Single Target powerful attack for each job (just a idea)

I was poking around in the Japanese forums, and one was talking about getting Samurai to have the most powerful attack to surpass all other job abilities.

How about I expand on that I wonder? Wouldn't it be kind of nice to give all Jobs something like that? It could only maybe be used once in a while, and act like our mini-LBs.

So for bosses you would need to use it appropriately and not waste it because the cooldown will be very long, and Multi-attack heavy hitter moves for Ranged types would be great for those tank pulls getting through areas.

Shaving off percentage I guess it would depend on the content.

Pretty sure almost every job already has this.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Pretty sure almost every job already has this.

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If you mean the lvl 90 skills, not that kind.

I mean moves that really are super damaging, and can only use it like once or twice per run in dungeons because of a very long cooldown or gets locked out of its use for that run after its used.

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

If you mean the lvl 90 skills, not that kind.

I mean moves that really are super damaging, and can only use it like once or twice per run in dungeons.

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So... the LB?

I just am not really seeing how this would be game changing or an improvement really, other than just another "big hit does big damage, save for buffs"

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

So... the LB?

I just am not really seeing how this would be game changing or an improvement really, other than just another "big hit does big damage, save for buffs"

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Would not say as powerful as a LB, but close to it.

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Would not say as powerful as a LB, but close to it.

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Wouldn't that power creep everything by a lot?

I mean it doesn't really need explaining that even end game dungeon bosses would basically lose like a forth of their health bar from this assuming all 4 party members pop it. Or in trials, that'd be 8 people using it, you could probably get up to half the hp bar off that alone.

I didn't think about it that way, oh well it was just a idea.

Not well thought out idea I guess.

Its a TBN paradox mate if they do that then everything will revolve around it and the class will never break free from it

setsugekka was once that ability your thinking in StB but sadly they didn't seem to think of anything that would break from it now you have a sam that has 2 setsugekkas
and mekiyo sprints you to get another any other cast was just for aoe or a dot for 1min so not used that much
Now we have 2 more but their AOE form, you see they can break from it

If the game had bigger buff windows and slower cooldowns and more stacking buffs you could have something that powerful on a fairly reasonable cooldown, since it would require collapsing resources to get good mileage out of it. But since the game is on a tight script anything you add is just one more button to push on a timer, and that's getting less interesting over time.

I'll just take an ability to phase and not take any dmg while inside my ley lines.

Basically, LB from PvP jobs, where we get our own unique LB bar rather than just a party bar I assume.
Tbf, it could go on everyone's gauge as a separate LB gauge, and this gauge could be charged using AST's cards... giving some spice and variety there... so I can see how it can be fun with it.

It can consolidate and help remove /adjust skills to make sure it's not overpowered or unbalanced. I don't know if that can be implemented so soon though since it would affect every class.

How about just no? We already have problems with potency creep, to the point where Samurai now has to deal with atrocious auto crits because Oga Namikiri/Kaeshi Namikiri had too much crit variance for a 2 minute cooldown.

I don't even want to think about the guaranteed dumpster fire when you have an ability that you can only use once per fight and you don't get the maximum damage possible out of it.

I would love to use the PVP LB in PVE.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

How about just no? We already have problems with potency creep, to the point where Samurai now has to deal with atrocious auto crits because Oga Namikiri/Kaeshi Namikiri had too much crit variance for a 2 minute cooldown.

I don't even want to think about the guaranteed dumpster fire when you have an ability that you can only use once per fight and you don't get the maximum damage possible out of it.

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Not that I am for this idea (I am definitely not) but you can solve the issue with maximum buff window issue by making the attack not be affected by buffs just like a group limit break.

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Originally Posted by Superskull85

Not that I am for this idea (I am definitely not) but you can solve the issue with maximum buff window issue by making the attack not be affected by buffs just like a group limit break.

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You could but at that point it would basically just be another LB, so what would be the point of adding these in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

How about just no? We already have problems with potency creep, to the point where Samurai now has to deal with atrocious auto crits because Oga Namikiri/Kaeshi Namikiri had too much crit variance for a 2 minute cooldown.

I don't even want to think about the guaranteed dumpster fire when you have an ability that you can only use once per fight and you don't get the maximum damage possible out of it.

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It wasn't Ogi Namikiri that made them change it, it was Midare Setsugekka. The reasoning they gave was crits were causing a massive damage fluctuation. So, the question is, why? Looking at the potency of Midare Setsugekka (before the chance) you can see it has a much higher potency than every other weaponskill Samurai had that was also in frequent use (ie. their GCD combos). Infact, I worked it out to be ~2.5 times stronger. This alone is not the issue however, the issue comes from how frequently the attack is used, which was ~3 times a minute. With an attack being so much stronger than the average AND being used frequently, it is going to be the leading cause of damage variation based on whether someone got lucky with a crit/DH or not.

If the issue is with the crits, if you force the attack to always crit, you can take that damage variance out, keep it high powered and only have the much weaker DH get involved with the damage fluctuations. The reason Ogi Namikiri was changed is likely not because it was a factor in the massive crit variance, it was likely a by product of making Midare auto crit. Having the strongest skill sometimes not do more damage than the second strongest, auto crit, probably just felt bad, so they made it also auto crit so that it would consistently be stronger.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

It wasn't Ogi Namikiri that made them change it, it was Midare Setsugekka. The reasoning they gave was crits were causing a massive damage fluctuation. So, the question is, why? Looking at the potency of Midare Setsugekka (before the chance) you can see it has a much higher potency than every other weaponskill Samurai had that was also in frequent use (ie. their GCD combos). Infact, I worked it out to be ~2.5 times stronger. This alone is not the issue however, the issue comes from how frequently the attack is used, which was ~3 times a minute. With an attack being so much stronger than the average AND being used frequently, it is going to be the leading cause of damage variation based on whether someone got lucky with a crit/DH or not.

If the issue is with the crits, if you force the attack to always crit, you can take that damage variance out, keep it high powered and only have the much weaker DH get involved with the damage fluctuations. The reason Ogi Namikiri was changed is likely not because it was a factor in the massive crit variance, it was likely a by product of making Midare auto crit. Having the strongest skill sometimes not do more damage than the second strongest, auto crit, probably just felt bad, so they made it also auto crit so that it would consistently be stronger.

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Well, Namakiri just replaced Midare with a longer CD between uses. Midare got nerfed in 6.0 when they added it.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

So... the LB?

I just am not really seeing how this would be game changing or an improvement really, other than just another "big hit does big damage, save for buffs"

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Would not say as powerful as a LB, but close to it.

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So... LB 1 or 2?

FFXI had this. They were called 1 hour abilities (originally 2 hours, but they got buffed.)

Some were better than others. Most DPS classes were really strong, but then there was NIN, who got Self Destruct. Bard (a support class in XI) had the potency of their songs double. Red mage got 30 seconds of nonstop casting. If I remember right, black mage got no MP spells. That sort of thing.

Most of them made their way into XIV in some form or another, for example XI's paladin got 30 seconds of pure invulnerability with Invincible, whereas XIV's paladin has Hallowed Ground.

https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/One_Hour_Ability

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Originally Posted by Catwho

FFXI had this. They were called 1 hour abilities (originally 2 hours, but they got buffed.)

Some were better than others. Most DPS classes were really strong, but then there was NIN, who got Self Destruct. Bard (a support class in XI) had the potency of their songs double. Red mage got 30 seconds of nonstop casting. If I remember right, black mage got no MP spells. That sort of thing.

Most of them made their way into XIV in some form or another, for example XI's paladin got 30 seconds of pure invulnerability with Invincible, whereas XIV's paladin has Hallowed Ground.

https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/One_Hour_Ability

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FFXI's paladin's invulnerability was physical damage only. *Thousand yard trauma stare*

I’m gonna echo the sentiments that it would either be something they balance around and become just another button to push or it would be completely broken to the point where if it has any noticeable impact in 8 man content it would be absurdly broken in dungeons or open world content.

But there is somewhere that this idea could work. Blue Mage. Powerful enough to one shot a dungeon boss? That’s fine, it’s blue Mage they can basically solo dungeons synced anyway. As powerful as an LB? Great, BLU doesn’t have one of those and could really use something like that for certain dps checks in higher level trials.

They could even have multiple spells like this with different effects or mimicry requirements, maybe even something similar to FFXI’s unbridled learning where they had extremely powerful spells that were locked behind an ability with a long recast.

Semi-aside but one thing SE might consider for a job or certain type of powerful skill is that it ignores buffs, or depending on how a specific job was built perhaps just other people's. In this way you have skills that don't get tossed into the 'must be cast in x window'. Anti-window skills lol. Give it a charge for good measure ;).

Can consider this on some pre-existing skills and specific jobs too, if you wanted people to avoid having to worry about the window for specific skills.

They did give us powerful moves...just in pvp only. God i wish i can use the pvp lb for sam on a boss. Make the potency like 50,000 but have certain rules to using it including being able to only use it once. Something like it can only be used after a certain amount of wipes after a given amount of time has passed in each attempt and it has a 10 second cast time. Stuff like that but for each dps job specifically.