Be honest, Devs, did you forget?

Did you forget Keepers of the Moon exist? It's okay, I get it. Seekers "Sister, when is your next coupling?" of the Sun are more interesting because harems are sexy. But you did make a second clan on the character creation screen (even if it was an afterthought?) and some of us really enjoy the idea of moon-worshipping night huntresses! Sadly, we rarely see them represented in game, and when we do they often inexplicably have Seeker names. I would say it's a case of a blend of cultures, but the frequency of the inverse is much, much lower.

We went to the seat of their goddess, and not one Scion had an offhand scholarly remark on how that might be seen by a group of people (several cultures, really) who revere it. I do, however, get that Nashu might not have realized where she was, because she's Nashu and I adore her for that.

But, um, there's this other clan on the character select screen. Just pointing that out.






Also, where is Menphina's gd frying pan????????

Sadly, the game's always ended up neglecting one of the clans for each race: Keepers, Duskwight and Veena get the worst of it (and I assume hrothgar representation is pretty tilted but I'm not sure in which direction because I don't know the race well enough), but the Hellsguard are pretty bad, the Plainsfolk have very few prominent NPCs. The only races that I think have both clans fairly well-represented are the hyur and au ra, and even that wasn't true at first; raen were pretty under-represented until Endwalker, and Highlanders was actually by-development shafted in the early days (no female Highlanders) in a way that they didn't overcome until about Stormblood.

With a couple though, including the Keepers, maybe it's just that they don't hold their cultural identity super highly. Sure, a lot of the Seekers still hold their whole thing very closely, but for all we know maybe the Keepers aren't actually that heavy on the whole moon thing. Similarly, maybe the Plainsfolk don't consider the fact they're Plainsfolk very important, and maybe the Veena just aren't as attached to their cultural lands as the Rava. Still doesn't really excuse the Duskwight, since their history actually IS ostensibly culturally important even if we barely ever talk about it, and with the Keepers it'd be really nice to actually get a Keeper to actually talk about it, but yeah; it's entirely possible that we care more about this than the clan themselves.

EDIT: In fact, it wouldn't even be unprecedented; we don't really know what 'Midlander culture' is, since they're generally pretty light on caring about it.

Oh, for sure we care more. Players are always going to care more about these things, and I totally understand that they have a lot of ground to cover, so going back to old content to flesh it out isn't going to be their priority. This rant is, in part, facetious. (And in part a reaction to the reveal of a certain model of a goddess that didn't live up to my admittedly astronomical expectations. lol)

Though in the single questline that I cling to like a barnacle, the Moogle Mail one, the Keepers there seem to imply they really do care about their traditional ways. Then again that questline also contends with the Coeurl Claw clan and how their ways are considered aberrant. The Coeurl Claws are also the only semblance of a "Keeper" settlement we have in game. There's also a levequest where the Wailers request materials for face paint for their Keeper members, as they consider it important to have on in the case of their possible death in the line of duty. So the importance is there, it's just... strangely ignored past ARR in a way that I feel heavily favors the other clan.

Who knows. Maybe when we finally reach Meracydia we'll find a thriving and advanced Keeper civilization. lmfao

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Originally Posted by NakoVesh

Oh, for sure we care more. Players are always going to care more about these things, and I totally understand that they have a lot of ground to cover, so going back to old content to flesh it out isn't going to be their priority. This rant is, in part, facetious. (And in part a reaction to the reveal of a certain model of a goddess that didn't live up to my admittedly astronomical expectations. lol)

Though in the single questline that I cling to like a barnacle, the Moogle Mail one, the Keepers there seem to imply they really do care about their traditional ways. Then again that questline also contends with the Coeurl Claw clan and how their ways are considered aberrant. The Coeurl Claws are also the only semblance of a "Keeper" settlement we have in game. There's also a levequest where the Wailers request materials for face paint for their Keeper members, as they consider it important to have on in the case of their possible death in the line of duty. So the importance is there, it's just... strangely ignored past ARR in a way that I feel heavily favors the other clan.

Who knows. Maybe when we finally reach Meracydia we'll find a thriving and advanced Keeper civilization. lmfao

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That could be a big part of it actually. The ones in Eorzea ancestors all fled their homeland instead of sticking it out. Their culture would be one where adapting to new stuff instead of holding true to your ways would be much more acceptable. Would be very interesting to get to Meracydia and find out the Miqote there look down on the ones that abandoned their lands.

Well, my statement on Meracydia was mostly a joke because peoples fleeing from Meracydia happened so long ago that to say Miqo'te are "from" there is almost meaningless. The Allagans made much of Meracydia's land uninhabitable after the natives had to raise their own gods in an attempt to fight them off. Besides, it seems the Allagans, in part, followed them, chasing them from where they settled in Eorzea and driving them north to present day Ilsabard where some still reside today. So that's three mass migrations over a very long, tumultuous series of events.

That would be the RL equivalent of the present day peoples of Iraq being mad at everyone else for migrating out of Sumer, just to put some context to the scope of time we're talking about here. lol

Dont think Seekers are more common sight because of sexy, but because they've spread teensy bit wider. Thanalan, Vylbrand, Gyr Abania, Ilsabard, kinda.

Meanwhile Keepers stay in the Twelveswood, those who are friendly with Gridania and those who have beef with it alike. MSQ hasn't taken us there too much lately.
But it took us to Sharlayan where we see ok number of Keeper expats and students - buut then again Sharlayan got every race as expats and students.

Since we are gonna mess with the Thirteenth and Void and stuff soon, maybe, Amdapor might, maybe, give us excuse to at least run through South Shrouds. Sigh.

Or wait for Meracydia. Maybe they could give us some pan-miqo'te lore from there, but i ain't holding my breath.

The whole Gridania region has been pretty neglected as far as major development goes.

Ul'dah was a major focus of 2.X and got even more with 4.X along with Ala Mhigo. Limsa Lominsa got the trail end of 5.X. Ishgard got all of 3.X and even the end of 2.X.

Gridania hasn't been the focus for basically anything. We got a brief bit during 3.X, but then promptly went right back to Dravania.

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Originally Posted by Annana

Gridania hasn't been the focus for basically anything. We got a brief bit during 3.X, but then promptly went right back to Dravania.

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There were still quite a lot of quests that took place in Gridania in the original ARR 2.0. We then had to come back to it for Ramuh and Good King Moogle Mog in the ARR patches. A decent chunk of the end of the post-Heavensward MSQ was based in Gridania when dealing with the Griffins, Baelsar's Wall, Shinryu, the death of a Scion that had been in the game since 1.0, and the finding and releasing of Omega. The Fringes west of the river are also ex-Gridanian lands that had Gridanian citizens stuck on the wrong side of the wall when it went up. Their story gets involved in a series of side quests with a Keeper Miqo'te NPC that leads to Black Rose, the instigator of the entire Shadowbringers expansion. We come back to the Lotus Stand every now and then for important meetings as well.

Up until now the only Deep Dungeon in Eorzea was located in the Shroud, which unfortunately did not have as much Duskwight lore and involvement that it should have had. Gridania has more dungeons than any other city-state in the world except for Limsa Lominsa if you don't count Castrum and Praetorium as being "Ul'Dah". One of those dungeons had much further reaching consequences than many other dungeons of the same time period because it introduced Diabolos, who ended up coming back multiple times in other questlines.

But Gridania does miss out a lot in the narrative compared to the other city states due to its isolationism that is enforced by very powerful beings which leads to it not being very important in the geopolitical realm. Much more so when Ala Mhigo is liberated and it is no longer the frontier of the free world. Limsa Lominsa is a port city with connections as far reaching as the New World in the west, and Kugane in the east. In 1.0 lore, it traded with tribes in Meracydia. Ul'dah is the richest and likely most populated and powerful city in Eorzea. Unfortunately Gridania just doesn't have anything exciting going on because not even NPCs go there and it's effectively meaningless wilderness that maintains just loose connections to its neighbors beyond joining together for war. If SE wants to write new content with new places, Limsa Lominsa, Ul'dah, and Ala Mhigo are much more obvious starting points.

One hope I have for 7.0 is a return to Eorzea in some fashion and an excuse to explore more of the realm we're from and where it all started. There is an entire missing zone of the Shroud that was devastated from the Calamity and hasn't returned to the game since 1.0. It would be nice if it didn't go forgotten and could have its own content around it that somehow also incorporated Keepers and Duskwights.

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Originally Posted by Annana

The whole Gridania region has been pretty neglected as far as major development goes.

Ul'dah was a major focus of 2.X and got even more with 4.X along with Ala Mhigo. Limsa Lominsa got the trail end of 5.X. Ishgard got all of 3.X and even the end of 2.X.

Gridania hasn't been the focus for basically anything. We got a brief bit during 3.X, but then promptly went right back to Dravania.

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It was a bit of a disappointment that the Gridania rolequest story was about the elementals. Could have been a moment to tackle all the racism the duskwights and keepers receive in lore. Also I don't think any players really LIKE the Elementals, so it was a bit frustrating that the story basically ended with continuing to work along side them.

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Originally Posted by Stepjam

It was a bit of a disappointment that the Gridania rolequest story was about the elementals. Could have been a moment to tackle all the racism the duskwights and keepers receive in lore. Also I don't think any players really LIKE the Elementals, so it was a bit frustrating that the story basically ended with continuing to work along side them.

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Not to mention things like duskwights still living primarily underground

I kinda hope that 7.0 isn't a new continent, but rather an expansion of all of aldenard. Let's go to albathia's spine and see the volcanic hel'sgard homeland. Let's go into Madeline caverns und we r the 12swood. Let's see what's past that closed north gridanian gate! What about the giant spiky crystal think in LA noseca that we can fly over now but lore I'd no one's ever returned from inside of?

Eorzea has a ton of mysteries left in it's own borders! Not to mention aldenard proper and othard!

I agree with the sentiment of the thread, but please, please put the actual subject of a thread in the title. Not just a clickbaity nothing rant at the devs for forgetting "something".

Call the thread "Neglect of Moon Keeper lore" and rant at the devs inside if you like (not that they'll respond), but make the thread purpose clear from the title so it can be found in the list of topics.

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Originally Posted by shadowclasper

Not to mention things like duskwights still living primarily underground

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Actually that's not really clear. We know the Duskwight were primarily underground for a good while, largely by choice, but we've never seen nor heard from any Duskwight that still live there. Similarly, we've never heard from any of the Duskwight we have met that there's nobody down there.

The Duskwight are still discriminated against pretty hard and painted as a bunch of bandits, so it's really nasty no matter what, but it's unclear if anyone's still living in their ancestral Gelmorra or not. (I think the roleplaying community tend to go by 'there's still conservative families down there', but that's more just community-accepted canon than it is actual stated fact.)

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Actually that's not really clear. We know the Duskwight were primarily underground for a good while, largely by choice, but we've never seen nor heard from any Duskwight that still live there. Similarly, we've never heard from any of the Duskwight we have met that there's nobody down there.

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A lore panel interview “Between 2 Fernes 2” from 2017 shed a little light on this and the animosity between Wildwoods and Duskwights. Gelmorra is mostly abandoned ruins except for the bits that have been repurposed like Tam-Tara, Toto-Rak, and Mun-Tuy.

When the Hyur and most of the Elezen left Gelmorra to create Gridania, the Elezen left behind were stuck with an underground city that required more maintenance than the remaining population could keep up with or supply with food and they were forced to abandon it and are still upset about it ever since.


This is reinforced by a pair of Duskwight NPCs out in the Shroud at a dig site at Issom-Har. One talks about bringing Gelmorra to its former glory to be a home for Duskwight again, as if it isn’t now. In a side quest, the other discusses the importance to Duskwight about learning more where her ancestors once lived. Neither are expecting to go down there to visit cousin Reauxbert munching on Mun-Tuy beans.


I’m still confused how a little extra time in the underground suddenly creates a different race and makes them blue, but Fantasy I guess.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I’m still confused how a little extra time in the underground suddenly creates a different race and makes them blue, but Fantasy I guess.

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My understanding is that they once looked the same but phenotypical differences popped up once the populations separated, same way moderate differences in skin coloration, bone structure, etc popped up in humans even within the same latitudes band. Also, aetheric nonsense obviously has an outsized impact on evolution and phenotype expression otherwise there's no real way to explain how dunefolk have an entire extra organ in their eyes

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

A lore panel interview “Between 2 Fernes 2” from 2017 shed a little light on this and the animosity between Wildwoods and Duskwights. Gelmorra is mostly abandoned ruins except for the bits that have been repurposed like Tam-Tara, Toto-Rak, and Mun-Tuy.

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I admit, this is the thing that really bugs me about FFXIV lore. Sometimes REALLY useful information about a specific subject that we couldn't have just intuited from everything else we have only has one source, and it's 'a single panel at a convention from five years ago that by all rights you have no reason to believe would have this sort of information'. This is far from the only time I've hit something like this, and it's annoying every time.

At least it's never about something super important, though; as much as I wish otherwise, Gelmorra's a goddamn footnote. This isn't a problem that comes up about stuff like the Ascians or Sharlayan, all the info you could possibly need about them is laid out in the game and the Encyclopedia Eorzea.


And honestly, I don't really get too bothered by the notion that an entire phenotypically different ethnicity cropped up over a few hundred years, just because it's kinda treated as nebulously 'long' and there's been much weirder fantasy nonsense. It's not even all that egregious, since elezen are probably the race with the fewest differences between their subraces; as far as the character creator goes it's basically just a different pool of available skin tones (with some overlap) and I think a higher average ear size. My character is damn near identical to Enie (the Skybuilder's Scrip vendor in the Firmament) outside of hair, eye and lip color, despite Enie being Wildwood and my character being Duskwight. Duskwight aren't actually THAT different, I could totally buy that they're just the result of a half-dozen generations of breeding in different populations and environments.

They also have different ear clips. Not that is much of a difference. I want to say the Duskwight we meet during the Wyrlet storyline didn't imply they weren't living underground. Just on the wrong side of the wall.

A real problem with the information about the current state of Gelmorra isn't that we don't have it, but that we have conflicting accounts. Amid these references indicating Gelmorra is abandoned, there are occasional ones indicating that they are still following that way of life today – so if not in Gelmorra, then where?

Also, the fact that the clarification only comes from this one lore panel years ago leaves it vulnerable to being rewritten in future, especially if Koji is busy with other projects (and depending on who else knows that version of the explanation.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I’m still confused how a little extra time in the underground suddenly creates a different race and makes them blue, but Fantasy I guess.

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A curious little detail (which I think I got pointed to by a thread here a while back), whether intentional or not by the devs, is that there is an actual condition where exposure to silver particles can turn people's skin blue-grey – and silver is mined in the Black Shroud, right where we find the two "wild-dwelling" populations with blue-grey skin colour options.

But could just as easily put it down to magic and ambient elemental influences, or something.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

They also have different ear clips. Not that is much of a difference.

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Actually, only Wildwoods get the fancy ear clasps while Duskwights get their racial tattoos as the equivalent option (with placement and colour choice).

Female Duskwights do get a single option for ear clasps in the "additional options" menu but with no customisation.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Actually, only Wildwoods get the fancy ear clasps while Duskwights get their racial tattoos as the equivalent option (with placement and colour choice).

Female Duskwights do get a single option for ear clasps in the "additional options" menu but with no customisation.

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So it kinda just lends towards the notion that Duskwight are probably more culturally different than they are biologically, which tracks for their general story (on both sides of it). They aren't THAT different when you're actually looking at them, but they have entirely different cultural signifiers and possibly standards of beauty. That, combined with a history that's recent enough for families to probably have actual stories about the split, makes for a pretty reasonable explanation for why they're a pretty discriminated-against minority even now. Their story isn't too far from some First Nations people around the world in a lot of regards, especially when you remember that Gelmorra was essentially their ancestral lands.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

A real problem with the information about the current state of Gelmorra isn't that we don't have it, but that we have conflicting accounts. Amid these references indicating Gelmorra is abandoned, there are occasional ones indicating that they are still following that way of life today – so if not in Gelmorra, then where?

Also, the fact that the clarification only comes from this one lore panel years ago leaves it vulnerable to being rewritten in future, especially if Koji is busy with other projects (and depending on who else knows that version of the explanation.

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Considering there's dialogue in-game from those 2 NPCs I mentioned that supports Gelmorra being a completely abandoned ruin with no Duskwights living in it, the lore was probably originally written by Oda and repeated at the lore panel by Koji, instead of something made up on the fly. So that in itself lends it some staying power.

I just picked up my copy of EE1 and checked on the description of the Duskwight and it does say that some stayed in Gelmorra and some left to "new subterranean sanctums" and that does make sense, since they're still not a part of Gridania's contract with the Elementals. The ones who stayed in Gelmorra must have eventually left too for modern Duskwight to consider it abandoned. Elsewhere, the EE refers to Gelmorra as being nothing more than ruins and I feel like I remember an NPC in Gridania even mention that at least some of the ruins are being destroyed on the orders of the Elementals. But there are more than enough caves in the area for Duskwight to continue living in and they must've just scattered to separate, isolated cave systems. I guess that would account for their continued adaptation to being underground as well.