Dragoon is next

I sure can't wait for it to become just as boring and lifeless to play as the other melee :)

something something streamlining something something synergy

I wonder what even gave them the idea that "extensive" adjustments are needed. Is DRG somehow unpopular over on the JP DC?

Almost all DRGs I know (including myself) think the job is doing just fine, and needs some minor QoL fixes at most.

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Originally Posted by Teriko

I sure can't wait for it to become just as boring and lifeless to play as the other melee :)

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lifeless might be the right word because if they apply the Kaiten Removal Logic onto Dragoon Oh Life Surge will be gone, son!
Therefor they boost your Burst Finisher and give it a Heal effect, hope you'll like that^^

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Originally Posted by KuroMaboroshi

I wonder what even gave them the idea that "extensive" adjustments are needed. Is DRG somehow unpopular over on the JP DC?

Almost all DRGs I know thinks the job is doing just fine, and needs some minor QoL fixes at most.

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that's not a prerequisite for them to change jobs anyway. Nobody really asked for the SAM changes but here we are

Probably going to remove button bloat.

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Originally Posted by gamerseb

Probably going to remove button bloat.

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Welp, RIP my main I guess.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

Welp, RIP my main I guess.

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no worries, there's Gunbreaker until next expansion, before they turn that into Warrior too

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

no worries, there's Gunbreaker until next expansion, before they turn that into Warrior too

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Please no, Gunbreaker is all I have left. :(

Who needs life surge? Useles button bloat, you always use it in the same place anyway. Gone.
Why mirage dive? Always use it after jump! So no more having to think about annoying things like when to enter Life. Fake difficulty. Cut off.
Also why is dragon sight and blood for blood... excuse me, lance charge still in the game? Just merge this two with litany already, gimme something cool like a 2 min CD 5% damage increase. That would give me 2 whole new slots in my hotbar, i really need those for some of the new emotes coming out!
Also while we're at it, cant we take some positionals away? Feels soo bad when i miss them.

Ok that's it thx!








This post is sarcasm btw...

Hopium timeline: DRG changes were pushed back because they are re-evaluating things after 6.1 response to SAM/NIN.

Look at the plus side. The backlash from SAM was so severe they actually decided to hold off on releasing the changes in 6.2. Hopefully that means they are re-evaluating their job design philosophies they have been recently pushing.

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

no worries, there's Gunbreaker until next expansion, before they turn that into Warrior too

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well.. Gunbreaker has 'break' in the name.. and what are we doing with things that are broken? we throw it in the trash (or repair it, preferably)

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Look at the plus side. The backlash from SAM was so severe they actually decided to hold off on releasing the changes in 6.2. Hopefully that means they are re-evaluating their job design philosophies they have been recently pushing.

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That's some serious copium man. They likely got pushed back in favor of addressing anti crit synergy.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Look at the plus side. The backlash from SAM was so severe they actually decided to hold off on releasing the changes in 6.2. Hopefully that means they are re-evaluating their job design philosophies they have been recently pushing.

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With zero mentioning of sam revert they will going to double down on auto crits and remove skills because of that aswell

Possibly, but that is still on par with the severe backlash from SAM changes. Hopefully we'll know more next month,

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Look at the plus side. The backlash from SAM was so severe they actually decided to hold off on releasing the changes in 6.2. Hopefully that means they are re-evaluating their job design philosophies they have been recently pushing.

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Or they just want to buy themselves more time - wait 5 more months until most non-casual SAM players leave or swap, then off they go gut another job. New wave of DRG mains who never had the need to go to forums will swarm this place just like we did and cycle continues.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

Or they just want to buy themselves more time - wait 5 more months until most non-casual SAM players leave or swap, then off they go gut another job. New wave of DRG mains who never had the need to go to forums will swarm this place just like we did and cycle continues.

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Honestly if they ruin DRG I don't know what else to play. We have a nin in my static so I can't swap to that and I'm kinda meh about nin anyways. RPR got boring really quick, and while I initially liked the mnk changes, by the time I got it to 90 I aboslutely hated it. So I'm pretty SOL on melee jobs as a pretty much melee only player who mained BRD for an extremely brief period in SB.

It's happening whether we like it or not, so I am going to wait and see before I make up my mind about it.
It's a good sign however that they're not rushing it.

Edit: Also we've had reworks before that have been great.
We've had bad ones too so I understand being a bit scared and skeptical.
But I still think we should wait and see before getting too mad.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Look at the plus side. The backlash from SAM was so severe they actually decided to hold off on releasing the changes in 6.2. Hopefully that means they are re-evaluating their job design philosophies they have been recently pushing.

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I never heard them say that, aren't Job changes normally covered in part 2 of the live letters?

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Originally Posted by Amh_Wilzuun

Hopium timeline: DRG changes were pushed back because they are re-evaluating things after 6.1 response to SAM/NIN.

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Sorry to burst your bubble:
They literally said that they are thinking about crit buffs work with auto crit abilities. This means they double down on SAM auto crit and also means that DRG will also get one (because Life Surge is button bloat yadda yadda)

DRG mains should consider switching MNK/NIN/RPR while they are playable.

Any actual changes are generally covered in part 2 yes, but they announced in todays LL that the planned changes for AST and DRG are being delayed as they were "wary" of the feedback received from the SAM changes. Basically it was an "oh shit we fucked up and don't know what to do now" without completely acknowledging that they fucked up.

Countdown till we have no more fun dps jobs left to play (ok, there's ninja, but it doesn't feel as good as drg by far)

Why tho, dragoon feels amazing right now
is it gonna lose all its positionals now? <_<

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

Why tho, dragoon feels amazing right now
is it gonna lose all its positionals now? <_<

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It has two positionals like all other melees (ninja even has 3), so I think that's the only think safe for keeping. The rest though...

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

It has two positionals like all other melees (ninja even has 3), so I think that's the only think safe for keeping. The rest though...

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Three actually

Chaotic Spring (Rear)
Wheeling Thrust (Rear)
Fang and Claw (Flank)

I'm betting they remove the positional from Chaotic Spring personally.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Three actually

Chaotic Spring (Rear)
Wheeling Thrust (Rear)
Fang and Claw (Flank)

I'm betting they remove the positional from Chaotic Spring personally.

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You're right, I'm a potato.

since they hate anything other than circle aoes, i wonder if drg might get ring of thorns back since they're undoubtedly eyeing its line aoes

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

since they hate anything other than circle aoes, i wonder if drg might get ring of thorns back since they're undoubtedly eyeing its line aoes

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Nah, that would make too much sense, we don't do that here. Instead they'll just duplicate the effect 4 times and rotate each by 90 degrees. Doom Spike? 8 claws, each in one cardinal and intercardinal direction. Sonic Thrust? Well, you see, it has sonic in it, which means very fast, and because of that, dragoon thrusts in every direction simultaneously. Coerthan Torment, Geirosgul and others? Well, you just yeet 8 spears and the same time in each direction.

If this seems absurd (well, it is), then don't forget that's exactly what happened with Tenka Goken. Atleast they've made legitimate animation for Fuko, but that was in 6.0, if I'm not mistaken.

But honestly, I'm staying optimistic. DRG is quite literally "thrust" job, doubt they would replace 4+ skills for that.

considering they said "they have been adding the bare minimal" and Dragoon has "hit a wall" seems like its in for a full rework soon.
perhaps its too perfect in their eyes

honestly i really only expected merging fang/wheeling and probably remove disembowl then just add potency to the weapon skills to make up for it.

As a DRG main, I personally like its' high skill ceiling. I understand the concept of making things more accessible for new players, but only within reason. sure, mitigate button bloat, I'd be ok with merging Fang/Wheeling into one button that changes, similar to True Thrust turning into Raiden Thrust. Perhaps making Raiden Thrust turn into Wyrmwind Thrust in the same way. but please, please, leave the core dragoon weaponskill rotation alone! As one of the only jobs, if not the only job, with more than one weaponskill combo path, it has a unique flavor that I, personally, really enjoy. There is something to be said for simplicity, yes, but there is also fun and satisfaction in different animations.

Personally, I think the tank jobs, except for Gunbreaker, really suffer for this. Having only one set of weaponskill animations to spam over and over again gets boring. Gunbreaker is saved from this because of the Continuation combo. Same for the new Summoner. I thought the 6.0 changes were great at first, but after having played it, it's really rather boring now.

My points may seem silly to some players, I know. I believe variety is the spice of life, and that extends to ability animations. I feel the same way about Keiten. It was a cool looking ability, and Sam just seems so much less cool now.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Any actual changes are generally covered in part 2 yes, but they announced in todays LL that the planned changes for AST and DRG are being delayed as they were "wary" of the feedback received from the SAM changes. Basically it was an "oh shit we fucked up and don't know what to do now" without completely acknowledging that they fucked up.

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Yeah you're right I checked again.
But I mean that's essentially an admission that they did something that wasn't received well and it has caused them to reconsider.
I dunno if it's so much as not knowing what to do tho than re-thinking what to do because of the feedback which is a good thing.

I am still hopeful that in part 2 when they talk about Job changes that we're getting Kaiten back.
I know that it feels like we're not listened to sometimes, but the Savage Criterion dungeons are happening because they do listen.
Yoshi-P did say that they're adding them specifically because the Western playerbase have been asking for it.
It's frustrating when things don't happen fast enough but I'll hold my judgement until I have everything in front of me and know what's actually going to happen.

I actually am a bit hopeful about the rework for DRG too.
Part of me is worried too because it's sort of a '' if it ain't broken don't fix it '' situation.
But I've also felt for a very long time that Jumps aren't good enough for DRG and that they don't quite feel powerful enough or like it's the main event for DRG.
I am hoping this rework will put more of an emphasis on the Jumps and buff them quite a bit, make them feel different than just yet another ogcd and more important and impactful to your damage.

I think they sorta did this with the Beast Chakra for MNK, MNK ain't perfect atm but I still think that they have the right idea of making dynamic and flexible combo:ing the big thing for MNK.
The concept of a '' combo-master '' basically.
We complain a lot about homogenization, and I think reworks like that actually do well at making things less homogenized and giving more identity to Jobs.
So I hope this will be the case for DRG too, that a bigger emphasis on the Jumps will make them feel like they have a stronger identity rather than if I am to dumb it down a bit '' melee with a bit more ogcd's ''.

Heck yeah! Now other people can experience the SMN rework style! Dumb it down to where you need about 6 buttons! Can't wait for MNK, BLM, and NIN to get theirs!

Wooh, go casual players!

/s

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Originally Posted by Stasya

Sorry to burst your bubble:
They literally said that they are thinking about crit buffs work with auto crit abilities. This means they double down on SAM auto crit and also means that DRG will also get one (because Life Surge is button bloat yadda yadda)

DRG mains should consider switching MNK/NIN/RPR while they are playable.

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I’m okay with auto crit, I mainly just want kaiten back

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Originally Posted by godvivec

Heck yeah! Now other people can experience the SMN rework style! Dumb it down to where you need about 6 buttons! Can't wait for MNK, BLM, and NIN to get theirs!

Wooh, go casual players!

/s

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Woah now, you can use some clever macros to make Summoner exactly one button.

Woah now, the battle design team is hard at work, sharpen their axes, to give you an easier and carefree job experience. Soon they'll just merge PvP and PvE to give you 6 buttons, one for each 20 levels.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

But I mean that's essentially an admission that they did something that wasn't received well and it has caused them to reconsider.

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Nah i'm not buying this. If sam was not well recieved and they want to reconsider they would pulled patches like pvp blm already. There is zero mentions about sam complete revert and they double down on auto crit abilties in part 1.

DRG auto crit on wheelingthrust/fang and claw and heavens thrust is on the way in part 2. They will just try play it out "we know better than you (even if no one of devs play drg and random interns were tasked with dumbing down job)"

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Originally Posted by Stasya

Nah i'm not buying this. If sam was not well recieved and they want to reconsider they would pulled patches like pvp blm already. There is zero mentions about sam complete revert and they double down on auto crit abilties in part 1.

DRG auto crit on wheelingthrust/fang and claw and heavens thrust is on the way in part 2. They will just try play it out "we know better than you (even if no one of devs play drg and random interns were tasked with dumbing down job)"

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I think competitive PvP and PvE are different, PvP generally tends to be more urgent because the player is on the receiving end.
If a Job is underpowered or overpowered in PvE it's generally not as urgent unless it's on the extreme end.
Yoshi-P also asked us to give it a chance and keep giving feedback, which to me at least would entail that they wanted to keep the change around until the next major patch to kinda see if the change would sink in and be better received with time.
I don't think this has happened however, and I think that yes the DRG and AST reworks being delayed and SAM being specifically referenced as to why does indicate that they're aware and acknowledge it.

The Job changes are being covered in part 2 they didn't talk about any of the Jobs outside of mentioning the delay for DRG and AST.
The auto crit issue has also been a thing for a very very long time and doesn't only affect SAM.
They're not just talking about everything from the pov of SAM here but that's how you're essentially interpreting it, they're speaking about things in a broader sense.

You have no clue what they're doing with DRG either but again you're taking one comment made by the devs and are reading it into everything.
And then if you're wrong you'll probably just keep doing it the next time too and never acknowledge that you were wrong.
It's just best not to needlessly speculate like this just to rile people up, it's better to wait until you have it in front of you.

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Originally Posted by Amh_Wilzuun

I’m okay with auto crit, I mainly just want kaiten back

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You are fine with auto crit then get ready for even less combos (because not hitting buttons right is damage variance) for every class. Might aswell you will like remove everything and kill boss with auto attack.

Like really, your auto crit was introduced to lower damage variance same your kaiten is also damage variance (see first sentence). Either revert sam back completly or play this (with even more dumbing down later).

wonder if they are simplifying classes, to make mechanics harder.., and have something simple to build on for the future (like how Blm was simple, effective but simple, over the years it was easier to build upon its "simple" roation, now Blm doesn't have buiton overkill, but feels more busy / engaging.., maybe SE needs to find a gud "base" rota again (after messing some up) to build on for the years to come)
...
btw (off topic) when resubbing to FFXIV, it asked me if im subbing to "FFXIV or FFXIV-2".., why was a FFXIV-2 even on the menu?? (pro means something else, orca leak lol?)

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

wonder if they are simplifying classes, to make mechanics harder.., and have something simple to build on for the future (like how Blm was simple, effective but simple, over the years it was easier to build upon its "simple" roation, now Blm doesn't have buiton overkill, but feels more busy / engaging.., maybe SE needs to find a gud "base" rota again (after messing some up) to build on for the years to come)

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I don't know. The perception I have, talking specifically about savages, is that during HW and SB we had more things to deal with than we have now. The fights became more graphical from ShB onwards but I felt like they were also simplified when compared with savages in these two previous expansions. Again, that's only my pov.
Also we had to deal with way more skills and abilities before, especially in HW. So I can't see them simplifying jobs for the sake of making harder mechanics.

To make room for future skills is the more likely reason... but to gut jobs for a whole two years compromising people's enjoyment precisely when the main story finished and the new one still picking up is kind of a very risky move imo.