Job winrates per region

Yoship was on meteor playing some CC customs today, and during the stream they shared some slides showing what seems to be job specific winrates.

https://i.imgur.com/jJlTLFl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Wdwa7ir.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LQHVv7E.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WXxbi4p.jpg

From top to bottom the four slides are overall, JP, NA, EU.
Jobs are PLD WAR DRK GNB, WHM SCH AST SGE, MNK DRG NIN SAM RPR BRD MCH DNC BLM SMN RDM

Going by the title I assume it's just from the general pool of ranked games, and I believe the bottom text says data from mirror matches was excluded.

Top job is Scholar and worst is White Mage? How... :confused:

Win rate is meaningless without the Pick-Rate numbers to go along side it.

It not only lacks pick rate but also any kind of reference to skill brackets.

In Casual or low Ranked anything goes so their stats are often borderline meaningless.

What're pick rates?

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

What're pick rates?

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How often players actually play that job compared to its counterparts.
If a WHM has the lowest win rate but has an 80% chance to be chosen as the healer class, these statistics are skewed.

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Originally Posted by Sigma860

Top job is Scholar and worst is White Mage? How... :confused:

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There is a phenomenon in these kinds of things where jobs that are difficult, or regarded as weak are avoided in general. You end up with a disproportionate amount of that job's users being confident, skilled players which ends up boosting the winrate of that job. Conversely, newer players might flock to jobs like WHM or WAR that acquired a good reputation early on, and then proceed to tank the winrate for that job because they're still inexperienced players at the end of the day.

This doesn't necessarily mean SCH isn't good or WHM isn't weak, but it's a factor to consider.

There's a lot of nuance that needs to be considered when it comes to stats like this. Which is why as others have said, ideally you would have the playrate data for each job as well to get a better idea of what's going on.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

There is a phenomenon in these kinds of things where jobs that are difficult, or regarded as weak are avoided in general. You end up with a disproportionate amount of that job's users being confident, skilled players which ends up boosting the winrate of that job.

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I was thinking that exactly. Climbing on my RPR alt, I noticed SCH really isn’t popular with lower ranked players. They most likely don't understand it and/or don’t find it flashy enough. Meanwhile, we have a couple high skilled SCHs here on Primal doing very well for themselves.

Adding to this fact, I feel people are sleeping on SCH the most out of the job roster:

• Constant -10% damage debuff aoe DoT;
• Their DoT’s "fluff damage" wastes the enemy's mana and passively helps your teammates down focus-targets;
• Mummify puts a ton of pressure on targets being focused;
• Expedient can be active 1/3rd of the time. Your DoT’s -10% damage debuff to the enemy and the -10% damage taken buff to your team add up to a net -20% damage taken which is pretty damn saucy;
• Their LB is surprisingly strong when fights turn into mosh-pits around the crystal. (The LB’s startup should be shortened though).
• Learn the secret ninjutsu technique of buffing yourself with +10% dmg Adlos + Expedient and make your enemies wish their parents weren't anti-vax.

SCH does have a good kit that synergizes with itself when played correctly. Also, it’s probably the most chill job to play out there because your focus isn't about carrying, but supporting your team more than any other job.

Damn, discussing SCH just now has made me want to give it a spin when I get home later.

Edit: Played it, 8/10, would recommend.

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Originally Posted by Petite

I was thinking that exactly. Climbing on my alt RPR, I noticed SCH really isn’t popular with lower ranked players. They most likely don't understand it and/or don’t find it flashy enough. Meanwhile, we have a couple high skilled SCHs here on Primal doing very well for themselves.

But more importantly, I feel people are sleeping on SCH the most, hence why their win-rate is so surprising:

• Constant -10% damage debuff aoe DoT;
• Their DoT’s "fluff damage" wastes the enemy's mana and passively helps your teammates down focus-targets;
• Mummify puts a ton of pressure on targets being focused;
• Expedient can be up 1/3rd of the time. Your DoT’s -10% damage debuff to the enemy and the -10% damage taken buff to your team add up to a net -20% damage taken which is pretty damn saucy;
• Their LB is surprisingly strong when fights turn into mosh-pits around the crystal. (The LB’s startup should be shortened though).

SCH does have a good kit that synergizes with itself when played correctly. Also, it’s probably the most chill job to play out there because your focus isn't about carrying, but supporting your team more than any other job.

Damn, discussing SCH just now has made me want to give it a spin when I get home later.

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I mean, over on the healer forums:

SCH is worst PvP healer

And then you had a few people understood just how good it is for the reasons you state.

I disagree with the LB assessment. IMHO Seraph is one of the worst limit breaks because of the clunkiness of it. It's stationary and slow to activate. The seraph heals are frankly weak and it's main point is the status effect negation but the problem is it's only a single one and statuses get stacked way to easy in CC PvP.

We lack important info:

- Across was timeframe was the data collected?
- Which ranking tiers were included?
- How many times did each job win or lose to determine their pick-rate?

Until then, making correct assessments using these statistics is borderline useless and misleading.

https://i.imgur.com/tzr4MIM.png

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I mean, over on the healer forums:

SCH is worst PvP healer

And then you had a few people understood just how good it is for the reasons you state.

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Yup. A lot of forum dwellers are layman PvPers that come here to vent. They usually lack understanding and will often parrot popular opinions due to that selfsame reason.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I disagree with the LB assessment. IMHO Seraph is one of the worst limit breaks because of the clunkiness of it. It's stationary and slow to activate.

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As you said, Seraph definitely needs to activate faster. It would be nice if she could also be moved once like SGE's LB.

Honestly though, I forgot how fast SCH's LB charges which would change my opinion if it's more than 90s. So I'm sorry if I was talking out my ass on this one, but it does feel strong to me when when I watch Roy Razorwind's streams. I need more hands-on experience for sure.

This is interesting. So basically….even though not many play SCH and I’m a SCH main. It’s the win rate that make SE said, “nah, we don’t need to buff the class.” It’s just either ppl who play the class who are extremely good at it or the stigma made it where only the rare players play it and have the most wins.

I know ppl are saying now that SCH is a great healer class, but not adding in a fact that you also have to consider that there are more than 1 way to create a high win rate. The reason why the other healers have low win rate because they are the most used classes within the 2 seasons. Just because SCH has a high win rate, that doesn’t mean it’s the most used. It’s the LESS USED CLASS IN THE GAME. That can also contribute a high win rate.

…………….you know what. 4D chess play for the PvP team. What better way to get a legit win rate for SCH than to make the community believe that SCH is the top tier. To get them to play the job for next season and then….THEN we’ll get the actual win rate cause I know and they know. The majority of players play WHM, AST, and SGE. They can’t find find a reason if no one is going to play it as much as the other healer jobs.

You'd think with how much people cry about chainsaw, MCH would at least be above 50% winrate lol.

Not like balance matters as much as design as a whole, either way. I, as a monk player, willingly admit being able to pretty reliably hit someone for 48k on a min CD, with 3 sec CC and guard break, is honestly not great design, and there are a few other bursts in this game where I am not happy with where they are at. To some extent all jobs need something really busted about them that feel really powerful an amazing and unique, so I wouldn't want them to get rid of everything just because it makes people mad. It's a case-by-case kind of thing.

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Originally Posted by Llynethil

You'd think with how much people cry about chainsaw, MCH would at least be above 50% winrate lol.

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Excellent example of "Negativity Bias" at play.

They could just be making the numbers up to try and get players to think things are balanced when they are not.

..........Hmm, the more I think about it. The DPS % rate seems fair. 48-52% seems a balanced outcome as many ppl play those roles altogether. The Tank and Healer % seems out of balance. I say going above 53% is out of whack. Either it's being played the most, getting the most wins or playing the least, but getting just enough wins to not play them again only to manipulate the % rate. Again for fairness it's between 48-52% for the role of that field of Tank, Healer, DPS. So in the end PLD, somewhat DRK and definitely SCH will have to be adjusted to lower it's rate below 53% to achieve fairness.

Considering how bad the 0 rating Crystals are in this game, they might need to look at top 100 or something for Job balance.

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Originally Posted by ThaCa

Considering how bad the 0 rating Crystals are in this game, they might need to look at top 100 or something for Job balance.

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It would be idiotic to do any otherwise. No matter how strong you buff a job to "help lower tier players", there will always be people who struggle to rub two braincells together.

it just like everybody said is basicly flip coin lol

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

They could just be making the numbers up to try and get players to think things are balanced when they are not.

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I rather trust their data instead the 100 forum threads saying job x is bad and 100 threads saying its OP :p

…………….can’t be quick to put in the towel and say to yourself, “oh yoshi put up the % so it must be true.” I thought ppl were free thinkers here.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

…………….can’t be quick to put in the towel and say to yourself, “oh yoshi put up the % so it must be true.” I thought ppl were free thinkers here.

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Like all the percentages make complete sense when you look at Crystal matches/popularity of the jobs :p None of the numbers surprised me when I saw them. What would be the point of fabricating the numbers when they could have been 50% for every job in the game and people still would complain about all the jobs :p

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Originally Posted by Nanne

Like all the percentages make complete sense when you look at Crystal matches/popularity of the jobs :p None of the numbers surprised me when I saw them. What would be the point of fabricating the numbers when they could have been 50% for every job in the game and people still would complain about all the jobs :p

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It’s human nature my friend. No matter what you do, ppl will ALWAYS complain. Sometimes for good reasons, sometimes bad. It is what it is….

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Originally Posted by Myon88

There is a phenomenon in these kinds of things where jobs that are difficult, or regarded as weak are avoided in general. You end up with a disproportionate amount of that job's users being confident, skilled players which ends up boosting the winrate of that job. Conversely, newer players might flock to jobs like WHM or WAR that acquired a good reputation early on, and then proceed to tank the winrate for that job because they're still inexperienced players at the end of the day.

This doesn't necessarily mean SCH isn't good or WHM isn't weak, but it's a factor to consider.

There's a lot of nuance that needs to be considered when it comes to stats like this. Which is why as others have said, ideally you would have the playrate data for each job as well to get a better idea of what's going on.

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Thanks for the big-brain reply, mate. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle. :)

These are some hot takes on this post lol. I doubt these stats are fake, but they are incomplete and you could probably still make certain assumptions based off of it and things you read on this forum.

• The asterisk at the bottom of the slide says mirror matches were excluded, so the data doesn't account for true 50/50s

• Pickrates probably play a big role in this. For instance, WHM and SMN were known for some time as the meta pick for CC due to burst and crowd control, so most likely people played it more. This also means less skilled players are gonna choose it more and help with lowering the winrate.

• On the other hand, SCH is seen as weak by people due to lack of the burst and crowd control, yet can be a massive support boost to the team if they can capitalize on it. So it probably has a lower pickrate (especially in the lower ranks) but a higher winrate because people who do play it know how to best play it.

• These stats also aren't separated by rank, so as above, winrates might be influenced by lower tier players dragging the numbers down.

All in all, SE probably doesn't want us to actually evaluate these stats and instead thought this was a fun stat people might be interested in looking at.

This data has no meaning without knowing the pick rates. It means even less without knowing how matchmaking works given I get a lot of games where a team can have 3 healers or tanks on one side.

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Originally Posted by Nanne

Like all the percentages make complete sense when you look at Crystal matches/popularity of the jobs :p None of the numbers surprised me when I saw them. What would be the point of fabricating the numbers when they could have been 50% for every job in the game and people still would complain about all the jobs :p

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Always mistrust any statistics without hard data to back them up. Statistics are ridiculously easy to manipulate.

Bring on the Bard buffs! !! !

Not surprised. Wars are so squishy and orogeny/onslaught costing health sucks. But I'd like to see win rates for higher tiers used rather than just an overall win rate.

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Originally Posted by NyneSwordz

Not surprised. Wars are so squishy and orogeny/onslaught costing health sucks. But I'd like to see win rates for higher tiers used rather than just an overall win rate.

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A break down of pick rate and win rate per tier would be cool to see.

rarely picked classes can see a boost in win rate because no one knows how to play *against* them too. If you've played against 400 whm's and 2 sch's, you're gonna be better at killing whm's.