So what exactly are "hosts?" in venues?

... because it kinda feels like they're "professional temporary friends," and that feels... awkward and not friendly. I want to understand, this is so new to me!

As I've mentioned in what turned out to be a super helpful thread, I'm really, reeeeeally new to FFXIV's own brand of organized, venue-based RP. I am extremely *not* new to text RP in general, being a long time player of MMOs, user of chat rooms and forums and just a generally "RP savvy" person, being a D&D dungeon master for over 30 years. I know RP, I don't need a "from scratch" RP primer, and I certainly don't need the idea of "ERP sex workers" explained to me. I can see that business model being cut and dry for those buying or selling, and I imagine it's easy to define and likely lucrative, but there's this middle ground that makes me really guarded as an experienced RPer in a FFXIV venue.

What exactly is a "host?" Is it just an "on the clock" standard RPer? If so, how does that fit into a pastime known for making friends, sometimes long term friends to share RP with? I ask this rather awkwardly under the hood question because... "on the clock" RP is this thing I feel I constantly need to watch out for, so I don't waste someone's paid time, get depressingly presented with a bill for chatting someone friendly up, or get my own legitimately friendly hopes up. I'm new here, trying to like.. meet cool people, for, you know... friendships that aren't on the clock.

Again, I'm not talking about flirting and ERP, I know how that works and I know there are brothels, but I don't go to pointedly ERP-slanted venues. I mean I'm sure it happens but I don't go there looking for it.

When I browse the "staff" section of a venue's carrd or website, there are clear delineating lines of who the ERP-open "social staff" are and again, that's fine, but there are also people that like... aren't bartenders or bouncers or the owner, they're "staff," for RP, sometimes "paid RP," with ERP delineated seperately among the staff. So there are "pro RPers," not ERPers, on the clock and... like... does that not feel weird to anyone else? Like what if you hit it off and connect and make a new friend... and then the time runs out, the bar closes and... like... "see you next week, I'm off the clock now." Is that... like... a thing? That doesn't feel deflating to people? How does anyone connect when half the people conversing are... on the clock? I'm so afraid to get overly attached to people at venues. The venues I like, but the people... they're "staff." That has my guard up considerably.

Like I feel there's this underlying "don't try to befriend or pester the staff on their own time, they'll be back next week," so I'm very arms length because I mean, I want to respect that, but that also feels... hollow?

Can someone illuminate how this... fits? Like is there a detail I'm missing? I don't mean to knock anyone who buys these services, but I mean... as someone who has no intention of "renting temporary friends," should I just... not talk to people that are on the clock as "hosts?"

Please, be gentle, it's my first time... but please make it make sense. This is just a wholly new phenomenon to me, and either I misunderstand it completely or it feels... hollow to me.

Again, I am *NOT* talking about ERP services. If the truth I'm not getting is that "that's what hosts are, even the ones that say they're not into ERP," I mean, ok, but that's not very intuitive, or even honest. But assuming that the socializing "staff" that "aren't into ERP" are being honest... I don't get it. And it makes me afraid to do the very thing I seek these things out for: to meet people and make friends, like actual friends, not rented ones that I need to give courteous "professional distance" to between venue openings. Like, full disclosure, this thread is motivated by legit bad feelings coming out of my character potentially making a new friend this evening... until closing time.

Thanks for any and all helpful replies. I know that was a bit meandering but this is a really sensitive topic and I hope the discussion can reflect that.

If you're a host, should I just not expect any meaningful connection with you? Are we all just marks/customers? Seriously, I don't mean that negatively, I'm legitimately asking to set expectations and to understand and respect this thing you do! I've literally never encountered a thing like this, or a dynamic like it in RP or real life. Waiters/Servers/Bartenders I get. Sex workers are a concept I understand from a distance. This "host" thing... I don't get it.

Thank you for reading!

I can't say much about it in FFXIV but in the Metaverse I experienced (Second Life and VRChat), hosts are mostly the ones who are working on the music, aka DJ's, announcing the start of their set to provide tunes and accepting requests for the duration of their session (which lasts from 1-2 hours, depending on their schedule). Along with the Host, other members could be present, be it for dancing, bartending, security or managing smaller events (raffles/contests) within the session.

Behind that is usually a 'Event Coordinator', who assigns Hosts and Staff members to a timetable which they agree upon. That person might also be present during sessions just to have an eye on things.

During the session(s), there should be a level of professionalism to be expected from the whole staff. If you pay/tip them so they get a line for you, then it's paying for their (temporary) attention and nothing else.
Patrons shouldn't expect too much during that time with socializing with the staff, and try not to be clingy on them. If, by chance, you manage to strike a good conversation with them, keep it simple and see if it sticks after the event or not, as to some you just will be a better known patron to them afterwards and nothing else.

Try to realize and respect that if you run into something like this, since it's also a 'job similar like in RL - To be approachable and friendly, and able to strike up conversations with others while keeping them at 'arms length distance', as you would say it. They are there to keep you around, not be friend-friends with you.

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Originally Posted by Omedon

... because it kinda feels like they're "professional temporary friends," and that feels... awkward and not friendly. I want to understand, this is so new to me!

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In Japan there are bars called Host and Hostess clubs where you're essentially paying money, by buying overpriced alcohol, for the companionship of said host/hostess. It's exactly "professional temporary friends" where an attractive person is there to pay hollow compliments and give companionship to lonely people. At the extreme end, customers can become regular "patrons" of said host/hostess and develop potentially pay-for-play relationships outside of the club. Not all workers are like that, but it is a thing. I visited one once with a friend when I lived there and will never go again. It was one of the most uncomfortable experiences I've ever had.

In the game, hosts/hostesses can be just the same as the real world counterpart or simply the one hosting the venue. Sometimes organized groups of people will work as staff; bartender, security, chef, etc where they may get paid Gil by the head of the group for their time working. Again, at the extreme end, there are people who are essentially virtual sex workers and get paid for that sort of thing. On the opposite end I run a bath house/spa venue so could be called the host for guests when it's open.

As for "on the clock RP only", it's not something I've encountered before. I've made player-to-player friendships and started RP stories with people staffing venues as well as with guests at my place. The only pay they get is for helping run the venue when it's open, but are completely open to RP and friendship outside business hours. Even if you go to a bar or club, you're not going to be paying the player directly; the event organizer's the "employer". I wouldn't worry about not being able to interact with people off-hours.

The majority of RPers/venue hosts I know, including myself, run their places for free to give people a place to RP in a themed setting. I occasionally have people wanting to give me tips as a way of thanks for putting the time into creating the space and creating a social atmosphere, but it's completely voluntary and honestly makes me a bit uncomfortable since I'm there to build friendships with people and have fun RPing.

To be clear, the great majority of hosts/hostesses are the one(s) running a completely SFW venue and offer no "personal services".

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

In Japan

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And just like that, it clicks.

The one thing the venues I’ve visited have had in common is that they were chosen to suit my character, who is a samurai, where I’m really just an unworldly white guy from Canada. So it seems “hosts” are a cultural thing being mimicked in what is in this context a "JRPG," where said culture is a neat and desirable backdrop.

Needless to say, I am not interested in paying for that.

Ok, now I know… and maybe I should try different venues because I don’t consider the friendship equivalent of the comedy trope of “girl bills guy after sex and he’s blindsided by it” to be funny. It’s actually kind of really depressing!

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

It was one of the most uncomfortable experiences I've ever had.

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Yes, this.



Thank you for your insight!

And before anyone comes at me with “did it feel good in the moment, and isn’t that worth something,” I respectfully disagree with that line of argument on the grounds of being emotionally fleeced.

You're welcome! I'd recommend visiting regular cafe/bar/restaurant venues to get your feet wet with this community and build relationships.

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Originally Posted by Omedon

And before anyone comes at me with “did it feel good in the moment, and isn’t that worth something,” I respectfully disagree with that line of argument on the grounds of being emotionally fleeced.

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To be fair, that is how EW's story felt to me when I got done with it so if it's good for SE... lol

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

To be fair, that is how EW's story felt to me when I got done with it so if it's good for SE... lol

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Now I have this mental image of a certain white haired crystal mommy handing us a bill for all the good feels she gave us! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

In Japan there are bars called Host and Hostess clubs where you're essentially paying money, by buying overpriced alcohol, for the companionship of said host/hostess. It's exactly "professional temporary friends" where an attractive person is there to pay hollow compliments and give companionship to lonely people. At the extreme end, customers can become regular "patrons" of said host/hostess and develop potentially pay-for-play relationships outside of the club. Not all workers are like that, but it is a thing. I visited one once with a friend when I lived there and will never go again. It was one of the most uncomfortable experiences I've ever had.

In the game, hosts/hostesses can be just the same as the real world counterpart or simply the one hosting the venue. Sometimes organized groups of people will work as staff; bartender, security, chef, etc where they may get paid Gil by the head of the group for their time working. Again, at the extreme end, there are people who are essentially virtual sex workers and get paid for that sort of thing. On the opposite end I run a bath house/spa venue so could be called the host for guests when it's open.

As for "on the clock RP only", it's not something I've encountered before. I've made player-to-player friendships and started RP stories with people staffing venues as well as with guests at my place. The only pay they get is for helping run the venue when it's open, but are completely open to RP and friendship outside business hours. Even if you go to a bar or club, you're not going to be paying the player directly; the event organizer's the "employer". I wouldn't worry about not being able to interact with people off-hours.

To be clear, the great majority of hosts/hostesses are the one(s) running a completely SFW venue and offer no "personal services".

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Thanks for the explanation, that is very enlightening, coming from one who doesn't really engage with RP in-game.

Pardon me but could anyone help explain why one would pay for companionship in-game, when you can literally join a community or like group of like-minded friends via the various social channels available such as linkshells, free companies or even outside communities such as discord/forums etc..?

At least in real life, I can understand paying someone attractive for companionship but I literally can't wrap my mind around why one would do it in-game when there's no physical intimacy and it's just one toon engaging with another in conversation and people actually pay for that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Omedon

Now I have this mental image of a certain white haired crystal mommy handing us a bill for all the good feels she gave us! :D

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*Looks at bill*
*Looks at Emet-Selch*
*Rereads bill*
I think it's yours m8. :^)

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Originally Posted by DeNada

Thanks for the explanation, that is very enlightening, coming from one who doesn't really engage with RP in-game.

Pardon me but could anyone help explain why one would pay for companionship in-game, when you can literally join a community or like group of like-minded friends via the various social channels available such as linkshells, free companies or even outside communities such as discord/forums etc..?

At least in real life, I can understand paying someone attractive for companionship but I literally can't wrap my mind around why one would do it in-game when there's no physical intimacy and it's just one toon engaging with another in conversation and people actually pay for that?

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Because gil is extremely easy to make and some people see no issue with throwing it at random catgirls. Also, some don't want to go through the effort of maintaining actual friendships online so paying for it is the next best thing. Let's also not forget the crowd of people who also view this game as their real life because their own isn't to their liking.

Or maybe someone is lonely at 2 AM and wants to feel wanted by a random girl for an hour, idk.

I personally won't pay for it either but I don't judge those who do.

I always picture a host as like a body some bug or virus is eating off of, like it's found it's host & now it's gonna go all parasite.

A hostess I picture as that snack cake company that makes all the cakes u see in gas stations or grocery stores.

Just some additional information, regarding Hosts/Hostesses in Japan:

As others have said: You are paying for short-term companionship. People who go to these kinds of things regularly do so because they can talk to people without getting judged (to their face anyway). Think cheap therapy: people can vent and just say whatever is on their mind without it coming back to haunt them and/or without the need of a more clinical/helpful situation (aka real therapy). On top of that, Host/Hostesses tend to be very charming/entertaining in their own way (telling jokes, magic tricks, etc). With a group of shy friends or a group blind date kinda situation, a host can help by providing light entertainment. There also isn't really the negativity associated with, say, a strip club. It's a pretty standard thing to do with companies and visiting customers because they can drink and laugh and the company reps don't have to work too hard at keeping the customers happy.

For most though, I would say it's more like being a regular at a bar and talking to the bartender about your horrible boss/asking for dating advice.

All that said, it's not my thing, but I get why people might enjoy it- especially my shy friends.

When I think venue host I think of "the dude running the joint" like a party host.

I doubt it's the JP meaning on non JP servers.

I'm hosting an event tonight on the Steps of Nald on Balmung at 8PM Mountain time at the location of X - 10.3 and Y - 8.5 doing Squats for...I dunno...4 hours? Come watch.

PLEASE LOOK FORWARD TO IT.

They're servers, hosts, etc.

I seriously miss the golden era of FFXIV and not this circle jerking Final Second Life Fantasy Sims XIV that have become in the last 3 years.