Dumb things about tanks

I play tank, I've played all the tanks... these are the things I have found to be dumb or make no sense.

Paladin:

Divine Veil: Why do I have to heal for it to proc? Why does it not affect me? Dumb.
Cover: Why does this cost Oath? Dumb
Riot Blade: Looks dumb (IMO) replace it with Rage of Halone

Warrior:

Shake It Off: Why does this remove buffs I already have on for a 2% boost? Dumb!
Orogeny: Why did this need to exist, just make Upheaval and AoE. Dumb
Inner Release: Not dumb but I do think a duration buff would be nice.

Dark Knight:

Abyssal Drain: Why is the cure potency so low, buff to 400 cure potency. Dumb
Oblation: What is this thing? What does it do? Whack a 200 cure potency regen on it.
Blackest Night: Why do I get punished for using this if it doesn't break. Kinda Dumb

Gunbreaker:

Heart of Corundum: You had a chance to give it 1000 potency ... why not take it?
Double Down: I don't see why this had to be 2 cartridges.
No Mercy: Maybe increase the duration a bit, I don't know just saying.

Shirk:

Can we just make it so this isn't needed, I know I know dumbing down... but do we really need to have this? Just buff taunt and get rid of this.

Those are the things I think are dumb, feel free to add what you think is dumb ... or call me dumb IDK.

Well that's just like, your opinion man.

Imagine thinking having the ability to buff Shake it Off is dumb.

This is mostly opinion but to answer some:

Cover
It was completely broken. PLD had the possibility to take a double tank buster on its own and take 0 damage with Hallowed Ground.
Today it's not that strong and the effect is not worth the 50 gauge. Yes it needs something.

Oblation
Don't underestimate Oblation, its flexibility is incredibly useful in content with very high damage.

Orogeny
Yes, I agree...
Samurai has 3 of those, cooldown shared between a ST and a AoE variant.
In my opinion this is pure button bloating. In certain content it will never be used and just occupy your hotbar.

No mercy&Inner release
Timer based buff were a big problem which is why WAR got it on stacks rather than duration.
You needed a specific SKS to get all 5 GCDs within the timer and that SKS depended on your ping.

Same goes for No Mercy, if you extend it many will seek to fit one more GCDs in the buff window.

No Mercy being 20 seconds duration is just enough to fit my burst in, though I know I'm no where near optimal, I still manage to throw every cooldown I have in that window as well as all my cartridges with bloodfest.

I mean, a longer duration would be nice and appreciated, but I don't think it's wholly necessary. Can't speak on the others since I'm still leveling my tanks this xpac.

Oblation or TBN could have a heal baked into them to help with drk's terrible sustain, but I think the fact it struggles with that gives my healer something to do. Although, I am starting to improve at using more of its mitigation in dungeons instead of relying on just TBN, so survival isn't as hard as I once thought it was.

U hit the nail on the head with a lot of those.

Dont agree with shake, IR and No Mercy though. 15 sec IR is already 50% better than it used to be. GBR already does a lot of dmg, even with 0 speed u can fit all ur burst in (maybe not last burst strike), rest is just fluff. Shake buffing is a legitimate, though niche mechanic. I use it a good number of times in DSR where that extra umph is quite nice p3 final chorus e.g., 21% shield is 40% better than 15%

I think the optimal way of using No Mercy after starting Gnashing Fang is dumb, and the rotation difference from GNB 80 to 90 is so clunky and extremely punishing if you don't do what is difficult to believe is "intentional."

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Originally Posted by LoadedVirus

or call me dumb IDK.

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I will never call you dumb.

/ehug!

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

This is mostly opinion but to answer some:

Cover
It was completely broken. PLD had the possibility to take a double tank buster on its own and take 0 damage with Hallowed Ground.
Today it's not that strong and the effect is not worth the 50 gauge. Yes it needs something.

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This hasn't been a thing since early ARR, they fixed this interaction so early that nobody even remembers anymore. Cover was however way too strong in Stormblood since it gave you 20% mitigation for free, allowing you to take tank busters with nothing but Cover and Shelltron.

Regarding GNB, I always wondered why they don't just make every action from Continuation unlocked when Continuation is unlocked at 70. Maybe it's a balancing thing, but tanks have generally gotten certain actions at really odd levels throughout the years due to them simply being new additions per xpac.

But I'm a bit selfish, I wish every GNB cartridge action had a Continuation proc, including Fated Circle and Double Down. And I think Hypervelocity is inoffensive enough that it should be available as soon as Continuation is gained.

I can't be the only one who thinks that, especially having grown up playing earlier FF titles like VIII where most of the basis for the job came from.

I kinda like that drk doesn't get a lot of healing compared to the other tanks, but it should be balanced out by having something else (preferably damage) instead. I think the game is a lot more enjoyable when there are tangible differences between classes. Homogenisation makes the game boring.

DRK does have a damage advantage.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

DRK does have a damage advantage.

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back in 6.0 yeah but not that is a very small margin and doesn't make up for sustain issues
but this should be another DRK Fourm continuing on

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

DRK does have a damage advantage.

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I know. And i don't even think that DRK needs buffs. But all i'm saying is that if it does, i'd much, much rather see damage buffs than healing buffs that would make it more like the other tanks.

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Originally Posted by xAFROx

Regarding GNB, I always wondered why they don't just make every action from Continuation unlocked when Continuation is unlocked at 70. Maybe it's a balancing thing, but tanks have generally gotten certain actions at really odd levels throughout the years due to them simply being new additions per xpac.

But I'm a bit selfish, I wish every GNB cartridge action had a Continuation proc, including Fated Circle and Double Down. And I think Hypervelocity is inoffensive enough that it should be available as soon as Continuation is gained.

I can't be the only one who thinks that, especially having grown up playing earlier FF titles like VIII where most of the basis for the job came from.

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The idea might sound nice in theory, but the gameplay reality is that having an oGCD on every cardtridge action makes it absolutely terrible to play in higher end content, there can be such a thing as too many oGCDs.

Hypervelocity is already an annoying addition because the proper GnB rotation is rather rigid, especially now that Bloodfest is a 2 minute cooldown, which makes actually weaving your tank mitigation an issue depending on boss timings and where you currently are in your rotation.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

The idea might sound nice in theory, but the gameplay reality is that having an oGCD on every cardtridge action makes it absolutely terrible to play in higher end content, there can be such a thing as too many oGCDs.

Hypervelocity is already an annoying addition because the proper GnB rotation is rather rigid, especially now that Bloodfest is a 2 minute cooldown, which makes actually weaving your tank mitigation an issue depending on boss timings and where you currently are in your rotation.

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Yeah, figured I'd get a response like that. I'm just looking to the job fantasy of being Squall. Continuation is literally his Renzokuken limit break, and the idea of that is already present with the gnashing fang combo, but considering fated circle is only used in dungeon packs, giving an ogcd follow up to that honestly doesn't sound so bad. I will admit that hypervelocity is a bit busy to use, but I'm also an idiot who likes having more to press, lol.

Question, do you play all the tanks, or just have them all leveled? Because your WAR points lead me to believe you don't understand the job lol. I can see the case for Orogeny, but the Shake and IR points are just....kind of cringe, if I'm being honest.

Don't understand why you'd ever buff Shake it Off? Well for one thing, you're allowed to do it at the END of a CD's effect; i.e. rocking some combinations of vengeance, thrill, and BW (or all 3!) for a Tank buster, then to shake right after for better shields than shaking by itself. Same applies to dungeons for sure: make use of 95% effect of your own CD, and then use it to buff Shake. Why wouldn't you be doing this?

Inner Release on a timer? You mean the way it used to be? Why should WAR have one ability making use of SkP, with absolutely no other synergy in the whole kit? Without at least a DoT to scale (barely) with the stat, we're just better off just being a "slow-hitting" tank and not having any use for SkP besides aligning oGCDs and whatnot. This may not even be the go-to reason for people praising IR's adjustment in EW, but at least for me, this is how I always saw it.

I think I'm being misunderstood, first I get why you would want to buff shake it off ... I don't get however why it should be required to consume the other buffs to do it. Second no I don't want it on a timer like in the past, that would be insane. I would like the duration of said stacks to be slightly longer for convenience sake.

It promotes interactivity within WAR's toolkit—something the game in general sorely lacks.

Sure, you could have Shake it Off be buffed as long as its cast coincides with the appropriate effects being active, but that's a more shallow interaction than having those effects be consumed; opportunity cost isn't an inherently bad thing. This would also increase WAR's mitigation ceiling. It wouldn't be a massive buff, especially given its general impracticality, but it would still be highly unwarranted.

Dumb things about Tanks, Spells.
Only effects dark Knight and Paladin, but all skills should be weaponskills and not spells.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

Dumb things about Tanks, Spells.
Only effects dark Knight and Paladin, but all skills should be weaponskills and not spells.

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Either that, or a passive trait that equalizes their Skill- and Spellspeed.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Either that, or a passive trait that equalizes their Skill- and Spellspeed.

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...or merging both stats into just Speed.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

...or merging both stats into just Speed.

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Or that, whichever is easier for them to implement.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Or that, whichever is easier for them to implement.

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Year 4 of asking them to consolidate this god damn stat already.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Year 4 of asking them to consolidate this god damn stat already.

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"After careful consideration we have decided to remove the damage component from Tenacity to balance tank damage."

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

"After careful consideration we have decided to remove the damage component from Tenacity to balance tank damage."

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In a certain sense it would be funny, because it would imply that they actually think we're all stacking tenacity.

Considering some of their decisions, I wouldn't be surprised to learn they actually do think we're stacking Tenacity.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Considering some of their decisions, I wouldn't be surprised to learn they actually do think we're stacking Tenacity.

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Me and a friend of mine generally stack tenacity as we preferred survivability over raw damage for the last few xpacs. I'm slowly moving away from that bit by bit, but it really is jarring the moments I take next to no damage regardless of mitigation and suddenly melt like a wet tissue even with mitigation in similar situations.

No, I'm not a high end content person.

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Originally Posted by xAFROx

Me and a friend of mine generally stack tenacity as we preferred survivability over raw damage for the last few xpacs. I'm slowly moving away from that bit by bit, but it really is jarring the moments I take next to no damage regardless of mitigation and suddenly melt like a wet tissue even with mitigation in similar situations.

No, I'm not a high end content person.

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That's simply down to different tank busters hitting for different amounts of damage on top of damage being able to roll high or low within a certain range.

Tenacity rarely has much of an influence on your survival due to how much you'd have to stack to get any noticeable mitigation out of it. The question is basically, how often did you survive a mechanic with maybe 5% hp remaining? If your answer is very rarely or never then you might as well just stack a stat that gives you more damage.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

That's simply down to different tank busters hitting for different amounts of damage on top of damage being able to roll high or low within a certain range.

Tenacity rarely has much of an influence on your survival due to how much you'd have to stack to get any noticeable mitigation out of it. The question is basically, how often did you survive a mechanic with maybe 5% hp remaining? If your answer is very rarely or never then you might as well just stack a stat that gives you more damage.

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I guess? Hard to say when both stormblood and Shadowbringers, once I got to cap, I hardly ever fell below 95% in most normal content. Not sure how my friend fared, I know he's tanked ex at some point before he had to work more. He does point out how often healers sling him praise or surprise at how little damage he takes, so idk.

I hardly play often enough to engage like that these days. Burn out suuuucks.

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Originally Posted by xAFROx

Me and a friend of mine generally stack tenacity as we preferred survivability over raw damage for the last few xpacs. I'm slowly moving away from that bit by bit, but it really is jarring the moments I take next to no damage regardless of mitigation and suddenly melt like a wet tissue even with mitigation in similar situations.

No, I'm not a high end content person.

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Not gonna lie. I wish Tenacity was at least comparable to its competitor stats. There's really no shame in stacking it if you're not planning to do endgame content, but it'd be kinda nice if it was at least properly viable (or maybe even preferable) for endgame content so I'd have an excuse to use it for more than memeing normals.

I used to build Tenacity sets once my main sets were done just so I could pull them out in dungeons for the lulz. Had a few times where healers genuinely got annoyed because they weren't even necessary outside of the occasional DPS standing in derp.

I will never understand why PLD players care so religiously much about their veil not proccing on them.
I'd like to know one situation in wich a dps / healer would survive a mechanic and a tank wouldn't.
More defense, more hp, 20% natural mitigation.

Genuinly : it doesn't make any logical sense why pld convinced themselve of a problem that is, in reality, not one at all

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Originally Posted by Dingodrole

I will never understand why PLD players care so religiously much about their veil not proccing on them.
I'd like to know one situation in wich a dps / healer would survive a mechanic and a tank wouldn't.
More defense, more hp, 20% natural mitigation.

Genuinly : it doesn't make any logical sense why pld convinced themselve of a problem that is, in reality, not one at all

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Okay, let's have SE remove Shake it Off, Dark Missionary and Heart of Light applying to their respective tank it they cast it, they already have more mitigation than Paladin.

But maybe since Paladin has less personal mitigation, asking for a simple and similar bit of mitigation to what the other tanks have, wouldn't be a big ask, or is a simple request by Paladins to be gatekept again?

And "religiously" nah mate, literally what every other tank mains did in the past, seen something they liked and asked for it, got it, no reason why Paladin can't get the same.

I wish tenacity was useful and needed. What's the point of a stat that most tanks avoid like the plague, and that nobody ever needs because focusing on tenacity will gimp you in every other aspect.

It's just such a waste.

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Originally Posted by Sjark

I wish tenacity was useful and needed. What's the point of a stat that most tanks avoid like the plague, and that nobody ever needs because focusing on tenacity will gimp you in every other aspect.

It's just such a waste.

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I dislike the substats in general but the role specific stats Tenacity and Piety are by far the worst offenders.
SkS/ SpS is the most interesting out of all stats because it's the only one that affects gameplay and offers a bit of a choice in some cases. It's still "stack as much as needed to fit x hits into buff y" (the overfocus on 2min bursts is another huge can of worms) for many classes but it does offer choice for others. There are generally several GCD tiers a class can play at and in addition to that it's nice for adjusting the GCD a bit to personal preference and ping. I know some people deliberately go for a longer GCD because they can't play well at shorter GCDs.
But other than that it's crit meta goes brr, none of them affecting gameplay in any way and avoid role-stats like the plague. I wish Tenacity and Piety were viable choices instead of "avoid at all cost" and "bite the bullet and take some because people suck at mechanics".