Idea - Style Select for Jobs

You have 2 modes to select through;

Simple; For a more casual player. One button combos for AOEs and Single Target, using its own set of unique abilities. Guaranteed to deal enough damage to clear content comfortably. Would require knowledge of mechanics to pass at minimum for higher end*.

Complex; For those who wish to play a more involved system, using its own set of unique abilities. Will allow variance in DPS based on player skill.

You couldn't use abilities from Simple when using Complex and vice versa.

I believe fighting games are starting to employ things like this so that newer people can play the games, but higher end players are able to chip away at whatever ceiling exists. I think this may be a fair compromise for both parties of combat enjoyers. Local man just desperately wants his old FF14 combat identity back in some fashion.

Thoughts?

*Up to Extreme Content only. Rationale is that Extremes aren't as intense as the highest end and mostly are for, imo, glam/cosmetic/mount purposes and a marginal bump in power compared to the highest available.

Thats not a bad idea at all. I believe Street Fighter 6 is using that system too. It would be awesome to really introduce newer players while not having to simplify the game for everyone else.

I would add that simple mode should only be allowed for normal difficulty raids and trials. Savage content should be kept with the complex controls. Part of the difficulty in Savage is rotation execution while performing the mechanics correctly, so it makes sense.

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Originally Posted by NoyleOyle

Thats not a bad idea at all. I believe Street Fighter 6 is using that system too. It would be awesome to really introduce newer players while not having to simplify the game for everyone else.

I would add that simple mode should only be allowed for normal difficulty raids and trials. Savage content should be kept with the complex controls. Part of the difficulty in Savage is rotation execution while performing the mechanics correctly, so it makes sense.

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Fair point! I originally intending to be as inclusive as possible, but yeah, the highest end should keep some prestige. How do you feel about Extremes being opened up to Simple? I wouldn't be against it personally, but I know everyone differs in their opinions.

Great idea, but let me refine it a little bit. Remove both modes and instead use spectrum. Let's rename "complex mode" to "skill ceiling" and "simple mode" to "skill floor". It would be unnecessarily hard to balance game around these 2 modes, so let's just use single set of abilities. Idea is, if player isn't good enough, they can stick to just simple 1-2-3. But whenever they feel more comfortable, they can slowly build up their skillset and start using more and more abilities. Maybe even read some tooltips. This way, player who used "simple mode" won't be scared to switch to "complex mode", because there is no wall, but instead slow, gradual hill. This model is so simple yet effective, that nearly every game uses it and it just works, as long as there is enough space in between ceiling and floor and floor isn't too high. Which, in case of FFXIV, is definitely not for any job.

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If you're serious, just get that combo addon and leave us alone. Don't ruin the game for others that actually want to play the game, instead of letting the game play itself.

That might hurt the casual's ego.

A small area above the hotbars showing the rotation the one button is doing with the proper icons too.

So, someone in simple mode can press their single/aoe rotation button and see what that button is doing when (if) they take the training wheels off.

You got my vote +1. :3

It kind of already works this way doesn't it? Just without explicitly asking inexperienced players if they want to play on easy mode (a little patronizing). These players will neglect their more advanced parts of their rotation anyways and they still get output viable for normal content.

Unless this is more to allow the design of complex rotations without being restrained by the need to also accommodate the less experienced players. That could be useful. Still though, I don't know about completely segregating it into two modes. First and foremost, it would mean redesigning every job twice. And secondly, as I mentioned, it can be patronizing to players to be asked if they want to play easy mode or the real gamer mode.

I would suggest just ways for players to customize their rotation. Like the rotation starts simple and they get a list of additional abilities to choose from like how PvP worked before the rework. And some of these options would be just replacements for their current rotation with flashier cosmetics and slightly increased potencies. Other options would be ogcds, burst cooldown abilities, and job gauge stuff that would mathematically have more throughput. That way players who have zero interest in the meta and more interest in immersing with their character still feel they made empowering decisions, and players who engage in higher level content get to have rotations as complex and engaging as they want. You wouldn't need to restrict abilities in savage+ content because the throughput difference will just make it so you have to pick the more complex options for savage+ anyways. Will there be people who pick the lower end options for savage? Sure. There are also people who try to do savage without materia, pots, and food.

Edit: This would also let players not have to all-or-nothing the complex rotation. If they feel they're not at that level but want to improve, they can slowly build their way there with the options they pick.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

You have 2 modes to select through;

Simple; For a more casual player. One button combos for AOEs and Single Target, using its own set of unique abilities. Guaranteed to deal enough damage to clear content comfortably. Would require knowledge of mechanics to pass at minimum for higher end*.

Complex; For those who wish to play a more involved system, using its own set of unique abilities. Will allow variance in DPS based on player skill.

You couldn't use abilities from Simple when using Complex and vice versa.

I believe fighting games are starting to employ things like this so that newer people can play the games, but higher end players are able to chip away at whatever ceiling exists. I think this may be a fair compromise for both parties of combat enjoyers. Local man just desperately wants his old FF14 combat identity back in some fashion.

Thoughts?

*Up to Extreme Content only. Rationale is that Extremes aren't as intense as the highest end and mostly are for, imo, glam/cosmetic/mount purposes and a marginal bump in power compared to the highest available.

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Clever idea ! Would even have positives for older player doing roulette stuff since it artificially elevate the "skill floor" of a new player.

As a casual, I don't want a one button combo, between the complex combos and not having to press anything at all it's the worst option.

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Originally Posted by Ilisidi

As a casual, I don't want a one button combo, between the complex combos and not having to press anything at all it's the worst option.

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That's the point of having the option ! :D

It's a good idea that would be ruined by ego or laziness of certain players.

1. You have people with big egos trying to complex set and doing it poorly.

2. You have the lazy trying to do harder content that has enrage timers trying to just coast.

I would worry about learning the 'wrong' mode, and might suggest that X content uses one style and Z content uses another. Though such a suggestion would do better designed from the onset than so late into the game. Also just thinking that people who use third party tools would get the value of the 'hard set' while still playing at the level of the easy set. Such that I think perhaps just making some jobs do this, and some jobs not.. may be an adequate solutions too. For example SMN can remain compact two bar job, but continue to get more nuanced and complex skills built into their stacking tight frame (obviously right now, especially pre 86 they're fairly straight forward- but if you look at it more like a GW2 build.. you could keep it tight and also have it have a lot of things to do).

Personally I prefer the more compact designs with more interesting abilities / less bloat. Certainly if the job is 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 7 5 1 2 3... That's not great.. lol. But if it could be 1 4 1 5 1 4 1 7 1 1 3 1 4 6 8 1 9 1 2 4 1 1. I'm okay with that. For skills that neatly stack, or collapse, that's good to me. Though because this game is established I think changing everything over is like changing a lot of content some may have liked over to something they didn't want.

The OP suggestion certainly strikes a balance so more jobs could take advantage, while not pulling the rug from people who do like it, but I just imagine if there is substantial or valuable differences from simple and complex that it will end up just being "you learned it wrong" and also a lot of players using the complex kit with third party support making it just as easy as the simple kit.. raising the skill bar artificially.

More on the first thought, that perhaps could be done on the onset (beginning of the game), and is a similar vein of idea as OP just a bit more pervasive:
Mixed with some classes exhibiting playstyle nuance differences to further extenuate the aspects. For example if story mode content had less balance but more class flavor (but obviously story content is not as hard so you can usually have half your group asleep at the wheel and still win), could be fun- meanwhile since it's for casual content generally skills might be more logically helpful to themselves with compact designs. This doesn't mean 'dodo' designs, just if a skill can stack by design it will. Meanwhile the hard content would use the other more balanced and technical build, flavor might be 'tried' to be preserved but balance being more strict here... so sometimes it might be sacrificed. Then on top of that some jobs would be more or less complicated or have certain gimmicks that speak to their style, this being exaggerated in the story mode 'style'.

At any time you can choose to use the ex/ultimate, but that doesn't mean it is better. In fact the story mode would probably be better in specific niche situations 9 out of 10 times, because the story mode build is allowed to have distinct characteristics. Story mode can be used for any story content part of the MSQ and any content that echo allows, or perhaps epic echo to be more balanced (as once certain content becomes 'story mode'-able they will likely be VERY do-able by jobs that niche fit the mechanics of that content).

Theoretically this might allow Blue Mage into the content as well, as they'd have story mode and hyper balanced mode.

This is a good idea.

Since the game currently only has the Simple option you described, they should add a Complex one.

But does it work for any type of content? Like if its for dungeon only, i guess its fine, like you can toggle between simple and comples at any time. Simple is for people that just want to enjoy the story or doing dailies from DR, and Complex is for people to learn their job and want to do some challenging fight

But can simple mode be use in extreme/savage/ultimate? If you can, then i strongly disagree with this option