Sage and Reaper Crafted Weapons.

Please.

Just add more crafted primal stuff for other jobs.

Unless they decided to hint at a possible ultimate involving the ff7 weapon trials, of which they usually make weapons for all current jobs, I wouldnt expect anything for reaper or safe until they dip into EW trial weapons.

It's embarrassingly unprofessional and sloppy work to release new weapon sets in a new expansion and not make the entire set including weapons for all jobs.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

It's embarrassingly unprofessional and sloppy work to release new weapon sets in a new expansion and not make the entire set including weapons for all jobs.

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What Endwalker set is missing sage and reaper? Emphasis on Endwalker content.

Smol indie company

Please understand.

yes. smol indie company. please deliver the hundreds of weapons now missing for all the newer jobs since Stormblood by 6.25 :rolleyes:

Bro it's a massive corporation why are you so adamant about defending all their dodgy choices. We should absolutely expect them to do better and not skimp at every opportunity.

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Originally Posted by hobostew

Bro it's a massive corporation why are you so adamant about defending all their dodgy choices. We should absolutely expect them to do better and not skimp at every opportunity.

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SE is the corporation. CBU3 is a firm operating in that corporation. Defense of them is a side effect of my amazement at the ridiculous statements pouring through this forum. Why are you so adamant to suggest they can actually do all these things just like that? Your expectations are baseless and unrealistic. We had this discussion about a month ago and no one could ever get past the math I laid out, so whatever... keep smokin' that smoke and dreamin' that dream.

I'm not your bro and if I was I would absolutely reach over and smack you for being so dense. :D

Corporate simps are so weird lol

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

yes. smol indie company. please deliver the hundreds of weapons now missing for all the newer jobs since Stormblood by 6.25 :rolleyes:

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Yes actually, unironically please do

If they cancelled the order for the new DCs, they'd definitely have the funds to outsource that work. Sounds worthwhile for pleasing the aesthetics crowd. :rolleyes:

Call me all the names you want, it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong. :D

I don't think anyone's checked into that, but the backlog that would result from even beginning to look into that would be quite large.

When they do the new jobs, they provide all that's needed to get to the previous expansion's cap. Meanwhile, they're adding all the new stuff going into x.0. Trial weapons and crafts from tiers below the starting tier for a new job are useless. Bearing that in mind, they likely decided to skip that to save time and money. Looking back at old content in this way is detrimental to an MMO, especially if it's just for aesthetics.

I'm not happy about it, but I'm not going to lose my mind over it either.

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Originally Posted by Majatok

Did the devs ever make an official statement about why these weapons aren't made?

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Yep was mentioned a long while back, it would be overwhelming for their team to constantly go back and add new weapons each time, their model and art teams are more interested in new styles rather than going back to old styles, and there is a somewhat long process to go through often involving several teams, so plain and simple they could make the wespon but just they rather not.

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Originally Posted by Majatok

So why is it suddenly an issue with the primal weapons when their main purpose is glam? Especially when people want them?

https://i.imgur.com/HMpnvNH.png

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What people? These updates would serve a very small minority of players.

Take a look at how many main hand / off hand weapons are generated in each patch cycle. Take a look at how many items would need to be created to fill the entire backlog for just ONE of these jobs. (I did the math in another thread. I'm not about to dig for it.) You'll find a number far greater in value to the former. Yet somehow, they're supposed to squeeze this work into their schedule and budget. There's no infinite amount of resources to get everything done.

Those numbers don't exist in a vacuum though, and don't account for the fact that the primal weapons are already having craftable versions trickled out over the course of years. Obviously if you look at four expansions worth of missing weapons for all 9 new full jobs added since ARR you'll be on the order of 900+ weapons, buuut then you have the ones they did go back and add, and the 10-20 added when they go back and add craftable versions, and if you added them a handful at a time on the same cadence... Obviously it's still more work, but it's not a "ok it's been six years now go back and make these 900 weapons" level of ask.

Basically what I'm saying is they shouldve been just doing a handful at a time as they went back to add the fancy glowy versions anyway. Obviously they aren't going to and I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it but this isn't an all or nothing kinda thing.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

When they do the new jobs, they provide all that's needed to get to the previous expansion's cap. Meanwhile, they're adding all the new stuff going into x.0. Trial weapons and crafts from tiers below the starting tier for a new job are useless.

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Explain why they added the Dzi of the Crimson Lotus and the Naigama of the Crimson Lotus when they are 85 iLvls lower than the weapons you get for free from unlocking those two jobs. The Dzi of the Crimson Lotus and the Naigama of the Crimson Lotus weapons are literally "useless" as you said. They had to add the Padjali, Kinna and Empyrean weapons for Sage and Reaper but they didn't need to add the two Crimson Lotus weapons but they did. Please explain why.

Even going back to do one set of weapons for a trial jobs weren't around for sets the team up to be asked to do more and have complaints that it wasn't the best set to release.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

Explain why they added the Dzi of the Crimson Lotus and the Naigama of the Crimson Lotus when they are 85 iLvls lower than the weapons you get for free from unlocking those two jobs. The Dzi of the Crimson Lotus and the Naigama of the Crimson Lotus weapons are literally "useless" as you said. They had to add the Padjali, Kinna and Empyrean weapons for Sage and Reaper but they didn't need to add the two Crimson Lotus weapons but they did. Please explain why.

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You're really gonna sit there and ask about level 70 weapons from the only dungeon at that level to drop any.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Snip

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You never explained why. They could just have easily texture swapped any of the other level 71 to 88 Reaper and Sage weapons to be the Kinna weapons thus reducing modeling and texturing costs but they went and modeled an entirely new model just to do it. So what's their reasoning for not adding the trial weapons besides their "creative burnout" excuse they gave years ago after doing it for Red Mage and Samurai.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

What people? These updates would serve a very small minority of players.

Take a look at how many main hand / off hand weapons are generated in each patch cycle. Take a look at how many items would need to be created to fill the entire backlog for just ONE of these jobs. (I did the math in another thread. I'm not about to dig for it.) You'll find a number far greater in value to the former. Yet somehow, they're supposed to squeeze this work into their schedule and budget. There's no infinite amount of resources to get everything done.

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Ok in that case let's not release new jobs at all. Because you know, it would only serve a small minority of people. They make millions of subscriptions yet keep skimping on glamours in general. Not sure why you defend that because it's a literal fact. Not only for Sage and Reaper but for every job. Just look at latest dungeon. Reskinned accessories, can't dye the gear, no new weapons. It's been like this for a long time for what reason? The new jobs are getting shafted.

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Originally Posted by Majatok

Are you seriously going to tell me that the people that care about glam are a minority? Again they are regularly releasing equipment and items that only exist for glam purposes, this patch they increased the size of the glamour dresser. Why do you think they do that?

And what schedule and budget? What resources? Do you work for Square enix? How exactly do you know for a fact what is possible for them and what isn't?

How is that even relevant to this topic?

This thread is about wanting the new jobs to get access to more weapon glam, that's it. I'm not a dev or create content, but i imagine that i would appreciate it if my audience would tell me what they want and like.

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I'm telling you the people that care about sage and reaper weapons in those previous styles are in a minority.

You don't work for Square Enix either. You're just stating opinions while I'm making educated guesses. I'm looking at the facts in the history of what they've done for the past few years. You and others have these pipe dreams where there's money and people just waiting around to be used for all these projects.

Yes, they are regularly releasing items. They are only releasing so much. Since Shadowbringers, they have yet to go back and do more weapons for GNB and DNC. Their workload keeps increasing every time a new job is added. Look how little BLU even gets. You don't have to have an intimate knowledge of everyone and everything at CBU3 to see the obvious answers.

You bring up other glams like they matter. They're not relevant to this conversation as everything is already done and made for Sage and Reaper where that's concerned. It takes little effort to apply SGE and RPR to existing items. It's a different story when they have to create all new items.

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Originally Posted by Meowdyj

Ok in that case let's not release new jobs at all. Because you know, it would only serve a small minority of people. They make millions of subscriptions yet keep skimping on glamours in general. Not sure why you defend that because it's a literal fact. Not only for Sage and Reaper but for every job. Just look at latest dungeon. Reskinned accessories, can't dye the gear, no new weapons. It's been like this for a long time for what reason? The new jobs are getting shafted.

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Funny. You're barking at me and illustrating my point at the same time.

Imo at least do the dead giveaways like Hades reaper weapon etc... and look up which are used the most and make those, for gnb you can just copy paste something together and sage doenst need to be too special either... im annoyed as there are some which would be nice...

You can shift the topic as much as you want, it doesn't change the facts of the situation. Sage and Reaper are getting nothing from older content, just as Gunbreaker and Dancer before that.

Deveryn, why do you keep coming to the forums when you clearly hate them? (´o｀; ) ？

If I hated it, I absolutely wouldn't be here. :rolleyes:

we will spare no expense in this expansion

- Memex, Square

They didn't do it for Dancer and Gunbreaker, why would they do it for Sage and Reaper? Laziness has been the way when it comes to making equipment since Shadowbringers. You didn't think it stopped at not fitting headgear for Hrothgar and Viera, or simply cutting off Miqo'te ears, did you? If there's a shortcut, they'll take it.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

If I hated it, I absolutely wouldn't be here. :rolleyes:

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Do you just come here to get annoyed then? Is this some kind of weird decompressor for you? ∑（´△｀○）

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

You never explained why. They could just have easily texture swapped any of the other level 71 to 88 Reaper and Sage weapons to be the Kinna weapons thus reducing modeling and texturing costs but they went and modeled an entirely new model just to do it.

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Because if you're adding the weapons to a set -- at least, if you're doing it right -- they do sort of need to aesthetically match the existing pieces in the set.

If they went back and added RPR and SGE (and DNC and GNB and RDM and SAM) weapons to the Shiva EX crafted set, you'd expect them to match the other Shiva weapons stylistically, not just "we textured the Scaevan SGE weapon icy and gave it the ice-glow". If they went back and added Moogle weapons for all the later jobs to Thornmarch EX, you'd expect Moogle-themed weapons, not just "we took the level 73 RPR scythe and made it make a 'kupo' noise when you unsheathe it".

The Padjali, Kinna, and Empyrean weapons do have distinct styles.

As it is, they went back and added SGE and RPR weapons to the Scaevan magitek set (so that you could get tomestone gear even when you first unlock the job) and to the Cryptlurker set (so that you had a good weapon option at 80) and to the Edenmorn set (so that you had another good weapon option at 80), and to the various dungeon and crafted sets from 71-80 (so that you had weapons available at those levels, like, at all). And each of those additions was matched to the existing style of those weapons.

They added them to all three deep dungeon sets, because they wanted the jobs to actually be able to go in to deep dungeons.

And of course they needed weapons for Dragonsong's Reprise for all the current jobs, and those use the Thordan EX weapon models; this means they needed RDM, SAM, GNB, DNC, SGE, and RPR weapons that matched that aesthetic. And once they'd done that they'd functionally designed Thordan EX weapons for those jobs anyway, so why not just add them to all the variants that use that model since, at that point, the work is already done?

(Now, I honestly couldn't tell you why they added the Crimson Lotus weapons; all the others make sense, but not that one? Not entirely. If I had to guess, I'd imagine it was either so that a fresh RPR or SGE running a dungeon at level 70 could still get drops, or that it was some artist's passion project on the side that got folded in.)

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Do you just come here to get annoyed then? Is this some kind of weird decompressor for you? ∑（´△｀○）

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I love that guy. Start logically arguing with him, and you'll see how he goes into a desperate loop trying to annoy you.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

If they went back and added RPR and SGE (and DNC and GNB and RDM and SAM) weapons to the Shiva EX crafted set, you'd expect them to match the other Shiva weapons stylistically, not just "we textured the Scaevan SGE weapon icy and gave it the ice-glow".

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Don't Red Mage and Samurai have Shiva weapons though?

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Do you just come here to get annoyed then? Is this some kind of weird decompressor for you? ∑（´△｀○）

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Are you done projecting?

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

I love that guy. Start logically arguing with him, and you'll see how he goes into a desperate loop trying to annoy you.

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Other way around. 90% of the counters to my arguments are smol indie company or that I'm a shill / simp.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Other way around.

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oh, hi, Deveryn. How long... I expected a more elaborate answer.

Tell me, what's your opinion about Square Memex being a lazy company?

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

Don't Red Mage and Samurai have Shiva weapons though?

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They may; I admit I actually have not looked at the Shiva weapons in ages. Though back when there was a much smaller number of glowy weapons to revise, I can easily see adding weapons to older content, then realizing that it would become an exponentially greater task each time you added a new job.

Like, let's say that you're writing a game. You have... let's say 27 weapon sets per job between level 1 and 50, plus 1 endgame weapon (relic), plus 2 glowy glamour weapons. With the next expansion, you raise the level cap by 10 and introduce a new job. If you add the weapon to every previous set, you now have needed to make 30 weapons for this job in addition to the weapons in all the leveling sets for the current expansion you've just added.

Over the course of that expansion, you introduce another 24 weapons in total (dungeon, crafted, raid tiers), plus a new endgame weapon (relic), plus 3 glowy glamour weapons.

When the next expansion comes out, you raise the level cap by 10 and introduce two new jobs. Not counting the weapon sets in your new leveling range, you still have 57 weapon sets to add weapons for the new job to; that's an additional 114 weapons. Over the course of this expansion, you have, say, 26 weapon sets, another endgame weapon, and 4 glowy weapons introduced.

When your next expansion comes out and you add two more jobs, you now have a staggering 176 extra weapons to make in order to add your new jobs to all the past weapon sets, in addition to all the design work for the current expansion.

It's one thing if the new job starts at level 1; there's some subset of that range you must make weapons for. But in the case where the job starts already at a higher level, I can absolutely see feeling like "this is going to become an exponentially greater workload any time we add a new job" and sort of cutting your losses, at which point you either say "no more new jobs" or you say "yeah no more making lower-level weapons we don't need to". (The game company where I used to work would absolutely have taken that path, for the record, and they are not the only one.)

All of which is, admittedly, sort of tangential to my actual point: you were asking why they didn't save time by just reusing an existing model and retexturing it for the deep dungeon weapons, which was what my example was meant to answer.

Namely: when they do expand on older sets with weapons for new jobs, they make those weapons match the aesthetic of the set. If they chose to add weapons to older sets but just reuse completely unrelated models from some other set -- say, using an Exarchic weapon model for the Thornmarch EX Moogle weapon for RPR -- I guarantee you people would be airing their grievances over that here. (And rightly so.)

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Are you done projecting?

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Never! I'll project everything onto everyone and there's nothing you can do to stop me! (*≧▽≦)ﾉｼ))
But now you're changing the subject without answering my questions, the very sin you keep blaming others of. (*´ω｀)o

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Never! I'll project everything onto everyone and there's nothing you can do to stop me! (*≧▽≦)ﾉｼ))
But now you're changing the subject without answering my questions, the very sin you keep blaming others of. (*´ω｀)o

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Stop asking dumb questions. :rolleyes: No, I'm not annoyed. Not cranky either. I'll keep hopping back here to answer.

These forums are a comedy of errors. From the delusions of story QC to the inability of folks to read straight from text instead of projecting their feelings onto it. The desperate pleas for change that get a handful of likes. Let's mention Kaiten here for good measure.

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

oh, hi, Deveryn. How long... I expected a more elaborate answer.

Tell me, what's your opinion about Square Memex being a lazy company?

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Hard to say. I only deal with XIV these days.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Stop asking dumb questions. :rolleyes: No, I'm not annoyed.

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Then why do you come onto the forums if all you're going to do is be cranky? ( ‐∧‐)ゞ

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Hard to say. I only deal with XIV these days.

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no problem, the company is lazy in this game, too.

As I have said before, if you introduce a new crafted weapon set, but don't include the jobs that are active at the time, then it makes you look lazy and or cheap. No way around it.

I COULD understand if they don't want to revisit older crafted sets like the ARR ones, not really ideal, and very much open to criticism, but understandable.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Deveryn, why do you keep coming to the forums when you clearly hate them? (´o｀; ) ？

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LARPing as Square's product management is a hell of a drug.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

Explain why they added the Dzi of the Crimson Lotus and the Naigama of the Crimson Lotus when they are 85 iLvls lower than the weapons you get for free from unlocking those two jobs. The Dzi of the Crimson Lotus and the Naigama of the Crimson Lotus weapons are literally "useless" as you said. They had to add the Padjali, Kinna and Empyrean weapons for Sage and Reaper but they didn't need to add the two Crimson Lotus weapons but they did. Please explain why.

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This might be the set we get for the second ultimate this expansion if they added sage and reaper weapons to that set.