The 7th Circle illegitimate waymarks post is a bit laughable

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...3dacf07111126b

Like, no offense to the team but this is kind of expected, if the arena changes size and there's no way to interact with said arena after the fight has been completed, this is just silly. If you're going to do another fight like this again, set a temporary floor that disappears when the fight begins so we can place waymarks on them to prevent this from being an issue. :confused:

It's not a surprise that illegitimate waymarks was used because you didn't offer the playerbase to put them there in the first place. It's not something you have to do when the arena shrinks, but when it grows, you need to give us a way if 70% of the fight is on the bigger arena. :confused:

I am aware this is being addressed, but the fact this was a problem is what baffles me. Hindsight is 20/20 and it wasn't there for P7S

I've never seen a more BS reason to ban (even if non permanent) someone

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Originally Posted by FireMage

I've never seen a more BS reason to ban (even if non permanent) someone

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The one where the player got b&d for posting nsfw pics using ingame screenshots from twitter. That was real knee slapper, lol.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

I've never seen a more BS reason to ban (even if non permanent) someone

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Did they ban anyone though?

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we will not issue an account penalty for the use of an illegitimate waymark by saving/loading them in the save slots.

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That's what I read. I'm assuming at the worst some streamers or youtubers that showed themselves using it might've been banned but no one else.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Did they ban anyone though?

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Why yes, they did! It's actually the funniest part about this entire post.

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After investigation, we have identified the first player who placed the illegitimate waymarks and will be issuing an account penalty for the illicit activity.

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I disagree with banning the player. Waymarks have traditionally been used for setting up strategies in fights and if the stage transforms and doesn’t allow waymarks to be placed in key areas of the battle when the stage has changed it defeats the purpose of the system.

Further more they are implementing fixes so they are agreeing the offending parties had a point. Banning people and then later implementing their fixes is a rather ungrateful way to show appreciation for their feedback. It simply shows begrudging acceptance.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I disagree with banning the player. Waymarks have traditionally been used for setting up strategies in fights and if the stage transforms and doesn’t allow waymarks to be placed in key areas of the battle when the stage has changed it defeats the purpose of the system.

Further more they are implementing fixes so they are agreeing the offending parties had a point. Banning people and then later implementing their fixes is a rather ungrateful way to show appreciation for their feedback. It simply shows begrudging acceptance.

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"B-b-but 3rd party stuff is evil"

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I disagree with banning the player. Waymarks have traditionally been used for setting up strategies in fights and if the stage transforms and doesn’t allow waymarks to be placed in key areas of the battle when the stage has changed it defeats the purpose of the system.

Further more they are implementing fixes so they are agreeing the offending parties had a point. Banning people and then later implementing their fixes is a rather ungrateful way to show appreciation for their feedback. It simply shows begrudging acceptance.

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Exactly, the player shouldn't have received a ban. It's beyond insulting and I think that player is a hero, not a villain.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I disagree with banning the player. Waymarks have traditionally been used for setting up strategies in fights and if the stage transforms and doesn’t allow waymarks to be placed in key areas of the battle when the stage has changed it defeats the purpose of the system.

Further more they are implementing fixes so they are agreeing the offending parties had a point. Banning people and then later implementing their fixes is a rather ungrateful way to show appreciation for their feedback. It simply shows begrudging acceptance.

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Their whole reaction to third party tools has been comically backwards. Twice now they're implemented changes directly in response to these tools. Which will only further incentive their use because it wasn't until people kept using them that they did anything.

SE, take back the strike on that player. That is so unbelievably petty and has been a mismanagement of time and resources.

Be better so people don't have to feel required to use tools for basic stuff that should be in the game by default and stop punishing players for your incompetence.

I still don't understand the obsession with waymarks to the point they use 3rd party tools. They are useful, but can be ommited on quite a few fights. The fact that even with waymarks, people don't know where to go speaks about the quality of the players doing savage right now. They don't understand the mechanics, they just follow instructions.

Anyways, my opinions aside, I'm glad the team has aknowledge this issue for you guys, and is giving you some sort of alternative for your issue at some point, and my condolences for the people banned for using prohibited tools.

It seems like they have a white knight of who reported the illegal waymark based of this comment on reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...eb2x&context=3

Back in FFXI…. One of those stories. There was the great salvage dup ban. Wasn’t a 3rd party thing it was a error in coding that allowed people to take 1 drop. Rework the parties and now have 3 drops. SE caught on and did a mass Permanent Ban thousands of accounts got deleted. No 3rd party tools, nothing illegal. Was just a mistake SE made that we found. So really it’s kinda a light punishment for them. Old SE would have banned anyone that saved them.

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

It seems like they have a white knight of who did the illegal waymark based of this comment on reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...eb2x&context=3

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Well that's.... damn wow...

The fact that they are penalizing the player then implementing the same thing is kinda scummy.

As for the jp reporting the person. They hate 3rd party tools so they are quick to mass report ppl who are caught using em. If you look up other ppl banned for them you can read about the mass reports.

SE continuing to punish players who try to make their dumb decisions and poor design/planning less of a headache for everyone. Not surprised.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Their whole reaction to third party tools has been comically backwards. Twice now they're implemented changes directly in response to these tools. Which will only further incentive their use because it wasn't until people kept using them that they did anything.

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what was the first?

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Originally Posted by Imora

what was the first?

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It was the tool used in 5.1 with TEA in changing the markers mid fight to accommodate for the final phase with exatrines.

SE makes a shit system and the player who finds a way to circumvent it gets punished. Like clockwork.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

It was the tool used in 5.1 with TEA in changing the markers mid fight to accommodate for the final phase with exatrines.

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Oooh I see.

Crime and Punishment

the only reason they made a statement about it is because JP players are screeching at eachother and refuse to play with other people who use those waymarks

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Originally Posted by Restonance

SE makes a shit system and the player who finds a way to circumvent it gets punished. Like clockwork.

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Circumvented with the use of third party tools. Doing so is always punishable and the playerbase still seems oblivious to this or is willing to take the risk doing said activities. Bit conflicted on the playerban and then allowing exactly what the player did however. Granted, don't think anyone knows what the punishment exactly was? If it was a multi-day ban that seems a bit excessive given the solution, but if it was a 1 Day ban well, that's kinda fair.

I agree with OP though, if the arena is going to change design, then the accomodating spaces should have been targetable before the fight began (when these fights were frst implemented) like they did with E3S. They could also just allow players to place waymarks specifically in dead space but I'm assuming that ground targetting, furniture placement and waymarks are all working off a similar system.

One could argue, and the dev stance probably is, that players could have communicated the problem here (inability to place waymarks as needed) and the implemented change would've come out regardless, without the need to utilize third party tools to circumvent current restrictions.

Players have a valid stance, that this is an issue for the fight. But is also something devs probably would've accommodated without any fuss if players were patient.

In the end, they gotta hand down some punishment, or else they're not even enforcing their own ToS. Shitty, maybe, but I'd rather that than the implication that players can get away with "cheating" (when found out).

These people can track down who set the very first illegal markers in a raid that has been copied a million times, they can't track gold buyers and wintraders but that was possible with ease.

SE always holding ur back by giving u big laughs

I'm not sure this is the same case as someone using a UI add-on, (like increasing size of numbers) because this one just places markers improperly straight up. In this particular case the markers are used to make a mechanic completely braindead, so if you couldn't place them, it'd make the movement a little bit more risky. At this point everyone is trained so the markers are not needed but it's just my two cents. It's like me loading into a fight and placing a way marker out of bounds because the arena changes mid fight when I hadn't beaten the fight yet.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

It was the tool used in 5.1 with TEA in changing the markers mid fight to accommodate for the final phase with exatrines.

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See, I think that one crosses the line; shifting waymarks around mid-fight is something you definitely cannot do without the aid of additional tools, and it allows so much potential cheating in terms of having something literally just mark "go here". There's eight waymarks, you could have a tool that solved for every single player individually and they just had to follow their waymarks. Changing things so that markers cannot be shifted mid-combat seems reasonable as a way to prevent that.

But placing markers outside of the arena can be done by just editing a file -- not a part of the game data, a per-character data file saved into your Documents directory -- to change your marker presets; you don't need modifications to the game code, or third-party modifications. It's functionally not that different than editing a .ini or .cfg file. So I admit I think this one's kind of an overreaction, even if I strongly suspect the original waymarks in this case were probably created via an add-on/mod.

This is basically what they said they'd do the last time they came out with a post about 3rd party tools.
"If you're using useful 3rd party tools, we'll ban you for using them, then implement that same functionality that we banned you for"

At least they're consistent I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

One could argue, and the dev stance probably is, that players could have communicated the problem here (inability to place waymarks as needed) and the implemented change would've come out regardless, without the need to utilize third party tools to circumvent current restrictions.

Players have a valid stance, that this is an issue for the fight. But is also something devs probably would've accommodated without any fuss if players were patient.

In the end, they gotta hand down some punishment, or else they're not even enforcing their own ToS. Shitty, maybe, but I'd rather that than the implication that players can get away with "cheating" (when found out).

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that's bullshit and you know it

they dont care about any feedback outside of JP feedback. do you think it's coincidence that whenever they held those contests for gear, hairstyles, weapons, etc that the vast vast majority of them were by japanese artists?

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

One could argue, and the dev stance probably is, that players could have communicated the problem here (inability to place waymarks as needed) and the implemented change would've come out regardless, without the need to utilize third party tools to circumvent current restrictions.

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And wait until 6.4, when the tier is no longer relevant, for them to implement those changes? They're extremely slow at implementing any kind of QoL.

Talk shit get hit. Don't use plugins and then bitch and moan about getting banned.
You knew what you were getting into.

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Originally Posted by Martynek

Talk shit get hit. Don't use plugins and then bitch and moan about getting banned.
You knew what you were getting into.

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If it weren't for people using plugins, we wouldn't currently have the ability to make ability timers large and centered, nor would Squenix state they intend to make it possible to place waymarks legally like this mod did.

You can hate them, but they're directly responsible for making your game better.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

If it weren't for people using plugins, we wouldn't currently have the ability to make ability timers large and centered, nor would Squenix state they intend to make it possible to place waymarks legally like this mod did.

You can hate them, but they're directly responsible for making your game better.

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Why do you think I hate them? The only ones I "hate" (and that's a very strong word, I'd say "pity") are the ones who prance around like idiots, parading around their cheats, insist that they aren't breaking the rules and then act like it's not their fault when they get banned for it.
You wanna use em, sure, go ahead, although if you use things that give you an edge in raiding, I might think less of your clears.

As for the "people using plugins are the reason we get improvements" part, now I'm just waiting for us to get better action binding options, chat bubbles, and a character equip screen that isn't wonky. Any time now...

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Originally Posted by Martynek

Why do you think I hate them? The only ones I "hate" (and that's a very strong word, I'd say "pity") are the ones who prance around like idiots, parading around their cheats

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Cheats requires an unfair advantage over the system. Not the case. Use a better word

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Cheats requires an unfair advantage over the system. Not the case. Use a better word

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You have an unfair advantage over a console or unmodded PC player.
You are cheating.

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Originally Posted by Martynek

Why do you think I hate them? The only ones I "hate" (and that's a very strong word, I'd say "pity") are the ones who prance around like idiots, parading around their cheats, insist that they aren't breaking the rules and then act like it's not their fault when they get banned for it.
You wanna use em, sure, go ahead, although if you use things that give you an edge in raiding, I might think less of your clears.

As for the "people using plugins are the reason we get improvements" part, now I'm just waiting for us to get better action binding options, chat bubbles, and a character equip screen that isn't wonky. Any time now...

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I guarantee if they didn't talk so much shit, Squenix wouldn't be nearly as quick to implement the fixes that someone else came up with.
QoL comes out at a glacial pace regardless. Case in point, the CD timer change. How long has that been around.

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Originally Posted by Martynek

You have an unfair advantage over a console or unmodded PC player.
You are cheating.

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You really don't. Try again

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Originally Posted by Martynek

You have an unfair advantage over a console or unmodded PC player.
You are cheating.

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How, when anyone could share the illegal waymarks and actually did? Those waymarks are now the standard for P7S parties.

Hmm, its almost as if the company prefers not to care about their players because thinking rationally isn't a trait they posses as shown with the 5chan brigade....

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Originally Posted by FireMage

You really don't. Try again

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"nuh-uh! i'm not cheating! my addons that let me weave more than the game would normally let me, see mechanics coming before they are telegraphed, automate callouts to free up thinking space for whoever would normally be handling them, and place waymarks in impossible ways to provide greater ease of solving mechanics are TOTALLY fair and NOT an advantage over a console player! honest!"

heh ok