Make garden plots available on islands.

Since the vast majority of us will never get a house, even with the new wards, you should allow garden plots to be placed on our islands so we can grow our own Thavnarian onions and other things.

Islands aren't designed to replace housing.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Islands aren't designed to replace housing.

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I'm well aware of that. But since my chances of getting a house and slim and none, and slim already has one foot on the bus, I'd like a place to use garden plots.

I'm pretty sure that was 90% of the reason players were asking for "farms" prior to the announcement of Island Sanctuary in the first place, but that reasoning either didn't get through to the devs or got lost along the way.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

Since the vast majority of us will never get a house, even with the new wards, you should allow garden plots to be placed on our islands so we can grow our own Thavnarian onions and other things.

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We know they're working on giving us the ability to place outdoor furnishings on the island but we don't know if that includes the garden patches and their function. We'll have to wait and see.

But I'll be highly amused if happens and they're fully functional so players start complaining that mammets should also be allowed to tend the garden patches in addition to the croplands.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I'm pretty sure that was 90% of the reason players were asking for "farms" prior to the announcement of Island Sanctuary in the first place, but that reasoning either didn't get through to the devs or got lost along the way.

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Or they didn't care because they wanted Island Sanctuary to be something different for the game.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

so we can grow our own Thavnarian onions and other things.

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You know why they are "expensive"? Its not because they arent enough plots to produce them. Its because its f****** annoying to raise and crossbreed them. One day you arent log in and groom them and 2 weeks progress is wasted. Thats why nobody bothers beside enthusiasts to grow more to reduce the prices.

People who wants gardening plots simply have no idea how lackluster the gardening feature is. It begins from the crossbreeding till the most annoying menue you will ever see in FF14. They should ask a friend to be a tenant or in the FC to take care for the patches for 1 month. Believe me most players will neglect it after one week.

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Originally Posted by Yodada

People who wants gardening plots simply have no idea how lackluster the gardening feature is. It begins from the crossbreeding till the most annoying menue you will ever see in FF14. They should ask a friend to be a tenant or in the FC to take care for the patches for 1 month. Believe me most players will neglect it after one week.

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Truest words. I know a number of people here have the same view too.

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Originally Posted by Yodada

You know why they are "expensive"? Its not because they arent enough plots to produce them. Its because its f****** annoying to raise and crossbreed them.

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I wish they were expensive, for the amount of work and annoyance in them. They are selling for about 60,000 each for the 2 weeks being tied to the game. No days off from watering, ever.

4,200g per day income and then RNG behind that too.

It's a shocking way to make gil.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

But I'll be highly amused if happens and they're fully functional so players start complaining that mammets should also be allowed to tend the garden patches in addition to the croplands.

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OMG, You are so right.

That and "I didn't tend my crops for a week and they all withered. Why won't the rain water the onions?"

I was among those hoping for 'farms' prior to the announcement of Island Sanctuary and I am still hoping that devs will consider it.
About a year ago I had to take a break from the game for work but I was lucky enough to have a house. I was used to log in daily just to tend to my garden.
For a year.
Daily.
So yes, some of us are weird and love to water virtual plants in a game.

Last summer I had to move to another server to join some friends soooooo.... goodbye house.
I am trying to get a new one but Lottery Gods are mean.

What I miss the most as house tenant?
Well, gardening of course.
No, I don't want to burden my friends with tending permissions.

Something like the Apartment System where instead of a room you can rent a garden patch would do greatly.
Or the chance to turn an apartment into a roof garden where you can place your patches, just like the actual houses: different sizes, different prices.

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Originally Posted by Yodada

You know why they are "expensive"? Its not because they arent enough plots to produce them. Its because its f****** annoying to raise and crossbreed them. One day you arent log in and groom them and 2 weeks progress is wasted. Thats why nobody bothers beside enthusiasts to grow more to reduce the prices.

People who wants gardening plots simply have no idea how lackluster the gardening feature is. It begins from the crossbreeding till the most annoying menue you will ever see in FF14. They should ask a friend to be a tenant or in the FC to take care for the patches for 1 month. Believe me most players will neglect it after one week.

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I had a small house next to someone with a medium FC house and they let me use their patches and we split the money. I had to join their FC to use their patches and it turned out they only had two members. I agree we didn't make HUGE money from it, but it was steady. The biggest thing that I saw hurt the pricing was the idiots who would put up 10 onions at a time and way undercut everyone. Anyway, one day I log on to find the FC house is gone along with the other two members. No idea what happened. I tried to keep it going with my single patch but that really was too slow. I ended up moving to another server and have been trying for a couple of months to get a medium house. The FC I'm in now has a small house and they're letting me use their patch to get a surplus of the seeds I'll need if by some miracle I get a house of my own.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

The FC I'm in now has a small house and they're letting me use their patch to get a surplus of the seeds I'll need if by some miracle I get a house of my own.

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So you have access to a plot for seeds, and can grow the seeds to plants in your apartment? Yes?

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Originally Posted by Shibi

So you have access to a plot for seeds, and can grow the seeds to plants in your apartment? Yes?

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Also in a FC room. That's 4 onions that can be growing while trying to get more seeds.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

We know they're working on giving us the ability to place outdoor furnishings on the island but we don't know if that includes the garden patches and their function. We'll have to wait and see.

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Didn't Yoshi say specially they are exploring that option to make growing non island crops on the island? I don't have a specific link to offer but could have sworn I read that somewhere.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Didn't Yoshi say specially they are exploring that option to make growing non island crops on the island? I don't have a specific link to offer but could have sworn I read that somewhere.

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Not that I recall. He did say they are exploring allowing the placement of outside furniture on it.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Not that I recall. He did say they are exploring allowing the placement of outside furniture on it.

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I'm pretty sure he talked about garden too but I'll let it lie given I don't have a link and maybe i needed more sleep. Might have been in a live letter translation on Reddit. Furniture placement was definitely mentioned as well.

Edit: They were looking into alts sharing houses too at one point :P.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Edit: They were looking into alts sharing houses too at one point :P.

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I'd love that most. Even if it were a transfer sort of thing. Full access over all characters would be nicer of course :D

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Originally Posted by Shibi

So you have access to a plot for seeds, and can grow the seeds to plants in your apartment? Yes?

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Yes, I have access to a single garden patch, which I'm grateful for, but it is far from optimal. The seeds I'm trying to get a surplus of are the tantaplant seeds. I've found that three patches with tantaplants planted in the corners is the most efficient way to maintain a steady supply of onion seeds.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I'm pretty sure he talked about garden too but I'll let it lie given I don't have a link and maybe i needed more sleep. Might have been in a live letter translation on Reddit. Furniture placement was definitely mentioned as well.

Edit: They were looking into alts sharing houses too at one point :P.

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References to "garden" in translations can be misleading. In JP, the outdoor area of a house plot is referred to as the "garden". When we see "garden furniture" in a translation, they're referring to outdoor furnishings in general, not garden patches.

As Shibi said, to our knowledge nothing was mentioned about growing estate crops in addition to placing furnishings. When we got our first real look at Island Sanctuary, the infographics specifically stated it was not for growing estate crops (what we currently grow at out houses). It doesn't mean that they can't change their mind about it, but it also doesn't mean they will.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

Yes, I have access to a single garden patch, which I'm grateful for, but it is far from optimal. The seeds I'm trying to get a surplus of are the tantaplant seeds. I've found that three patches with tantaplants planted in the corners is the most efficient way to maintain a steady supply of onion seeds.

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It is no worse than people who have small houses and do this with a single plot.

As for "three patches" it sounds like you have quite a sizable access to plots and now want even more!!! Most people don't even get three, and the subset of most with access, do it in small with one.

For many years in my small home, I would swap my plots, build the tantal plants with the krakka/eggplant loop, then store that and pull out the jute/tantal loop plot when I had enough, always leaving Jute sparkling. When I had run out of Tantal, I'd swap the plots again. Of course, some would prefer to swap that, leaving tantals as the sparkler and doing a jute loop with Jute+Azema Rose/Voiddrake/Lavender in order to get the jute byproduct too. Azema does provide a lot more jute seeds under it's RNG than krakka/eggplant does.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

As for "three patches" it sounds like you have quite a sizable access to plots and now want even more!!! Most people don't even get three, and the subset of most with access, do it in small with one.

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I have access to a single plot. In the past I had access to three and I put the tanta in the corners and let them sparkle and planted either old world figs or kukuru between them.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

I have access to a single plot. In the past I had access to three and I put the tanta in the corners and let them sparkle and planted either old world figs or kukuru between them.

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ok!

All i can really suggest for now - until one day SE improves stuff - is the plot swap method, it really helps speed things up when you can grow a few weeks of tantals, then put out the other loop for the onions until the tantals are all gone.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

I have access to a single plot. In the past I had access to three and I put the tanta in the corners and let them sparkle and planted either old world figs or kukuru between them.

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If you're leaving the Tantalplants in place, you'd be better off just using 3 instead of 4. Place them in the top corners then one in bottom center (or bottom corners and one in top center). That way each bed will have an adjacent Tantalplant to cross with but you'll have 5 potential seeds to harvest instead of 4.

I tried it once and gave up. I just do voiddrakes now. No maintenance, low income. It's good as side gil but nothing remarkable.

I think it would be a good idea for people to be able to use Island Sanctuary for that... and also.. reducing the incomes on actual gardens.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

Since the vast majority of us will never get a house, even with the new wards, you should allow garden plots to be placed on our islands so we can grow our own Thavnarian onions and other things.

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Only the best players can get a house, the garden is the reward for our effort.

Mao wonders what the fuss is over Thavnarian onions. Thems dirts cheap on Mao's world. Almost to point where is not worth effort to grows them anymore. Mao thinkings only peoples who would enjoys gardening for sake of gardening would bother to grows onions at this point. (This post was done in RP mode for those who might be confusled.)

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Originally Posted by Battler-Ushiromiya

Only the best players can get a house, the garden is the reward for our effort.

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Not really, I am not quite awesome...and I got a large plot... I also run a small FC in a medium plot.... I see no reason in why we should be able to make millions on the gardens or the workshop by selling higher end materials needed for ships and submarines.

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Originally Posted by Yodada

You know why they are "expensive"? Its not because they arent enough plots to produce them. Its because its f****** annoying to raise and crossbreed them. One day you arent log in and groom them and 2 weeks progress is wasted. Thats why nobody bothers beside enthusiasts to grow more to reduce the prices.

People who wants gardening plots simply have no idea how lackluster the gardening feature is. It begins from the crossbreeding till the most annoying menue you will ever see in FF14. They should ask a friend to be a tenant or in the FC to take care for the patches for 1 month. Believe me most players will neglect it after one week.

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It blows my mind that Yoshida has said that he wants it to be okay to take breaks, meanwhile if you take 25 hours off from the game, your crops *die.* Just do the Stardew Valley thing and they just stop growing until they're tended. Crops dying because you took a break (or, hell, just had a busy week at work or something) is absurd.

But gardening is abandonware. Like many other things in XIV (gold saucer), it's something that was added to the game and then wholly abandoned afterwards. I wonder if it's a Chocobo Racing thing where it was literally just one person that had anything to do with it, that person got promoted/moved, and now there's no one to do it in their absence.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

It blows my mind that Yoshida has said that he wants it to be okay to take breaks, meanwhile if you take 25 hours off from the game, your crops *die.* Just do the Stardew Valley thing and they just stop growing until they're tended. Crops dying because you took a break (or, hell, just had a busy week at work or something) is absurd.

But gardening is abandonware. Like many other things in XIV (gold saucer), it's something that was added to the game and then wholly abandoned afterwards. I wonder if it's a Chocobo Racing thing where it was literally just one person that had anything to do with it, that person got promoted/moved, and now there's no one to do it in their absence.

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Simple solution to the crop thing. If you know you're going to be gone for a bit or maintenance is coming up, drop them into storage. Yoink them back out when you return/game comes back up and voila. Not dead.

Also I had no idea either of those things were abandoned. They do tend to them every so often with new things. New gates, new seeds, etc.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

It blows my mind that Yoshida has said that he wants it to be okay to take breaks, meanwhile if you take 25 hours off from the game, your crops *die.*

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If you chose to plant crops, then presumably you weren't on the verge of taking a break from the game.

If you want a break, don't start on something that needs constant in-game attention.

(And no, your house is not a thing that needs constant attention either. Even with the demolition timer active, your sub only needs to be one month on, one-and-a-half months off.)

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

Simple solution to the crop thing. If you know you're going to be gone for a bit or maintenance is coming up, drop them into storage. Yoink them back out when you return/game comes back up and voila. Not dead.

Also I had no idea either of those things were abandoned. They do tend to them every so often with new things. New gates, new seeds, etc.

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Adding a seed that's a single step and doesn't actually interact with any elements of the system isn't really adding new content. You can grow allagan melons in flowerpots. Actually adding something to gardening would be a multi-stage process involving crossbreeding.

When's the last time they added a GATE? Adding a map to Leap of Faith doesn't count, that's not actually new content.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

Adding a seed that's a single step and doesn't actually interact with any elements of the system isn't really adding new content. You can grow allagan melons in flowerpots. Actually adding something to gardening would be a multi-stage process involving crossbreeding.

When's the last time they added a GATE? Adding a map to Leap of Faith doesn't count, that's not actually new content.

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My guess is they're not updating gardening more than the occasional new seed because they're focused on trying to make more houses available for players. Players complain when they feel locked out of new content. It's just a guess though.

As for the GATEs, they already announced they will be adding a new one sometime this expansion. Yes, it's been a while since they added a new one (The Slice is Right in patch 5.1) but not adding a new one every patch doesn't mean that content has been abandoned.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

My guess is they're not updating gardening more than the occasional new seed because they're focused on trying to make more houses available for players. Players complain when they feel locked out of new content. It's just a guess though.

As for the GATEs, they already announced they will be adding a new one sometime this expansion. Yes, it's been a while since they added a new one (The Slice is Right in patch 5.1) but not adding a new one every patch doesn't mean that content has been abandoned.

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I don't see how adding more wards, which is mostly an issue of physical logistics, is mutually exclusive with making a housing system less absolutely awful. I dunno, man. Square-Enix has a serious problem with basically abandoning "side content" for years at a time. PvP has been the best example of this, traditionally - maybe a few minor adjustments here or there, or maybe an occasional new item for purchase from vendors, but otherwise zero significant work done on it for years at a time.

It seems very inefficient, to me. Why even bother putting in so much initial effort if you're not going to continue to dedicate resources to keeping it updated and maintained?

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

I don't see how adding more wards, which is mostly an issue of physical logistics, is mutually exclusive with making a housing system less absolutely awful. I dunno, man. Square-Enix has a serious problem with basically abandoning "side content" for years at a time. PvP has been the best example of this, traditionally - maybe a few minor adjustments here or there, or maybe an occasional new item for purchase from vendors, but otherwise zero significant work done on it for years at a time.

It seems very inefficient, to me. Why even bother putting in so much initial effort if you're not going to continue to dedicate resources to keeping it updated and maintained?

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They just did a bunch of work on PvP. Look, things aren't abandoned completely in this game. They do come back when they can to look for improvements and add features. Just because they aren't doing something to every little thing in every patch (there's a lot to do in this game) doesn't mean it's abandoned. It's just working as intended and nothing about it needs to be changed right now, or ideas are already being worked on in the background to be added later.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

I don't see how adding more wards, which is mostly an issue of physical logistics, is mutually exclusive with making a housing system less absolutely awful. I dunno, man. Square-Enix has a serious problem with basically abandoning "side content" for years at a time. PvP has been the best example of this, traditionally - maybe a few minor adjustments here or there, or maybe an occasional new item for purchase from vendors, but otherwise zero significant work done on it for years at a time.

It seems very inefficient, to me. Why even bother putting in so much initial effort if you're not going to continue to dedicate resources to keeping it updated and maintained?

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Gserpent claims SE has been and continues to ignore PvP for years.

SE adds Crystalline Conflict as a new PvP mode in 2022 and it's generally considered a major success by the player base. They've also been reworking how jobs function in PvP on an ongoing basis.

Or are we just imagining that they have been?

SE is like any game developer. They can't be constantly working on every thing they would like to add/change. They have to prioritize. When it comes to housing, they're currently focused in improving things for the have nots instead of the haves. Personally, I'm fine with that. I want to see more players getting the opportunity to enjoy house ownership rather than have them spend the time introducing a new seed for gardening, watch everyone switch to growing it so the market crashes then go back to growing whatever we had been growing before..

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Gserpent claims SE has been and continues to ignore PvP for years.

SE adds Crystalline Conflict as a new PvP mode in 2022 and it's generally considered a major success by the player base. They've also been reworking how jobs function in PvP on an ongoing basis.

Or are we just imagining that they have been?

SE is like any game developer. They can't be constantly working on every thing they would like to add/change. They have to prioritize. When it comes to housing, they're currently focused in improving things for the have nots instead of the haves. Personally, I'm fine with that. I want to see more players getting the opportunity to enjoy house ownership rather than have them spend the time introducing a new seed for gardening, watch everyone switch to growing it so the market crashes then go back to growing whatever we had been growing before..

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I mean, what have they done? They made BLM absurdly overpowered due to what was later explained as a very amateur mistake and then most changes since that point have been remedying the problem they created. Frontlines has just been a very slapdash band-aid fix that trades one set of problems for a different set without really addressing the core issues. And we still have no real fixes planned or talked about for the very numerous issues with ranked mode, nor have we heard anything about new rewards (literally the only reason a majority of people participate in PvP) being added outside of the series. It's also likely that they're going to exacerbate existing issues with the system, as every time they mess with PvP, they mostly increase potency of actions while not increasing defenses or base HP values. Maybe that will come in a future patch? But if they were doing their jobs properly, they wouldn't need to - hence, "do it well, or don't do it at all."

I guess you can make the claim that it's not "abandoned," but it's surely not supported as well as it could be. Or should be.

Which is why I'm saying their method of development comes across to me as wasteful and inefficient. If you're going to do something, do it well. Otherwise don't do it. I don't believe in half measures or spreading yourself too thin to provide a sub-par experience in as many areas as possible. Focus your efforts and excel at a few things, rather than doing many things with mediocrity. It's the reason most restaurants, and almost all *good* restaurants, have a very small menu.

So in other words, they have been doing things to maintain and update content but you don't approve of what they've done.

What is doing it well to you may be someone else's terrible job and vice versa. Game design is not an objective, black-or-white situation. There's a lot of subjective opinion involved. There are also limits of technology and resources to work around.

It's fair to say you don't like something in a game's design but all those other claims that they never do anything to maintain or update? Please dial back on the hyperbole because it doesn't accomplish anything.

I mean, they objectively made PvP quite a lot worse with the BLM changes. It's rare that a game dev, even one that's as generally open as CBU3, will directly admit an error and walk it back in a follow-up patch. Usually only when they know they made a mistake and they've been caught in it. Calling that "supporting" the content is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

It's also readily apparent that their current strategy of continually increasing potency, but without increasing player HP values or defensive values, is going to lead to a serious problem down the road. Yes, increasing potency by 1,000 or 2,000 here or there is "support," but in my opinion, if it's a net negative, I don't know if I even want that kind of "support." To me, adding new items to the vendors, new maps, etc is what I'd deem to be "support." So, yes, we're getting the new map in 6.3, but what about new vendor items? I suppose there's time for that, they don't usually announce that sort of thing in advance. Virtu sets went over pretty well and I feel like it shouldn't be *too* hard to make more.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

I mean, they objectively made PvP quite a lot worse with the BLM changes. It's rare that a game dev, even one that's as generally open as CBU3, will directly admit an error and walk it back in a follow-up patch. Usually only when they know they made a mistake and they've been caught in it. Calling that "supporting" the content is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

It's also readily apparent that their current strategy of continually increasing potency, but without increasing player HP values or defensive values, is going to lead to a serious problem down the road. Yes, increasing potency by 1,000 or 2,000 here or there is "support," but in my opinion, if it's a net negative, I don't know if I even want that kind of "support." To me, adding new items to the vendors, new maps, etc is what I'd deem to be "support." So, yes, we're getting the new map in 6.3, but what about new vendor items? I suppose there's time for that, they don't usually announce that sort of thing in advance. Virtu sets went over pretty well and I feel like it shouldn't be *too* hard to make more.

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If you're unhappy with the state of PvP, why are you complaining about it in the Housing subforum?

You still haven't said anything that supports your claim that SE doesn't maintain and update content. All you've done is pointed out that you're unhappy with their choices and that certain other players have expressed similar opinions.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If you're unhappy with the state of PvP, why are you complaining about it in the Housing subforum?

You still haven't said anything that supports your claim that SE doesn't maintain and update content. All you've done is pointed out that you're unhappy with their choices and that certain other players have expressed similar opinions.

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Personally there are some areas where i would like some updates, instead of new system.. example: you know how many AI companion systems we have? FOUR.

1) Chocobo companion (abandoned)
2) Squadron (abandoned)
3) Trusts
4) The new system with silly characters without name

Also 3 and 4 can often overlap, in a way that in One system, Trusts dont get exp, in the other they do, but Need to be leveled up on par with the dung level.

Personally i would have builded on the Squadron thing and made:

1) improved on them and in their kit and made them available on more dungs (no Need for Trusts and the new system).
2) let you summon ONE on open world with a reduced kit (if the base One Is too stringo) aka: Chocobo reskin (but the with tank stance working).

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If you're unhappy with the state of PvP, why are you complaining about it in the Housing subforum?

You still haven't said anything that supports your claim that SE doesn't maintain and update content. All you've done is pointed out that you're unhappy with their choices and that certain other players have expressed similar opinions.

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I mean, we could look at the gold saucer in general and see evidence of it there. The problem is that you're taking an *extremely* reductive definition of "supports" here, such that no one can ever truly declare something to be unsupported even when it functionally is. It's typical webforums/reddit nonsense.

On topic, when is the last time there was a *substantial* change to gardening? Okay, they added Allagan Melons in Shadowbringers - a seed that's purchased from a vendor for gil and does not involve crossbreeding or anything else in gardening, and can indeed be grown in flowerpots just fine. That's something added to gardening by a *very* generous definition of the term, but since it doesn't interact with gardening systems *at all*, I'd argue it's not supporting the system.