When do we have normal balance in CC?

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07-08-2022, 12:38 AM
Holmesy

When do we have normal balance in CC?
It's awful, you win\lose 98% of games before they are started, coz red team has 2 melees and you have 1 (for example).
Pls, make normal balance like The Fiest
- tank to tank
- melee to melee
- prdd to prdd
- mRdd to mRdd
I just don't understand how the CC in this state can be released in the 2nd season. I really hoped the first season would be enough to fix that.
07-08-2022, 12:49 AM
Ravenwatch

The issue with this is that the queues are already becoming kind of long and this would make them even longer.

As far as I know, the game does try to match role to role and even class to class where it can, but even then it doesn't really matter. I've had games with 5 dps(3 ranged, 2 melee) vs balanced tank/healer compositions and the determining factor at the end of the day is catching people with damage in a control effect and adapting to both teams behaviors with other abilities.
07-08-2022, 01:01 AM
Holmesy

1) I would rather wait than lose the game before the gates open
2) Perhaps the problem of queues is that there is no such balance?
07-08-2022, 01:02 AM
ThaCa

Biggest issue is the role valuation. Healers and Tanks should count for same slot if there's only 1 each in game so they are in different teams.

M. and P. Ranged should count the sameway to ensure both team would have as even melee/ranged split as possible.
07-08-2022, 02:00 AM
Osmond

From what I've learned, it's just player-based RNG........ I would think that the meta jobs would have a high chance of winning, but there's too many factors that doesn't seem to be the case. It's balanced......if the player/s knows what target they want to attack and burst them down. It should just be.........was thinking of competing against ppl who are just in the same rank, nothing more, but I don't even think that will matter.
07-08-2022, 02:13 AM
Gserpent
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmesy

It's awful, you win\lose 98% of games before they are started, coz red team has 2 melees and you have 1 (for example).
Pls, make normal balance like The Fiest
tank to tank

melee to melee

prdd to prdd

mRdd to mRdd

I just don't understand how the CC in this state can be released in the 2nd season. I really hoped the first season would be enough to fix that.
CC is fine. You don't need melee at all to win. You don't even need DPS. If you lose, it's because you were outplayed by your opponents.
07-08-2022, 02:23 AM
Holmesy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gserpent

CC is fine. You don't need melee at all to win. You don't even need DPS. If you lose, it's because you were outplayed by your opponents.

I envy you if you still think so. You probably didn't have games where you simply can't oppose anything to the other team. Because you just don't have enough damage/hp/control to fight back (especially control).
07-08-2022, 02:34 AM
Gserpent

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holmesy

I envy you if you still think so. You probably didn't have games where you simply can't oppose anything to the other team. Because you just don't have enough damage/hp/control to fight back (especially control).

Dude, I've had games where we were 4 healers plus a tank, and I've had games where I was the healer with 4 tanks. I won both types of games and it wasn't even close. I've also had games where we had a "normal" 1/1/3 or 2/1/2 composition against 5 DPS and we got absolutely obliterated.

Roles don't matter. Skill does. Some compositions are going to need certain skills or playstyles out of your team, and it's entirely likely that your team will not be able to deliver on that, especially in low skill games. But that doesn't mean we need role queuing, it just means people need to improve their play and understand the game better.
07-08-2022, 03:59 AM
Holmesy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gserpent

Dude, I've had games where we were 4 healers plus a tank, and I've had games where I was the healer with 4 tanks. I won both types of games and it wasn't even close. I've also had games where we had a "normal" 1/1/3 or 2/1/2 composition against 5 DPS and we got absolutely obliterated.

Roles don't matter. Skill does. Some compositions are going to need certain skills or playstyles out of your team, and it's entirely likely that your team will not be able to deliver on that, especially in low skill games. But that doesn't mean we need role queuing, it just means people need to improve their play and understand the game better.

What "skill" do you need on bard (for example) if you don't have any dmg vs melee? You do not have hp, and you are only dps here? Team skill? Good luck then, team skill will be more revealing with normal team balance.
07-08-2022, 04:18 AM
Risvertasashi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gserpent

Dude, I've had games where we were 4 healers plus a tank, and I've had games where I was the healer with 4 tanks. I won both types of games and it wasn't even close. I've also had games where we had a "normal" 1/1/3 or 2/1/2 composition against 5 DPS and we got absolutely obliterated.

Roles don't matter. Skill does. Some compositions are going to need certain skills or playstyles out of your team, and it's entirely likely that your team will not be able to deliver on that, especially in low skill games. But that doesn't mean we need role queuing, it just means people need to improve their play and understand the game better.

Yeah. It seems it's going to take people a long time to shed the mindset of "We need to have a traditional composition/same roles as the other team/etc"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holmesy

What "skill" do you need on bard (for example) if you don't have any dmg vs melee? You do not have hp, and you are only dps here? Team skill? Good luck then, team skill will be more revealing with normal team balance.

I mean... would perfectly-mirrored teams be the most balanced possible? Sure. But we had that (or something very close anyways).

There's a reason we don't have it anymore.

Perhaps think carefully why the devs chose to move away from that model, and why it's made pvp so much more popular...
07-08-2022, 04:34 AM
Osmond

The model is still there, haven't truly gotten away from it, it's just not as obvious or important as it used to be. Mirror matches can proc, but it'll just fall back on skill, but then it's ehh. Just take down 1-2 and you have the advantage so it's just a numbers game with a chance of a comeback if you guess correctly because you can't truly communicate with other players.......other than 3rd party apps....that's pointless to have due to random players comp via solo que.
07-08-2022, 04:36 AM
Holmesy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Perhaps think carefully why the devs chose to move away from that model, and why it's made pvp so much more popular...

Another model, Another goal, simplier jobs, bigger problems.
Seems like this so far.

I mean I can't rly understand you, coz if skill is equal then classes win (not even jobs), right?
07-08-2022, 04:37 AM
Gserpent

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holmesy

What "skill" do you need on bard (for example) if you don't have any dmg vs melee? You do not have hp, and you are only dps here? Team skill? Good luck then, team skill will be more revealing with normal team balance.

Bard has plenty of damage vs melee.
07-08-2022, 05:46 AM
Petite

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holmesy

You probably didn't have games where you simply can't oppose anything to the other team.

Everyone deals with the same matchmaking, job roster, maps, map hazards, respawn timers, overtime rules etc. Everyone has been trounced so hard they started questionning their own skills, just like everyone has won matches effortlessly. That's the nature of Solo queue team modes.

You should accept this fact until ranked Light Party queuing gets added or move on.
07-08-2022, 06:12 AM
Menriq

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gserpent

Bard has plenty of damage vs melee.

BRD used to be able to hold their own with mDPS, but with the 6.18 changes, mDPS is able to survive and keep close to the BRD, thus nullifying the damage BRD does. AFAIK, it's the only job that has a requirement to stay at ranged to be do max damage on their main DPS skill.
07-08-2022, 06:24 AM
Xel

CC isn't Feast, using the argument that leveling the playing field would increase play times is nothing but a pathetic strawman argument.

The fact is they could easily fix issues, but since CC has 100000's players more than Feast ever did they won't, because why put in effort, when the numbers prove you don't need to?
07-08-2022, 06:39 AM
Holmesy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petite

Everyone deals with the same matchmaking, job roster, maps, map hazards, respawn timers, overtime rules etc. Everyone has been trounced so hard they started questionning their own skills, just like everyone has won matches effortlessly. That's the nature of Solo queue team modes.

You should accept this fact until ranked Light Party queuing gets added or move on.

I don't want Light party, I just want to play normal and with out 30 sec games, where there is no skill, coz your classes do everything for you.
07-08-2022, 07:12 AM
Petite

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holmesy

I don't want Light party, I just want to play normal and with out 30 sec games, where there is no skill, coz your classes do everything for you.

This is solo queue. Start praying for snow in Fiji.
07-08-2022, 08:37 AM
Mistress_Irika

Restrict the queues for balance while demoting is nonexistent, and I'll guarantee you that the queues will die from the bottom up.
07-08-2022, 09:13 AM
Risvertasashi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holmesy

Another model, Another goal, simplier jobs, bigger problems.
Seems like this so far.

I mean I can't rly understand you, coz if skill is equal then classes win (not even jobs), right?

So.

We go back to old feast model, then? Queues die because no one wants to play healers? And maybe you take out healers and then what, queues die because no tanks?

So you take out healers and tanks and you have all DPS matches and... ah, wait, that sounds an awful lot like what we have now.
07-08-2022, 09:15 AM
Holmesy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

So.

We go back to old feast model, then? Queues die because no one wants to play healers? And maybe you take out healers and then what, queues die because no tanks?

So you take out healers and tanks and you have all DPS matches and... ah, wait, that sounds an awful lot like what we have now.

I mean that 5 dd vs 5 dd is okey match, just balance melee to melee, etc. and yeah, it's better.
07-09-2022, 08:12 AM
Gserpent

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menriq

BRD used to be able to hold their own with mDPS, but with the 6.18 changes, mDPS is able to survive and keep close to the BRD, thus nullifying the damage BRD does. AFAIK, it's the only job that has a requirement to stay at ranged to be do max damage on their main DPS skill.

BRD would still lose handily to every melee class even if they didn't have damage fall-off because BRD's personal DPS is pretty low. They have okay burst but their sustained isn't great, and they don't have any personal defense skill beyond Repelling Shot and Paean. Compare this to melee generally doing more DPS (and many classes also having more burst DPS) and having strong defensive tools and it's not really a fair contest.

BRD is a buff-centric class, which means their personal output is lower than normal. It's the same story for SCH.