The FC/Personal ward restriction have more than served their purpose by now. It's not a big deal, but the FC wards are depressingly empty on OCE servers and it would be nice to let them fill up a bit.
Remove the FC/Personal housing ward classifications for OCE?
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10-11-2022, 04:29 PMDamptoeRemove the FC/Personal housing ward classifications for OCE?
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10-11-2022, 05:24 PMJojoya
They wouldn't be able to remove the classifications but they could switch some of the FC wards to personal so players could move personal houses in.
I don't know how much of a difference it would make. My FC's ward is full yet it still feels depressingly empty when I'm there because there's rarely anyone else in the ward. -
10-11-2022, 06:38 PMShibiYep, they always said they can change from lottery to FCFS on any individual server. There is no need for lottery, and the associated FC only wards, for us on materia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Damptoe
Now that everyone is settled, and the prime houses have been allocated fairly, it's better to just open it up on Materia to immediate placard buy. Doing that would also remove the FC only reservation. -
10-12-2022, 12:48 AMJojoyaAre we certain the FC/personal designations are tied to the lottery as opposed to the ward? I got the impression that the designations exist regardless of lottery or FCFS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibi
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10-12-2022, 09:42 AMShibiAre you certain there is not? The ward desigation is tied to the placard after all. The FCFS code is quite old, based on SEs hesitance to change old spaghetti it's not hard to believe that there is no lock on walking up and buying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
I do get the feeling this will also be an issue on Dynamis. After the initial housing rush is over - like EU there will be a lot of servers left.
Flipping to FCFS after a while is smarter, and without ward splits it allows people to have a FC and house next to each other. This is the biggest problem on all new servers since June, few combos for personal/fc (outside of the wards that flipped over). A pain when you move between them. -
10-12-2022, 07:45 PMJojoyaIf I go back to the original announcement about the new housing purchase system in MarQuote:
Originally Posted by Shibi
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...796b3f56abbd28
we get:
followed by:Quote:
Depending on the housing ward, land may be purchased on a first-come, first-served basis, or by lottery.
At the release of Patch 6.1, all land available for purchase will be subject to the lottery system.
So it's the housing areas (wards) that are divided by FC or private. It doesn't state that the division is tied to the purchase method.Quote:
Housing areas are divided into plots available for purchase by either free companies or private buyers, and a plot’s usage is restricted accordingly.
* Methods of purchasing land and/or purchase availability may vary by World in future updates.
I don't believe going FCFS would allow FCs and individuals to buy houses in the same ward at the same time based on what's said there. For the types of owners to mix, it would require the ward designation to be changed - which honestly it should be on a regular basis to allow the mix. Swap them around every 2 months with the .X patch then again with the .X5 patch.
While I don't have an issue with wards that are mostly vacant going to FCFS, we end up with the question of what happens when all the mediums and larges are filled up so only smalls are left. Will FCFS be true FCFS opening the door to RMT again even of a plot owned privately, or will it go back to the placard timer FCFS as it existed at the start of the expansion (no relocation bypass)? The major money is in the mediums and larges, not the smalls. Would FCFS have to be switched back to lottery at that point? -
10-13-2022, 06:55 AMShibiAnd as far as ward split absolutely zero has been said. So any statement that it works one way or another is simply made up. You make up your stance, and I make up my stance. You can't state it as a fact any more than I can. And you really shouldn't in your first post in this thread. And I should on my belief in my first post too, tbh. Neither of us is right, because neither of us know. SE have said nothing. Guess, but state it's a guess, not a fact. OK?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
However, let me state that right now, on Materia, and on the new EU servers, and soon enough the Dynamis servers (after a few lottery rounds for fairness), retaining lottery is of no use - there are simply too many empty plots. Ideally, what I would like (ON NEW SERVERS) to see that that lottery (and hopefully split) runs for a few rounds, maybe 5 or 6, then if it's say > 5% free plots it's all removed and the system returns to FCFS (without split hopefully). People can combo their FC and personal next to each other, and all buys are instant. It remains FCFS until housing is down to 5% then lottery comes back on.
It's become clear that lottery serves little purpose on new servers after a few rounds, and the ward split should follow the same idea, so I'd love to SE do something to remove both until the new servers fill up.
Placard timer for 10-12 hours, then walk-right-up buy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
RMT won't be advantaged. There is no relocation, and with clicking first there is no guarantee of a S-Tier demo sale. There are enough of us on the housing discords to spot an LB11/41 for sale and then be there at the placard to click and confound any attempt of RMT if it's demolished. -
10-13-2022, 10:07 AMNepenthaI've got no stake in what goes on at the OCE servers, but I have seen what RMTers will do when FCFS is around. Soon as that house demos, you will never beat them to it. They will ward scan 24/7. Soon as they see a demo, they will use a bot to teleport to that location immediately and auto buy/auto relo to that plot before you've even noticed it's demo'd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibi
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10-13-2022, 11:30 AMShibi
The thread is on removing the split, which I do back. And I don't really want to disrupt and take it off topic with the FCFS argument. However... People do need to stop thinking of what happened/happens on Balmung and applying it to new servers. It's chalk and cheese.
(If the placard is on click-wars, there is no relo)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepentha
Enter a lottery for 5 days with no other entries for a guaranteed win, or insta-buy one of the thousands and thousands of empty plots for a guaranteed win. Both will guarantee a house, so I really fail to see the difference.
Can you maybe please describe how their chances are improved when they are already 100%? Because I can't see how it would change, outside of them waiting 5 days to get the guaranteed plot.
(i am going to do a quick survey of the number of plots, and will brb :P)
Back after partial on the server I was shopping on... Now - these numbers are 4.5 months after the zero bug was fixed.
bismarck shiro --
Ward 1 - 43 empty
Ward 2 - 52 Empty
Ward 3 - 54 Empty
Ward 4 - 50 Empty
Ward 5 - 56 Empty
Ward 6 - 56 Empty
Ward 7 - 53 Empty
Ward 8 - 55 Empty
Ward 9 - 54 Empty
Ward 10 - 50 Empty
Ward 11 - 48 Empty
Ward 12 - 52 Empty
Ward 13 - 52 Empty
Ward 14 - 52 Empty
Ward 15 - 48 Empty
Ward 16 - 52 Empty
Ward 17 - 53 Empty
Ward 18 - 51 Empty
Ward 19 - 25 Empty
Ward 20 - 27 Empty
Ward 21 - 24 Empty
Ward 22 - 18 Empty
Ward 23 - 33 Empty
Ward 24 - 23 Empty
bismark mist
Ward 1 - 30 Empty
Ward 2 - 48 Empty
Ward 3 - 53 Empty
Ward 4 - 51 Empty
Ward 5 - 50 Empty
Ward 6 - 48 Empty
Ward 7 - 51 Empty
Ward 8 - 39 Empty
Ward 9 - 54 Empty
Ward 10 - 47 Empty
Ward 11 - 50 Empty
Ward 12 - 47 Empty
Ward 13 - 41 Empty
Ward 14 - 44 Empty
Ward 15 - 48 Empty
Ward 16 - 49 Empty
Ward 17 - 51 Empty
Ward 18 - 50 Empty
Ward 19 - 25 Empty
Ward 20 - 28 Empty
Ward 21 - 22 Empty
Ward 22 - 30 Empty
Ward 23 - 24 Empty
Ward 24 - 27 Empty
Bismarch Emperyum
Ward 1 - 42 Empty
Ward 2 - 55 Empty
Ward 3 - 56 Empty
Ward 4 - 55 Empty
Ward 5 - 57 Empty
Ward 6 - 53 Empty
Ward 7 - 53 Empty
Ward 8 - 54 Empty
Ward 9 - 59 Empty
Ward 10 - 54 Empty
Ward 11 - 55 Empty
Ward 12 - 56 Empty
Ward 13 - 55 Empty
Ward 14 - 55 Empty
Ward 15 - 54 Empty
Ward 16 - 56 Empty
Ward 17 - 54 Empty
Well, you get the idea...
Heres a screencap of LB on that server: https://gyazo.com/30627d63f45a69acbc9df524699fd9bc so you can see it with the types of houses
it's all the same and every ward has at least 1 Medium, some with all of them, and many wards with larges. Zurvan is even softer than this, as it's smaller.
Let's extrapolate... We'll be generous and say there are 45 plots left per ward... 45*24*5 = 5,400 free plots on that server.
With all of this, how does a reversion to FCFS (and hopeful removal of the split) benefit the bot reseller? I can't see how.
And yes, this is an empty LB 11
https://i.gyazo.com/aae5ad510940ce15...98585d1782.jpg -
10-13-2022, 12:05 PMNepenthaThat was a lot of work I didn't actually ask for nor was it necessary as it's not relevant to my point. You made an assertion that y'all could beat any RMTers to choice plots. I was simply correcting you on that one. If an RMTer wants something, they will likely get it before you do if it's FCFS. That much has been proven over the years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibi
As I said, I have no stake with OCE. It may be that y'all stay small like that with plots always open. It could be like Mateus on Crystal, and suddenly be hit with a population boom that sees every plot snapped up abruptly.
I just don't trust that SE will flip the switch when they should. They've said before it's possible to change things according to a world's needs, but they never do. Apartments, for example, they said they could increase them if necessary way back when they introduced them and there were so many it seemed ludicrous that would ever be necessary. But, Balmung's fresh out of apartments atm, and it's happened two other times. Happened once on Mateus, too. Despite saying they can increase the number of apartments, they haven't and likely won't.
Precedence shapes my opinion on this one. -
10-13-2022, 12:41 PMShibiMy assertion was that "RMT won't be advantaged. There is no relocation, and with clicking first there is no guarantee of a S-Tier demo sale." That is still correct, it's not guaranteed. And with > 5400 plots, RMT is such a slim demand that it may as well not exist. Yes, there are 2 or 3 people who collect LB 11/41, but outside them who would buy it, when so many S teir plots are left?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepentha
However, we are digressing, the thread argument is that the ward split would be nice to be removed on Materia, and soon enough in the EU servers too. And if it flows the same way, in February or March, on the Dynamis DC too.
Honestly, I don't think we care on new servers. After 6 or 10 split ward lottery rounds, the benefits of removing the split so we can have our housing and FCs together are greater. -
10-13-2022, 11:25 PMJojoyaRMT is always advantaged because they don't rely on the same resources that players are limited to using. The housing discords are only as accurate as those players who are willing to manually check and report what they find to them (which could be an hour or two after a plot becomes available). RMT makes use of bots and other third party tools for rapid scanning on a continuing basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibi
RMT will locate new available plots almost immediately regardless of whether it's lottery or FCFS with FCFS giving them a major advantage when it comes to purchasing. Even if the purchase timer is in use, they'll go back to using their bots to swarm the placards. It's not a guarantee they'll win the plot but the odds are heavily in their favor.
But getting back more on the original topic:
The new EU worlds showed that SE did learn a little from the Materia opening though I think not enough. When all the wards are opened at once to what's going to be a small eligible population at first, players end up too spread out and no one really benefits from what wards are designed to accomplish. It would have been better to roll out half the wards first with a 50/50 FC/personal split then add in more wards as the initial wards started to fill up. I can understand the possibility that their system design requires all worlds to have the server capacity for the same number of wards but that shouldn't have to mean that all those wards must also be available for purchase on every world. Perhaps SE needs a third purchase method in their system that blocks all purchases (Reserved for Future Use or something similar).
I'm still not convinced that SE is able to implement a mixed purchase type designation for the wards anymore. If they could, I think it would have been mentioned in the update announcement just as they pointed out they're free to switch between lottery and FCFS or FC and personal as they feel there's need. On the other hand, it doesn't mean that they can't add one if they feel it is worth the effort since we know in the past there was no such purchaser restriction.
But I doubt they'll feel it's worth the effort. They've never promised players that they would be able to have their personal house in the same ward with their FC house and they're not likely to change that for the sake of a single data center. Switching most of the wards currently designated as FC to personal would have a similar effect. After a few lottery cycles, they could again be switched so those wards left as FC could become personal and some of the personal go back to FC. It's something they probably should be doing on a regular basis regardless.
edit: just thought of another possible solution though I'm not certain the system would allow it either. Make the main ward FC purchase and the subdivision personal purchase. It's got the convenience of being able to use the aethernet to move within the entire ward if a player wants to go back and forth between their FC house nad personal house. -
10-14-2022, 04:03 PMDamptoe
It's not really about having FC member personals in the same ward as the FC house.
It's more that this really sucks to look at and it's like this in most of the FC only wards even on Ravana and Sophia which are the largest servers.
https://i.imgur.com/L2UM2jQ.jpg
The few new neighbours we've gained in our ward are just 4 member Rank 6 FCs farming submarines since they have unlimited time and plots to set them up.
The only purpose of this suggestion is to hopefully let these wards fill up with at least a few real players.
I doubt there is anything technical holding them back from flipping a configuration value to enable something that was possible for years. If it's simply a change in policy for simplicity sake that's holding them back, then yeah they can flip the FC/Personal allocations more frequently to achieve the same result.
For the time being, I think it makes a lot of sense to just open every ward to any type of purchaser or flip the allocations. It doesn't matter how they achieve it. If the data centre actually grows enough for real competition, then they can switch it back to how it is now.
Like I said in the OP, this really isn't a big deal but the way it is now also doesn't make a whole lot of sense on this data centre. This post is just meant as a little nudge towards SE that maybe this allocation isn't necessary anymore. -
10-15-2022, 12:51 AMJojoyaBut where would those players come from to start filling in some of those plots? I wonder if anyone has numbers on how many new purchases are being made each lottery cycle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Damptoe
I imagine by now that anyone who wants a house and can afford it has one. If the ward designation was removed or flipped to personal, you might see a few relocate to snag the available mediums I can see but those smalls would take a very long time to fill in because there are just too many houses on the Materia worlds compared to players that want a house.
What you need is for SE to put on a heavy marketing campaign for the holidays to draw in new OCE players to help fill in all the wards instead of just shuffling existing owners around. -
10-15-2022, 06:43 AMShibiWe have a heavy marketing campaign, and our numbers are filling out nicely, to the point we often have login queues now. But as you know, housing desire is not a 100% thing and it generally takes players quite a while to earn that first 3 million gil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
I mean, fair suck of the sav mate. Please stop trying to so heavily dictate and gatekeep what we desire on our servers, from your perch in North America. It's quite colonial of you. -
10-15-2022, 09:24 AMDeNada
I doubt the FC wards would fill up even with the switch to personal wards.
I have an alt on Zurvan with a small FC house. Even after the ward switch to personal ward, there's zero new house owners in my ward, which goes to show that most people who want a personal already got one and they would prefer to stay on an original personal ward (19-22) which is well populated rather than switching to a converted ward even if there's still nicer plots available.
Just putting out there that this is such a non-issue I sincerely doubt SE is paying any attention and will allocate resources to (fix? If it even is an issue at all). -
10-15-2022, 01:27 PMJojoyaUnfortunately for both you and us, SE gets to dictate everything and they're the ones doing the gatekeeping on their terms. Otherwise NA wouldn't be in the mess it's in right now. They would have addressed the growing problems back at the end of Stormblood beyond just reshuffling worlds, which did nothing to address the rapid increase in population from the initial WoW exodus in Feb 2019 and which only got worse with the third one summer 2021.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibi
They're highly unlikely to create special rules just for the OCE servers no matter how much the servers would stand to benefit from them.
Good that you're getting that heavy marketing campaign or does it offend you that SE had already decided it's necessary even before I brought it up?
Good that your numbers are filling nicely. It's been hard to tell from the random comments all over the forums and the last available Lucky Bancho census didn't seem to reflect much of a population increase over the prior one. I've been busy with other characters so haven't had a chance to do more than briefly check my OCE character the last couple of months to see for myself. I don't think any rational person wants the OCE data center to fail regardless of where in the world they live.
If you don't want players who don't live in OCE to be part of a public discussion in a forum open to all English speaking players regardless of where they are located, you probably should take it to an OCE only-forum somewhere. -
10-15-2022, 03:16 PMDamptoeI agree it's a complete non-issue but also seems like such an easy thing for them to change that doesn't require any resources to be allocated to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeNada
I can see how there'd be no change on Zurvan and maybe Bismarck, but I know on Sephirot, Sophia, and Ravana that the mixed wards have filled up reasonably nicely compared to the first 9 wards. Instead of the number of new personal residents being 0, there will at least be the possibility for someone else to move in whether it's a new buyer or someone relocating to a preferred plot.
https://i.imgur.com/RSX4Kvo.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
This doesn't affect NA at all, so I don't think we need to bother pretending their problems matter when it comes to this topic. -
10-15-2022, 05:12 PMShibiThing is Jojo, and what infuriates me about these forums, is so many people take it on themselves to speak for the developers with only their own assumptions and nothing but their guesses to back it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
That's an example of the gatekeeping I am talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
It's not your place, it's not anyone's place, to say what they can't do when there's nothing to back it up but your gut feeling. The forum's supposed to be a place where we can ask for things and it's a place we can share facts with the person asking.
You have facts sometimes, and that's good, and i respect you for that knowledge and sharing it when it is factual. But it's not your (or anyone's place) place to say "no!" when there isn't that hard knowledge, that's only on Yoshi.
I hope you understand. -
10-15-2022, 11:52 PMJojoyaOne, my statement is not gatekeeping. There is nothing about my statement that is intended to lock players out of content or to give a certain group preferential treatment over others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibi
Two, you have no proof to back up your claim that the system will allow for wards to be free of the FC/personal designations while I quoted the actual housing announcement stating that they will have the specific designation going forward.
Yes, it says methods of purchasing or availability may vary by world in the future. Try reading what comes directly before that:
No where does it imply that an area could also be allotted for both. It says a plot's usage "will be restricted", not "may be restricted".Quote:
Housing areas are divided into plots available for purchase by either free companies or private buyers, and a plot’s usage is restricted accordingly.
Taken together, the "may vary" language indicates that ward 1 on world A may be lottery and personal while ward 1 on world B may be FC and FCFS, not that ward 1 on world C can be a free for all with any type of buyer making a purchase.
I'm going by what SE has told us in their own post on the Lodestone, looking at the specific language they used.. What official statement made by SE are you going by for your position?
Certainily SE dropped the ball when it came to getting housing rolled out to OCE. They should have opened it no later than the end of February instead of forcing OCE players to wait almost 3 months. That would have given you mixed wards at the start and the designations once implemented wouldn't have had such a detrimental effect on ward atmosphere.
Maybe SE will prove me wrong. Maybe the designations will be removed. I don't have anything against them doing it.
But considering their track record, I genuinely do not think that will happen. The best you can hope for is they swap designations so personal house owners can start mixing in what are currently FC wards, and new FCs can start moving into what are currently the personal wards. -
10-22-2022, 03:04 PMDixieBellOCEYou should see what they already did on materia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepentha
Ward 2 goblet, on all 5 servers. Owned by one giant RMT group. -
10-23-2022, 02:14 AMNepenthaYou know for certain it's an RMT group? I find people throw that around a lot when in reality it's a sub shack and/or RP thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE
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11-02-2022, 06:38 PMMullygrubbThis 100%. Every patch since the fix I log hoping to find a stealth change that wasn't included in the notes, but nope. My FC ward still only has 4 houses, depressing AF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Damptoe
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11-07-2022, 01:10 AMLaylaTsarraI'm in a private ward and only 5 houses sold. There is one large and many mediums still up for grabs. I have to agree at this point though that the FC/Private distinctions on Materia need to go. Let people buy houses next to their FC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Damptoe