Underground Bots

I am boggled - - this seems "low hanging fruit".

I just started using Idle Cam - enjoying the show - - and always always (ALWAYS) end up with a view of a pod of identical bots underground.

You could sweep - manually or automatically and burn all players underground - that does not seem complicated given an absolute parameter.....underground.

In order to "report" I need to be able to see/target the offending payer character.

If the SE team is waiting for that to happen the Bots are forever safe.

Proactively burning everything underground........ that's like getting rid of termites or cockroaches. Rats.

Low hanging fruit. Burn the nest.

I retire in ten years and have been shaking my head in this economy faced with the inevitable jobs to seniors like "Wal-Mart Greeter" or "Costco Food Taste Demonstrator/SampleGiver". What a great job I would enjoy so much more in my sunset year - - - burning pirates 4-6 hours a day.

Low hanging fruit - cost effective - HUGE dividends.

Back in ARR you used to see them running around in the sky.

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Originally Posted by Ronin_Symphony

Low hanging fruit - cost effective - HUGE dividends.

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The impression I get is that if they expected to make big bank from less bots being around, SE would have done so already. They only act if it's enough bad PR. Run sellers in PF managed to become that because of how in the face to everyone opening the PF window they ads were. Underground bots arent.

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Originally Posted by Ronin_Symphony

I am boggled - - this seems "low hanging fruit".

I just started using Idle Cam - enjoying the show - - and always always (ALWAYS) end up with a view of a pod of identical bots underground.

You could sweep - manually or automatically and burn all players underground - that does not seem complicated given an absolute parameter.....underground.

In order to "report" I need to be able to see/target the offending payer character.

If the SE team is waiting for that to happen the Bots are forever safe.

Proactively burning everything underground........ that's like getting rid of termites or cockroaches. Rats.

Low hanging fruit. Burn the nest.

I retire in ten years and have been shaking my head in this economy faced with the inevitable jobs to seniors like "Wal-Mart Greeter" or "Costco Food Taste Demonstrator/SampleGiver". What a great job I would enjoy so much more in my sunset year - - - burning pirates 4-6 hours a day.

Low hanging fruit - cost effective - HUGE dividends.

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There's really no need for us to be report those obvious RMT bots. SE is aware they're there. They've even got underground death traps scattered in various places. I used to love to watch the bots trying to go to the Waking Sands die to the one under the entrance.

The bots you want to be reporting are the gathering bots and the like that may be trying to imitate normal player activity but have failed somehow. Example would be a bot I found in Diadem flying into a tree branch going nowhere for over a half an hour. A normal player would have corrected immediately and continued to their node, or would have been kicked from Diadem for inactivity. Since it was that same position for over 30 minutes, I knew it was a bot.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Back in ARR you used to see them running around in the sky.

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That was happening again in the city-states at Shadowbringers launch. You could watch the trains of bots floating thru the air and buildings.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

There's really no need for us to be report those obvious RMT bots. SE is aware they're there. They've even got underground death traps scattered in various places. I used to love to watch the bots trying to go to the Waking Sands die to the one under the entrance.

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Did they really start doing that?

That feels like it was years overdue, though hopefully they also applied it to the dungeons the bots run because they'll likely just adjust by staying in-bounds in the overworld, but they have to stay out of bounds in dungeons in order to kill the bosses.

Ok I have to turn idle camera on

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

Ok I have to turn idle camera on

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You'd have to check the bots are actually around first (Player searching for sprouts with weird gibberish names typically gets that job done), since the floor bots aren't nearly common as they used to be; possibly because "sustainable" botting via level-capped characters who almost never get banned is more efficient.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

You'd have to check the bots are actually around first (Player searching for sprouts with weird gibberish names typically gets that job done), since the floor bots aren't nearly common as they used to be; possibly because "sustainable" botting via level-capped characters who almost never get banned is more efficient.

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It's not that hard, just /icam by the Aetheryte in Ul'dah and you will see them. Honestly, I'm shocked that they don't swat them down. That's just more game keys that SE can sell to the botters, lmao.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Did they really start doing that?

That feels like it was years overdue, though hopefully they also applied it to the dungeons the bots run because they'll likely just adjust by staying in-bounds in the overworld, but they have to stay out of bounds in dungeons in order to kill the bosses.

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I went back to my old screenshots and tracked it down to Oct 2020 when I was leveling one of my new alts. I could see the damage text rising out of the ground plus hear whatever noise then character would make when dying followed by a faint thud. I had captured the battle log information, and a few would come back after rezzing and briefly appear above ground at the entrance so I could target them easily.

I'm assuming the traps are still there though the bots probably have been given a different way to get in and out of Waking Sands since. And as you say below, they seem to be a lot rarer now at least there. I think they can still be found if you idle near the GC HQ or a company chest.

I might try checking for them when I transfer a couple of my characters to the new data center next month. It should get swamped with bots, especially if all the current NA worlds end up Congested.

Hard to say if those traps would work in dungeons since those are instanced. I'm not even certain exactly how the bots were dying, I could just tell they were.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

It's not that hard, just /icam by the Aetheryte in Ul'dah and you will see them. Honestly, I'm shocked that they don't swat them down. That's just more game keys that SE can sell to the botters, lmao.

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Except this type of bot is usually on an account set up with compromised payment info. They only last long enough for a quick farm and gil transfer before SE gets the chargeback.

I know people like to think that nothing is done because the bots mean more game license and subscription income but they're actually a loss to SE because the payment info is fraudulent or stolen. Chargeback costs add up for businesses.

It's possible to fall underground by accident because of terrain although it's very rare. It's happened to me a few times before over the last decade. Just running normally for a quest and then fell.

I love how people are just now discovering this. It's not some brand new thing. Square Enix is straight up unable to ban all of these accounts. I know it and they do, too. Pretty much every MMO has bots like this. Get used to it already.

And just so I'm not misunderstood, I'm not saying I approve. The STF does what they can, but you ban one bot and ten more pop up. It's a constant game of whack-a-mole. That's just how it works. You can thank people on all worlds who buy gil instead of actually playing the game. Inflation sure is nice.

I reported a few the other day but it’s a bit of a lost cause as they will just make more which is why I didn’t bother wasting time reporting more. If you read this forum and other social media places you will see threads about the eureka bots,the crafting bots, etc that have been around for a long time. Some it takes awhile to get taken care of. Some never do. I wish their team was bigger then perhaps we would see more vanquished.

Maybe when they start working on to ban the folks who buy gils we'll see their numbers culled... maybe... just maybe... who knows...

Those 80m gil Yak Milk or 50m Blue Hydrangea Corsage in sale history though...

It's funny that while they'll apparently monitor the gil being transferred through trade/mail spamming, they think nothing of all the worthless items being moved for ludicrous prices via the MB.

Simply tracing those transactions across characters would almost certainly lead to some manner of RMT operation.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

It's funny that while they'll apparently monitor the gil being transferred through trade/mail spamming, they think nothing of all the worthless items being moved for ludicrous prices via the MB.

Simply tracing those transactions across characters would almost certainly lead to some manner of RMT operation.

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I list things for ludricrous prices intermittently on the MB so I can move gil between my characters that aren't in the same FC or are cross world/data center. It may be suspicious but it's not proof of being involved in RMT.

I wouldn't fear it if SE were to start tracking those types of transactions because they would clearly be able to see that gil is staying on the same service account but I wouldn't want to encourage players to look for those transactions and witch hunt the listed buyer, either.

SE knows what accounts they're banning for RMT activity. All they need to do is trace where the gil that left those accounts went to. It's not a task that should be part of the STF's duties - they're too busy trying to monitor the bots and probably work with the technical team to develop countermeasures to the bot programming. It should be done by a small team of GMs affiliated with the STF. Even if it's 4000 accounts being banned weekly, those 4000 accounts are probably feeding into a couple of dozen accounts that then disperse the gil to the buyer so it shouldn't take a large number of employees to do the work.

Trace the gil to the destination. Have a supervisor confirm the trail was followed correctly before taking action on the account. Have the GM contact the receiving player in game and ask them to explain the unusual gil transaction(s). Listen to the funny stories like "I thought some generous soul might want to buy a pair of cotton gloves for 2 million gil to help a poor player out" then inform the player that the buyer of their item is known to be engaged in RMT sales and that their account is being temporarily banned for engaging in RMT.

Make certain to save the funnier excuses in a file to be compiled into a quarterly blog to be posted on Lodestone called "More dumb excuses from gil buyers" (but not listing the buyer names, of course). That advertises that SE is going after the buyers just as much as they're going after the sellers to help deter other potential buyers..

Considering the way the marketboard is set up for the game, there's not going to be any accidental purchases by RMT of an item listed by an innocent player (assuming it wasn't a direct character trade in the first place). RMT does not give away large amounts of gil on a whim.

Most players will buy gil because there's no penalty to them for doing it. Give them a penalty long enough to make them think twice after a first offense (30 days seems sufficient). Let them post in the forums or reddit or wherever to sob about the unfair persecution they've experienced for something that wasn't their fault. Permanently ban the account if caught buying a second time.

RMT will always exist in gaming as long as there are those willing to buy. If you want RMT gone, you've got to convince the potential buyers that it is not worth it.

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Originally Posted by Ronin_Symphony

I am boggled - - this seems "low hanging fruit".

I just started using Idle Cam - enjoying the show - - and always always (ALWAYS) end up with a view of a pod of identical bots underground.

You could sweep - manually or automatically and burn all players underground - that does not seem complicated given an absolute parameter.....underground.

In order to "report" I need to be able to see/target the offending payer character.

If the SE team is waiting for that to happen the Bots are forever safe.

Proactively burning everything underground........ that's like getting rid of termites or cockroaches. Rats.

Low hanging fruit. Burn the nest.

I retire in ten years and have been shaking my head in this economy faced with the inevitable jobs to seniors like "Wal-Mart Greeter" or "Costco Food Taste Demonstrator/SampleGiver". What a great job I would enjoy so much more in my sunset year - - - burning pirates 4-6 hours a day.

Low hanging fruit - cost effective - HUGE dividends.

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You will always see bots running rampant in successful mmo's. You see these bots because they make a lot of money. SE bans them in waves. They make a lot of money. They create more. The cycle will never end. If you start seeing no bots the game is dead.

I always wonder what they even need the gil for. There really isnt much to spend it on.

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Originally Posted by Nyxs

I always wonder what they even need the gil for. There really isnt much to spend it on.

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Someone new to the game could easily be overwhelmed by all the things there are to buy and the prices for them. It looks different for those of us who have been playing a long time and slowly acquired those things we wanted as they were released. We're also familiar with all the ways gil can be made. The new player isn't.

Then there's the occasional lazy player that just isn't interested in putting the slightest effort into making gil when they've got a credit card to get it for them.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Those 80m gil Yak Milk or 50m Blue Hydrangea Corsage in sale history though...

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Once in a while somebody gets lucky and manages to rip the gil sellers (and whatever buyers that gil was supposed to go to) off by throwing a random item up for an amount that's completely insane. Hitting on the right number and item is lot like winning the lottery I'd imagine, but heck, good for the few people that have managed to do this.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Once in a while somebody gets lucky and manages to rip the gil sellers (and whatever buyers that gil was supposed to go to) off by throwing a random item up for an amount that's completely insane. Hitting on the right number and item is lot like winning the lottery I'd imagine, but heck, good for the few people that have managed to do this.

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I doubt that has ever happened in this game because of the way the MB is designed. You would have to know what item(s) the buyer and seller have agreed to use for the transaction and the amount of the transaction(s).

Now in WoW it was fairly easy to do because you could do a search for all items with the list sorted in high to low order.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I went back to my old screenshots and tracked it down to Oct 2020 when I was leveling one of my new alts. I could see the damage text rising out of the ground plus hear whatever noise then character would make when dying followed by a faint thud. I had captured the battle log information, and a few would come back after rezzing and briefly appear above ground at the entrance so I could target them easily.

I'm assuming the traps are still there though the bots probably have been given a different way to get in and out of Waking Sands since. And as you say below, they seem to be a lot rarer now at least there. I think they can still be found if you idle near the GC HQ or a company chest.

I might try checking for them when I transfer a couple of my characters to the new data center next month. It should get swamped with bots, especially if all the current NA worlds end up Congested.

Hard to say if those traps would work in dungeons since those are instanced. I'm not even certain exactly how the bots were dying, I could just tell they were.


Except this type of bot is usually on an account set up with compromised payment info. They only last long enough for a quick farm and gil transfer before SE gets the chargeback.

I know people like to think that nothing is done because the bots mean more game license and subscription income but they're actually a loss to SE because the payment info is fraudulent or stolen. Chargeback costs add up for businesses.

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Large majority of bots just boost and do eureka.
its like 750m-1b/day with 50 accounts.

Square just dont care about banning them.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Someone new to the game could easily be overwhelmed by all the things there are to buy and the prices for them. It looks different for those of us who have been playing a long time and slowly acquired those things we wanted as they were released. We're also familiar with all the ways gil can be made. The new player isn't.

Then there's the occasional lazy player that just isn't interested in putting the slightest effort into making gil when they've got a credit card to get it for them.

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Very much this. I rolled on Phantom when it opened. Fresh character with no other characters to support it. Yes I got 1 mil gil at 30 from the new world bonus. But getting level 60 gear (I was in 50 content from the road to 80 buff) cost me nearly 2/3 the gil I had. I KNOW what I am doing. A new player that found themselves catching crap in MSQ normal dungeons because their gear although perfectly adequate for the content they were doing was not for their actual level. Yes this actually happened to me more than once. The prices would have floored them and probably put them in a bit of a panic as they wouldn't know how to recoup the loss quickly.

That said unless one is into the whole housing thing there isn't much use for more than say 2 million Gil (allowing for a safety net).

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Square just dont care about banning them.

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I think the issue is mainly that it takes quite a large amount of costs to have very effective detection, while now, even if they are running for a few weeks (and generates the rmt vendors smoe profit), SE also gets some profit from that. On that you want to disrupt them enough that as plague they have a lesser effect, but still want to be break even in money. And that is a somewhat fair balance to go for, as in the end, its going to just be a race where the RMT vendors will generaly be ahead into avoiding detection.

Sure, they can ban the underground bots now, but if that becomes autodetection and reacts fast, bots makers will just find diffirence positions the bots will use. Now this might actualy be part of the easy detection and be very efficient on that (where they might only ban 80% instead of 100% to obfuscate that detection method).

Its barely possible to stop the RMT vendors as bots are usualy cheap (often using stolen credit card info)

At this point going after the bots that do exist would be very easy. If SE did become more active we would see better veiled bots (or rather not see). As it stands SE doesnt have much of an incentive to go after them beyond keeping them out of sight. The game doesnt have a lot of the free2play economy garbage like endless systems of boosters and I am glad about that. But that also makes it so that taking a shortcut to getting gil isnt really all that much of a problem for SE.

They are losing engagement from people just buying their clears but seeing how little they do against that it cant be that much in terms of money. You can run yourself ragged with reporting every single bot but it wont achieve anything as long as SE doesnt care. Getting them to care can easily turn out to be making a wish to a monkey paw.

I really doubt there's ever gonna be a solution to this tbh.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

I really doubt there's ever gonna be a solution to this tbh.

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Likely not, but sometimes I do idly wonder if SE could hire a few PR/Enforcement people to sometimes appear in world near the GC turn in counters. 90% of their job being PR.

Bonus points if they have a boss level Megaflare/AkhMorn spell.

If nothing else, we could just enjoy the show of a GM destroying bots every now and again. :D

Likely not a serious well thought idea, but more of a fantasy. I think it would be awesome to watch.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

They are losing engagement from people just buying their clears but seeing how little they do against that it cant be that much in terms of money. You can run yourself ragged with reporting every single bot but it wont achieve anything as long as SE doesnt care. Getting them to care can easily turn out to be making a wish to a monkey paw.

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I'm not certain I agree they're losing engagement from those buying carries. The people who buy have no interest in being engaged by the content, they just want the rewards fast and quick. Take away the ability to buy the carry and they wouldn't bother with the content, they'd just complain it's too hard and that the game should give them another way to earn the same rewards.

On the other hand, allowing carries to be bought for gil can prolong engagement by those who do engage with the content. It's allowing them to save gil for the next raid release when they'll need new gear, more materia and more consumables.

It only becomes a problem if the player is turning to RMT to get the carry. A lot of players earn more than enough gil to pay for the carry without turning to RMT.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Likely not, but sometimes I do idly wonder if SE could hire a few PR/Enforcement people to sometimes appear in world near the GC turn in counters. 90% of their job being PR.

Bonus points if they have a boss level Megaflare/AkhMorn spell.

If nothing else, we could just enjoy the show of a GM destroying bots every now and again. :D

Likely not a serious well thought idea, but more of a fantasy. I think it would be awesome to watch.

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It would only take one member of the GM or Community teams to go around doing this. The visual displays can be more effective than mere words seen as empty.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I'm not certain I agree they're losing engagement from those buying carries. The people who buy have no interest in being engaged by the content, they just want the rewards fast and quick. Take away the ability to buy the carry and they wouldn't bother with the content, they'd just complain it's too hard and that the game should give them another way to earn the same rewards.

On the other hand, allowing carries to be bought for gil can prolong engagement by those who do engage with the content. It's allowing them to save gil for the next raid release when they'll need new gear, more materia and more consumables.

It only becomes a problem if the player is turning to RMT to get the carry. A lot of players earn more than enough gil to pay for the carry without turning to RMT.


It would only take one member of the GM or Community teams to go around doing this. The visual displays can be more effective than mere words seen as empty.

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Yea I meant RMT carries but yes, the negative impact it has on SE's wallet is probably very little if it even exists.

I didn't even know the Devs had set up traps for those nasty bots.

Actually a more effective trap would be to add a sensor, and mark the bots that are underground and then kick them out and have them turn into a mob for players to punish.

It would be hilarious to watch them get mauled in Limsa Lominsa or something by the NPC guards.

There seems to be a total lack of active enforcement from the STF and they'll instead only act on behavior that can detected automatically, which would explain why the teleporting bots account for almost all of the weekly bans while the "legit" bots that are mostly not doing anything that is blatantly impossible (Aside from the Mare Lamentorum bots that are using an animation removal hack to fish faster...) get a free pass.