More summons for summoner

I had an idea for adding more summons to our roster.

We get an additional 3 on the same timer and available at any time. They do a big AOE with damage and an additional effect (sometimes supportive). All the animations are already there. Perhaps they take a little time to cast. We don't need gemshine attacks, but maybe we get a personal buff to damage.

Fenrir - Ice damage with paralysis or heavy

Leviathan - Water damage with dropsy

Susano - Lightning damage with vuln

Moogle - light damage and party esuna

I can't say that I support adding in summons like Susano or Moogle until the classics like Shiva/Leviathan/Ramuh that we are still missing get added, but abilities with some potential crowd control/flavor are always welcome.

We honestly should have Shiva, Leviathan and Ramuh right now. There is no reason why they shouldn’t be available now after Phoenix. I’m very disappointed we didn’t get them. We have to wait all the way until 7.0 just to get a trait that will add them. Very sad. We also need Alexander or Diablos. It’s been way to long.

Definitely. And before the lore protectors march in to argue against this, at this point the job is struggling so bad that it would be preferable to rip the lore to shreds in order to accommodate more iconic summons than to continue with these absurd limitations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

I had an idea for adding more summons to our roster.

We get an additional 3 on the same timer and available at any time. They do a big AOE with damage and an additional effect (sometimes supportive). All the animations are already there. Perhaps they take a little time to cast. We don't need gemshine attacks, but maybe we get a personal buff to damage.

Fenrir - Ice damage with paralysis or heavy

Leviathan - Water damage with dropsy

Susano - Lightning damage with vuln

Moogle - light damage and party esuna

---

Ok, four things:

1. Fenrir was not a Primal, thus we can't create an Egi/Trance/etc. out of it.
2. Shiva would've been the more logical choice for ice-aspected damage.
3. Since paralysis is mostly associated with lightning, shouldn't it be tied to Ramuh instead?
4. Status ailments such as paralysis or heavy are completely useless against bosses.

Anyways, and aside from these "questionable" choices, I do wholeheartedly agree that we're way, waaaaay overdue for more summon diversity (even if it's just cosmetic/aesthetic).

Like hell, it's been nearly SEVEN (EIGHT?) YEARS already.
Yoshida-san, I beg you: do something with the Egi glamour system.

The sooner, the better (as in, 6.x sooner).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exodus-E

Ok, four things:

1. Fenrir was not a Primal, thus we can't create an Egi/Trance/etc. out of it.
2. Shiva would've been the more logical choice for ice-aspected damage.
3. Since paralysis is mostly associated with lightning, shouldn't it be tied to Ramuh instead?
4. Status ailments such as paralysis or heavy are completely useless against bosses.

Anyways, and aside from these "questionable" choices, I do wholeheartedly agree that we're way, waaaaay overdue for more summon diversity (even if it's just cosmetic/aesthetic).

Like hell, it's been nearly SEVEN (EIGHT?) YEARS already.
Yoshida-san, I beg you: do something with the Egi glamour system.

The sooner, the better (as in, 6.x sooner).

---

So, it's a rough idea to get a conversation going. We hear about how incomplete SMN feels and I feel like this would help.

Part of the inspiration behind the choices was mainly those we see being used in that one Endwalker scene.

Fenrir: I chose this because of lore reasons for Shiva likely being adhered to. I guess it would be more accurate to say Hrodvitnir, which was summoned in Zadnor. My mind just goes to Fenrir for the model similarity and use in other FFs.

Ramuh: I would actually love to see him used and they did tease it in the story, but I've heard that wouldn't happen, so I thought Susano might be an alternative.

Moogle: You know you wanna see that spotlight entrance. ;)

Ravana was another thought. I wasn't sure what to go with for an effect as we already have one attack buff.

I understand the ailments are useless against bosses. It would still be nice to have something extra for dungeon runs.

In a perfect Fantasy for the summoner job, in my head, it would get water, ice and thunder gemstones for the Phoenix phase, and then from now on, Square Enix would implement a customization system where you can glamour primals from their respective elements on those gemstones, this way they could focus on different aspects of the summoner without creating convoluted ways to keep introducing new summons every expansion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

I had an idea for adding more summons to our roster.

We get an additional 3 on the same timer and available at any time. They do a big AOE with damage and an additional effect (sometimes supportive). All the animations are already there. Perhaps they take a little time to cast. We don't need gemshine attacks, but maybe we get a personal buff to damage.

Fenrir - Ice damage with paralysis or heavy

Leviathan - Water damage with dropsy

Susano - Lightning damage with vuln

Moogle - light damage and party esuna

---

so basicly turning summoner into a more blumage class

they should just rework aetherflow into primal theme OGCD

We kinda had some of these things back in the early days. Garuda could put magic vulnerability on an enemy, and Ifrit had a counter attack shield for the party. Plus SMN themselves had a lot of class/role actions to pull from. I don't really see them gaining much utility again.

Summoner to me was a mistake to even be used as a FFXIV job, because it created this impossible expectation that the job would actually summon ALL of the summon creatures from the whole series of Final Fantasy games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

Summoner to me was a mistake to even be used as a FFXIV job, because it created this impossible expectation that the job would actually summon ALL of the summon creatures from the whole series of Final Fantasy games.

---

Hm...not really?

Even back in FF11, the SMN job couldn't summon every single avatar there was (missing Phoenix and Bahamut). And it had a wider selection to choose from anyways.
Hell, there were even some creatures in FF11 that used to be summons in past games, but weren't introduced/implemented as avatars (see: Bismarck). Thus, couldn't be summoned.
Which is similar to what happened with FF14 as well (see: Kujata, Siren, Diabolos, etc.).

Also, expecting a mainline FF game to feature every single summon from previous entries is just insane.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

Summoner to me was a mistake to even be used as a FFXIV job, because it created this impossible expectation that the job would actually summon ALL of the summon creatures from the whole series of Final Fantasy games.

---

No but the absolute minimum expectation would’ve been being able to summon the classics instead of a trio of floating chibi forms for the past decade.

Doesnt matter how many summons the force into the rotation, until you're doing more than pressing one button 90% of the time it wont be fun to play

For me id like the following:

Leviathan, Ramuh

Ravana, Goddess, Zurvan, Sephirot, thordan

Susano, Tsukiyomi, Shinryu

Lightwardens mainly innocence

Anima, Magus

Zodiark

the ones i dont want are

Moogle (I hate them in this game)
Shiva - I kinda feel that without iceheart, it wouldnt really be shiva and therefore im a bit mixed on it as a summon
Bismark - Its a big whale and i honestly dont see what it would add that others wouldn't
Four lords - they weren't summons so cant really be added
Hydealyn - Unlike zodiark, Hydealyn was Venat and she had soul death. So im not sure if it would be wierd to summon her. Its not a reason Not to include her though,
Alexander - As much as a love the big dude, i just dont see how it could work as a summon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stellahawke

so basicly turning summoner into a more blumage class

---

Yeah, the primal attacks are where I got the idea for the shared timers. I thought about new gems for phoenix phase, but people complain that it's too "on rails" as it is. Presenting another layer of choice felt like a good way to go. I'm also a fan of the FFXI summoner and how those functioned. Summon > execute attack / buff > swap out. Since that's the direction they went for 6.0, I was hoping they could now add to that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anvaire

For me id like the following:

Leviathan, Ramuh

Ravana, Goddess, Zurvan, Sephirot, thordan

Susano, Tsukiyomi, Shinryu

Lightwardens mainly innocence

Anima, Magus

Zodiark

the ones i dont want are

Moogle (I hate them in this game)
Shiva - I kinda feel that without iceheart, it wouldnt really be shiva and therefore im a bit mixed on it as a summon
Bismark - Its a big whale and i honestly dont see what it would add that others wouldn't
Four lords - they weren't summons so cant really be added
Hydealyn - Unlike zodiark, Hydealyn was Venat and she had soul death. So im not sure if it would be wierd to summon her. Its not a reason Not to include her though,
Alexander - As much as a love the big dude, i just dont see how it could work as a summon.

---

I think anything that required a living vessel is likely to be off-limits. Lightwardens aren't even proper primals. If anything, they're closer to the blasphemies.

I made my choices based on what would be easier for them to implement. The assets and animations exist for them to just pop in and out, like our initial 3.

I'd legit delete my SMN if I it had a moogle summon. FFIX is the only main line title where I find them okay. XIV's moogles are the absolute worst, the little flying rats. haha

That being said, I wish we had more summons. :(

Oh boy, let's address these point by point:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anvaire

Lightwardens mainly innocence

---

The Lightwardens (including Innocence) were sin eaters, not primals.
Thus, they're completely incompatible with the Allagan discipline, which is primal-focused.

Besides, "summoning" sin eaters would be similar to "summoning" voidsent (completely different skill-set).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anvaire

Moogle (I hate them in this game)

---

Good King Moggle Mog XII was a primal.
So aside from personal preference (thus, subjective), he could have an Egi made out of.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anvaire

Shiva - I kinda feel that without Ysayle/Iceheart, it wouldn't really be Shiva and therefore I'm a bit mixed on it as a summon

---

The same argument could be made about Phoenix and Louisoix, yet here we are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anvaire

Bismarck - Its a big whale and i honestly dont see what it would add that others wouldn't

---

As opposed to Ravana (being Fire + Earth), you mean?
Having a Wind + Water summon could be interesting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anvaire

Four lords - they weren't summons so cant really be added

---

Well duh.
The Four Lords were powerful auspices, not primals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anvaire

Hydaelyn - Unlike zodiark, Hydealyn was Venat and she had soul death. So im not sure if it would be wierd to summon her. Its not a reason Not to include her though,

---

Zodiark was Elidibus before being separated from Him, so that's moot.
Also, it's a similar argument to us being able to use Phoenix as a Trance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anvaire

Alexander - As much as a love the big dude, i just dont see how it could work as a summon.

---

Alexander could definitely work as a Trance -> Demi-summon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

I think anything that required a living vessel is likely to be off-limits.

---

Counterpoint: Firebird Trance -> Demi-Phoenix.
Remember that Allagan Summoners don't summon actual primals (like, at all), but rather, either create lesser constructs based on them, or use their (left-over) essences directly unto themselves.

If Summoner felt more like an actual caster I'd be all for it.

I really do feel like the Summoner should have learned two signature spells from each primal, and gained an OGCD ability for each primal that summoned a copy of them that did big damage that then replaces Carbuncle as your current summon and it follows you around granting you access to the aforementioned 2 signature spells, one of which is an AOE and the other a Single target. This would replace say your Arcanist Single and AOE target spells, all the additional freed-up buttons would be other OGCD that calls a different primal. So now you're asking then what's the point of using other primals? Duration, once you call a primal it has a 60-second duration. in that 60-second window, you can use its OGCD big damage attack every 25 seconds. It's recast time (to summon that primal) however would be like 2 minutes. What'd be different about each primals attack and your signature spells? I think it'd be fun if the area and shapes of the attacks varied from primal to primal to add a level of complexity to the job. Like maybe Shiva fires 3 ice spikes in a 3 way forward cone, and your AOE spell self-centered AOE ice quake? whereas Ifrit is an ever-expanding donut of fire AOE, and your AOE becomes a Fire breath weapon cone, and creative shapes/mechanics for each primal going forward.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exodus-E

Oh boy, let's address these point by point:


The Lightwardens (including Innocence) were sin eaters, not primals.
Thus, they're completely incompatible with the Allagan discipline, which is primal-focused.

Besides, "summoning" sin eaters would be similar to "summoning" voidsent (completely different skill-set).


Good King Moggle Mog XII was a primal.
So aside from personal preference (thus, subjective), he could have an Egi made out of.


The same argument could be made about Phoenix and Louisoix, yet here we are.


As opposed to Ravana (being Fire + Earth), you mean?
Having a Wind + Water summon could be interesting.


Well duh.
The Four Lords were powerful auspices, not primals.


Zodiark was Elidibus before being separated from Him, so that's moot.
Also, it's a similar argument to us being able to use Phoenix as a Trance.


Alexander could definitely work as a Trance -> Demi-summon.


Counterpoint: Firebird Trance -> Demi-Phoenix.
Remember that Allagan Summoners don't summon actual primals (like, at all), but rather, either create lesser constructs based on them, or use their (left-over) essences directly unto themselves.

---

All a primal is, is a construct of aether, the light wardens, Sin Eaters are a corrupted mass of living aether with a polarity aligned too far with light (static) there is no convention to say that they cannot be. Based on the lore, the only requirement is to be "bathed" in the aether of the primal. by this logic the WOL should be able to resummon the Lightwardens.

Blasphemies on the other hand are different, though im not sure if it is ever stated why, only that the soul and perhaps the lving aether is completely estinguished. This is why i didnt add them to my original list.

- I think you need to learn not to act like a child and be rude. the "well duh" statement was not neccesary. Grow up.

While it is true elidibus was part of zodiark, he was separated but left behind the shell of the summon and the aether it was comprised of, which returned to the aetherial sea once he was defeated. Hydealyn conversely, burned through her aether, and her soul and had soul death after her defeat. If any aether was left after the events of MSQ it is unclear but likely it would have been completely dispersed. (Bahamut and Firebird summons work by drawing the aether from the envirnment to power their summons, not sure if this is possible with hydealyn hence why she was not included.

The reason i say Alexander wouldnt work as a summon, is that i dont see how any implementation would actually work with the abilities he had. Alexander used time and while we could get him to do some holy blasts that would just feel like a reskinned akhn morn. They could make his affects speed up or slow down enemy / player, but as a full stop would be out of the question, i honestly cant see it being implemented well. It is of course a "personal opinion" but here we are.

Also IMO the only reason we have firebird trance at all is that its aethr was scattered all over Eorzea after it defeated Bahamut, everyone there was affected by it. In that sense, like bahamut, it is a rather, unique occurence.