[Suggestion] Battle Mechanics.

This is a build on the incapitation system, but here is a few suggestions from a certain game I play (lets make this fun, see if you can guess which game I am talking about).

Currently we have different damage types in game (like piercing, projectile, slashing and blunt) what I think would made battle more dynamic is have large mobs (for example primals) where melee can only attack the legs, because they cannot reach any other body part, have mobs weak to certain damage types, and if enough of the large mobs weakness is done on the legs (for example) they will fall to the ground, allowing melee to attack other body parts (head, body, arms etc) with some body parts weaker than others and either an evasion or defence down debuff on the mob when it is staggered.

Also only a weapon skill can stagger the mobs.

This would make more classes more viable (due to specific weaknesses especially in raids) and make fights more dynamic shuffling round to get to the weak point once a mob is staggered.

BLM and BRD would be able to choose which body part they want to attack because they can reach all body parts (as long as they can see them.)

In the game this idea is from this tactic is vital when fighting the huge mobs and gives a little bit of a breather if needed.

For this to work we would need some more larger mobs adding (similar to primals and great buffalo.)

White Knight Chronicles

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Originally Posted by Andrien

White Knight Chronicles

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Didn't think it would be hard lol, but yeah, I really love the break and stagger system in that game, and it could work well in FFXIV with huge mobs (lets see spiders 3x the size of us in dungeons :p)

I like this idea, it prevents class/job stacking as you would surely need different attack types throughout a fight.

It would also ease us away from the boring static tank and spank fights

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Originally Posted by Altanas

It would also ease us away from the boring static tank and spank fights

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What? All three of them. really I wasn't aware there was so much tank and spank that we need to redo the
battle mechcanics for the whole game. A boss battle here and there sure that's cool. but the whole game. NO.
Hell it took forever to get GLA/PLD to work smei-right. I still think there needs to be alittle more work on that.

I like this idea as long as it doesn't turn into XI's proc content (VW more so then abyssea). In this situation the focus is all proc and kill as fast as you can. Which has left some jobs out.

In your system I like the taking out different parts first. This allows for more strats, and allows for more jobs to be used.

The stagger, and this is just how I feel about it, should not be just WS as this takes away from the mage side. This is also because I don't know how hate really works in this game. I have only played XI where a BLM would get owned fast if attacking seperate things or even if on the same mob lol. For this reason, and due to a lack of party play knowledge,I feel it should be random either spell or WS.

Otherwise I love this idea!!!

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Originally Posted by Kindra

I like this idea as long as it doesn't turn into XI's proc content (VW more so then abyssea). In this situation the focus is all proc and kill as fast as you can. Which has left some jobs out.

In your system I like the taking out different parts first. This allows for more strats, and allows for more jobs to be used.

The stagger, and this is just how I feel about it, should not be just WS as this takes away from the mage side. This is also because I don't know how hate really works in this game. I have only played XI where a BLM would get owned fast if attacking seperate things or even if on the same mob lol. For this reason, and due to a lack of party play knowledge,I feel it should be random either spell or WS.

Otherwise I love this idea!!!

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How it works in WKC is after a specific body part has recieved ennough damage there will be a little icon on each body part that can be broken, then you use an action which is the mobs's weakness on that body part (slashing, blunt or piercing) I don't know how it works with magic because I have never used elemental magic on it. This would then knock the mobs down, and it applies an eva down debuff as well as allowing melee to reach the weak areas

I would not mind if it was made so mages could stagger them as well however keep it in mind mages would be able to attack any body part so it may not be as bad.

Also this would require alot of work but not a complete combat overhaul because it would only work on certain mobs, like great buffalo for example, its just never made sense as to why we can break Ifrit's horns when we can't even reach them.

This could be a way to implement Gigas as well, make them proper giants and melee can only attack the legs, then knock them down and work on weak points or incap horns, arms, head etc and add insta drops from incaped body parts (could be a totem from primals etc or other useful drops)

I'm just thinking about hate control and such as well. I have played endgame XI for years and BLM being one of the jobs I cover there. As a BLM it's easy to get that random hate that kills you off fast. Hard to get out of the Mode where you as a BLM have to be careful so that you make it through the fight lol. 8 years of "Be careful to not get hate." "Don't touch that one!!" you know lol. You have more knowledge of the hate system in 14 then I do, like I said I'm just coming back to XIV, and haven't done party play as of yet lol. Hence why I feel it should be both magic and WS proc's that's all. :)

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Originally Posted by Kindra

I'm just thinking about hate control and such as well. I have played endgame XI for years and BLM being one of the jobs I cover there. As a BLM it's easy to get that random hate that kills you off fast. Hard to get out of the Mode where you as a BLM have to be careful so that you make it through the fight lol. 8 years of "Be careful to not get hate." "Don't touch that one!!" you know lol. You have more knowledge of the hate system in 14 then I do, like I said I'm just coming back to XIV, and haven't done party play as of yet lol. Hence why I feel it should be both magic and WS proc's that's all. :)

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Thunder > Thundara spam and the occasional Thunder > Thundara > Tundaga with a decent tank (if you don't start too soon) there will be no hate problems at all (from what I have seen anyway.) hate is almost a none existant problem unless your tank sucks.

Well then I still feel it should work both ways but can understand the being able to target the other parts as well. I guess i was looking at it more as a crowd control thing, but a part of a mob shouldn't have it's own hate so never mind me lol.

I really do like your idea, just throwing random thoughts out there :).

I really like the idea too, it's neat.
I'm not sure how it works in WKC, but if you were damaging a leg, I wouldn't mind seeing him get back up after like say 20-30 seconds.
Make the fight a little more dynamic and coordinated. Possibly even allow you to keep him down longer if you keep one dude attacking his leg, the rest could focus on his head.
Even make it so as the fight goes on, it takes less and less damage to get him down.

I don't think BLM should take part in this, they can already hit any part, they'd be better off sticking with that. Guess you could add it though.

Maybe taking a mob down would limit it's ability to do some devastating weaponskill (a mage killer), but in place it would have another, say push back or stun, that it could defend itself with while it was down.

idk, just some more to add to it.

If they do something like this, they could make a mage class that can also use different damage types (slashing, peircing, blunt)
earth sword,
earth arrow,
earth club

maybe, lol. idk thought i'd add it.

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Originally Posted by Kindra

I'm just thinking about hate control and such as well. I have played endgame XI for years and BLM being one of the jobs I cover there. As a BLM it's easy to get that random hate that kills you off fast. Hard to get out of the Mode where you as a BLM have to be careful so that you make it through the fight lol. 8 years of "Be careful to not get hate." "Don't touch that one!!" you know lol. You have more knowledge of the hate system in 14 then I do, like I said I'm just coming back to XIV, and haven't done party play as of yet lol. Hence why I feel it should be both magic and WS proc's that's all. :)

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figured, I'd throw you a quick run-down of how hate works in this game incase you were interested.

In ffxi, hate would dissipated over time, in ffxiv it's constant. Once you've created hate, it's there till you reduce it or you die.

hate is 1 damage = 1 enmity; cure = .6 or .75 damage (so cures generate abit less enmity then damage.)

Most actions the enmity generated isn't noticeable, 15-30 enmity. (which is why stoneskin and regen rock as whm)

weaponskills that say increased enmity, the seem to double then enmity generated by the attack.

sentinel increases enmity generated by everything used during by 20%

Freeze seems to lower enmity by the amount of damage it deals.

What you really need to know is the blm stuff, basically just wait until you see the tank use a weaponskill, then start you're attacks. keep your eye on the hate meter, if the tanks decent, there's never really a problem. Use freeze whenever it's available and save chameleon for if you make a boo boo (if you attack after a hate reset, or pull hate).

I never played BLM in xi, but hates pretty easy in this game. If the tank dies, the fights usually over unless you're close enough you can just nuke whatever you're fighting dead.

If it's a tank you've never fought with, or you're not sure how well they'll keep hate, i always just wait a nice chunk of time before I start fighting (30ish seconds), it's just easier for me.

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Originally Posted by ESAR

I really like the idea too, it's neat.
I'm not sure how it works in WKC, but if you were damaging a leg, I wouldn't mind seeing him get back up after like say 20-30 seconds.
Make the fight a little more dynamic and coordinated. Possibly even allow you to keep him down longer if you keep one dude attacking his leg, the rest could focus on his head.
Even make it so as the fight goes on, it takes less and less damage to get him down.

I don't think BLM should take part in this, they can already hit any part, they'd be better off sticking with that. Guess you could add it though.

Maybe taking a mob down would limit it's ability to do some devastating weaponskill (a mage killer), but in place it would have another, say push back or stun, that it could defend itself with while it was down.

idk, just some more to add to it.



figured, I'd throw you a quick run-down of how hate works in this game incase you were interested.

In ffxi, hate would dissipated over time, in ffxiv it's constant. Once you've created hate, it's there till you reduce it or you die.

hate is 1 damage = 1 enmity; cure = .6 or .75 damage (so cures generate abit less enmity then damage.)

Most actions the enmity generated isn't noticeable, 15-30 enmity. (which is why stoneskin and regen rock as whm)

weaponskills that say increased enmity, the seem to double then enmity generated by the attack.

sentinel increases enmity generated by everything used during by 20%

Freeze seems to lower enmity by the amount of damage it deals.

What you really need to know is the blm stuff, basically just wait until you see the tank use a weaponskill, then start you're attacks. keep your eye on the hate meter, if the tanks decent, there's never really a problem. Use freeze whenever it's available and save chameleon for if you make a boo boo (if you attack after a hate reset, or pull hate).

I never played BLM in xi, but hates pretty easy in this game. If the tank dies, the fights usually over unless you're close enough you can just nuke whatever you're fighting dead.

If it's a tank you've never fought with, or you're not sure how well they'll keep hate, i always just wait a nice chunk of time before I start fighting (30ish seconds), it's just easier for me.

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Thats exactly how it works in WKC after so long they get back up I was never meaning that they should stay down the whole fight, just for a few seconds to pump out some extra damage.

ahh, sweet. I wanted to get that game when it was released, but it kinda feel off the radar for me. Sounds awesome though, i'll have to give it a try.

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Originally Posted by ESAR

ahh, sweet. I wanted to get that game when it was released, but it kinda feel off the radar for me. Sounds awesome though, i'll have to give it a try.

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You seriously do, my suggestion is get WKC2, it comes with the first one included so you can play both <3 Kara on it lol, only problem is there will be no more DLC coming out for it, level 5 have already said they don't intend to support the US and EU versions any more, Japan are on v1.14 and we are stuck on v1.01 :(

They need to add something, this would be a good start but they need to take the battle mechanics further. The system currently in place for battle was ok in 2002 but in 2012 we need something more engaging. Auto-attack and just stepping to the side or executing a ws makes battle more a battle to stay awake than to kill the mob. The current system is so simple and unimaginative it feels like it was designed for my grandma. Give me a more engaging battle system where you need to actually do something rather than tap a button every few seconds. Staggering like this would be great as long as it incorporated more than just, step to the right, tap 2, step to the left tap 1, stay in place tap 3. If you can literally fall asleep at the keyboard while fighting a mob your lvl your higher (which i have done) and wake up 30 minutes later and be standing there unharmed and worse...alive, you know your battle system needs tweaking.

Its about more than tapping keys every few seconds and in some cases having a healer stand a few feet away and cure. Its about dodging, executing attacks and feeling like you are actually in battle rather than at a keyboard watching tv, eating a pizza and hitting enter a couple times

Oh that helps a lot Esar!!! Thank you :). I still feel spells and WS's should proc equally but I also see Delsus' point :).