Do you currently enjoy the playstyle of Paladin?You won't when I'm through with it!"But why? :("Because we need to bring up those PLD participation numbers in the game's most popular content, such as cutting-edge Savage clears and static-disbanding Ultimates about elderly men resurrecting yaoi characters by eating reptile organs."...is this sarcasm?"
No? Yes? Maybe? Only vaguely? ...I'm so burnt-out on the developers's repeated inability to foresee, and especially to successfully respond to, certain fundamental design problems, that I think I've lost my ability to take things 100% seriously. Nonetheless, if you want to see Paladins displace other Tanks overnight, this might do the trick."This is overpowered"You always have to ask for too much. If you ask for only exactly what you actually need, the SE developers will respond by giving you an increase of 5 potency on Fast Blade."Homogenization"Yeah, that's gonna happen when we make everyone able to do everything everywhere. Try to just lay back, and think about the animations. You'll always have your animations. Well, until you don't. Farewell, Clean Shot."Skill Expression"
Yeah, sorry, but you're just talking to the wrong person. I've reached the point where I really don't care any more — it's Final Fantasy Fourteen, I'm just here to watch the pretty person in pretty armor run around casting pretty spells while the bad snot lady tries to cleave me."Braindead"Okay, but... but! Think of all the extra mental energy that you'll have for doing all the other brilliant and productive things in your life, such as negotiating nuclear disarmament, or buying Twitter."But I've already seen half or more of these ideas in other threads :mad:"Wow! Incredible! It seems that convergent evolution is taking place before our very eyes! Perhaps that is possibly a hypothetical susggestion that maybe the developers should consider actually implementing those ideas, rather than increasing the potency of Blade of Valor by 15. But, of course, that's just (pertly sips tea) my opinion."I hate all of your ideas. I refuse you. We are not friends."Ha ha that's okay, keep on truckin', I'll just be vibin' here at the edge of the universe playing Gunbreaker
Ruining your Job to make it more desirable: Paladin Edition
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09-11-2022, 05:58 PMEorzean_usernameRuining your Job to make it more desirable: Paladin Edition
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09-11-2022, 06:04 PMEorzean_username
I don't feel like explaining the reasoning for things any more, because honestly who even reads it? So here's some imaginary patch notes:
Fight or Flight- No longer an activated Action.
- Now a Trait.
- Now increases all Physical damage by 5%.
- Now increases movement speed by 5%.
Fight or Flight II- An EXCITING UPGRADE so that leveling up feels EXCITING!
- Still a Trait.
- Increases all Physical damage by 10%.
- Increases movement speed by 10%.
Goring Blade- This action has been removed.
Speed of Light- New Trait.
- Increases Spell Speed by an amount equal to your current Skill Speed.
Expiacion- Now has a maximum of 2 charges.
Circle of Scorn- Now has a maximum of 2 charges.
Divine Impatience- New Trait.
- Activating Expiacion, Holy Spirit, or Holy Circle upon a target currently suffering the Blade of Valor damage-over-time effect will instantly remove the Blade of Valor effect, dealing Unaspected damage equal to the damage remaining in the Blade of Valor damage-over-time effect.
Clemency- No longer a Spell.
- Now an Ability.
- Restores HP of self or target.
- Cure Potency: 2,000
- Additional Effect: Restores to self 50% of HP restored to target.
- Cooldown: 60s
- Maximum charges: 3
Divine Veil- Barrier effect is now applied instantly, and no longer requires a healing effect to trigger it.
- Barrier now also affects the Paladin, because honestly, who cares?
- The additional 400 potency healing effect is no longer applied immediately on activation, and is now applied when the initial Barrier effect is fully-consumed or expires.
- Cooldown increased to 120s.
Passage of Arms- Action renamed to Circle of Arms.
- Action is no longer channeled.
- Action no longer affects the Paladin's Block rate.
- Action is now a radial effect, with a radius of 10 yalms.
- Action now creates a persistent area in which party members will only suffer 85% of all damage inflicted.
- Duration of effect is now fixed at 10 seconds.
- Cooldown increased to 180s.
Cover- Cooldown reduced to 60 seconds.
- No longer costs Oath Gauge.
- No longer transfers detrimental effects suffered by target while Cover is active.
- Now transfers only 50% of damage taken by target while Cover is active.
- All damage transferred by Cover to the Paladin is reduced by 10%.
- Total damage transferred by Cover is now limited to a maximum of 75% of the Paladin's maximum HP.
- Upon expiration of Cover effect, Paladin is healed for 50% of the total damage that was transferred by Cover during its duration.
Sheltron / Holy Sheltron- Primary effect no longer affects the Paladin's Block rate.
- Primary effect now reduces all damage taken by 15% for 8 seconds.
- Knight's Resolve effect: unchanged
- Knight's Benediction effect: unchanged
Bulwarkflage- New Action.
- Increases Block rate by 50%.
- Reduces damage taken by 10%.
- Duration: 20s
- Cooldown: 120s
Plus some generic Potency increases to whatever until it's whatever.Maths are hard and kind-of tedious, so I'm just going to let it be someone else's job — someone who likes spreadsheets wayyyyy more than I do — to apply Potency boosts as-desired to compensate for mutilating the rotation, until target aDPS is achieved, and Gunbreakers are complaining about being locked out of PFs for P12S1.
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"Uhhh, my new rotation seems to be..."Spamming
SouleaterSolid BarrelStorm's PathRoyal Authority over and over again while sometimes usingBloodspillerBurst StrikeStorm's EyeAtonement until it's time toBlood WeaponNo MercyInner ReleaseRequiescat and dump all your OGCDs? That's correct, welcome to Final Fantasy XIV: Burstwalker, please enjoy your stay. -
09-11-2022, 06:31 PMLustre
I hope paladin doesnt get touched aside from potency changes. If it became the same as the other tanks I'd probably quit playing.
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09-11-2022, 07:56 PMJirah
More like Slowwalker, or Walkerwalker ya know for handicap people as apparently that’s the target audience
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09-11-2022, 09:42 PMRithy255I hope paladin gets some changes, but in general it should be kept similar, theirs a difference between good changes and bad changes, I think you can argue changing certain things and keeping certain things, changing stuff on Paladin either way will get people mad because the job has less players but the people who like Paladin really enjoy the differences compared to other tanks I can either see that they will try to simplify paladin to "bring up the player base" or they could leave it unchanged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lustre
I think trying to fix Paladins general Jank and tweaking some abilities such as removing cover cost wouldn't ruin "Paladin" but a total rework to it's kit generally to align with one burst only would ruin Paladin. I can see Paladin go in a lot of directions, I do somewhat fear for the job in the future hoping it doesn't get put into a "use all your burst at once" jobs.
Not every change is good or bad, while I remain hopeful we will get some good changes I just don't like the idea that, any change that isn't strictly a potency one will ruin the job, In general we should be looking for ways to make Paladin more align with the other tanks without ruining its uniqueness and identity which is pretty difficult. -
09-12-2022, 12:45 AMxAFROx
I never understood why they added a cost to Cover at all. The cooldown is so long already.
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09-12-2022, 01:41 AMSilverSkyway
(Fight or Flight
No longer an activated Action.
Now a Trait.
Now increases all Physical damage by 5%.
Now increases movement speed by 5%.
Fight or Flight II
An EXCITING UPGRADE so that leveling up feels EXCITING!
Still a Trait.
Increases all Physical damage by 10%.
Increases movement speed by 10%.)
You had me at movement speed. I then stop reading and gave you a like even if I dislike the rest of your list. FnF should give movement speed. Has flight in the name. lol
I've been leveling a paladin. I like it. I tried War and wasn't a fan and was a bit turn off from pally with the long and static rotation. I didn't like DrG. I do feel, leveling pally, everything is smooth and flows well but, yeah. A lot of weird spam. Which isn't bad per say but weird. I don't know how expand it.
My idea and only big thing is Blade of valor should apply a third dot and not over write Gore blade.?
I don't do EX, so 2cent. -
09-12-2022, 03:30 AMArgyle_DarkheartThis is actually a good idea, but give it to Shake it Off because PLD is stinky and I don't wanna play it anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eorzean_username
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09-12-2022, 05:55 AMDziani don't play all the tanks. i havent even unlocked drk or gnb on any of my characters. but When you play warrior, you do getthe feeling paladin needs some defensive tweaks in terms of cooldowns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lustre
as a paladin for example. if you pop sentinal and then rampart and suddenly your out of cooldowns.. veil does nothing for you. hallowed has such a long cooldown you can barely use it. warrior though can pop holmgang like its candy and even make decent use out of thrill of battle and shake it off...
at this point i dont even know what id suggest other than making veil apply to the paladin and maybe reducing the cooldown on hallowed a bit. or making shelltron longer duration... but theyve butchered the jobs so much it's kinda tough to think of something that isn't just more of the same bs..
IMO cover should cover everything. damage debuffs the whole lot.. It used to. so what if people used it to avoid tank swaps occassionally. thats the kinda of thing that makes skills and jobs actually interesting and fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eorzean_username
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09-12-2022, 11:32 AMSoulSamurai
I think one of the largest issues with Paladin is the rigid rotation that is blatantly flat. There is not a single unload phase in it like a GNB DRK or War. Each of these have a build up of some sort to unleash damage. Paladin is just a flat damage line. I think a simple played out version would be a OGCD 3 stack confiter spell to use... say.. ever 2 minutes? Or a GNB continuation to attonement. Atonement -> Confiter x3. This boosts burst phases and allows a mixture of sword and spell combo.
However in my opinion the biggest let down is the only guy with a shield is the worst at mitigating damage. The half white mage is also not the best healer (self). The one with the most supposed utility really isnt. But yet all these weaknesses and we are not even close to anything for damage wise.
I think holy sheltron healing needs to be dropped. Clemency needs to be OGCD, MP perhaps raised, but the healing portion of this class needs to be embraced as a half WHM. Currently it is frowned upon to be using Clemency actively as it is a damage loss. Move it to OGCD or make it a 3x use charge into a big spell to make up damage loss/ neutral like a WHM. The MP cost of it will keep it in check but allow free use. The excess useless healing on sheltron and the Req line will be used to the open use of Clemency. This will not boost mitigation in itself but will make more use of the lore and ability.
Passage of arms needs to be changed to a damage reduction of type of cure 3 spell. Short range big heal. How many different types of mitigations are really needed at this point and we already have DV.
DV needs to be changed to self included. Everyone takes advantage of theirs why can a paladin not? Sure, they do not NEED it but adding that to the spell I can actually use it in a dungeon like everyone else to help me in wall to wall pulling.
Holy Sheltron needs to be changed to target and remove Intervention. Why do I need 2 spells?
Cover needs to remove the oath gauge and increase distance. Even then it wont be used but will be less niche. -
09-12-2022, 09:19 PMRithy255I don't think paladin is that bad at mitigating damage, at least arguably better then warrior at raw mitigation both have similar less mitigations in trade for self sustain, I feel the biggest problem with Paladin is that a lot of its self healing isn't up to the Paladin it's just on Req, which is pretty bad for raids, not saying the req healing you get isn't powerful but having no control of it means it gets wasted in a lot of situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulSamurai
Shelltron Should become a 20% damage reduction instead of a block could also target a party member, Oath shouldn't be based on auto attacks, a Timer around 45 seconds to fill to 100, while in combat would be much better for PLD to regen its mitigations during down time). I wouldn't mind seeing Paladin given another personal but generally I would rather A lot of req's sustain be moved onto a stronger regen effect on holy shelltron so that Paladins have more control when they regen.
Things Like Clemency should generally stay as it is, it being a GCD spell gives Paladin a choice in situations where healers are struggling or you got none, It gives Paladin the Opportunity to work as a backup healer, Instead you could argue that giving Paladin a separate Heal as a OGCD could help self sustain and party sustain, Gunbreaker gets a regen I don't see why it would really break the game if paladin had something similar outside its short cd and self healing (if plds holy spirit/blades phase didn't heal as much) I dont really see the problem with it, Things such as Shield Bash and Intervention, could be removed to get rid of some bloat on paladin to make up for a extra ability (IF holy shelltron was targetable)
We should keep in mind that implementing too much would overtune Paladin defensively, that could be balanced by having PLD have slightly less dps (Not by a lot, Paladin currently doesn't do enough by large amount). I want the Job to feel like the Holy Knight, with white magic abilities. Obviously we should be looking to balance any of these suggested changes I really don't want a situation where Paladin outclasses all the other tanks defensively. -
09-12-2022, 09:40 PMCurisu
PLD and WAR just need a DMG buff.
The low participation come from the extreme high difference in dmg compared to GNB and DRK.
Give PLD and WAR 100-200dps more and they become viable in week one again.
He is good defensive wise and does not need any "changes". -
09-12-2022, 11:55 PMOizenIssue I see with that is WAR with damage on the level of GNB or DRK is inherently OP due to how many defensives WAR has that are already the best in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Curisu
And if its even slightly less than GNB or DRK then people will still complain that their tank job isn't doing as much damage.
We could just homogenize everything, but then thats its own issue -
09-13-2022, 12:12 AMDeole
Agreed. People look at their personal damage not what it does over all. With increased self sustain you lose dps. But this should allow your healer to increase dps. Just a thought. If everyone demands all jobs have same performance in all areas we could simplify the game. Delete all jobs make 5 new ones. Tank, healer, melee dps, ranged dps, magical dps. People today are like but my BRD doesn’t have the damage out out of SAM not fair!!! Only one I feel should be complaining is MCH. Lack of raid support without the damage boost.
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09-13-2022, 12:19 AMCurisuJust checked my excel sheet numbers again and I will edit my post to reduce the numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oizen
Both are just approximately 100-200dps away from GNB and DRK.
But still, the difference is to unbalanced and both needed more dmg to be competitive for week 1. -
09-13-2022, 01:41 AMaodhan_ofinnegainSorry but this is complete and utter drivel. Self sustain as well as the defensive kit, should never ever ever ever dictate a tanks output, because if so Paladin should be destroying all the other tanks in DPS right now, but it's not it's at the bottom by a larger margin in aDPS, the metric that better represents tank damage. Also comparing a BRD to a SAM for damage has to be the most hyperbolic example possible, but BRD could do with a little bump, to be closer to DNC, but of course, I think the entire community can agree MCH definitely needs a buff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deole
Overall, I do genuinely believe all tanks should output the same amount of damage, and you bring the tank that you prefer to play in playstyle not get shoehorned into another one because the "extra defensive" for less damage ain't worth the damage sacrifice, and it's a joke to think otherwise. -
09-13-2022, 01:58 AMDeole
Well why doesn’t RDM hit as hard as BLM? Raid utility Yea? And from what I hear RDM is struggling at door boss. Does that mean bump their damage up? Seems every job has their day. And well it’s not PLDs. Not everyone can be an Astronaut. It’s a can of worms. If u increase war and pld damage does that mean DRK and gnb get more self sustain? Healers have gotten lazy due to war self sustain in dungeons. It’s ridiculous. I want DRK to have that kind of self sustain. It’s only fair!!! Jokes aside. Everything is fine. I don’t want anything for DRK. It’s fine how it is. Meh. If SE feels war and pld aren’t up to par they will adjust. If not. Well they are probably right. People tend to say “WHAT IS SE THINKING” Then later realize oh. Yea that works. Drop of endwalker everyone was complaining how DRK got cheated. Crap for new abilities. Linking CnS to abyssal drain. Etc etc. when every other tank got massive boost. And when people complained. SE said nope it’s fine. Now people are complaining their job doesn’t perform as well as DRK. Time will tell.
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09-13-2022, 02:18 AMaodhan_ofinnegainoh wow didn't think your last bad take could get any worse, but guess I was wrong about that one. Honestly I do think RDM and SMN should be closer to BLM, while BLM's higher skill ceiling should put it ahead of them. But, Tanks have about as equal a utility amongst themselves so your point is completely moot and irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deole
DRK and GNB don't need more self sustain, since they have more damage reduction. As it is, PLD's self sustain isn't even on demand, it just when it comes up in it's rotation, GNB has better on-demand self-sustain than PLD does, the only thing that PLD has is Holy Sheltron for on-demand self-sustain. PLD also has the least amount of personal mitigation cooldowns, out of all four tanks, so yes at present it very much is a “WHAT IS SE THINKING”. When the simple fact that ShB tank balanced existed not too long ago, there is no excuse for tanks to not be a hell of a lot closer than they are now in DPS output.
"Seems every job has their day. And well it’s not PLDs. Not everyone can be an Astronaut. It’s a can of worms." - this is a complete and utter contradiction to SE's own words of any job and any comp can clear the content, but that wasn't the case with every job on an equal footing now was it mate.
And as far as the DRK playerbase, they'll never be happy unless DRK goes back to HW, anything else is going to be a cryfest in the forums, to the point I just ignore it, otherwise it's going to be eyeroll inducing. -
09-13-2022, 03:22 AMDzianIf you genuinely think tanks should function like that then you absolutely have to apply that exact same logic to every single job. In which case...Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
BRD, SAM and absolutely every other DPS should output the exact same damage. and then..Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
Ridiculous.. every job including tanks should play differently and have strengths and weaknessesQuote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
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09-13-2022, 03:28 AMRyuDragnierWe could give WAR and PLD more damage, but we'd have to be nerfing something in exchange. For WAR, that isn't that hard due to their plentiful amount of self-sustain, as they could lose a little of it (like dropping Bloodwhetting from 400 cure potency to 300 cure potency) to make up for the damage gain. PLD...I'm not sure what they COULD nerf for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oizen
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09-13-2022, 03:42 AMRithy255It's not like Warrior needs to be on the same level can still be the lowest out of all the tanks but also be buffed, Beyond that Warrior isn't really broken in raids Sure it's Strong but bringing a warrior isn't going to really effect all that much to the point where warrior should be doing significantly less then any other tankQuote:
Originally Posted by RyuDragnier
Paladin isn't even really better then gunbreaker defensively so why would Paladin need to be nerfed...? Seriously paladin is struggling with a Long Invul clunky "utility" one less personal cd, if anything if Paladin was brought up people would still be choosing Gunbreaker or Dark knight for a "meta pick" Paladin is in a bad spot at both sides right now. (Mind you Paladin is still good defensively but it's not as broken as people tend to make out).
I'm not against keeping tanks at lower damage for defensive or utility but right now it's too much of a difference, We also don't need to remove defensives or nerf them. -
09-13-2022, 04:03 AMDeole
Feels to me that GNB defensive is worse than DRK. Granted I main DRK.
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09-13-2022, 04:05 AMaodhan_ofinnegainHi excuse me, do not put words in my mouth k tnx. I know what I said and yes I mean just tanks. tanks are the only role that do not have any sort of damage boosting raid buffs. Healers and DPS should be some variance due to some bringing damage modifying buffs. So please put some thought into the next time you decide to respond.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzian
Also do not quote someone where you have edited what that person said as that is no longer verbatim what that person said. -
12-24-2022, 01:54 PMEorzean_username
Ah, hahahahahaha!
Behold, but a sliver of my god's power!
https://i.imgur.com/VELoXPl.jpeg
sharpens Tonberry knives
Who's next?! -
12-24-2022, 02:48 PMVentVanitas
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12-24-2022, 04:33 PMVictorSpoilsGood call on Goring Blade, Shelltron, and Bulwark. Guess we'll see how the rest turns out. IDK if Circle of Scorn will get two charges though, unless they remove the DoT from that too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eorzean_username
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12-24-2022, 07:38 PMVidera
So they're just turning Paladin into Warrior :sadge:
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12-24-2022, 08:28 PMFatalFatalis
So happy for Warrior mains, they can choose between three different subclasses now
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12-24-2022, 09:15 PMRithy255They can choose:Quote:
Originally Posted by FatalFatalis
Warrior, Edgy warrior or Holy Warrior.
Gun warrior coming in 7.0! -
12-25-2022, 12:58 AMAbsurdityI for one look forward to when they rework No Mercy into "Grants 3 stacks of No Mercy, allowing the use of Gnashing Fang without Cartridge cost, increasing the damage by 20% and guaranteeing they are critical and direct hits. 1 stack of No Mercy is consumed when executing Gnashing Fang, Savage Claw and Wicked Talon."Quote:
Originally Posted by Rithy255
Because anything that isn't pressing Inner Release and then mindlessly spamming 1 button is too complicated for players...apparently. -
12-25-2022, 05:53 AMForsakenRoeBloodfest already gives 3 stacks of 'press Burst Strike', admittedly the carts can be used on other stuff but lets be real, inside the buff window it's gonna be spend on 3 Burst StrikesQuote:
Originally Posted by Absurdity