p7s is the worst fight i've ever done in this game

it's not a hard fight but the way it's laid out is just irritating. i get irritated/bothered sometimes by content in this game, at most i will likely discuss it with my friends. rarely do i come to a forum or something like this. p7s is just that bad.

so here you have this 11:10 minute long fight

the first 7-8 minutes are just trivially easy mechanics, like after seeing them a few times you'd have to close your eyes to mess up, it's that easy

but then the last 3 minutes are when the tough mechanics actually kick in. imagine that. 7-8 minutes of braindead monotony and you mess up on purgation (which is a solid minute and a half or so of running back and forth between platforms, stacking/spreading accordingly) before the harvest mechanics, really the only difficult mechanics of the fight.

it's about as bad as e7s was in terms of just it being insultingly braindead and easy

thank the cancerous streamers and ecelebs like arthars and xeno and mr happy for suggesting that if they put phase 3 of dragonsong's reprise at the end of the fight, that it would become the hardest phase and fight in the entire game
devs listened.

How do you mess up purgation thought?

Its just TH stack.. or DPS stack.. its completely braindead, same with the harvests.

P8 however.. Oh lordy.. being a healer main is a tough time when 4 autos and the tank is dead.

At times it honestly doesnt feel like a savage fight. It even shows the stack markers. There is so much dead waiting on platforms to appear. Harvests are only hard if you have trouble seeing what egg spawns where, the positioning isnt particularly tight and death's harvest can just be cheesed with double tank invuln. Getting in position can be a bit awkward because you cant cross the middle but that's about it. As drk I can just take the stack tankbuster alone without invuln, as far as I know people did that week 1 already which is just wild.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

thank the cancerous streamers and ecelebs like arthars and xeno and mr happy for suggesting that if they put phase 3 of dragonsong's reprise at the end of the fight, that it would become the hardest phase and fight in the entire game
devs listened.

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If streamers had the influence you think they have, the game would look vastly different. Please stop this useless hate.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

thank the cancerous streamers and ecelebs like arthars and xeno and mr happy for suggesting that if they put phase 3 of dragonsong's reprise at the end of the fight, that it would become the hardest phase and fight in the entire game
devs listened.

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What? 3rd fights being absurdly backloaded have been a thing for a long time. Each of the ShB third fight had this issue, how does it have anything to do with streamers?

p6s and p7s are both so much wasted potential, p7s 90% mechanics are either extreme level difficulty or lower .... they didnt even bother to make punch attack harder than normal (they forgot about e4s i guess) not to mention even harvests only difficulty is people not knowing where to go even on week 4 or use cursed strats like oppo war. Both fights are almost completly fixed and the only saving grace is good first turn p5s.

I like P7S - it's way better than P3S

Backloaded design is something they have done before- very reminiscent of UCOB.

I cant say I am the biggest fan of its use for savage fights.

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Originally Posted by drtasteyummy

I've started raiding with this tier and lol man they use the cheapest tricks to make content so much "harder" and longer to progress

- Put hard mechanics at the very end to force the fight pratice length (Cachexia2, FemineDeathWar, Gorgon2)
- Use obnoxious little safe areas where you have to stand pixel perfect on vague spots
- Implement patterns that are almost impossible to reverse on the spot until you did so many tries that you can evaluate a set pattern from it and it becomes ResidentSleeper
- Use effects that are incredible hard to spot, evaluate or give you a visual false representation of the correct hitbox example P7s links or P8s fourfold "outbursts" or P8s command explosions

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While backloaded difficulty makes running through the early fight a chore, there aren't any pixel-perfect safe spots or vague safe spots this tier. Learn to use the the designs on the floor to figure things out, they're often incredibly deliberate. Also can't think of any false representations of hitboxes other than the incredibly deliberate ones in the Kefka fight - but I've not done P2 of P8S yet, still working on the doorboss.

I haven't been raiding in Endwalker but I have a hard time believing P7S could be worse than O7S.

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Originally Posted by Stasya

not to mention even harvests only difficulty is people not knowing where to go even on week 4 or use cursed strats like oppo war.

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What's wrong with opposite war? :eek:

I tried inumaru war once and the healers died when they both got minotaur with a short tether.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

thank the cancerous streamers and ecelebs like arthars and xeno and mr happy for suggesting that if they put phase 3 of dragonsong's reprise at the end of the fight, that it would become the hardest phase and fight in the entire game
devs listened.

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But Purg and JP Harvests aren't even difficult. Find your spot through easy deduction and you're home free. My guess is that boredom is an actual mechanic and comes in full force upon reaching Famine.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

What's wrong with opposite war? :eek:

I tried inumaru war once and the healers died when they both got minotaur with a short tether.

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If one person messes up "All Far War" the run is ruined. Just do "All Close JP WAR" (Inumaru) so only people who mess up get the shaft they deserve.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

What's wrong with opposite war? :eek:

I tried inumaru war once and the healers died when they both got minotaur with a short tether.

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The problem with opposite war is that the diagram that circulated for the first 3 weeks was actually just wrong, and essentially guaranteed at least one person would just die 100% of the time. The DPS check was low, so people just shrugged it off and cleared anyway with deaths basically every run.

Inumaru and Hector war are better imo, but you do need to throw some mits so the people with short tether mino don't explode.

P7S is definitely one of the most unfun savage fights I've played. 7 Minutes of nothing, a low DPS check, and 3 final mechanics that PF glue sniffers have never learned how to properly do 4 weeks in. I know multiple people who have cleared p7s without ever learning how to do War, Famine or Death properly, and they continue to haunt weekly reclears griefing parties.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

P7S is definitely one of the most unfun savage fights I've played. 7 Minutes of nothing, a low DPS check, and 3 final mechanics that PF glue sniffers have never learned how to properly do 4 weeks in. I know multiple people who have cleared p7s without ever learning how to do War, Famine or Death properly, and they continue to haunt weekly reclears griefing parties.

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Nothing like getting to DEATH or WAR with two tethers on ya cuz someone couldn't get their simple mechanic right.

Eh, I’ve enjoyed progging all of them. Savage is a challenge, no matter where that challenge comes from. Whether it’s bad players, difficult mechanics, cheap trick mechanics, boring you to death and then making you do hard mechanics. It’s all just different flavors of difficulty I enjoy overcoming and being tested by. As such, I take these challenges for what they are and enjoy overcoming them. There is no correct battle design, just subjective preferences. Sure people may enjoy some fights over others but I don’t want to see the fights homogenized just cause people complained about a design they did not enjoy.

And as for the “it’s not even hard” crowd, neither is phase 3 in DSR or any fight once you know what you’re doing. It all becomes brain dead with time. So the challenge is always to clear with the given people/circumstances. In PF the challenge has always been coordinating with 8 randoms. This tier it’s no different.

Backloading fights isn't really anything new. I can't comment too much on Stormblood savage design as delta was the only one I did when it was relevant back then, but I know UWU they load like, the bulk of the difficulty into Ultima so the rest put me to sleep. (depending on how good your group is at gaols). I remember many fights in Eden sticking the harder mechanics in the latter part of the fights. (E2S they even put the hardest mechanic as the final mechanic) But I agree they could do something to make the rest of P7S interesting, it's a snooze fest until you get to the last 3 mechanics. I don't dislike the fight, I strongly prefer it over P3S, but it's not terribly exciting.

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Originally Posted by angienessyo

Backloading fights isn't really anything new. I can't comment too much on Stormblood savage design as delta was the only one I did when it was relevant back then, but I know UWU they load like, the bulk of the difficulty into Ultima so the rest put me to sleep. (depending on how good your group is at gaols). I remember many fights in Eden sticking the harder mechanics in the latter part of the fights. (E2S they even put the hardest mechanic as the final mechanic) But I agree they could do something to make the rest of P7S interesting, it's a snooze fest until you get to the last 3 mechanics. I don't dislike the fight, I strongly prefer it over P3S, but it's not terribly exciting.

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Stormblood had the opposite issue, at least when it came to the final floors.
The bosses would do their final new mechanic at 50% and then just repeat the same mechanic rotation from the beginning until they reached the final mechanic again where they'd enrage instead.

P7S is legitimately one of the worst Savage fights we've seen in 5 years.

It's incredibly boring and incredibly long with only three mechanics and they are all at the end. The boss is a striking dummy for 9 minutes - 75% of it's health. Then it just rapid fires the only three mechanics of note which really aren't that hard either, but they are incredibly punishing with one person being out of line meaning everyone dies. Then you get to hit the striking dummy for another 9 minutes.

With pf this fight is honestly horrible to get your first clear on. Multiple variants of how people deal with the harvests. Seen at least three different setups so far, especially for War. Can't really afford a single dps death leading up to those as from what I've seen you need the buffer for mistakes rotation wise at harvests else you lack damage for kill. Wish they were spread out more, not all the hard mechanics at the end.

Its just too slow but at the same time not even harder than p3s. In other fights you die and wondering how or why. In this fight theres a set pattern (like p6s) and if you die you know why, its because you almost fell asleep before war harvest

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

it's not a hard fight but the way it's laid out is just irritating. i get irritated/bothered sometimes by content in this game, at most i will likely discuss it with my friends. rarely do i come to a forum or something like this. p7s is just that bad.

so here you have this 11:10 minute long fight

the first 7-8 minutes are just trivially easy mechanics, like after seeing them a few times you'd have to close your eyes to mess up, it's that easy

but then the last 3 minutes are when the tough mechanics actually kick in. imagine that. 7-8 minutes of braindead monotony and you mess up on purgation (which is a solid minute and a half or so of running back and forth between platforms, stacking/spreading accordingly) before the harvest mechanics, really the only difficult mechanics of the fight.

it's about as bad as e7s was in terms of just it being insultingly braindead and easy

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I don't disagree with the points you made themselves, but I'd have to assume that you haven't done many fights if you think this one is the worst out of any fight in the game that you've done. Yes, P7S is a very flawed fight, but it's not the worst fight in this entire game, and I don't think it's really close enough to that where you could make a great argument for it being so, even if you exclude any non-savage raid/EX trial fights. There's just so many worse fights out there that I don't think that this one is the end all be all of bad fights.

I haven't cleared it myself yet, but I have hit enrage, so I think I have the experience to agree that the fight is too easy. It's been fun progging it, but it's definitely too easy for a third turn. If this was the first turn of the tier, this would be somewhat acceptable in difficulty (and even then I'd prefer a small buff to the fight), but it's way too easy for the third boss. I think they got the feedback on Phoinix being too hard for PF and made Agdistis too easy in an attempt to avoid the same mistake. Hopefully they take the feedback on this fight and make P11 the perfectly balanced difficulty, but only time will tell for whether that'll happen.

For the mechanics, they're all too easy to solve. Even purgation is braindead with sleepo (especially with the uh... slightly less than legal waymarks), and the harvests aren't that bad either. I kinda wish that they did more with the platforms and restricting your movement. There's only a few times where the arena is reduced to the three circle with no bridges connecting them, and new ground is made during the next mechanic for you to move to in both occasions. I think having a part of the fight where you're stuck on the small circle and have to solve mechanics with that limited area would have been a great addition. They could have also made new shapes with the arena. I know they made the new 'Y' in the middle, connecting the three circles, but I'm thinking of completely new layouts. Maybe a triangle platform? Also, too much of the fight is telegraphed. They should have removed the arrow markers showing which punch was coming and either had it be a cast (left/right punch) or a visual telegraph (the arm shaking). It all honestly feels like they tried to stay too true to normal mode outside of the new animal type/tethers changing what they do. They didn't really take the concepts from P7N and mix them up like other fights do.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...46/unknown.png

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

thank the cancerous streamers and ecelebs like arthars and xeno and mr happy for suggesting that if they put phase 3 of dragonsong's reprise at the end of the fight, that it would become the hardest phase and fight in the entire game
devs listened.

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Another streamer hater, nothing new

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

thank the cancerous streamers and ecelebs like arthars and xeno and mr happy for suggesting that if they put phase 3 of dragonsong's reprise at the end of the fight, that it would become the hardest phase and fight in the entire game
devs listened.

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The idea that a fight should escalate in challenge as it goes on is correct though, or you should at least make sure the last thing you do is the hardest thing if you want a fight with more ups and downs.

I agree it's... God awful.

As a tank I have to do some things but DPS are probably bored to death...
Even if you ask me right here right now, there's no mechanics I can remember beyond Purgation and the 3 harvests.

I'm lying a bit since I won't forget the towers and bird during the big platform phase.
But yes for a 3rd floor it's disappointing, even more than E7S.

Thought I looked back at mechanics during Deltascape and Sigmascape, we didn't had a lot to be fair...

I've done worse fights.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

I don't disagree with the points you made themselves, but I'd have to assume that you haven't done many fights if you think this one is the worst out of any fight in the game that you've done. Yes, P7S is a very flawed fight, but it's not the worst fight in this entire game, and I don't think it's really close enough to that where you could make a great argument for it being so, even if you exclude any non-savage raid/EX trial fights. There's just so many worse fights out there that I don't think that this one is the end all be all of bad fights.

I haven't cleared it myself yet, but I have hit enrage, so I think I have the experience to agree that the fight is too easy. It's been fun progging it, but it's definitely too easy for a third turn. If this was the first turn of the tier, this would be somewhat acceptable in difficulty (and even then I'd prefer a small buff to the fight), but it's way too easy for the third boss. I think they got the feedback on Phoinix being too hard for PF and made Agdistis too easy in an attempt to avoid the same mistake. Hopefully they take the feedback on this fight and make P11 the perfectly balanced difficulty, but only time will tell for whether that'll happen.

For the mechanics, they're all too easy to solve. Even purgation is braindead with sleepo (especially with the uh... slightly less than legal waymarks), and the harvests aren't that bad either. I kinda wish that they did more with the platforms and restricting your movement. There's only a few times where the arena is reduced to the three circle with no bridges connecting them, and new ground is made during the next mechanic for you to move to in both occasions. I think having a part of the fight where you're stuck on the small circle and have to solve mechanics with that limited area would have been a great addition. They could have also made new shapes with the arena. I know they made the new 'Y' in the middle, connecting the three circles, but I'm thinking of completely new layouts. Maybe a triangle platform? Also, too much of the fight is telegraphed. They should have removed the arrow markers showing which punch was coming and either had it be a cast (left/right punch) or a visual telegraph (the arm shaking). It all honestly feels like they tried to stay too true to normal mode outside of the new animal type/tethers changing what they do. They didn't really take the concepts from P7N and mix them up like other fights do.

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i cleared all 3 eden tiers on content, all shb extremes on content, asphodelos on content, all but 1 of the endwalker extremes and both ucob and uwu and i have to say that this is the most mindnumbing savage i've ever done.

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Originally Posted by Petite

If one person messes up "All Far War" the run is ruined. Just do "All Close JP WAR" (Inumaru) so only people who mess up get the shaft they deserve.

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Inumaru WAR is a poor strat. Just waste 20% mit on something that should be easy. There are a few variations of oppo War that are quite safe that most people haven't even picked up on.

PF strats for both 6 and 7 are just bad this tier. Limit cut is convoluted, No-Uptime-Agonies, Cachexia markers are unnecessarily risky, people still refusing to tank lb Cachexia II, no mit coordinations for Purgation, Inumaru War and so on. Makes me glad to have a static to run with.

The only poor strat here is opposite WAR. It's lazy and only makes it end more dangerous to survive if one is not in the correct position either on the bridge for Cow or Mino bait close to it.

Waste 20% mit? You do know there's literally no notable mechanics after war right? In reclear the boss dies at that point.

P3S was not worth the stress imo. Orange shit, punishing adds phase where people held their bursts, and weird FoA strats. cough Elmo. I should've abandoned that tier

P7S is on the extreme side where not much happens until the last phase.

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

it's not a hard fight but the way it's laid out is just irritating. i get irritated/bothered sometimes by content in this game, at most i will likely discuss it with my friends. rarely do i come to a forum or something like this. p7s is just that bad.

so here you have this 11:10 minute long fight

the first 7-8 minutes are just trivially easy mechanics, like after seeing them a few times you'd have to close your eyes to mess up, it's that easy

but then the last 3 minutes are when the tough mechanics actually kick in. imagine that. 7-8 minutes of braindead monotony and you mess up on purgation (which is a solid minute and a half or so of running back and forth between platforms, stacking/spreading accordingly) before the harvest mechanics, really the only difficult mechanics of the fight.

it's about as bad as e7s was in terms of just it being insultingly braindead and easy

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used to think this way but what is harder makes us stronger...to alot of people having to do nonstop mechanics until the end of the fight is daunting to alot of people which is something ffxiv should do more instead of the normal strat of "if you know the final mechanic of a fight, the fight repeats" we need difficulty in these high tier fights to break the monotony of ease from alliance/extreme/and dungeons

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Originally Posted by NotACapitalist

P3S was not worth the stress imo. Orange shit, punishing adds phase where people held their bursts, and weird FoA strats. cough Elmo. I should've abandoned that tier

P7S is on the extreme side where not much happens until the last phase.

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So basically P7S is the equivalent of Susano EX?

I'm serious annoyed by people who say this fight is easy. Sure the first parts are not bad but the triple harvest is far from easy with all the strate going around. Maybe it's more easy if you got the gear upgrades yet pleàse remember not everyone is so lucky with rolls and most probably still going around with minimal upgrades.

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Originally Posted by Meowdyj

I'm serious annoyed by people who say this fight is easy. Sure the first parts are not bad but the triple harvest is far from easy with all the strate going around. Maybe it's more easy if you got the gear upgrades yet pleàse remember not everyone is so lucky with rolls and most probably still going around with minimal upgrades.

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Its not about gear.

First War: Stand at 2 eggs, stack forward with no tethers, move to set location if you get tether. Easy.
Second War: Just move to pre-assigned braindead location using the Bole egg as relative north, tanks adjust to empty bridge. Easy.
Third War: Basically the same as the first...

After that? Hit the training dummy till it dies.

The only change we made to this strat was stretch birds instead of CW.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...770&height=896

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Originally Posted by Meowdyj

I'm serious annoyed by people who say this fight is easy. Sure the first parts are not bad but the triple harvest is far from easy with all the strate going around. Maybe it's more easy if you got the gear upgrades yet pleàse remember not everyone is so lucky with rolls and most probably still going around with minimal upgrades.

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P7S set a new record, being the fastest third fight to die in the game's history. That's without any extra gear by the way. Not even a tome weapon since you need to actually kill P7 to get one.

It's absolutely easy relatively to several other Savage encounters. A good group will get it down to 30% week 1 before even Purgation starts casting, which is ridiculous when you consider Proto-Carbuncle has done more in that same length of time despite being the first encounter. After the Sleepo strat, even Purgation is a complete meme. P7S is essentially a mechanic and a half at this point. Famine is almost entirely free, Death is free with tank invulns and leaves War as the only reason pain point. Which, ironically, will start being skipped even by PF soon enough.