Glamour restrictions: a hinderance to creativity

This topic has been probably covered a million times. I just wanted to share a glamour I would love to make if we were allowed more creativity:

https://i.ibb.co/hBv2Pdm/freeglamour.jpg

What do you guys think? (I hope the picture works)

there is no lore reason why glamouring is ilvl restricted and job restricted, it is literally just an illusion spell

I feel the same way obviously. As long as we can equip it, we should be able to glamour it. Weapon should be the real focus of class identity (artifact armor excluded)

There is this one suit jacket locked to GSM that's been sitting in my glamour dresser waiting for the day they remove glamour restrictions.

Their basic reasoning behind the restrictions hasn't been valid since they've added all of this immersion breaking glamour gear, so why keep it around at all?

lichrally no reason for glam restrictions when numerous npcs wear outfits that dont fit their job.
Bajsaljen wears the alliance tank coat from Ghimlyt despite being a white mage, Hilda wears a gatherer coat despite being a machinist, etc etc.
Feel like as long as gear levels match (ie a lv90 tank can wear lv90 caster gear if both classes are 90) there shouldnt be an issue.
And of course they keep making godtier outfits for crafters/gatherers which WHY BOTHER if you cant wear any for more than 5 minutes worth of weekly delivery turn ins.
Remember when they made special lv1 glamours based on lv80 crafter/gatherer gear...only those specific classes could wear in the first place? What was the point?

I personally don't mind having restrictions. To achieve the look I want, if forces me to work around restrictions, do some research on where to obtain the items I need. It grants me some sense of acomplishment when I suceed in obtaining said stuff and completing the look I envisionned to satisfaction.

Having no restrictions would probably trivialize the whole glam thing for me, and be an net negative in my enjoyment of XIV.

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Originally Posted by XiRon

...Hilda wears a gatherer coat despite being a machinist...

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this is doubly frustrating to me, because it's not even a gatherer coat (some earlier gatherer pieces of gear were for 'All classes'), but hers is dragoon gear of all things. just stupid

There is likely a technical limitation on this, since the Sky Pirate pieces specifically had to be remade as replicas to be worn on every job/class.

Tanks running around in mage robes? X
Tanks running around in a bikini? ✓

Small indie company please be patient.

Will say I like the glam though! Countless possibilities would open up if SE would actually bother putting in the effort to fix the system instead of the band-aid solutions they come up with.

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Originally Posted by Corbeau_Roncenoire

What do you guys think? (I hope the picture works)

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I don't really agree that any restriction hinders creativity nor do I think that 'creativity' is the only measure of the glam system.

For instance, I think it valuable for different classes and different armor weights to generally look different - it keeps things interesting. In fact, a complete lack of restriction can ultimately lead to lots of sameness - you see this with certain unrestricted glams that then become ubiquitous.

So no, I don't think that the restrictions that exist are a hinderance, and I think that, in fact, some increase creativity by keeping everyone from making the same choices.

Let me borrow a quote from Prof. Mordin Solus:

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Originally Posted by Prof. Mordin Solus

All scientific advancement due to intellegence overcoming, compensating, for limitations. Can't carry a load, so invent wheel. Can't catch food, so invent spear. Limitations. No limitations, no advancement.

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I will always agree with these threads. Free the glam!

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Originally Posted by Tigerlilley

I will always agree with these threads. Free the glam!

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YUS! FREE THE GLAM! FREE THE GLAM!


Ironically enough, XIV's predecessor XI has free glam and it is SO nice. The only caveat is that in order to use a piece of gear as a glam item, you have to also be able to equip it normally on the job it's actually intended for (e.g. if I want to use a level 68 healer piece on my dragoon, my healer would need to be at least level 68). You also get 100 outfit slots, can create a glam anywhere (even using items that are stored elsewhere and not in inventory), apply a glam anywhere, and it doesn't take any crystals. It's such an easy system compared to what we have in XIV. :(

If that came to XIV, I know I personally would be spending SO much more time running all those random dungeons and raids in order to build up my options. I imagine a lot of others would be doing the same.

Restrictions breed creativity.
Allowing everything ends up with people just slapping together whatever that works on everything.

YoshiP will be along any minute to present his usual strawman argument that has nothing to do with the request:

"W-we can't have jobs sharing weapons."

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

I don't really agree that any restriction hinders creativity nor do I think that 'creativity' is the only measure of the glam system.

For instance, I think it valuable for different classes and different armor weights to generally look different - it keeps things interesting. In fact, a complete lack of restriction can ultimately lead to lots of sameness - you see this with certain unrestricted glams that then become ubiquitous.

So no, I don't think that the restrictions that exist are a hinderance, and I think that, in fact, some increase creativity by keeping everyone from making the same choices.

Let me borrow a quote from Prof. Mordin Solus:

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Shaddup and gimme my aiming pimp hat for red mage.

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/imag...-Male-Hyur.png

Not necessarily true. I do like some select items to remain class locked, but they should make more general items available over time, sure.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Restrictions breed creativity.
Allowing everything ends up with people just slapping together whatever that works on everything.

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I feel like the only thing that restrictions help to do is keep the dev's original vision for tanks/healers/dps roles more intact*. You will always have people who go for basics, and that's fine, but there is no way that having hundreds (and hundreds) more items to choose from would stifle creativity.

*This ship sailed ages ago with how much regular fashion (events/mogstation/crafted glams, etc) is now in game. And then we also have SE reusing outfits and simply recoloring them in order to give them to an entirely different job type.

ETA: Also, I'm having a hard time with this part of your comment specifically

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Allowing everything ends up with people just slapping together whatever that works on everything.

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Unless your character linked here is just a maxed out mule and you've fooled us all, you've used the same glamour basically since the beginning of time. However, that outfit is made up of non-class specific items, and there would be no way to tell what job or style you were actually going for. So it's a little hypocritical that you don't want others to have more options for "slapping together whatever works on everything" and using it all the time when that's exactly what you've done for years.

I always wanted viable armors for an armored mage look of sorts, and options were extremely limited always until the Archfiend armor from pvp, which you can wear on literally any class DoM/W/L/H from level 1 which was great. But I want more things like that. I'd love for the GSM 80 glam to be able to be worn on a MCH, for example.

I really like the FFXI-style suggestion mentioned above, where you can wear it on any class so long as you can equip it normally. It still encourages putting in the work to level up a class to the level needed even if you wanna wear it on an entirely different class in general.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

YUS! FREE THE GLAM! FREE THE GLAM!


Ironically enough, XIV's predecessor XI has free glam and it is SO nice. The only caveat is that in order to use a piece of gear as a glam item, you have to also be able to equip it normally on the job it's actually intended for (e.g. if I want to use a level 68 healer piece on my dragoon, my healer would need to be at least level 68). You also get 100 outfit slots, can create a glam anywhere (even using items that are stored elsewhere and not in inventory), apply a glam anywhere, and it doesn't take any crystals. It's such an easy system compared to what we have in XIV. :(

If that came to XIV, I know I personally would be spending SO much more time running all those random dungeons and raids in order to build up my options. I imagine a lot of others would be doing the same.

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Except in practice FFXI's glamour system (style lock) has a lot of it's own deficincies and issues:

For most of FFXI's run the game never had any glamour at all, and gear restrictions were tighter than here in FFXIV.
There still isn't and has never been any kind of gear dyeing system in FFXI like we have here in FFXIV.
Glamour in FFXI was only introduced a fair bit of time after it was introduced in FFXIV (and that was after the original FFXI development team left)
When style lock was first introduced in FFXI it was restricted to your Job (and as Job switching in FFXI is restricted to inside your Moghouse or using a Nomad Moogle in certain towns it's not something you could easily swap around).
Glamour restrictions were only lessened after a certain amount of time in a patch, because FFXI is in it's Indian Summer and has a skeleton staff development team running things, and really no longer take things like keeping the game balanced seriously anymore.
A fair number of enemies (particularly high level ones) will deactivate style lock completely (as in, completely delete your current glamour) with certain attacks that strip your gear (namely yagudo enemies in Campaign battles, and those giant red slugs found out in Pashow Marshlands in the past), which is extremely frustrating. Using the traditional gear swap trick with your weapon also deactivates glamour, not to mention changing Jobs, forcing you to reset your glamour manually again.

I mean, I'm all for improving the glamour system here in FFXIV, but it gets tiresome when I see players trying to make it out FFXI has the better system when it's not necessarily better at all and has it's own fair share of problems. The other grass is greener though I guess.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Except in practice FFXI's system has a lot of things to remember:

For most of FFXI's run it never had glamour at all, and gear restrictions were tighter than here in FFXIV.
There isn't and has never been any kind of gear dyeing system in FFXI.
Glamour in FFXI was only introduced a fair bit of time after it was introduced in FFXIV.
When it was introduced it was restricted to your Job.
Restrictions were only lessened after a number of years in a patch, because FFXI is in it's Indian Summer and has a skeleton staff development team only really keeping the lights on and not much else.
A fair number of enemies (particularly high level ones) will deactivate style lock completely (as in, completely delete your current glamour) with certain attacks that strip your gear (namely yagudo enemies in Campaign battles, and those giant red slugs found out in Pashow Marshlands in the past), which is extremely frustrating. Using the traditional gear swap trick with your weapon also deactivates glamour, not to mention changing Jobs, forcing you to reset your glamour manually again.

I mean, I'm all for improving the glamour system here in FFXIV, but it gets tiresome when I see players trying to make it out FFXI has the better system when it's not necessarily better at all and has it's own fair share of problems. The other grass is greener though I guess.

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Correct, it wasn't around forever, and it was a new functionality that was added into the game. And as you've pointed out, they've improved upon it over time and opened it up to be unrestricted. The only thing that XIV has over it, IMO, is that you can dye your clothes. So really, it doesn't matter that XI didn't always have it, or that it was more restrictive, point is that the 20 year old games has better options than their new shiny MMO.

I still play both games. I don't need the whole "grass is greener" dismissal.

At the very least, they could loosen up the glam restrictions from older expansions. It's a bit silly to have Lv. 50 gear that most are only going to use for glams to be so restrictive at this point.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

I don't really agree that any restriction hinders creativity nor do I think that 'creativity' is the only measure of the glam system.

For instance, I think it valuable for different classes and different armor weights to generally look different - it keeps things interesting. In fact, a complete lack of restriction can ultimately lead to lots of sameness - you see this with certain unrestricted glams that then become ubiquitous.

So no, I don't think that the restrictions that exist are a hinderance, and I think that, in fact, some increase creativity by keeping everyone from making the same choices.

Let me borrow a quote from Prof. Mordin Solus:

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This ^

It's funny to see talk of creativity, but what happens every time a new level 1 outfit drops? Everyone's wearing the same thing and generally not even using dye. :p

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

This ^

It's funny to see talk of creativity, but what happens every time a new level 1 outfit drops? Everyone's wearing the same thing and generally not even using dye. :p

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Sometimes you can be cheap, and not have to use dye in a lot of pieces though. :(

I've said it before and I'll say it again. In a game where you can save the world as contestants for a swimsuit pageant, butlers, french maids, reindeer, big bird, elephants, frogs, moogles, etc., any reasoning for glamour restrictions is null and void.

I'd also bet that if you removed the asinine restrictions, you'd see a massive reduction in complaints regarding the number of glamour plates, as well as a renewed interest in leveling jobs they might not have otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Restrictions breed creativity.
Allowing everything ends up with people just slapping together whatever that works on everything.

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bruh youve been wearing the same class unrestricted coat since 2.1, literally what creativity?

Dumbass archaic system.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

I've said it before and I'll say it again. In a game where you can save the world as contestants for a swimsuit pageant, butlers, french maids, reindeer, big bird, elephants, frogs, moogles, etc., any reasoning for glamour restrictions is null and void.

I'd also bet that if you removed the asinine restrictions, you'd see a massive reduction in complaints regarding the number of glamour plates, as well as a renewed interest in leveling jobs they might not have otherwise.

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Gunbreaker is my fave "sword wielding jrpg hero boi" class and both its AF gearsets are divine if I could use those coats when playing whm/sge (my biggest loves in 14 besides gnb) Id be ecstatic.
I'd also accept using the yorha-53 coat in its place on healers tanks got really gorgeous sets from each Nier raid.

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Originally Posted by XiRon

I'd also accept using the yorha-53 coat in its place on healers tanks got really gorgeous sets from each Nier raid.

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Of all the gear sets that should be available for everyone to glam, imo, it should be the Nier sets. No reason for any of that gear to be role restricted. They all look the same: black cloth and black leather.

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Originally Posted by Haruka_R

Of all the gear sets that should be available for everyone to glam, imo, it should be the Nier sets. No reason for any of that gear to be role restricted. They all look the same: black cloth and black leather.

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Someone else in thread mentioned the sky pirate sets and while those are generally very good sets...why are they the ONLY gearsets (actual, statbased gear) to get lv1 all class alternates?
I am praying they eventually do that for Neoishgardian sets but also make separates for the genders.
I hate most of the male sets but the ladies absolutely slayed with their Tank/Healer sets Id slap those on my boy immediately.
They should also make lv1 degendered versions of Yorha sets but since those are from an Alliance that aint happening.
Can you believe you still cant dye Ivalice sets? Ivalice?!

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Originally Posted by XiRon

Someone else in thread mentioned the sky pirate sets and while those are generally very good sets...why are they the ONLY gearsets (actual, statbased gear) to get lv1 all class alternates?
I am praying they eventually do that for Neoishgardian sets but also make separates for the genders.
I hate most of the male sets but the ladies absolutely slayed with their Tank/Healer sets Id slap those on my boy immediately.
They should also make lv1 degendered versions of Yorha sets but since those are from an Alliance that aint happening.
Can you believe you still cant dye Ivalice sets? Ivalice?!

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Pretty sure reasons are the same ol reasons Yoshida likes to give. Waaah to hard. Waaah no time. Waaah no help. And yes I can believe Ivalice sets still aren't dyable. :/

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Originally Posted by Haruka_R

Pretty sure reasons are the same ol reasons Yoshida likes to give. Waaah to hard. Waaah no time. Waaah no help. And yes I can believe Ivalice sets still aren't dyable. :/

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Not necessarily too hard, no time. Its more so that the team has a plethora of other things to worry about with making new content and managing priority on a lot of things. Believe me, I would kill for a free glam system or many other features but as someone who's researched on how game design works, shit is never that easy.

If they want to have certain jobs have a certain style, that's up to them. I don't see them going back to change things at any point because that requires going back over every single piece of gear.

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Originally Posted by Corbeau_Roncenoire

This topic has been probably covered a million times. I just wanted to share a glamour I would love to make if we were allowed more creativity:

https://i.ibb.co/hBv2Pdm/freeglamour.jpg

What do you guys think? (I hope the picture works)

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There is nothing here that speaks creativity. If you could wear these options on the job of your choice, I wouldn't even be able to tell you were using hacks, or restrictions were lifted on some gear. Nothing about you stands out from any other FFXIV player wanting the same things you do.

Now, let's take note of a player who will catch mine or your attention in the circle of confinement before a duty commences. That player has made themselves stand out, using the CURRENT options available to them. You might have even witnessed a comment/compliment or two in these scenarios. You also typically don't see those comments handed out to someone in a pig suit or bikini. Those comments usually go to those with artistic and creative qualities when choosing their glamours.

The current glamour system does not impede your ability to create awesome outfits and glamour plates. And while a case can be made that creative players would have even more to work with if there were less restrictions, the fact of the matter is that what separates them from players like yourself is they will work with what they have. They also tend to realize that less restrictions doesn't equal more options. That happens when they release new gear.

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

I feel restrictions are unnecessary. If people wish to wear only certain outfits, they can restrict themselves. Otherwise, let others wear whatever items they wish to wear.

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Exactly! ;)

I think it is appropriate that a character can only wear, or appear to wear, gear the character has earned the ability to wear.

However, I believe it reasonable for a character to wear gear of a class and level the character has achieved even when the character is not currently acting in that class. For example, my character who has achieved L90 in Sage, Dancer, Warrior, Summoner, and Reaper, when operating as a level 60 Bard, would be allowed to wear any combination of gear for those jobs that was level 60 or below.

This way, when you saw someone wearing, say, Sage-only gear, you'd know they could operate as a Sage of at least that level, even if they currently weren't at that moment.

The advantage to players is that they can maintain a particular style for a character regardless of what job the character was currently playing, and that style can be picked from among all the gear in the game, if they are willing to do the work.

The advantage to SE is that this provides a motive for players to level (and hopefully learn) other jobs; we all know how powerful a motive getting the right look can be.

The art direction in the game values theme much more than armor weight, so and so that it's actually uncommon for a set to actually have all 3 armor weights to match. ARR probably had that more common, but ever since HW, the overall silhouette caters to the theme of the place it came from.

Idk why people keep the "armor weight and silhouette should be preserved" argument when it objectively doesn't hold.

Also... It's beyond me why some people think that limitations = more creativity. It would be true in real life when you literally can think about countless options on, for example, how to make a cellphone stand yourself when you can't buy one. This is a game, where we get limitations of limitations (since we can't actually design our own stuff).

2B+Bodice—that is all I need.

Restrictions are just as important as freedom for creativity. It opens the possibility for "work arounds" and other creative solutions.

I get it, I do. Some of the "rules" surrounding glamor are a bit silly, especially given the huge amount of fashion-only equipment at this point. Honestly, the glam you posted is fairly similar to stuff we've seen.

The only things that should be restricted in my opinion are artefact sets since several of these have lore based implications. But outside of that, let the glams be free.

Only in ffxiv will people defend limitations and say they're actually good for the game. Mental institution.