It can't be broken with purify. Why can't it be broken with purify?
You give a class an aoe stun and an unbreakable CC?
What?
WhiteMage Imp: Nononono
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09-18-2022, 12:40 AMyaba_gabagoolWhiteMage Imp: Nononono
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09-18-2022, 01:41 AMNikotohello the stun is perfectly balancedQuote:
Originally Posted by yaba_gabagool
btw i main whm :3 -
09-18-2022, 03:38 AMReinhardt_AzureheimIt also can't be defended with the bonus after Purify, it ignores that too.Quote:
Originally Posted by yaba_gabagool
Only Guard works. -
09-18-2022, 03:39 AMReinhardt_AzureheimTBH the stun I mind little, gotta give WHM oomph somehow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikoto
Miracle of Nature ignoring every CC rule in the book is not ok though. -
09-18-2022, 05:25 AMyaba_gabagoolYeah Miracle of Nature has to go. It can shut down warrior lb in a second, even though warrior lb is supposed to make you cc immune.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim
Dont understand how it's survived this long considering how crazy WHM kit is atm. -
09-18-2022, 05:26 AMReinhardt_AzureheimIt should honestly just be a Silence be done with it. I wouldn't mind if WHM got buffs in other places if having Miracle meant so much to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by yaba_gabagool
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09-18-2022, 07:22 AMAneshda
Yes SE ruin every Job that makes my PvP to Hell!
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09-18-2022, 07:32 AMElfidan
Miracle of Nature is bullshit and always has been. They don't even get what's wrong with it as they thought it was the range. It's just like the Death linking "nerf" which failed to solve the issue. Meanwhile every comparable CC effect is tied to a limit break. It's totally absurd. Reaper has 2/3 of its CC locked behind it's LB which generally gets you killed due to animation locking. Why is there animation locking? Did we not learn from beating DRG over the head for a damn decade with that shit? This is a touchy subject for me.
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09-18-2022, 11:09 AMNiroken
Wasn't WHM the class that had the lowest win rate out of any other class?
Please inform me what we should give WHM instead when other classes also have stuns, instant cast abilities and even one shots/massive burst damage. Maybe +5% extra healing on a heal that is worse then the ability every character gets and doesn't require a cast time? -
09-18-2022, 11:16 AMReimmi
Make it break on damage and it's fine
Or make it purifyable and it's fine.
Both makes it just a guaranteed frag if used at relatively low hp. and thats lame -
09-19-2022, 12:13 AMReinhardt_AzureheimThe winrate alone does not mean anything if WHM is the most played healer and less experienced WHMs get consistently dunked on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niroken
Making Miracle of Nature not ignore Purify or Resilience is basically all we ask for. -
09-20-2022, 03:20 AMKarasioWin rate alone doesn't paint the whole picture here. White mage was seen as the best by the community at large which meant a higher playerbase and more lost games. I really wish they'd gone more in depth with the win rates at least, showing win rates by division or by low, mid and high ranks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niroken
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09-20-2022, 04:40 AMflowerfairy
I'm in the minority here but I think it's fine that WHM is the only one with a non-Purifiable CC ability. Imp is certainly devastating when used right but it's on a 25s cooldown which is almost half the LB charge rate and WHM doesn't have any other noteworthy tools. Its damage is otherwise lacking and the only other thing it brings is raw healing.
I'd keep Imp non-Purifiable but make it so it can't go through Resilience, so WHM will still have to risk getting close to initialize CC chain. -
09-20-2022, 10:28 AMKnot_D
And you guys gonna ignore other non-Purifiable CC ability like DNC, MNK and RPR's CC? or even the pullup CC like WAR and DRK?
It's funny you guys keep complaining about WHM's poly but ignoring other classes CC... -
09-20-2022, 12:26 PMElfidanYou didn't read, It's the only one you can't purify that isn't attached to a limit break. That's why nobody mentioned them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knot_D
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09-20-2022, 04:48 PMCheremiaAs others have said, winrate without the playrate is unusable data and they did not show us how many whms pollute the pool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niroken
As in: Everybody and their mom plays whm, since it's the "OP" one, its the easy one!
Whm (and war) have been dubbed OP from day one, so everybody plays it. I have never seen the notion shift for whm.
Given, you can just like the playstyle which is completely fine in my book, too.
But there are barely any matches WITHOUT at least one whm in any given team, they are quite literally everywhere (and it's different whms, not the same people)
So, as others have said, winrate without playrate isn't just a thing, since Sch's and Asts and Sages are way rarer and probably have better people behind them where 50+ people can't swing the winrate into the negative.
Also, the winrates "having" to be 50% is a garbage way to balance, since it was what, 2% off of 50? That's not that much and other classes have lower than 50% too and weren't touched.
Aka, Imp should be purifyable, since it's NOT AN LB and therefore should not have special properties as LB's have.
The range decrease barely matters and I'm glad I started playing classes that Impbots can't cancel the lb of really fast (ast and sch, i've been imped FRAME ON of activation of it, not even the sound of the LB was a thing yet, IN FRONTLINES too! Of all things lmao) -
09-20-2022, 09:01 PMBlinding_Awesomeness
There needs to be counterplay around Piggy. Though without testing different methods, I can't say for sure what that is besides "make it purifiable." Otherwise, something fundamental needs to change. Even with its nerfed ranged, Piggy's a very strong skill. It's an instant, can cancel LBs, can't be tracked unless you're keeping up with every single OGCD, punish you harshly for being "in position," and even though Purify doesn't work on it, it comes off cooldown faster than Purify. It's little risk, high reward.
As an aside, I can generally tell when people are using cheats when I get Piggy the instant I come out of Sky High, faster than a human can click on me.
Got my own opinion about those, especially Blota, but the topic is about Piggy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knot_D
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09-21-2022, 02:55 PMAbsurdityAs someone who plays warrior in pvp I can confidently say that Blota is absolutely annoying, especially the delay between it being cast on you and you actually getting pulled, it is however dispellable with purify.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinding_Awesomeness
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09-21-2022, 04:22 PMCheremiaAnd guardable if you don‘t get instant nuked or are fast enough after being pulled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdity
Piggy is only counterable IF you can guard before they use it, smell it… see the future. -
09-21-2022, 04:36 PMSweetPete
I see way more sages and Astros in pvp nowadays. I love white mage but wish their heal didn’t have a cast time. It’s such a waste if you casting cure 2 only for your teammate to get bursted so hard and they die almost instantly before you get the heal off and you just end up healing yourself. I’m not sure why they either won’t make cure 2 instant cast or just switch it with Tetragrammaton or afflatus solace. Every other healer has instant cast heals. And please don’t tell me it will make them op because Astro has macrocosmos and sage has pneuma.
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09-21-2022, 08:46 PMCheremiaSage has no instant heals.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPete
Kardia is not instant and tied to doing damage and Pneuma also has a casttime and 30 second cooldown.
Schs has 2 4000 heals that are more used for the shield (and damage up) than for healing. And Seraph, which is LB.
Now, ast theoretically has 4 5000 heals that can reach 10000 if target is under 50%.
One is a regen and doublecast is a shield (or the other way around, doesnt really matter)
Macrocosmos is very good in situations where people don't get nuked and manage to guard after getting a lot while they have macrocosmos on it.
Whms Cure is 2x 12000 with a 1,44 casttime, that's as much as pneuma has btw.
Additionally, Aquaveil remove cleansable effects, which is pretty good.
Seraph strike does give everybody around you Protect, did you know?
And -what most Whms don't do for some reason - you can target cure 3 to people that need it while YOU RUN OUT OF DANGER. It does NOT need to be used instantly, it's a 10? Second duration, there is enough time to not use it instantly, like most Whms do, it's such a waste.
LB also is just a 40 yalms long regen for 15 Seconds.
As in: Whm is insane in healing output, the casttime is fine. Even Ast with instant heals can't help people that are being nuked, so that is not an issue. And Whm HAS an instant heal every 20 seconds, too. Aoe one too, that heals a buttload if people WOULD use it right and not instantly after seraph strike if nobody has damage.
The most whms do IS healing.
Basically:
As i will say and always have said:
Sage and Sch are not Healers. They can heal? Yes, Sch more so than sage, i can keep people alive if they can help themself.
But are they HEALER healers?
Nope.
Are Ast and WHM the healer healers of pvp?
They are more healer than the other two that's for sure.
Ast and whm being able to heal is fine, whm is perfectly capable of healing a lot if you consider how much LB they can put out and that's just free damage mitigation and a big fat regen
Piggy being literally uncountable other than guarding it (aka the whm wastes it on somebody guarding accidentally more or less) is not fine.
Sage is a DPS, some dps also have healing capabilities that are better than sages. Sage is a dps, not a healer.
Sch is support, not outright healer.