left and right and one almost wipe. Took a long ass time.

It seemed fine to me. We had a much harder time with it then the 1st one. Maybe the health wasn't high, but the mechs were tough enough to keep us busy, and there was lots of death and a few wipes.

Still waiting for Alliance Raid (Savage). Game really needs multiple difficulties for all content.

Two runs so far. First one we wiped on Halone, and very nearly wiped on Althyk/Nymeia when he speeds up her knockback. Due to many deaths on all bosses, none of them went particularly fast.
Second run, no wipes, but very close again on 2nd and 3rd bosses, similarly many deaths meant fights took ages.

If the mechanics are particularly unforgiving, then the HP pools can't be too high or too many deaths make it impossible.

Remember, Alliance Raids are 'casual' content.

Congrats, you got a decent party, i died a good 10 times, not my fault but because my healers were dead on every mechanic so 1/3 of the raid was constantly dead.

wiped on althyk once in my first run... thats it. however even if its too easy for some people the problem isnt now... the problem will be in a few weeks. and it will get worse in 6.4-7.0. like aglaia it will age very poorly.
people going to get used to the mechanics, while the average gear is getting better which makes the mechanics weaker player cant do also less a problem. we will burn through these bosses so we'll have less time in there to dnjoy those awesomes visuals and amazing soundtracks... what a pity :(

It did feel undertuned. We also had 0 wipes and very little casualties on first clear.

I only did it once but first impression is that it did feel easier than usually. We had no wipes. There were a lot of deaths (including myself) but that is normal for day one clear.

Have played it about four times now (partly because I want the 'Dedicated to Moonlight' Orchestrion roll!) and have been fortunate enough to not have experienced a wipe thus far, but certainly enough 'deaths' in each instance I've played to suggest plenty of players don't find it easy. And that includes me.

This was way easier than the previous one, and if you did Bozja you will do this without any problems at all... The first boss for example needs more HP, i was in multiple times, but it just dies too fast, and if you get a good party, it's like not even there. I don't do savage and extreme, and I think it's easy, there are things in it that will give you a bit of a challenge for the first couple of times even if you don't play that good, but that is, or i just play too much Bozja and i think it's easy, but looking at the partys i was in so far, it went down way to fast to be the case.

Yeah, it felt too easy for sure.

It's not the worst thing - alliance raids aren't ever particularly hard - but I would have liked to see more of the mechanics. I feel like a lot of the bosses just flew by without understanding them.

It was easy because nothing in this raid is new. Everything they did was already shown in previous dungeons/trials.
I had a hard time at first, my alliance died a couple times each boss but after the first day all the random groups I'm going with now go through with very little issues.
It's not like it was in ARR or HW 24-man raids where you have completely new mechanics you have to learn and the bosses have a lot of health compared to the damage we were putting out.

Same. The visual and music are really good, but feel like the hp is tuning low and mechanic is too simple.

Alliance raids just feel like 24-man dungeons nowadays. Undertuned and lacking the lively chaos that such a large raid should have.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Have played it about four times now (partly because I want the 'Dedicated to Moonlight' Orchestrion roll!) and have been fortunate enough to not have experienced a wipe thus far, but certainly enough 'deaths' in each instance I've played to suggest plenty of players don't find it easy. And that includes me.

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The fact you haven't wiped despite "enough deaths" begs to differ. That means despite failing mechanics enough to kill people, the bosses still can't actually "win" and are little more than flashy animations.

I really dislike how afraid they are of wiping people in casual content. It isn't a big deal, especially not when the content if fresh. Weeping City and Dun Scaith are still beloved for a reason. Even Orbonne is liked despite its notoriety. The EXP of getting it back before the nerfs simply wasn't worthwhile. Don't get me wrong, I like the Twelve series but they just completely fall over. By 6.4, we're going to overpower Aglaia so much, it'll be laughable.

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Originally Posted by Stepjam

It's pretty fun, has some clever mechanics. But the bosses all have the durability of tissue paper. On my first run, the first boss died before we even had gained 2 bars of limit break gauge. I was so surprised I expected her to get up for a second round, but no that was it. Second boss only got to LB2, and then the final two bosses we got LB3, but they were about to die by the time we did. Final boss was at like 5% health.

I'm not convinced I even saw every attack from how fast they died, particularly the first boss. And this was day 1, it's only going to get faster and faster to kill from here. Please buff the bosses' health.

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This is because you're playing with the good/experienced players right now. Usually vets get their story done early and jump on the new content so they can start grinding those coins/tokens. Give it a few months, after most of the vets have their main gearsets augmented and start doing other things, and run with the undergeared/underdeveloped/inexperienced people that start trickling in by that point. I myself haven't done the raid yet, but if the bosses have low HP/Def that means the skin of the teeth runs that will inevitably happen later on will be more teeth and less skin.

Good I only force myself to do them 1x anyway so let them be easier tyvm.

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Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd

This is because you're playing with the good/experienced players right now. Usually vets get their story done early and jump on the new content so they can start grinding those coins/tokens. Give it a few months, after most of the vets have their main gearsets augmented and start doing other things, and run with the undergeared/underdeveloped/inexperienced people that start trickling in by that point. I myself haven't done the raid yet, but if the bosses have low HP/Def that means the skin of the teeth runs that will inevitably happen later on will be more teeth and less skin.

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Not really, even without the veteran raiders, raids get progressively easier and easier as weeks go by because people in general get better gear and more accustomed to what happens during fights.

Happened last raid, happened with the pandaemonium raids, happened with the eden and nier ones too.

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Originally Posted by Llynethil

Not really, even without the veteran raiders, raids get progressively easier and easier as weeks go by because people in general get better gear and more accustomed to what happens during fights.

Happened last raid, happened with the pandaemonium raids, happened with the eden and nier ones too.

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Exactly, rarely have an issue in Nier raids or Ivalice raids. If anything, I see more deaths in the recent raids due to laziness from "vets" twiddling their thumbs at the not so engaging encounters, only here for some alt loot. Given how easy the raids are it's not surprising.

I thought alliance raids are positioned as something that people can just go in and have fun. It is not supposed to be challenging content. This was known all the way back when the first alliance raid was introduced. I think it's tuned perfectly.

You're not supposed to wipe to mistakes in alliance raids. It's supposed to be content that can be easily and leisurely done. If you want things that can wipe you or require you to pay attention to both the mechanics and your rotation and perform at your best, you're looking at the wrong content.

While yes its not meant to be teeth grinding hard they should not be target dummies either, the fights are so undertuned you dont even see LB 3 and not even LB 2 on certain ones.
The entire thing feels just really short, besides the "haha now in reverse" on our first pull i've yet to see a single wipe.

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Originally Posted by Voidedge_Ragna

While yes its not meant to be teeth grinding hard they should not be target dummies either, the fights are so undertuned you dont even see LB 3 and not even LB 2 on certain ones.
The entire thing feels just really short, besides the "haha now in reverse" on our first pull i've yet to see a single wipe.

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I see people brining up wipes constantly, but the content is supposed to be easy, it's supposed to be leisure fun, you're not supposed to wipe. At least that's how I understand as the purpose of even having these alliance raids: to just have some light-hearted fun with a bunch of people.

I suppose I don't mind tuning it up a little. Just off the top of my head:

• Crystal Tower: LotA and ST are so severely undertuned nowadays it's become standard to skip most mechanics that can be skipped in there now. WoD is still good entertainment sometimes.
• Mhach: get it very infrequently and thought it not really memorable, but I do remember feeling the Diabolos fight to be too boringly long.
• Ivalice: packed with mechanics and I never mind getting that place.
• YoRHa: I love Nier:Automata so I'm biased, but I feel the tuning here is perfect.

Now that I think back, yeah the Myths alliance raids are undertuned compared to the previous expansions. Although I still do think it's not necessarily a bad thing. At least it's not Crystal Tower undertuned. CT really could use an overhaul.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

I see people brining up wipes constantly, but the content is supposed to be easy, it's supposed to be leisure fun, you're not supposed to wipe. At least that's how I understand as the purpose of even having these alliance raids: to just have some light-hearted fun with a bunch of people.

I suppose I don't mind tuning it up a little. Just off the top of my head:

• Crystal Tower: LotA and ST are so severely undertuned nowadays it's become standard to skip most mechanics that can be skipped in there now. WoD is still good entertainment sometimes.
• Mhach: get it very infrequently and thought it not really memorable, but I do remember feeling the Diabolos fight to be too boringly long.
• Ivalice: packed with mechanics and I never mind getting that place.
• YoRHa: I love Nier:Automata so I'm biased, but I feel the tuning here is perfect.

Now that I think back, yeah the Myths alliance raids are undertuned compared to the previous expansions. Although I still do think it's not necessarily a bad thing. At least it's not Crystal Tower undertuned. CT really could use an overhaul.

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This didn't used to be the case. Months into its lifecycle and Ozma would still wipe groups who didn't know his mechanics. Thunder God Cid was notorious for causing no small amount of wipes. Just because the content is easy and meant to be beatable doesn't mean we can't see the occasional wipe if people aren't respecting mechanics. The absence of said wipes robs these fights of any intention. Menphina is so comically undertuned you won't even see LB3 and she does practically nothing remotely threatening. Even Halone, the hardest of the four, does little more than out/in and cleaves. It's all flash and little substance. Now I still enjoy the fights for what they are but having played since HW, I can't deny it being a very noticeable downgrade from the older 24 mans.

Just to address your listing of each raid series:

• Crystal Tower: This is less to do with undertuning and more them syncing us to i130 when the raids themselves are i50, i70 and i90, respectively. We're comically overpowered for no real reason. In the case of LotA, we're nearly triple the level of the bosses.
• Mhach: As noted, before the inevitable power creep, Weeping City and Dun Scaith were notorious for causing wipes, in particular Forgall, Ozma and Diabolos. Scathach was no slouch either. Nowadays, the lack of balance adjustments in lower level content has rendered all of these fights a breeze.
• Ivalice: While they've all be subject to similar power creep, Ridorana still holds up. Orbonne, specifically Thunder God Cid, was infamous causing mass wipes. Sadly, both Echo and a straight nerf has reduced his fight to being a glorified target dummy. He barely even does damage nowadays.
• YoRHa: I'd have to disagree. Nier raids on the whole fight like damage sponges. I liked several fights from the series but they didn't wow me. Personal opinion, of course. Red Girl is the clear winner, and really the only boss of the whole series with some bite.

Myth is arguably on the same level as YoRHa, which was outright stated to be intentionally undertuned due to Nier fans possibly being new to the game. Both are a sharp decline from Mhach and Ivalice in terms of difficulty.

Yeah, these raids are severely undertuned in my opinion. The bosses spend more time feeding you appetisers instead of giving you the main course (and when they do, they're almost dead). Nald'thal is extremely guilty of this, especially now. Would not be surprised if we skip the scales completely in 6.4-5 (yesterday the alliance got him down to 12% before he started the scales phase). If SE don't want the bosses to be damage sponges, then maybe they should have them "get serious" between 50-60%HP.

Ivalice is where SE peaked with alliance raids imo.

I also want to add that even at minimum ilevel, the Crystal Tower raids are undertuned. LotA used to require 6 tanks, but now has 3 (so more DPS = more damage), Syrcus Tower, even at min-ilvl, can still have you skip Scylla and Glasya's main mechanics due to potency changes in Job actions (Scylla's Petrifaction + add phase, Glasya's outside platforms. Pretty sure this was possible even in 2.3, when it came out). WoD is mostly fine, though Cerberus dies pretty fast and Cloud of Darkness was a disappointing fight on release as she spent more time inhaling clouds than doing actual damage (Angry Mayo is the hardest fight in the CT raids overall).

This raid is so undertuned, it's got people requesting a "savage/extreme" level 24-man raid. I've never seen the idea suggested before, let alone so often. That's just how baby-mode this raid is. They messed up IMO.