Remove 3rd place from Frontline

In pvp there is only you win or lose, remove 3rd place entirely from the system.

So you come in second, also reduce the xp and marks by 80% or something down those lines.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

In pvp there is only you win or lose, remove 3rd place entirely from the system.

So you come in second, also reduce the xp and marks by 80% or something down those lines.

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Nah

- SE Most likely

Do you want to kill PvP? Because that is how you would help kill PvP.

Its frontlines...it aint that serious.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Its frontlines...it aint that serious.

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I love this argument. If I am playing a game against other people I want to win. End of story. Although the OP may be a bit much I agree with the sentiment 100%.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

I love this argument. If I am playing a game against other people I want to win. End of story. Although the OP may be a bit much I agree with the sentiment 100%.

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Sentiment and logic dont mix well. You may want to encourage to win but killing off exp gain for losing (because there will be losers obviously) is such a bad move that itll kill off frontlines.

Nobody wants to risk having their time wasted

3 teams it only makes sense one will win and the two others will come in 2nd and 3rd. There is no problem with this at all.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Sentiment and logic dont mix well. You may want to encourage to win but killing off exp gain for losing (because there will be losers obviously) is such a bad move that itll kill off frontlines.

Nobody wants to risk having their time wasted

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Yeah, it's bad enough chasing the mounts and having time wasted. There's no need to punish people further for something that's not their fault.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

I love this argument. If I am playing a game against other people I want to win. End of story. Although the OP may be a bit much I agree with the sentiment 100%.

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Then play the mode where your direct play can have an impact? Ya know, the one with a competitive queue? Maybe then the queue wouldn't die so quickly, but realistically people want to "win" but to do so with minimal effort. Expecting a casual mode like frontlines where there are 24 players on your team running around to coordinate well is a pretty wild pipe dream in a purely pug environment (make a premade if you want consistency). You'll sometimes get people to pay attention to chat pings, but a mode with 72 players is going to have an extremely wild mix of skill levels. Punishing players in a casual mode for coming in 3rd place is more likely to make them either not queue or go off somewhere and screw around even more in the match when they realize they wont get 1st or 2nd place. Its going to have the opposite of what either you or OP want.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Sentiment and logic dont mix well. You may want to encourage to win but killing off exp gain for losing (because there will be losers obviously) is such a bad move that itll kill off frontlines.

Nobody wants to risk having their time wasted

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I'm guessing it's the notion that if you have nothing to gain from losing, people would put more effort into actually trying to win instead of settling for mediocrity. In itself, it's a risky idea, but in this game, which is known to not have much of a PvP scene...yeah, it's definitely bad.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Then play the mode where your direct play can have an impact? Ya know, the one with a competitive queue? Maybe then the queue wouldn't die so quickly, but realistically people want to "win" but to do so with minimal effort. Expecting a casual mode like frontlines where there are 24 players on your team running around to coordinate well is a pretty wild pipe dream in a purely pug environment (make a premade if you want consistency). You'll sometimes get people to pay attention to chat pings, but a mode with 72 players is going to have an extremely wild mix of skill levels. Punishing players in a casual mode for coming in 3rd place is more likely to make them either not queue or go off somewhere and screw around even more in the match when they realize they wont get 1st or 2nd place. Its going to have the opposite of what either you or OP want.

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I don't expect anything will change. I would like to see something change but I assume things will continue as they have since frontline was added to the game. I don't personally enjoy CC so that isn't an option for me. I will continue to queue regardless is the point. I just added my 2 cents to the discussion.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Yeah, it's bad enough chasing the mounts and having time wasted. There's no need to punish people further for something that's not their fault.

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Gosh, agreed. Getting that Seal Rock chestpiece is probably never going to happen because that place is just so miserable as is, please don't make things worse ._.

But thats my place :(......

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

In pvp there is only you win or lose, remove 3rd place entirely from the system.

So you come in second, also reduce the xp and marks by 80% or something down those lines.

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Do you know how death Frontline was before it became a viable mean of lvling? It was originally similar to what you said at one time, and you would be lucky if the queue pop in less than 15min, and it usually took 30min or more. So long queue time + shit reward = it was dead and then it was buried. There are a reason why the reward is buff to what it is now.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

3 teams it only makes sense one will win and the two others will come in 2nd and 3rd. There is no problem with this at all.

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I think people have this mistaken assumption that "I kept losing because people are not fighting to win" and thus they think pushing people to win will somehow improve their chance ... But like ... it's simply a statistic issue regardless of how others are playing. If a person claim they keep losing due to their teammate not playing hard enough or just there for the daily EXP, I would ask if they're realize the queue are random, which mean. If you team doesn't want to play to win, than there is an equal likely chance the 2 other teams also consist of the same type of players.

Like every bad or problem you perceive with your team also apply to the other team. For those who think "lazy" players is a problem, I should remind you that's a problem that both work for you as much as against you.

I had played around thousand of matches, and looking at the statistic it's really is a 1:1:1 ratio between 1st, 2nd, 3rd place.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

I'm guessing it's the notion that if you have nothing to gain from losing, people would put more effort into actually trying to win instead of settling for mediocrity. In itself, it's a risky idea, but in this game, which is known to not have much of a PvP scene...yeah, it's definitely bad.

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Frontlines was outright dead before they added exp rewards. It picked up slightly for the garo event, but outside of that? You could be in the queue for literally 3 or 4 hours and it would never pop.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Frontlines was outright dead before they added exp rewards. It picked up slightly for the garo event, but outside of that? You could be in the queue for literally 3 or 4 hours and it would never pop.

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PvP is actually quite good now. It isn't perfect but the changes that came with Endwalker vastly improved the experience. Queues for frontlines on established DC's are 5m from reset till 3 am EST.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

In pvp there is only you win or lose, remove 3rd place entirely from the system.

So you come in second, also reduce the xp and marks by 80% or something down those lines.

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And people wonder why dedicated pvpers are generally hated by literally everyone else.

Seriously, you hardcore pvp types (the same guys who want stuff like looting players you kill in other games) never understand why your ideas would kill the very thing you supposedly enjoy. Folks here at least have outlined already how dumb this idea is but it's always astounding how blind folks can be all cause they want to boost their ego via 'punishing' losers.

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Originally Posted by shadowclasper

And people wonder why dedicated pvpers are generally hated by literally everyone else.

Seriously, you hardcore pvp types (the same guys who want stuff like looting players you kill in other games) never understand why your ideas would kill the very thing you supposedly enjoy. Folks here at least have outlined already how dumb this idea is but it's always astounding how blind folks can be all cause they want to boost their ego via 'punishing' losers.

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You don't have to punish a loser but why does said loser deserve a reward? I know we are in the give a trophy to the loser era but I find it pathetic.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

3 teams it only makes sense one will win and the two others will come in 2nd and 3rd. There is no problem with this at all.

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Absolutely no...

In pvp there is two things you win... or you lose...

Is that difficult to understand?

And also I would not mind to turn it all down to 16v16v16 or 8v8v8 instead if that mean the freeloaders vanish from gameplay due to severe reduced rewards for not winning.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

PvP is actually quite good now. It isn't perfect but the changes that came with Endwalker vastly improved the experience. Queues for frontlines on established DC's are 5m from reset till 3 am EST.

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Yes *now* but that is only because of the reward changes. If they never added exp rewards to the frontlines roulette it would still be a completely dead queue regardless of gameplay changes. The majority of people that play XIV simply don't like pvp and only queue into frontlines for an easy half a bar of exp.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Yes *now* but that is only because of the reward changes. If they never added exp rewards to the frontlines roulette it would still be a completely dead queue regardless of gameplay changes. The majority of people that play XIV simply don't like pvp and only queue into frontlines for an easy half a bar of exp.

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and braindead moogle tomes

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Absolutely no...

In pvp there is two things you win... or you lose...

Is that difficult to understand?

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Who made you king to decide that?

Is that difficult to understand people don't agree with you?

This could actually work out really well. Teams that fall behind would have players drop out. Winning team would quickly steam roll and end the match faster that these drawn out painful matches we have now.

Fully support.

People act like no one PvPed before exp was added. We had more pops with no exp and 24 mans vs 72 mans. Instead of asking to remove third place, should ask for them to tweak it down to two teams. If they reworked frontlines to match rival wings they could add rival wings into the roulette. That makes so much more sense then punishing some "random" team.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

You don't have to punish a loser but why does said loser deserve a reward? I know we are in the give a trophy to the loser era but I find it pathetic.

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Because the losers are the content in pvp. In the same way the ai monsters in dungeons are the content. You want people to actually PARTICIPATE do you can play at all.

THAT IS WHY YOU GIVE THEM JUST ENOUGH OF A REWARD JUST FOR SHOWING UP SO THE RISK OF LOSING ISN'T SO BIG THAT THEY DON'T SHOW UP AT ALL.

If you don't throw them a bone you spend 5 hours waiting for the roulette to fill up ya dingus.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

People act like no one PvPed before exp was added. We had more pops with no exp and 24 mans vs 72 mans. Instead of asking to remove third place, should ask for them to tweak it down to two teams. If they reworked frontlines to match rival wings they could add rival wings into the roulette. That makes so much more sense then punishing some "random" team.

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72 player matches were rare. They had to shrink the maps and create a 24 player version because the queue never had enough for 72 player maps and even then the queues were over an hour long. Its not that *no one* pvp'd, its just that the queue was more or less dead and you had to organize pvp outside of the game to get it to pop and only events ever got frontlines to pop frequently before it quickly died out. Adding exp to the roulette is straight up the only reason frontline matches exist in the manner they do now.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

People act like no one PvPed before exp was added. We had more pops with no exp and 24 mans vs 72 mans. Instead of asking to remove third place, should ask for them to tweak it down to two teams. If they reworked frontlines to match rival wings they could add rival wings into the roulette. That makes so much more sense then punishing some "random" team.

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If you want to be technical then sure, it's not really dead as in the sense SOME still played them. But ouside of a PvP event, it's usually take 30min + for it to pop, and I had many times cancel the queue after waiting for 45-50min. When the queue were like that, it might as well be dead.

The fact that 24mans exists is the proof the queue was dead. I never want to play 24mans frontline ever again.

I'm all for removing 3rd place, but I would simply remove the 3rd faction. Your grand company literally doesn't matter anymore since you just get placed into a random one anyway and the 3 faction system in frontlines was a god awful idea to begin with.

At this point make 1v1 teams, no point on screwing the 3rd place.

And it won't help people at all with that suggestion anyway, play Rival Wings and even with some exp etc reward people will just gladly throw the moment they see losing.

And another thing, not everybody even cares about the post game rewards, mostly achievements or leaderboards so they HAVE TO get 1st place or it will be considered a waste of time by default.

The more you guys start spewing bad ideas and stripping the mode to just 1v1 teams.

How about just say what you mean, just get rid if pvp. Then nobody can win nor lose. Or better yet lets just get rid of FFXIV entirely. Nobody can win or lose if theres no game to play lol

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

The more you guys start spewing bad ideas and stripping the mode to just 1v1 teams.

How about just say what you mean, just get rid if pvp. Then nobody can win nor lose. Or better yet lets just get rid of FFXIV entirely. Nobody can win or lose if theres no game to play lol

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Maybe they just shouldn't play what they don't like? :eek::eek::eek: :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

The more you guys start spewing bad ideas and stripping the mode to just 1v1 teams.

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Hell no, the most fun match I had this month was one I came in third place. There are some dynamic that 1v1 doesn't have.

The team I was on got camped hard by Red team that have a couple DK/DRG/AST/SMN team that just go around and wiping everyone. The point gap was ~600 and it felt like the team was falling apart. Then someone made a rally cry: I don't care about wining anymore, but Red must die. And the whole alliance answered. We rolled hard into Red without a care, and tried to make they lose most of their contest against the other team. At the end we barely helped the other team edge them out, and a lot of celebrate as if we won even though we were first.


No doubt the hardcore PvP gonna say that's loser mentality, but IDGAF. I play hard (most of the match I usually have BH4 or 5, and on average die maybe once or twice at most), but I also play for fun. While admittedly there are the occasional frustration, the current frontline is the duty I play the second most only after savage raid because of the majority of the time I enjoy it a lot.

Edit: oh yeah, forgot to mention. The one who made the rallying cry ...:cool: was me.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Absolutely no...

In pvp there is two things you win... or you lose...

Is that difficult to understand?

And also I would not mind to turn it all down to 16v16v16 or 8v8v8 instead if that mean the freeloaders vanish from gameplay due to severe reduced rewards for not winning.

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This is how PVP dies again. This would absolutely DESTROY queues. Frontline would be DEAD dead. I always play to win, but there's a 66% chance of losing no matter what. If there wasn't an XP bonus, why would I queue every day?

The only thing I'm going to agree is to reduce the number of players participating ;; 72 players is just too much. I don't know what's the magic number though.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Hell no, the most fun match I had this month was one I came in third place. There are some dynamic that 1v1 doesn't have.

The team I was on got camped hard by Red team that have a couple DK/DRG/AST/SMN team that just go around and wiping everyone. The point gap was ~600 and it felt like the team was falling apart. Then someone made a rally cry: I don't care about wining anymore, but Red must die. And the whole alliance answered. We rolled hard into Red without a care, and tried to make they lose most of their contest against the other team. At the end we barely helped the other team edge them out, and a lot of celebrate as if we won even though we were first.


No doubt the hardcore PvP gonna say that's loser mentality, but IDGAF. I play hard (most of the match I usually have BH4 or 5, and on average die maybe once or twice at most), but I also play for fun. While admittedly there are the occasional frustration, the current frontline is the duty I play the second most only after savage raid because of the majority of the time I enjoy it a lot.

Edit: oh yeah, forgot to mention. The one who made the rallying cry ...:cool: was me.

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This is quite possibly one of the most beautiful FL anecdote I've read.

Indeed, I think this is the beauty of 1 vs 1 vs 1. There's always the outside force that's ready to ride the momentum, or shift the tide of battle. It's not fun to be in your team's position and denied of any way out of that, people would just throw the game even harder to end the game faster. I had several similar occasion like your story and hot damn, ain't they are one of the most satisfying FL moments. Few times we ended up winning but that was probably quite far from what we first expected since we just wanted to make X team pay for their earlier roflstomping.

If you want to win more in FL, you have to actively put in the effort to win. You can't just show up and try to carry and hope the rest of your alliance knows the right thing to do to win. No amount of changing rewards or removing 3rd place is going to help you win more. FL is literally ALL amount morale. And if you don't know how to motivate others to win a game, you are leaving it all up to luck.


The skill of winning FL is not about how well you press your buttons. It's about how well you can lead 23 other people. There is no other method.

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

But thats my place :(......

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You'll always be first to some of us.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

If you want to win more in FL, you have to actively put in the effort to win. You can't just show up and try to carry and hope the rest of your alliance knows the right thing to do to win. No amount of changing rewards or removing 3rd place is going to help you win more. FL is literally ALL amount morale. And if you don't know how to motivate others to win a game, you are leaving it all up to luck.


The skill of winning FL is not about how well you press your buttons. It's about how well you can lead 23 other people. There is no other method.

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Accept not even this is surefire.
Tactics n the like died when SE killed off 8 man premades due to people complaining

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Accept not even this is surefire.
Tactics n the like died when SE killed off 8 man premades due to people complaining

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Premade had nothing to do with tactic, just unfair advantage.

Killing 8 man premade was one of the best decision they did, and thanks god they listened.