Black Mage and me

Disappointed comparing either my Black Mage or Red Mage, in Trust, with Alisaie's DPS. At level 84 in Tower of Babil she does 35% higher DPS than my BLM (using ACT). I have heard Trusts are slower than player groups because the Trust DPS is lower than actual players. That means I am REALLY lower than actual players. Have spent weeks fine-tuning my rotation - think I know how to play BLM but maybe this class rotation is just not meshing with me. How does your DPS stack up against Alisaie? (P.S. My gear level is 528)

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Originally Posted by Kenyon

Disappointed comparing either my Black Mage or Red Mage, in Trust, with Alisaie's DPS. At level 84 in Tower of Babil she does 35% higher DPS than my BLM (using ACT). I have heard Trusts are slower than player groups because the Trust DPS is lower than actual players. That means I am REALLY lower than actual players. Have spent weeks fine-tuning my rotation - think I know how to play BLM but maybe this class rotation is just not meshing with me. How does your DPS stack up against Alisaie? (P.S. My gear level is 528)

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Trusts are an awful point of reference. They are hard coded to take 25-30 minutes in a dungeon. If you play well, they will eat glue and single target trash one by one. If you go AFK, after a certain point they will literally start one-shotting stuff.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Trusts are an awful point of reference. They are hard coded to take 25-30 minutes in a dungeon. If you play well, they will eat glue and single target trash one by one. If you go AFK, after a certain point they will literally start one-shotting stuff.

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You got my curiosity up so I decided to run Tower of Babil and do NO dps at all - never tried that before. Whole thing took only 5-6 mins more than it normally does! Looks like I should not knock myself out dps'ing for a few minutes less. I had often wished there was a better way to watch a boss fight than the YouTube videos which can leave out some details. This is a great alternative to just watch and learn!

Black mage can do good damage, it's just that the weight of each of its actions is a lot higher than other caster jobs and therefore the mechanic they use to juggle said actions is a lot more punishing than the other casters. Like if you lose your astral fire while mid-casting despair, you lose the damage from the spell as well as the time spent attempting the cast. Not to mention if the echolochian gets dropped entirely and there's no instant cast cooldowns left, getting back into the right motion also costs significant amounts of time.

Let's just say BLM is one of the least new player friendly jobs there is in the game. The other one up there is probably DRK due to the challenges it has with mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Black mage can do good damage, it's just that the weight of each of its actions is a lot higher than other caster jobs and therefore the mechanic they use to juggle said actions is a lot more punishing than the other casters. Like if you lose your astral fire while mid-casting despair, you lose the damage from the spell as well as the time spent attempting the cast. Not to mention if the echolochian gets dropped entirely and there's no instant cast cooldowns left, getting back into the right motion also costs significant amounts of time.

Let's just say BLM is one of the least new player friendly jobs there is in the game. The other one up there is probably DRK due to the challenges it has with mitigation.

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Those are all good things, it's more gratifying to execute something properly when screwing it up is punishing. I wish all jobs were as punishing but unfortunately people like you only get 18/19 jobs. How will you manage.

Yeah, again, depth in FF14 job, how dare they.

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Originally Posted by tearagion

Those are all good things, it's more gratifying to execute something properly when screwing it up is punishing. I wish all jobs were as punishing but unfortunately people like you only get 18/19 jobs. How will you manage.

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In a different game, sure. Unfortunately, that direction was gone when they started the march from 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

In a different game, sure. Unfortunately, that direction was gone when they started the march from 2.0.

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Then play a different job or game if it's making you that unhappy.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Let's just say BLM is one of the least new player friendly jobs there is in the game. The other one up there is probably DRK due to the challenges it has with mitigation.

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??? What challenges are you encountering in 2022 with mitigation in this game?

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Originally Posted by xAFROx

Then play a different job or game if it's making you that unhappy.

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I've played a lot of jobs and the only ones I haven't really started on are Dancer, Monk, and Astro. From what I've heard I probably should have leveled astro last x-pack but too late on that ship.

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

??? What challenges are you encountering in 2022 with mitigation in this game?

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Oh no problem at all if you're on anything other than DRK. Leveled all the tanks and if you really want to engage in that conversation, go to the Dark Knight Megathread. :P

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Originally Posted by Colt47

I've played a lot of jobs and the only ones I haven't really started on are Dancer, Monk, and Astro. From what I've heard I probably should have leveled astro last x-pack but too late on that ship.

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Then why are you advocating that a job be changed when the devs haven't broken it yet? If you've played most of everything else already, you've experienced when the devs break a job to 'fix' it.

Ya don't fix what ain't broke, y'know?

Seriously though, when all the actual BLM players are constantly telling you the "problems" you keep trying to bring up are the exact reasons they think it's a well designed job, should you not just admit maybe there's a you-problem at work here? It's just not for you.

But no, if a single job doesn't personally appeal to me I must die on this hill trying to somehow prove it's everyone else whose taste are wrong.

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Originally Posted by xAFROx

Then why are you advocating that a job be changed when the devs haven't broken it yet? If you've played most of everything else already, you've experienced when the devs break a job to 'fix' it.

Ya don't fix what ain't broke, y'know?

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It is broken due to the problem of spell speed / skill speed and timing windows. That's the same issue that was happening with warrior back in shadowbringers along with dark knight having to deal with blood weapon. Machinist still has the same problem with the heat gauge mechanic and Black Mage has to deal with it due to the Echolochian phases. They don't have to rework BLM from the ground up but it does need changes to make it not depend on spell speed to shore up weaknesses caused by time limited casting sections. That's why I mention the spells feel like they do need faster cast speeds, because the window causes the rotation during fire / despair to be inconsistent depending on the combat situation. Most jobs right now work off of temporarily suspending the existing rotation to deal with issues that occur on the field.

RDM and SMN do lose dps from motion but they do not necessarily lose their place in combo or sequence like the BLM does and that is why it is flawed. Of course experienced BLM players don't want change and will argue against it. I played freaking warrior and don't like the fact they changed the cone AOE to a circle, but I'll bite the nail on it since they did fix the problems with infuriate, which was a much bigger deal than losing the cone AOE.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

It is broken due to the problem of spell speed / skill speed and timing windows. That's the same issue that was happening with warrior back in shadowbringers along with dark knight having to deal with blood weapon. Machinist still has the same problem with the heat gauge mechanic and Black Mage has to deal with it due to the Echolochian phases. They don't have to rework BLM from the ground up but it does need changes to make it not depend on spell speed to shore up weaknesses caused by time limited casting sections. That's why I mention the spells feel like they do need faster cast speeds, because the window causes the rotation during fire / despair to be inconsistent depending on the combat situation. Most jobs right now work off of temporarily suspending the existing rotation to deal with issues that occur on the field.

RDM and SMN do lose dps from motion but they do not necessarily lose their place in combo or sequence like the BLM does and that is why it is flawed. Of course experienced BLM players don't want change and will argue against it. I played freaking warrior and don't like the fact they changed the cone AOE to a circle, but I'll bite the nail on it since they did fix the problems with infuriate, which was a much bigger deal than losing the cone AOE.

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BLM with zero spell speed has a surplus of over 3s after 3 fire IVs before Enochian will fall off without a swiftcast (counting the time you would need to cast Despair), you can even cast 4 fire IVs before Paradox just barely (on my ping). BLM needing to plan instant casts for movement is a skill expression that really shouldn't be removed from another caster.

Your issue is a skill issue not a BLM issue. None of what you ever list is an actual problem.

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Originally Posted by tearagion

BLM with zero spell speed has a surplus of over 3s after 3 fire IVs before Enochian will fall off without a swiftcast (counting the time you would need to cast Despair), you can even cast 4 fire IVs before Paradox just barely (on my ping). BLM needing to plan instant casts for movement is a skill expression that really shouldn't be removed from another caster.

Your issue is a skill issue not a BLM issue. None of what you ever list is an actual problem.

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This argument has continued in two whole threads. I don't think Colt wants to get off this hill.

But yeah, BLM is not in a bad spot. There are other jobs that need work, though.

Got my Black Mage to 90 and was able to compare to my Level 90 Red Mage. Sure enough, just like FF Logs reports, the Black Mage does at least 4% more dps than my Red Mage, sometimes higher. But that is on a target dummy. In the heat of the battle I am sure to lose that 4% on frustrations like INTERRUPTED, Not enough Mana, or having to move. Probably count Paradox in the list of frustrations when I don't get it off in time to extend Fire III. I need a more 'tolerant' rotation like the Red Mage. BUT sure am going to miss Aetherial Manipulation - that was a totally awesome spell.

BLM is perfect, your just not skilled enough, sorry to break it to you

I picked up BLM after being away from the game for years. What BLM guides are people looking at these days? Is there anything for controller players or is that a no no?

I'd suggest joining '' The Balance '' Discord server and taking a look at their guides.

Thank you I will do that later today.