Come on Puppetmaster/Mammeteer job 7.0

I know hints means nothing when it comes to this game but come on. The hints to puppetmaster/mammet is so there. I want it. I need it. Wishing it into existence. And Geomancer too.

Lol sorry I had to. Don’t come for me fellow warriors of lights. Happy Holidays!

What role would it fit into? Caster has gone two full expansions without getting a new job.

I don’t think we’ll ever see another pet job. Look at summoner, the AI has been a nightmare. They finally just pulled out the pet with the exception of carbuncle and they even moved one of his two skills to the summoner and the clunkiest part of the kit is the fact that the barrier can’t be used unless carbuncle is present.

I think the only way something like this works here is if we take control of the puppet when we enter combat.

Full job puppetmaster would technically be too close to pug/mnk, if they decide to add it might end up being something like Blu. As for new jobs I believe they already mentioned shooting for original jobs at this point, so a lot if the OG FF jobs are less likely now, but who knows they could always take inspiration from the OG jobs.

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

I know hints means nothing when it comes to this game but come on. The hints to puppetmaster/mammet is so there. I want it. I need it. Wishing it into existence. And Geomancer too.

Lol sorry I had to. Don’t come for me fellow warriors of lights. Happy Holidays!

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/popcorn
Here we go again

I have low hopes for another pet job that isn't a Limited Job and, personally, good riddnce. Pet-based job would work a lot better as Limited Job, because, ironically, Limited Jobs in ways they can be designed are a lot less limited than normal ones.

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Originally Posted by Sequora

What role would it fit into? Caster has gone two full expansions without getting a new job.

I don’t think we’ll ever see another pet job. Look at summoner, the AI has been a nightmare. They finally just pulled out the pet with the exception of carbuncle and they even moved one of his two skills to the summoner and the clunkiest part of the kit is the fact that the barrier can’t be used unless carbuncle is present.

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If you want to make it caster just make the puppet the weapon. Channel through the puppet to curse/damage enemies. Or be Alice from the Touhou fighting games and beat people with exploding puppets.

Pretty sure SE is trying to avoid pet jobs after all the issues with summoner and scholar over the years. That being said, if they were adding another mini-game job like BLU, I'd rather have the pet job there so that you can just let it be strong and no one will care since it can't do current content anyway.

SE sucks at making pet jobs, period. The only way I can see SE doing anything like this is to make the mammet a mimic type of gimmick.

I wonder... What if Puppetmaster would - not - be a "pet" job?

The weapons being puppets/dolls, inspired by Lulu from FFX.
https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1751...600,f8f8f8.jpg

A caster that applies dots (hexes and curses) not directly on the enemy, but on the puppet instead, and it transfers to an enemy in one single kardia-esque debuff, like a voodoo doll.

This way you can have a dot centric job without the technical limitations that we currently have with dots.

I also don't think we'll see another "classic pet job" unless they rework the whole combat engine, so for puppeteer this is the most likely scenario for it to happen without being a limited job.

Plus, with puppets as weapons we can see a myriad of interesting designs, maybe some matching minions we have already.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

SE sucks at making pet jobs, period. The only way I can see SE doing anything like this is to make the mammet a mimic type of gimmick.

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Pet jobs have generally been troublesome in most MMOs. I hear one got it right, but that was probably a better environment for them.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

Pretty sure SE is trying to avoid pet jobs after all the issues with summoner and scholar over the years. That being said, if they were adding another mini-game job like BLU, I'd rather have the pet job there so that you can just let it be strong and no one will care since it can't do current content anyway.

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Summoner and Scholar were doomed from the start when they both branched off from arcanist. I definitely believe they can do a pet job well. It’s just the community has lost faith because of how they handled summoner and scholar. They never should of branched a dps and a healer from a dps starter job to begin with.

I still have high hopes for a puppet master type pet job.

Why? What makes puppetmaster a better candidate than sch/smn, jobs they spent years iterating on?

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

Summoner and Scholar were doomed from the start when they both branched off from arcanist. I definitely believe they can do a pet job well. It’s just the community has lost faith because of how they handled summoner and scholar. They never should of branched a dps and a healer from a dps starter job to begin with.

I still have high hopes for a puppet master type pet job.

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I agree, I think that having SCH and SMN tied to ACN turned into a bad idea and I wish SCH had a class at low levels so we could have 2 healers as starting jobs instead of one. That being said I just don't think SE knew how to make pets work well in the current game engine and that is why they have effectively given up on them and mostly removed them.

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

I know hints means nothing when it comes to this game but come on. The hints to puppetmaster/mammet is so there. I want it. I need it. Wishing it into existence. And Geomancer too.

Lol sorry I had to. Don’t come for me fellow warriors of lights. Happy Holidays!

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What hints? lol

Given all the problems they have had with smn and its pet system to the point of outright removing pets you can basically bet your life savings that this game will never add another pet job.

Honestly, pet jobs in general are a chore and horrible in basically every mmo.

Pet jobs were fantastically handled in ffxi. Beastmaster was basically the ultimate solo+pet job. Puppetmaster was exceptional and summoner was an actual summoner.

The problem with ffxiv isn't that pet jobs don't work in mmos. It's that ffxiv's battle systems are all arenas, timed events and corridors.

Ffxi was true open world. Everything was explorable. A fortress/dungeon was an actual on with traps, secret passages and HNMs guarding it's interiors.

And technically all classes are pet jobs when you bring out your choco. That's as far as a "pet" mechanic can go in this game, in the zones, farming fates, which are basically redundant content as there's nothing dangerous in ffxiv's "open world"..

FFXI was also slow...and entirely menu based combat. You can't even make the comparison between that and current MMO's with their more active combat.

Pet Jobs in FFXI were totally broken and were not 'fantasically handled', they were a complete mess - BST couldn't even get parties until SE added the Jug monsters and even then it was only once they added that overpowered beetle one that players started to use BST in party situations - prior to that party leaders were usually reluctant to bother inviting a BST unless they were forced to having no other choice (namely, no one else seeking a party at the time). SMN was "just use Garuda and have her spam one or two abilities ad nausum" (and manipulate certain gear with special effects to overcome the MP-drain penalty of having a summon out in FFXI). PUP was just "BST mk II but with customizable pets".

FFXIV has shown all too well the problems with pet Jobs, and alas it's clear Yoshi has realized this, so I'm pretty confident to say we won't be seeing the likes of PUP or BST here in FFXIV (to say nothing of Yoshi's comments in the past stating how future Jobs will be "completely new and unique to FFXIV", and thus won't be a reoccuring Job from a previous game I'm afraid.).

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Pet Jobs in FFXI were totally broken and were not 'fantasically handled', they were a complete mess - BST couldn't even get parties until SE added the Jug monsters and even then it was only once they added that overpowered beetle one that players started to use BST in party situations - prior to that party leaders were usually reluctant to bother inviting a BST unless they were forced to having no other choice (namely, no one else seeking a party at the time). SMN was "just use Garuda and have her spam one or two abilities ad nausum" (and manipulate certain gear with special effects to overcome the MP-drain penalty of having a summon out in FFXI). PUP was just "BST mk II but with customizable pets".

FFXIV has shown all too well the problems with pet Jobs, and alas it's clear Yoshi has realized this, so I'm pretty confident to say we won't be seeing the likes of PUP or BST here in FFXIV (to say nothing of Yoshi's comments in the past stating how future Jobs will be "completely new and unique to FFXIV", and thus won't be a reoccuring Job from a previous game I'm afraid.).

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Didn't the pets level also impact exp share with the party? I recall that being a pretty major reason why they never got invited outside of BST just not being all that strong in general.

Next class is almost certainly going to pair with ninja for light armor melee-dps (only armor group that goes to only a single class now that dragoon pairs with reaper). Also square has shown it categorically hates pet classes... my poor carbie Q_Q barely a glamour at this point

I would love a whimsical adaption of Puppetmaster to be added and have had quiet a few ideas over the years on how to do it:

-One of my oldest ideas was to have the Puppet to be a weapon (instead of a pet) for a physical DPS and it would mimic all your weaponskills, being 50% of the damage for that weaponskill. Some of their oGCDs could revolve around buffing or changing the puppet.

-I had thought of a caster Puppetmaster that would weave oGCDs in-between their GCDs that would be saved to a "script". You could then press a play buttons and the puppet would perform the Script as GCDs, with a button to cancel the script when needed. However, with how hard timing would be for planning and performing the scripts, I had a hard time coming up with meaningful oGCDs for the puppet other then just single-target and AoE burst abilities.

-I also thought about a healer Puppetmaster based on the mammet from Ameliance's delivery quests; The user would have a mammet with a gauge that would full up whenever the user used a spell (both heals and DPS) and/or filled over time, and the user could use the gauge as a cost for various commands for the mammet (heals, mitigation, buffs, maybe DPS).

(✿´ ꒳ ` )

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Pet Jobs in FFXI were totally broken and were not 'fantasically handled', they were a complete mess - BST couldn't even get parties until SE added the Jug monsters and even then it was only once they added that overpowered beetle one that players started to use BST in party situations - prior to that party leaders were usually reluctant to bother inviting a BST unless they were forced to having no other choice (namely, no one else seeking a party at the time). SMN was "just use Garuda and have her spam one or two abilities ad nausum" (and manipulate certain gear with special effects to overcome the MP-drain penalty of having a summon out in FFXI). PUP was just "BST mk II but with customizable pets".

FFXIV has shown all too well the problems with pet Jobs, and alas it's clear Yoshi has realized this, so I'm pretty confident to say we won't be seeing the likes of PUP or BST here in FFXIV (to say nothing of Yoshi's comments in the past stating how future Jobs will be "completely new and unique to FFXIV", and thus won't be a reoccuring Job from a previous game I'm afraid.).

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I had leveled BST 1 to 75 (in the golden years) completely solo or duo with a friend. I don't recall any BST ever complaining they couldn't get a party coz no BST was looking for parties. The whole point was that you could charm even-match or tough monsters and solo/duo incredibly or very tough mobs easily and get very very good exp per hour.

Hell, we used to duo nms that took a full party to fight with just tough charmed pets..

A bst/whm was a solo powerhouse. It was the most solo friendly job in a non-solo era of ffxi..

I actually thought of how PUP would work in XIV a while ago back in Stormblood (when I was less jaded KEKW).

I imagined it as a Physical Ranged that had positionals, where you have to angle yourself to hit positionals. Your GCDs would be your puppet actually doing your GCDs for you, but at melee range; And since BRD focused on party support and MCH focused on the longest vuln ups (that stacks with Trick), I thought of PUP being more of a defensive utility based ranged physical.

PUP would have to use the puppet to mitigate for people. Puppet would be able to give Adlo-type shields to people as kind of their own version of Palisade, but with two stacks every 60 seconds. The puppet would have a bubble around them that would give them shields on a 120 second cd, kinda like a succor. It would absorb the excess damage from the shields breaking into itself, and it can eject that damage back onto the boss for like 50% of the damage received and then restore twice as much as the damage that was put out.

For drawbacks, the puppet would have a maximum hp that scales with the PUP's stats. If the puppet dies, then it would be on the PUP to sacrifice portions of his hp to revive the puppet, kinda like a hard rez but for the puppet, but instead of mana, we use the player's hp instead.

It would also be the most mobile physical ranged , because he actually needs it. He could ride the Puppet kinda like a mount for a few seconds. He and the puppet could switch positions instantly. He could place the puppet like SCH. He could charge to the boss with his puppet.

Of course a lot of the concepts I've said right now are kinda just dead in the water because of Shadowbringer changes, but I just thought I'd share.

There's a mobile MOBA that's not the most popular game out there or anything, but has some really breathtaking art and character designs that features a Puppeteer that I feel could be a really unique source of inspiration for a PUP concept in FFXIV.

Here's a video of that character's gameplay

Basically, the puppet is your weapon, and acts as an extension of your skills rather than being a pet with independent AI. Some others have mentioned not treating the puppet as a true pet, and I believe that's the key to allowing PUP to function in FFXIV and be considered for design. I'm not saying a pet job can't work, but it's clear the developers have a negative amount of interest in trying to make pets work as anything other than a temporary DoT. Whether the puppet is purely aesthetic for your animations, or if it does function as a sort of controlled object, I think it's a solid design niche that we aren't really exploring right now. Personally, I like the idea of it being a tank, where the concept of the puppet soaking damage for you is done in the aesthetics, but perhaps just works like putting barriers on yourself, but there's a lot of freedom to direct its design toward any role really. It can be a tank like I mentioned, or a melee job that attacks with the puppet, or a ranged job that controls their puppet with strings, or a caster that does the same, but with cast times.

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Originally Posted by Sequora

What role would it fit into? Caster has gone two full expansions without getting a new job.

I don’t think we’ll ever see another pet job. Look at summoner, the AI has been a nightmare. They finally just pulled out the pet with the exception of carbuncle and they even moved one of his two skills to the summoner and the clunkiest part of the kit is the fact that the barrier can’t be used unless carbuncle is present.

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I could see it being a Phys Ranged, with the puppet not being a pet as such, but the players weapon, used/animated separate from the player like how SGE's nouliths can fly off and do things.

Just take notes from reaper's voidsent animations, just keep the voidsent persistently out and change it to a puppet and you're done

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Originally Posted by Ransu

FFXI was also slow...and entirely menu based combat. You can't even make the comparison between that and current MMO's with their more active combat.

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As to your point on the menu based combat: No, not really, most people used macros once getting their bearings to basically have the same setup that gave us the crossbar in XIV, (the limiting factor was only having so many lines per macro slot, which has since been alleviated in modern FFXI with gearsets where you assemble a gearset and can essentially link to it using only 1 line in your macros) as the macro pages were bound to the shoulder buttons (tho this could be customized).

The pace is indeed slower though. Like a Real Time with Pause...minus the pause ofc since it's an MMO XD But it allowed for awesome coordination with Skillchains and Magic Burst and it's a shame that Eureka while being a send up of XI in regards, did not have such a co-op focused feature to make the grind engaging in the moment to moment the way XI did.

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Originally Posted by Razhius

I had leveled BST 1 to 75 (in the golden years) completely solo or duo with a friend. I don't recall any BST ever complaining they couldn't get a party coz no BST was looking for parties. The whole point was that you could charm even-match or tough monsters and solo/duo incredibly or very tough mobs easily and get very very good exp per hour.

Hell, we used to duo nms that took a full party to fight with just tough charmed pets..

A bst/whm was a solo powerhouse. It was the most solo friendly job in a non-solo era of ffxi..

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Agreed (edit: quoted the wrong post of yours but yea, still agree with your overall points in this thread), I also really like how they've handled BST in recent years. Making it basically a source of killer effects for other friendly targets to up their damage.