Bot(Novice) Network

Hello,
for sure we are know there is a problem with bots in FF XIV.
There is another problem with bots in Novice Network. There are tons of them spaming 0, RMT and so on.
Currently on Sagittarius is around 130/140 bots in NN and 15-20 new returning players.

They are invited by someone to NN and Mentors can't do a thing about it.
Why can't we change how NN is working?
It should show (at least in option) who invited player/bot we are checking.
There should be a permament ban for someone from NN that will require 5-10 mentors to confirm so we don't need to deal with the bots every 30min.

Really Square Enix should be more strict.

Link for our Bot Network on Sagittarius
https://imgur.com/a/Lhey4va
https://imgur.com/a/Lhey4va

...okay this is actually a problem. I have nothing to add that could help, but I hope this does get fixed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Encio

There should be a permament ban for someone from NN that will require 5-10 mentors to confirm so we don't need to deal with the bots every 30min.

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Knowing that even in the NN there can be clashes between mentors, i do disagree here. As it could also cause legit mentors to get kicked just because a group of 10 members doesnt like a specific person.

For banning bots, it sadly means that it still has to go through other methods (where validation by SE has to take place). But at least with this info, this should also become a lot more reliable.

We wouldn't kick Mentors from NN just Sprouts (bot) Instead of 30min. Ban for longer period of time, after 10 mentors agree.

Or at least give us mentors a way to report them bots similarly to RMT bots.

Heyho,

can confirm this is happening on Alpha as well. And weirdly on Twintania with bots from Raiden...? Are they bored on their new world? The chat gets a bit quieter once the bots reach Amdapor and don't press "0" to interact with NPCs anymore. I reported them (in total around 120) via the official support form for this, as recommended by the GMs bc. the whole RMT bot thing seems to be handled elsewhere: https://support.eu.square-enix.com/c...383&la=2&fty=2 (Category "Report a case to the Special Task Force). So far this seemed to work, with the next bot ban they were gone. But as long as someone deliberately keeps inviting new bots big style, this is not a lasting solution. The last ban wave was today and I checked in the morning, all the bots were gone (minus one or two outliers maybe who looked genuine.) Now it's evening and I just had to send a new report for 20 or so newcomers. And should SE not remove them earlier, it means the Novice Networks in question have to deal with the bot spam (and bots blocking sprout places on servers that are much more populated than Alpha) for a whole week. This is neither what mentorship nor the Novice Network should be about. We have answered "why do they spam 0?" moreoften than any other newbie question in the last week, at least it feels like this. This really takes the fun away of mentoring. (Let's not forget, mentors are just normal players, we aren't getting paid for this, quite contrary we are paying for dealing with this with our subs for playtime.)

I am not sure if a change in the kick system would help with the problem, though making the time-out longer than 30 minutes after being kicked x times or by x different mentors would help in many occasions. (If the "x" is high enough to prevent abuse based on personal pettiness.) Personally I think it would be much more helpful to see who invited the bots in the first place, so you know what name to write on a report to the GMs or the Special Task Force or both. A list with the invites from the last 3 days or so with inviting person and the one who was invited would also help by seeing if someone is doing this on mass or if someone accidentally invited a bot who looked legit. (They seem to change their name pattern to actual game suggestions, which makes it indeed harder to spot them.) This way the people who keep disrupting the Novice Networks would be able to be hold accountable without throwing someone innocent under the bus who just made one mistake.

For now I can just recommend: Keep reporting them via the support website. (You can avoid manually typing down all 100+ names with a "picture to text" website/program, though I haven't found one yet that isn't buggy one way or another.) Even if it doesn't address the cause, namely a mentor with a pulse (or without?) inviting them manually into the Novice Networks, it still helps making SE aware about what scope we're talking here. And that those are not a few isolated small incidents by someone who was bored or salty at a specific NN.

Echoing the problem on alpha.

Its been a problem since the server launched, but it just gets worse and worse.

Today, I've been online for 4 hours, and every unique bot that posted in NN, I added to my blacklist.
145 unique bots... in 4 hours. And these are being added daily!

If you report to support, they redirect you to either their "task force" or to the forums. Eventually the bots are banned in a RMT banwave, but that can take weeks. And by that point, hundreds of new fresh bots are infesting NN. And the cycle continues.

If they're not going to help remove the bots, either find out who is inviting them and get rid of them, or outsource locating the culprit to the mentors by letting us see who invited a player to NN. All it takes is one malicous person on one datacenter to jump between servers and invite to their heart's content, and there is nothing we can do to stop them...

Edit: In the couple of minutes i spent typing this, 10 new bots appeared in chat...

This flood also just makes me hesitent of inviting new actual sprouts. Especially on new servers this is important with many new players around and, well, this is what this channel is for. But what kind of a first impression is this if they enter this new thing and suddenly their general tab looks like this? (Or a 4th tab, should they not just immediately leave and make a new chat tab instead.)

https://imgur.com/a/YyrKM6W
(This is representative for the whole evening.)

It's a honest problem and it needs to be fixed. My server is getting infested by these bots coming in from another world. Either Raiden or Alpha.

Just checked how it's going right now in the Alpha NN and thought I'd share, so you can see for yourself that nobody here is exaggerating. (grey box = actual players)

https://imgur.com/a/8D8DclT

This list is far from complete, but I didn't want to include those pages where more actual players are on. Still quite an impression, considering the 299 total sprout number for this channel. We almost reached the player cap last evening. Before this started, we had maybe 100-150 sprouts in there during the busy hours.

They don't spam a lot anymore because their script reached their final loop or something, which apparently works without typing anything. But knowing we have to wait a week until someone actually kicks them out while they're taking up space and then it's likely just a matter of hours until whatever arsehole invites new ones... Let's say, that is not a situation I am looking forward to. Keep in mind, that those are only the bots that are online right now, and only those who are on Alpha, not the ones from Raiden and not the Alpha-Bots on other worlds. Whoever has invited them really must hate the whole concept of Novice Network, sprouts, mentors, or all of them at once. This is just ruining the fun for others for selfish reasons. And dear inviter, should you actually read this and have the feeling you are doing something good here by drawing attention to these bots or something, a speculation I read a while ago, you are not. Please stop. SE *is* aware of bots and even publishes their results every week on the lodestone. You are not helping. If you feel there isn't done enough, report them yourself without bothering other players who can't do anything real against them.

How long has this been a problem?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Breakbeat

How long has this been a problem?

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For this specific case on Alpha: I joined right after World Transfer opened and it either was already a problem or started to become one soon after. For a while it seemed over but then it started again, with more bots each time as it seems. Reported around 150 or so by now, the first wave I noticed it was 20.

However, bots in the NN seem to have been a problem for longer. In ye olde days it was another kind of bot though, they got trouble with advertisement bots who joined, shoutet their spam and left again. So I don't know if that's comparable. The 0 spamming ones seem to be fairly new, in a very loose definition of "new". Here is a collection of threads I could find regarding the general problem of bots in NN:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...with-spam-bots
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...out-of-control
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ising-and-real.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...novice-network
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ork-Bot-Issues

Older threads about ads:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Novice-Network
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Novice-Network
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Novice-Network

There are a few others, but you get the big picture. A little disheartening to see how long this has been a thing...

OK, so then clearly (obviously) SE knows about this? They're not imbeciles.

I'm moving towards a point, here. Can we agree that SE knows about the issue?

I mean, you can take the side of "SE is ignorant of the issue," and then I will bow out and rest my case, because that's patently ridiculous.

But, anyway, so they know about it, right?

"SE" is not one single entity with a big hive mind... The Special Task Force and the GMs know about this because they got reports. No clue how careful the forum is studied for stuff like this. But I don't see a point in speculating how many other people in the complex structure that is a game development company might know, too. Nor how hard or easy it is to stop these floods, preferably permanently.

"Hi new players, welcome to the Novice network, please feel free to ask questions"

What new sprouts get to see:

[20:30]Novice - Fs Tayabas has been kicked from the channel by Mia Blaze-cari.
Reason: bot
[20:30][NOVICE]Walin Yaralin: 0
[20:31][NOVICE]Rotoni MeshatoniRaiden: 0
[20:31][NOVICE]Bcqlwccmykn Meshalbi: 000
[20:31]Novice - Ep Molpas has been kicked from the channel by Komori YuiLich.
Reason: Bot
[20:32][NOVICE]Yargutdshtfvr Anzak: 0
[20:32][NOVICE]Rojddceqvcn Madalbi: 000
[20:32][NOVICE]Sa Gamilin: 0
[20:32][NOVICE]Nfytmylqaymj Bulilto: 0
[20:33][NOVICE]Iwrwcmbwxbe Gamizak: 0
[20:33][NOVICE]Iwrwcmbwxbe Gamizak: 0
[20:33][NOVICE]Iwrwcmbwxbe Gamizak: 0
[20:33][NOVICE]Py Madango: 0
[20:33]Novice - Fujksmxyxqen Pototoni has been kicked from the channel by Komori YuiLich.
Reason: Bot
[20:33][NOVICE]Hppqgomeslah Lohzai: 0
[20:33][NOVICE]Yazyl Dalazyl: 0
[20:33][NOVICE]Psiweoqpmbndg Kelulno: 0
[20:33][NOVICE]Adtbnawmppo Tunlyo: 0
[20:33][NOVICE]Rtxiubldpvbi Dalanan: 0
[20:33][NOVICE]Cfmhqlngdth Natan: 0
[20:34][NOVICE]Hw Molipo: 0
[20:34]Novice - Zaipo Kesuipo has been kicked from the channel by Mia Blaze-cari.
Reason: bot
[20:34][NOVICE]Hoipo Meshaipo: 0
[20:34][NOVICE]Xyoyofrvyqt Meshatan: 0
[20:35][NOVICE]Yalto Dulto: 000
[20:35][NOVICE]Punco Zonco: 0
[20:35][NOVICE]Yunco Madanco: 0
[20:35][NOVICE]Jlviatugdkbt Atoral: 0
[20:35]Novice - Rr Anlugi has been kicked from the channel by Mia Blaze-cari.
Reason: bot
[20:36][NOVICE]Dk Potonan: 0
[20:36][NOVICE]Nolyo Zulyo: 000
[20:36][NOVICE]Duauovqfja Hamylto: 0
[20:36][NOVICE]Duauovqfja Hamylto: 0
[20:36][NOVICE]Duauovqfja Hamylto: 0
[20:36][NOVICE]Duauovqfja Hamylto: 0
[20:36][NOVICE]Duauovqfja Hamylto: 0
[20:36][NOVICE]Duauovqfja Hamylto: 0
[20:36][NOVICE]Biiwbnxsdhag Zuaka: 000
[20:36][NOVICE]Atvohmatvgu Vuwazi: 000
[20:36][NOVICE]Wjajgkhkyh Zalito: 0
[20:36][NOVICE]Xblyytsuvkf Honngi: 0
[20:36]Novice - Fuzyn Guzyn has been kicked from the channel by Mia Blaze-cari.
Reason: bot
[20:36][NOVICE]Xs Rawazi: 0
[20:36][NOVICE]Xs Rawazi: 0
[20:36][NOVICE]Kecho Romcho: 0
[20:37][NOVICE]Xs Rawazi: 0
[20:37][NOVICE]Kecho Romcho: 0
[20:37][NOVICE]Xs Rawazi: 0
[20:37][NOVICE]Kecho Romcho: 0
[20:37][NOVICE]Xs Rawazi: 0
[20:37][NOVICE]Kecho Romcho: 0
[20:37][NOVICE]Kecho Romcho: 0
[20:37][NOVICE]Hobmwnhyiyx Romlgo: 0
[20:37][NOVICE]Abyzon Atozon: 0
[20:37][NOVICE]Djjfapraqpn Buoylugi: 000
[20:37][NOVICE]Momaga Zamaga: 0
[20:37][NOVICE]Zopas Lohpas: 0
[20:38]Novice - Wo Vumono has been kicked from the channel by Komori YuiLich.
Reason: Bot
[20:38][NOVICE]Zaipo Kesuipo: 0
[20:39][NOVICE]Rolto Koglto: 000
[20:39][NOVICE]Om Menacho: 0
[20:39]Novice - Lasmknthdnw Menalado has been kicked from the channel by Mia Blaze-cari.
Reason: bot
[20:39][NOVICE]Shotopa Mabatopa: 0
[20:39][NOVICE]Zozai Thazai: 0

I can't count how often i've jokingly said in the NN:
We need a visual captcha for Amdapor, like in one of the Stormblood Raids (can't remember the name), where you have to solve maths. Just something easy that the bots can't solve, except if the people using the bots just stir deep in the code to solve it. But idk if that's possible in a game. Such a captcha should make it at least harder.

I even thought about "laying down" my Mentor crown, as i'm gatherer Mentor only and i'm heavily annoyed by the bots in the NN. Today evening they're literally running us over. 30+ Bots in just a few minutes. Sheesh. I moved from Shiva to Alpha, because i wanted a less croweded server. What i got are stupid market prices and tons of bots. Do i regret it? Partially. Won't be better on Raiden.

https://i.imgur.com/NJx6PJw.png

Apparently bots now seem to be able to bypass the 30 minutes...I kicked one at least 4 times in less than 30 minutes.

I wonder how much it would help for the fight against the bots if they would just remove that one treasure chest in Amdapor Keep that you can get to before the first boss fight. I mean, the bots still get a lot of gil from following the ARR MSQ, but this goes very fast (especially on Alpha and Raiden with the Road to 80 buff) and all they do afterwards is farming this one chest over and over for days.

Yha, the botscript folk have figured out how to get them to worldhop, sending the add in the instant before world transfer, so there's no time to kick them.
So now any server that lets any in, show up everywhere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Yha, the botscript folk have figured out how to get them to worldhop, sending the add in the instant before world transfer, so there's no time to kick them.
So now any server that lets any in, show up everywhere.

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Okay, I would not have guessed that this is how they're doing it. Thanks for solving this riddle for us. :)

So, today is the day where the bot ban should've cleaned up everything. I must have reported 150 or so bots over the week for Alpha, together with plenty others. Yesterday evening it looked like a few were missing but it seems they were just offline. It's thursday morning and around half of the 264 sprouts in the chat are bots rotating in Amdapor Keep or on their way to doing this. And we still have plenty of bots spamming 0, where some seem to be able to dodge kicks now. And yet the bot report says it's around 2000 more bots that were kicked than usual. This gives me an awkward feeling that this is not just trolling or whatever but a preparation for something, like spamming advertisment without getting kicked. :/

I really wish we would get at least some sort of acknowledgement that not only the support / STF is aware of it but also people higher up in the food chain. (Considering in what short time this problem grew into this massive mess, I could imagine they feel as overwhelmed as we do by now if they can't keep up with deleting anymore.) I don't know, at least give us a lodestone message apart from the weekly standard "x accounts were kicked, pls keep reporting". Tell us you are aware of not just "there are bots" but "the novice networks are flooded".

Soo, does anyone knows how to reach out to the FFxiv content creator?
Like, on this forum we already complained for so long about bots in Eureka and more problems like this and nothing has been done.

The only option I see that something changes would be when it gets called out by multiple big content creator.
It would be a easy made video for someone like Preach or Zepla that will get a lot of clicks, because this kind always gets clicks and attention.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Curisu

Soo, does anyone knows how to reach out to the FFxiv content creator?
Like, on this forum we already complained for so long about bots in Eureka and more problems like this and nothing has been done.

The only option I see that something changes would be when it gets called out by multiple big content creator.
It would be a easy made video for someone like Preach or Zepla that will get a lot of clicks, because this kind always gets clicks and attention.

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My best guess would tagging them on Twitter or joining their discords or so, should they have one. I could imagine stuff like we experience usually goes past them because they don't hang out in NN all day. (Though the bots in Eureka should be well known afaik, but if you're not in NN, you don't know what happens in NN.) Some sort of media attention would surely be nice... Though stuff like this can easily turn into a flamewar, not sure if this helps anyone. But I admit I feel like being out of options as well, aside from talking about it on the next big Twitch stream, but I'm not sure if this is truly getting seen by the right people there.

It's groundhog day again. Yet another bot ban wave kicked (almost) all bots out and gave us a moment to breathe until the new wave came in just a few hours later. For some reason the bots we get are not entirely new though in the last two weeks, they are already somewhere around level 50 and hanging around in Coerthas, so fairly far in the ARR MSQ. So at least they aren't spamming "0" the whole week because they reach Amdapor before that. But nevertheless it is exhausting. Kicking bots all evening and reporting 200 bots per week via the support website is certainly not what I planned on spending my sub money on. (And this happens on all four new worlds in EU, plus a few that are travelling from their original new world to another established world.) But if we don't do that, it seems nobody does, or cares. Of course now with the afk kick gone it is unclear if that person in question invited those bots three weeks ago when the bots lay dormant until they were needed, but then it would be a bunch of level 3 bots. So whoever invited them still seems to be able to play the game and keep doing their thing. There was one suspicion and a report was send, but if there were consequences, they weren't enough, because it keeps happening.

I wonder who exactly in the team is aware of the issue, aside from GMs and STF. So far it seems to be focused on the new EU servers and I doubt the devs from the Japanese team are hanging around there. Maybe it would help to send a message on Twitch during the Live Letter, if anyone of you can speak decent Japanese and is awake at this time? (It's 6:30 am here when the Live Letter begins and my Japanese begins and ends with ohayou. xD) Of course it shouldn't end up in spam and be polite, but I honestly feel like we're out of options of what we can do.