SCH shields are overwriting SGE shields

Date & Time: 2022-08-31
Frequency: consistently
World name: Hyperion
Character name: Hyuna Snowcookie
Class/Level: Scholar lvl 88
Party or solo: party
In-game time: N/A
Area and coordinates: N/A
Steps:
1. Cast Eukrasian Diagnosis/Prognosis on player/party
2. Cast Adloquium on player with eukrasian shield
3. Adlo overwrites the eukrasian shield
4. Using deployment tactics after casting adlo will also overwrite the eukrasian shield

I understand this is an odd thing to submit as a bug report, but I am convinced this is a bug. Before 6.2, you wouldn't be able to overwrite sage's shields with adlo. It was only sage's shields that could overwrite scholar shields. But since 6.2, I've bee in two different roulettes where I was able to cast adlo to remove e. diagnosis/prognosis as well as deploy said adlo. It's not something that was mentioned as being changed in the patch notes, but it seems to have changed.

That’s a good thing, SCH’s shields are stronger they should overwrite SGE’s shields. This was a fix weve asked for forever

Tried testing it on my chocobo and I couldn't overwrite E Diag with Adlo, Spreadlo or Succor.

All the above could overwrite E Prog. I think that's new?

E Prog and E Diag could overwrite Adlo, Spreadlo and Succor.

If my testing was correct I can't see how it's much of a fix. SCH can't deny a toxicon proc but SGE can still accidentally ruin a Spreadlo.

Any kind of shield used by SGE or SCH will overwrite the other under this only condition :

It will replace the shield ONLY if the casted shield has a higher value than the old one.

Which mean that if a SGE got less stuff than the SCH it's completely normal for the SCH to overwrite the shield.

Same goes if the shield is "Damaged", you basically refresh it.

For me, it's not a bug, but working as intended

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

Any kind of shield used by SGE or SCH will overwrite the other under this only condition :

It will replace the shield ONLY if the casted shield has a higher value than the old one.

Which mean that if a SGE got less stuff than the SCH it's completely normal for the SCH to overwrite the shield.

Same goes if the shield is "Damaged", you basically refresh it.

For me, it's not a bug, but working as intended

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That’s definitely new because a SGE using e prognosis used to be able to fully block a SCH from using any shield except catalyse which can’t be spread

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

That’s definitely new because a SGE using e prognosis used to be able to fully block a SCH from using any shield except catalyse which can’t be spread

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Succor would be blocked, but adloquium wouldnt. But as SCH you barely use this in any 8man duty to begin with. For single target healing you generaly would go for the ogcd alternative instead. As its 2 healers the ogcd healing output of both together is generaly well exceeding anything the trials/raids throw at you (in savage that might be diffirent, i have no experience there).

I think thats mainly why you dont see it as often. (and note, this still requires a crit heal)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

That’s definitely new because a SGE using e prognosis used to be able to fully block a SCH from using any shield except catalyse which can’t be spread

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This isn't new at all.

In fact, shield replacing one another was already a thing back to Shadowbringer when Astromancer could use the Nocturnal Stance (Shield Stance).

and the explanation is the exact same as my last post..

So after some more testing here is what happens :


Adlo can't replace E-Prognosis even if Adlo is stronger then E-prognosis.

E-Prognosis WILL REPLACE Adlo, no matter what the strengh of the shield is.

The critical effect of both shield can be cumulated on one target, resulting in an absurd amount of shield for one target. (Catalyze + Differential Diagnosis + E-Prognosis will basically make a shield around 540% of the heal done if the two healers got similar equipment, which is... yeah kinda overpowered but not exactly that usefull either.)


How shield should be working :

Adlo/E-prognosis would replace each other if the value of the shield exceed the first (For exemple, adlo make 5000, then Prognosis 6000, Prognosis will be the shield)

If a heal is critical, the same rules apply for the first shield (Not the special shield triggered by critical). Replacement of the shield must be done on final value alone and not base value.

The critical shield can still cumulate on any target because it's not specified that Catalyze and Differential Diagnosis can't apply to the same target.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

Succor would be blocked, but adloquium wouldnt. But as SCH you barely use this in any 8man duty to begin with. For single target healing you generaly would go for the ogcd alternative instead. As its 2 healers the ogcd healing output of both together is generaly well exceeding anything the trials/raids throw at you (in savage that might be diffirent, i have no experience there).

I think thats mainly why you dont see it as often. (and note, this still requires a crit heal)

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E prognosis used to block adlo so you couldn’t spread adlo if a SGE cast e prog and if a SGE cast e prog that would remove spreadlo in savage, that was a massive problem

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

This isn't new at all.

In fact, shield replacing one another was already a thing back to Shadowbringer when Astromancer could use the Nocturnal Stance (Shield Stance).

and the explanation is the exact same as my last post.

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Shield replacing shields is not new, adlo overwriting e prognosis is new, up till recently e prognosis would totally block a SCH from being able to spreadlo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Shield replacing shields is not new, adlo overwriting e prognosis is new, up till recently e prognosis would totally block a SCH from being able to spreadlo

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I've done some testing and edited my last post. Take a look at it, I can assure you that Adlo can't overwrite e prognosis no matter how strong the shield can be. SGE is still blocking SCH to do shield, which is absolutely not normal.

I think I missunderstood the initial problem

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

I've done some testing and edited my last post. Take a look at it, I can assure you that Adlo can't overwrite e prognosis no matter how strong the shield can be. SGE is still blocking SCH to do shield, which is absolutely not normal.

I think I missunderstood the initial problem

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Oh then I misunderstood the OP, I assumed that adlo could overwrite e prognosis with this apparent change which is a good thing, I think we both got turned around here haha