ARR Trusts are boring

I played with ARR Trusts a bit through the MSQ on an alt and it was the most soulless Experience I have had playing Final Fantasy and I played FFXIII

My Solution: Have other NPCs join you, maybe some from Side Quests or have a Pool of NPCs like Squadrons+ let those NPCs later also be able to join your Squadron.

I can see How the Devs want to appeal to Solo/Single Player, though (Why would you play a MMO in the first place?) Single Player RPGs should have good written NPC Party Members, while true that isn't a Possibility in FFXIV.. at least have like 30 Character Pool of designed Trust NPCs. Like imagine you did The Rising 2022 Event Quest and now you unlocked Nhagi'a Jakkya alongside those other NPCs from the Naoki Yoshida Vision as Trusts, that would be awesome!

So in general I want more variety from the ARR Trust System and maybe the ability to run those Dungeons through the MSQ with your Squadrons.

They do have a progression because they become members of a grand company and eventually they become scions.

really though? I mean they're just the same 3 NPC all the time ._.

You are also the same adventurer all the time.

Yes, if you look at their "names" and outfits, they start as adventurers like you and then slowly work their way up, join a grand company and become scions.

Since the new update they should be chattier. I haven't played those dungeons again for myself, but before the patch they already made small generic comments (and were adorable doing that, like the Thaumaturge unsurely announcing a Thunder cast).

You mean to tell me that a game that basically plays itself isn't fun?

I do hate to moan but time and time again. The vase of the story is that this game is catered (and rightfully so) to all audiences.

I think the programmers are trying to slowly compliment this stuff and I bet it's not easy. Let's give them some time. I bet it's a massive undertaking to code etc.

As we've seen, alot of content is getting reworked for 7.0 - including viable tank busters etc.

People moaned in ARR about coils been too hard and locking story behind it. People also moan about none optimal rotatations in 4 man and 8 man PUGs on the forums. It was changed.

I'm afraid the single play is what you get which is both accessible to individuals unable to do any rotations etc and they feel they are unable to progress their story due to criticism from others. (I have multiple stories from dungeons with a friend who felt they couldnt progress without a set of IRL friends including me due to this!) They had a disability.

Sorry but this is brought on by yourselves and I hope to god they continue with this - in a game thats locked behind dungeons and trials for the story.

See the "tales of the duty finder" thread and how toxic some of the posts are.

well really? but what's wrong with more variety though? for me those ARR Trusts do not really change at all^^;

which is why I want those NPCs from The Rising 2022 Event+ more Squadron Integration

I think it's coding it in. I'm hoping for alot in 7.0 it's an old game with alot of scrambled code from what I've seen and read.

I do however believe different characters join at different points too - theres more code to mess around with.

I'm not against it, but it's very new atm and my opinion is just give it time. :)

What has to be remembered though is story wise in ARR when you're sent through trials and dungeons, you're always stated to "lead a group of adventurers" into them (in fact the storyline for Castrum Meridanium and the Praetorium you were literally told that, that you're commanding an "elite adventurer unit" - meaning other players). So having a party of generic adventurer NPCs for Duty Support is in keeping with this.

The reason why this changed in ShB and into EW with Trusts/Duty Support was because you were now in a new world technically on your own, so the "enter with a party of adventurers" thing no longer held weight, and instead required a party of named story characters who specifically connected to the dungeon or trial which are already in that world (this is also why we got the Mcguffin of the Azem Crystal and it's "signature spell", and before that the Exarch's 'summon allies' spell which is functionally similar - it nicely fixes that little plot hole as to "how the hell can you get your adventurer friends across dimensions to the other end of the universe?").

As well, by that stage you've gone past a "random Grand Company soldier entreating adventurers to flush out vagrants/cultists from some ruin" as the reason for entering a dungeon, there is more crucial story reasons for dealing with most of the recent dungeons in the game, so that has even a greater need to have actual story characters involved (in fact, the story/lore almost mandates using NPCs in some situations - for instance lore wise why would you enter the likes of Ktisis Hyperboriea with a player party when the story so obviously assumes you're entering with a certain three Ancient Duty Support NPCs? Or face 'Mama' in her experimental trial battle with anyone other than the full group of Scions?).

Alas the ARR dungeons generally are more nodescript as far as NPCs connected to them go, so no wonder the Duty Support npcs added to them are generic adventurer NPCs, not too disimilar to the GC Squadron.

I have my gripes with ARR Duty Support, one of which is a desire to swap the ineffectual THM for the LNC, but I will say it made for a significantly smoother leveling experience for a DPS (less so as a tank, miserable as a healer). I'm just disappointed that they didn't touch the 2.x patch trials. That alt will have to remain sidelined until they do.

Now if only we had a squad of people we can choose from. Perhaps this Squad could come to the WoL for various reasons. Oh, and when this Squadron or "Squad" of NPCs join you the WoL would have to teach them the basics of adventuring by doing dungeons with them! Perhaps when this Squadron trusts the WoL a bit you can actually glamour them! ...Nah, that wouldn't work. :^)

One person's boring is another person's Seinfeld.

I am shocked we haven't seen any trusts in the cash shop yet. They already have lightning, shantoto, and the guy from 15 in the game.

I always thought it would be neat instead of generic "storm mage" they'd create 3 or 4 npcs with real names and their own glamour. It's be fun running dungeons with a group of actual named npcs instead of just blank templates. They could give them different glamours each expansion/patch, or change it up as they leveled with you. That'd be cool

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moonlite

I am shocked we haven't seen any trusts in the cash shop yet. They already have lightning, shantoto, and the guy from 15 in the game.

---

Dont make this kind of suggestion..... they will start adding npc to hangout in island sanctuary in mog station as well if they start doing that

It was a great chance to breathe some life into the Squadron system but they didn't do it. Disappointing but not surprising.

Those lads are immune to tampering tho. I hope they get themselves a spin-off anime or something.

boring and better behaved than actual players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Now if only we had a squad of people we can choose from. Perhaps this Squad could come to the WoL for various reasons. Oh, and when this Squadron or "Squad" of NPCs join you the WoL would have to teach them the basics of adventuring by doing dungeons with them! Perhaps when this Squadron trusts the WoL a bit you can actually glamour them! ...Nah, that wouldn't work. :^)

---

You know, you're speaking alot of sense here my man.
I wish we had something like this in the game, perhaps we could take something forgotten and repurpose it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GeminiReed

I have my gripes with ARR Duty Support, one of which is a desire to swap the ineffectual THM for the LNC

---

When is the lancer ever used? I started a thaumaturge alt recently and was doing dungeons with the trusts, and I still get paired with the NPC thaumaturge. Why does the lancer exist if not to allow for the tank/healer/melee/mage arrangement in all parties?


(Edit: I realised, of course she'd be used when you're playing a non-DPS role and need two DPS trusts. Still annoying that they don't/can't avoid sending the thaumaturge alongside another mage.)

Said it before but it bears repeating:

Total lost opportunity NOT to utilize the b-squad Scions like Hoary Boulder and company. There are a few/regularly used side characters that we still bump into that would have been perfect for this.

Even Edda’s party would have been great to make it even more of a rival team for the first few dungeons with a plot point of how they bungled Tam-Tara as you roll up..not just a “oh these NPCs are there to talk to if you want…I guess”.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xavier_Firbold

You mean to tell me that a game that basically plays itself isn't fun?

---

Not them but I've been having more and actual fun playing with trusts then live humans in groups. Far, far less stress on me and I can actually pay attention to details in the dungeon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kaynide

Even Edda’s party would have been great to make it even more of a rival team for the first few dungeons with a plot point of how they bungled Tam-Tara as you roll up..not just a “oh these NPCs are there to talk to if you want…I guess”.

---

It wouldn't work to have Edda's team for all three early dungeons since they "wipe and disband for real" only halfway through the second, but we could definitely have had a mix of the three teams we meet during that early phase.

Sastasha could have been with Edda's team, since they're right there.

Tam-Tara with the team who later die in Copperbell: E'manafa, Dolorous Bear and Kikina. These guys only get one cutscene with us very early on, die off-screen (only reported to us by another group), and turn up much later in the Palace of the Dead, so it would be good to feature them at least once.

By the time we reach Copperbell the only other team alive and intact is Alianne and Isildaure, who can't fill a party on their own, but perhaps we could get Liavinne and/or Paiyo Reiyo from Edda's team.

Yeah, they're quite boring, I don't think the trusts were really considered from a story viewpoint.
At the very least they could've given them a name, even Squadrons have more personality, the ugly ARR gear doesn't help either..
It would've been nice to see preexisting characters like Edda and the others brought up above rolled into this mechanic, as I think it would've given a bit of consistency with how the way it works in Heavensward, not to mention just more interesting.

Imo it would've been interesting if instead they were the "origin story" of the B team Scions (the Boulder bros, Coultenet, Aenor, Clemence, etc). I mean, those guys are supposed to be "our static" while leveling so it just...makes sense if they were actual characters? Idk, call me nitpicky, but it just mildly annoys me even the Scions you knew for 5 mins before ...you know.... had names and dialogues instead of being simply Generic Scion #27

Personally, I wish they had a few of the B-team Scions to fill in more roles instead of "Random NPC #2". I was hoping for a couple of recognizable names. They don't even need voice acting or anything, I would have just liked their models to be there.

But let's be honest. The Trust system is for DPS players that don't want to wait for queue times and for people too socially insecure to interact with other humans for more than 5 minutes. It's not supposed to be all that engaging, it's supposed to be a basic crutch to speed people through content without having to wait on queue times. Especially since the NPCs are typically better at doing mechanics than most of the sprouts progressing through early content for the first time ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allegor

Imo it would've been interesting if instead they were the "origin story" of the B team Scions (the Boulder bros, Coultenet, Aenor, Clemence, etc). I mean, those guys are supposed to be "our static" while leveling so it just...makes sense if they were actual characters? Idk, call me nitpicky, but it just mildly annoys me even the Scions you knew for 5 mins before ...you know.... had names and dialogues instead of being simply Generic Scion #27

---

I definitely would have liked the trusts to have names, but I don't think the B-team Scions would work so well because they're introduced to us for the first time later on, so it doesn't really make sense to meet them earlier.

Still, there are plenty of minor adventurers around Revenant's Toll in late ARR that could have had some early cameos.

not to sound dramatic but trusts killed the msq dungoens, they needlessly nerfed alot of the instances and ever since SHB dungeon design went abit south from how much physical players can handle, toward how much their NPC can handle. I am not looking forward to the nerfs comming to; Great gubal library, Aether facility, Xephetal, Sohm Kai, Balsar's Wall, Doma castle, The Burn and so on

How many mechs are they gonna remove and then tak on another underwhelming stack marker that tickles you double digit damage

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jirah

How many mechs are they gonna remove and then tak on another underwhelming stack marker that tickles you double digit damage

---

The new ARR mechs were a nice touch and it was a great idea to show new players what tank/stack markers are (once they learn from being hit/mistakes) but like you said the damage is pathetic. It didnt take us tank vets long to realise that you can almost always ignore the mechs , and keep your uptime going due to the damage being so weak . In early ARR in Copperbell the two ogre bosses mechs can be stood in and the tank barley takes any damage . It keeps your uptime going but its going to possibly teach new players that dodging mechs isnt needed, where that definitely changes in later expacks .

The new revamped castrum for example , the mechanical boss (2nd) its run from the aoe ( the one that lands in a spot and pulses) can be utterly ignored , and ive just stood there and tanked it with ease and you can see eventually dps catch on that its no big deal and gives a healer something to do as they will take slightly more damage than the tank does , as the rest of the encounter barley needed healing if you do mechs and sacrifice dps due to being out of range ( melee) . The only TB that "hurts" is Nero's in the prea revamp and aoes to dodge is Livia's in castrum if you get clocked by 2 or more in successions as a non tank and maybe the X slashes that Gaius's clones do if you get hit by one as a magic user with lower defences.

Ive had to tell myself not to do it because I dont want to be part of the player base that teaches bad etiquette and do the mechs even though they hit like a soggy tissue.

As someone who loves playing with NPCs and enjoying lore etc I feel the same.
It would have been nice if you could bring random NPCs from the guilds, some pugilist senior or gladiator etc and possibly talk to them in their respective locations.

B Scions are nice too, regardless more personality is appreciated.

What I think is sad is that they pretty much killed Squadrons with the Duty Support... we should at least be able to choose between Duty Support -OR- Squadron members if we have them unlocked and available. But as for it being boring, most people wanted Duty Support because they are solo players and want to just get through that 'forced group' part of the MSQ without having to group with other players.

It's always interesting though, whenever solo play comes up in an MMO forum and someone says, "Why play an MMO if you aren't interested in group content"? Well... give me a single player game that I can play for YEARS that is constantly updated, new content added, changes made, etc... and in the sword/sorcery/fantasy genre... I'll go play it. And that's the point, solo players play FFXIV and ESO because they want to play the same game for YEARS; not all gamers are game-hoppers who want to play a game for 30 hours and hop to the next.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GeminiReed

I have my gripes with ARR Duty Support, one of which is a desire to swap the ineffectual THM for the LNC, but I will say it made for a significantly smoother leveling experience for a DPS (less so as a tank, miserable as a healer). I'm just disappointed that they didn't touch the 2.x patch trials. That alt will have to remain sidelined until they do.

---

While I haven't played around with tank or healer to see the LNC, I'd expect both Duty Support DPS to be equally ineffectual. As long as their damage scales around your own, and as long as you're actually putting some effort into your rotation, they all just end up doing a bunch of 1's.

And if we are to take their "planned for future patches/expansions" indicators in the Duty Support menu, it'd seem as if they currently have no plans to hit the 8-man content at all. The only ones that got the support were redesigned for 4, which is maybe not entirely desirable for every single MSQ trial...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hasrat

While I haven't played around with tank or healer to see the LNC, I'd expect both Duty Support DPS to be equally ineffectual. As long as their damage scales around your own, and as long as you're actually putting some effort into your rotation, they all just end up doing a bunch of 1's.

---

I don't have any solid data on how either of them did but it certainly felt like the LNC did a much better job than the THM. Probably because at those levels LNC really only has a single target rotation and since that's all the Trust does (*eyerolls*) it outshines the THM by a noticeable margin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hasrat

And if we are to take their "planned for future patches/expansions" indicators in the Duty Support menu, it'd seem as if they currently have no plans to hit the 8-man content at all. The only ones that got the support were redesigned for 4, which is maybe not entirely desirable for every single MSQ trial...

---

Yoshi-P told us the motivation behind Duty Support and that's to capture the not insignificant FF solo-only market. Then there's the level 89 EW trial which can done with a Trust. In light of both "No plans" seems to be a bit of a stretch or perhaps projection. I'd accept "ran out of time" because there's a lot of trials in 7th Astral or even "We have no clue what to do with CT". Regardless, they'll have a wealth of metrics on the type of player (Trust exclusive vs. willing to party), if they got past the trials, and if so, how they did it (solo-unsync, party-unsync, sync'd PF, sync'd DF).

If I was a solo-only player I'd feel pretty burned right now by the decision to skip the trial conversions. At best I'd wait until all the mandatory instances were converted. At worst I'd shake the dust off my feet and add Yoshi-P to the "avoid this dev's work" list. (And before anybody gets their knickers in a twist, that's an extreme, most people would fall somewhere between the two)

Helluuuuuuu

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izar_Chillen

The new ARR mechs were a nice touch and it was a great idea to show new players what tank/stack markers are (once they learn from being hit/mistakes) but like you said the damage is pathetic. It didnt take us tank vets long to realise that you can almost always ignore the mechs , and keep your uptime going due to the damage being so weak . In early ARR in Copperbell the two ogre bosses mechs can be stood in and the tank barley takes any damage . It keeps your uptime going but its going to possibly teach new players that dodging mechs isnt needed, where that definitely changes in later expacks .

The new revamped castrum for example , the mechanical boss (2nd) its run from the aoe ( the one that lands in a spot and pulses) can be utterly ignored , and ive just stood there and tanked it with ease and you can see eventually dps catch on that its no big deal and gives a healer something to do as they will take slightly more damage than the tank does , as the rest of the encounter barley needed healing if you do mechs and sacrifice dps due to being out of range ( melee) . The only TB that "hurts" is Nero's in the prea revamp and aoes to dodge is Livia's in castrum if you get clocked by 2 or more in successions as a non tank and maybe the X slashes that Gaius's clones do if you get hit by one as a magic user with lower defences.

Ive had to tell myself not to do it because I dont want to be part of the player base that teaches bad etiquette and do the mechs even though they hit like a soggy tissue.

---

Bad etiquette? What are they primed for? Having the same underwhelming damage outputs in 80s and 90s expert? I’d say it goes beyond bad etiquette and goes into a complete misunderstanding of damage output and job requirements. As a healer I say keep me in business! Don’t do stack markers, go into a AOE for fun

Di they run dungeons better thsn Squadrons?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jirah

not to sound dramatic but trusts killed the msq dungoens, they needlessly nerfed alot of the instances and ever since SHB dungeon design went abit south from how much physical players can handle, toward how much their NPC can handle. I am not looking forward to the nerfs comming to; Great gubal library, Aether facility, Xephetal, Sohm Kai, Balsar's Wall, Doma castle, The Burn and so on

How many mechs are they gonna remove and then tak on another underwhelming stack marker that tickles you double digit damage

---

Oh my god I wasn't even thinking about Gubal Library, almost every single boss mechanic in that place is incompatible with the terrible Trust AI.

Must remember to enjoy that place while I can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GeminiReed

If I was a solo-only player I'd feel pretty burned right now by the decision to skip the trial conversions. At best I'd wait until all the mandatory instances were converted. At worst I'd shake the dust off my feet and add Yoshi-P to the "avoid this dev's work" list. (And before anybody gets their knickers in a twist, that's an extreme, most people would fall somewhere between the two)

---

If I were a daily-roulettes player I'd feel pretty burned by the decision to delete and same-ify all the interesting mechs in the MSQ content (which is a majority of what I get in daily roulettes) to make it compatible with badly-programmed NPC AI.

And as it turns out, I am a daily-roulettes player, and I do feel burned.

Eh, I love it and wish trusts had been around in ARR back when I was new.

1) I can play at my own pace. No more do I have to ZERG through every dungeon, frantically worrying if my DPS output meets the high standards of that one player scrutinizing my every missed positional. I can stop and appreciate teh dungeon design, I can read story notes, interact with nodes. I can take my time reading dialogue and enjoy cut scenes without the anxiety of worrying about what everyone else thinks.

2) I can learn a new or unfamiliar Job without that one angry asshole who can't stand someone else NOT playing at their level. I can learn mechanics by following NPC's and learn the basics of a dungeon before trying it with friends.

3) I enjoy the random Trust NPC dialogue and story bits you learn. Like Estinien and Yasale bickering back and forth about the ethics of killing dragons. Just love it.


4) I can AFK without feeling like I'm pissing 3 other people off.

5) And this one is huge. If I'm gonna run a dungeon with 3 AI like characters who refuse to talk, interact with me or in any way act social or friendly, why not perfect AI that ALMOST always gets the mechanics right? (and doesn't run like a bat out of hell out of the dungeon faster than I can close my cut scene?)

Bonus) I can see funny shit like watching Asilae yeet herself into an AOE, or follow Estinien only for him to dragoon LEAP himself to safty, leaving me to die.

About the only thing I dislike about Trusts overall is that they are encouraged over playing with other people. You know, the reason for playing a MMO in the first place.

It's not subtle, the option to play with trusts is highlighted with an icon and is the first option in the list.

i like them but I haven't really done any AAR trusts yet. I use them mostly for MSQ clears.