They ever gonna fix the market board?

Like add buy orders?

Purchasing exact amount wanted vs the entire listed stack?

The whole thing feels extremely dated as it currently is. I appreciate them redoing the early dungeons, but the market board effects both new and old players.

Should maybe divert some resources to making that better.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

Like add buy orders?

Purchasing exact amount wanted vs the entire listed stack?

The whole thing feels extremely dated as it currently is. I appreciate them redoing the early dungeons, but the market board effects both new and old players.

Should maybe divert some resources to making that better.

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Buy orders sound like an excellent idea that I'd love to see added.

But purchasing exact amounts? How would that work without forcing people to split the stacks they sell, which would not be an improvement for the sellers? People usually only want to sell in the amounts they list. It's a nice way to offer discounts. List 1 item for 100% price and 4 of the same item for 80% given folk an incentive to buy more of your goods.
I suppose you could add buy orders that grab an exact stack of what you want if someone happens to list that exact amount of an item, or if it could be assembled from multiple smaller stacks, but other than that I don't see it working...

You could always go gather your own stuff if you only want a few. Be proactive! There's so much more to the game than the Limsa aetheryte plaza!

on the surface, appears to be a nice idea... but..

if you put up 50, sell only what someone needs, and are undercut, the remaining ones wont sell, until you lower the price. it could be up there for a while as you are being undercut by others as time goes on and theirs gets purchased over yours. That will play havoc with the open market spots on retainers. Or are you also suggesting they set the pricing as well?

As nice as they are in theory, sadly in my experience that system doesn't work too well.
Heres how the average sale looks in every MMO i have seen with one:

Potato: Shop sell price: 5 gil, Buy orders: 1 gil, Sell orders: 20 gil

Too put it simply, like everything, players tend to ruin it by placing buy orders that will never be filled.

The thing i would like too see is something like EVE online market. Prices are automatically set and altered based on current supply and demand. More sales and less stock = higher prices. Few sales: gradual reduction in price too a min level above shop sell value.

This is a buyer benefit. The seller is also seeking to free up inventory space along with the sale. You need to keep that in mind. Put the surplus back up for sale. You can mitigate the cost, or even profit in some cases.

That sounds horrible for the seller...

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Originally Posted by Sililos

As nice as they are in theory, sadly in my experience that system doesn't work too well.
Heres how the average sale looks in every MMO i have seen with one:

Potato: Shop sell price: 5 gil, Buy orders: 1 gil, Sell orders: 20 gil

Too put it simply, like everything, players tend to ruin it by placing buy orders that will never be filled.

The thing i would like too see is something like EVE online market. Prices are automatically set and altered based on current supply and demand. More sales and less stock = higher prices. Few sales: gradual reduction in price too a min level above shop sell value.

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I like the ability to sell things instantly in GW2.
Even if it's a loss sometimes I just want to clear out my inventory and make some quick gil.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

on the surface, appears to be a nice idea... but..

if you put up 50, sell only what someone needs, and are undercut, the remaining ones wont sell, until you lower the price. it could be up there for a while as you are being undercut by others as time goes on and theirs gets purchased over yours. That will play havoc with the open market spots on retainers. Or are you also suggesting they set the pricing as well?

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Guild Wars 2 has this method in their Trading Post.

Things are eventually sold unless you've put your price at way too high for current demand.

Granted, an individual doesn't have a limited number of slots to sell things in FFXIV like they do in GW2.

I'd say for this to be plausible, they'd have to make retainers be able to sell an unlimited number of items to account for things that may take ages to sell. I've had things in GW2 take months to sell, some of them were up for more than a year even - and they were at minimum price you could sell them on the market for. And that's not reasonable for a game that limits how many things you can sell at any one time.

I could get behind buy orders if they are done sensibly. The partial stack buying tho... I am afraid it would hurt crafters and gatherers. One price per an item makes the competition with bots more difficult. The crafters lose wholesale prices of materials. Supply of materials goes up, because people no longer buy more items than they need. The demand for crafted items goes down, because you can just go to MB, pick up the exact amount of materials and craft the item yourself. The fixed stacks may seem like poor design but it's also a building block of in-game economy.

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Originally Posted by Sililos

The thing i would like too see is something like EVE online market. Prices are automatically set and altered based on current supply and demand. More sales and less stock = higher prices. Few sales: gradual reduction in price too a min level above shop sell value.

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Just so you know, almost the entirety of the Eve Online market is operated by players. There are some exceptions like base level skill books and some other NPC provided items, but if you're referring to things like ships or modules, that is entirely player run. Which just goes to show the buy order / sell order system they use works.

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Originally Posted by Seera1024

Guild Wars 2 has this method in their Trading Post.

Things are eventually sold unless you've put your price at way too high for current demand.

Granted, an individual doesn't have a limited number of slots to sell things in FFXIV like they do in GW2.

I'd say for this to be plausible, they'd have to make retainers be able to sell an unlimited number of items to account for things that may take ages to sell. I've had things in GW2 take months to sell, some of them were up for more than a year even - and they were at minimum price you could sell them on the market for. And that's not reasonable for a game that limits how many things you can sell at any one time.

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I never played GW2. Wouldn't this just lead to players using it for unlimited storage? That is most certainly what it would be used for if FFXIV worked that way.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I never played GW2. Wouldn't this just lead to players using it for unlimited storage? That is most certainly what it would be used for if FFXIV worked that way.

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Normally you would have a deposit that you would have to pay to put it up. If you cancel the sale, you lose the deposit. So you could if you wanted but you'd be losing a lot of money for the privilege.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Normally you would have a deposit that you would have to pay to put it up. If you cancel the sale, you lose the deposit. So you could if you wanted but you'd be losing a lot of money for the privilege.

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And you risk someone buying it. So you have to put it up for an obscene amount of money for it which makes the deposit possibly a greater value than the item itself.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Normally you would have a deposit that you would have to pay to put it up. If you cancel the sale, you lose the deposit. So you could if you wanted but you'd be losing a lot of money for the privilege.

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Hmm. I wonder how much of stored items by players are actually utilized, and how much this number increases as the player acquires more items. As I said previously, the player would be using it for storage, and would not be actively taking items in and out. This would make the deposit negligible at worst for most players.

Obviously, I am not proposing such a half-arsed system for storage, but it did get me thinking.

I often sell different stacks of the same items, the less items in the stack (10 or less) the higher my price. It may suit some buyers as it is still a lot less expensive than stacks of 99. If I need only a few ingredients and there are stacks of 99, I either go gather my own stuff or buy the stack use what I need and resell the rest in smaller stacks at a higher price.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

Purchasing exact amount wanted vs the entire listed stack?

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It only rewards the bot operators while punishing proper people playing for profits. A popular practice on the marketplace is conveniently listing craft-sized-quantities at a competitive cost.

Even though my 3 units cost more individually than the bot operator listing multiple stacks of 99, my total price is 1/4 theirs.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

Purchasing exact amount wanted vs the entire listed stack?

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This sounds like the "I only care about my benefit and screw everyone else" idea dressing up as "improvement".

I don't think the game has a strong enough variance in the economy to survive such a feature. Being able to lowball buy orders will just make things even more absurdly cheap and limit player options to explore unclaimed markets even further. It might work for something like OSRS but even that strong market fell to shit.

God I wish we had the option to buy specific numbers of items instead of an entire stack. Black Desert Online had this, and it was so good in that game. None of this BS where one guy buys up all the reasonably segmented number of items and then resells it all in a pack of 99. No BS where you need like, 2 items to craft something but everyone's selling 10 of them or whatever. You just go to someone's stack, and buy exactly how much you want. Easy.
Something about the menus in this game just gives me reason to stop hoping. I don't know what it is. Like... the way you can't really work inside of two systems at once, just seems to imply that the UI is super old and that oldness is kinda baked into the backbone of the game. So I've never hoped for better. But god, I wish. I do wish. Just that alone would be such an improvement, being able to buy select amounts from a stack. Even from a seller perspective, I wouldn't have to spread a bunch of items across multiple retainers just to sell them off in packs of 2 or 3 anymore. It would save a ton of time and retainer space. I genuinely can't understand why anyone would be against this. Even if your concern are bots, I mean -- they already abuse every other corner of the game. Maybe SE should deal with the bot problem head on instead of letting the fear of bots get in the way of actual good features.

It functions fine, I'd rather they did something about the bots

I wish they would change the class symbols to job icons. Clicking the CNJ one as WHM feels weird.

i usually sell in smaller stacks, anyway.
wouldn't wanna turn away potential buyers just because I got little greedy and tried to sell some non-billionaire 99x stack of some nuggets or ores or something.
when I am the same and usually just need one or two whatever.
if i am feeling extra vindictive i buy that x99 stack, use my one or two mats and sell the rest in smaller stacks and relatively higher price, making my gil back and little profit on top
i swear the selling stack size matters

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

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Solving the bot issue? Care to give an example of an MMO that actually succeed? Cause I fail to think of any reasonably popular one (enough to sustain that type of activity) that doesn't have that issue. And I'm not sure if there's any fix to that as long as there are people willing to participate in RMT as a buyer.

For your earlier point... Honestly if someone, anyone needs less than 15 (for monster drops) or even 50 (in case of gatherables) of a specific material they are better off sending retainer on a venture or doing the gathering themselves. In case of rare materials that drop from treasures etc they're usually sold in very small stacks anyway.

Would love a change to FFXIV's MB. Right now it's extremely inconvenient.

The public nature of the listings makes it a little bit too competitive because there are definitely both people and bots alike that will sit there at the bell all day undercutting you. And there's nothing really wrong with the undercutting as it is a product of low demand combined with a competitive market. BUT it is annoying to have to leave items up in your limited slots, knowing they may or may not sell through the undercutting or knowing that if you want to sell it quicker you have to adjust the price frequently.

I mean really, at that point, what's the point of even having the MB if you have to attend to it constantly to get anything sold? You might as well just remove the MB and create a trading location for manually trading at that point. And to clarify, I'm absolutely not saying that we should do this. I'm just saying this is about as effectective as the MB currently is right now for some of the playerbase.

Instead we should have private price listings with an average price shown(taken from the average of what each item has sold for previously, but only updated daily[maybe every two days, maybe twice a week] to prevent price manipulations). And let people buy as much as they want instead of having to buy out an entire stack, along with allowing people to sell up to 999 items in a stack per slot and allowing each item to sell individually. We might have to tweak the number of slots a bit to balance it but this would immediately make the MB so much more user friendly.

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Originally Posted by Sililos

The thing i would like too see is something like EVE online market. Prices are automatically set and altered based on current supply and demand. More sales and less stock = higher prices. Few sales: gradual reduction in price too a min level above shop sell value.

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EVE has (or at least had. been years since i played) the best market system I've ever seen. Entirely player driven economy the average prices are governed entirely by the player base and transaction history.

If you have 1000 ore. And want to sell it you can either look a the sell orders and find people are selling it for 125gil each.

Or you can look a the buy orders and find people are willing to buy it for 100gil.

The average price is then calculated based on the ratio of orders fulfilled. So if 10 buy orders get fulfilled that day but no sell orders the average price goes down. So players will often lower the price on there sell orders..

But if no sellers accept the buy order prices and as a result 10 sell orders are fulfilled that day and no buy orders. Then the average price goes up. Which then pushes the buyers to increase there buy order prices.

Entirely player driven supply and demand.. if you wanted a quick sale. you could acept a buy order. or if you wanted to maximise profits you could set your own price and wait for a buyer willing to pay it.. you saw a lot less undercutting too because people in a hurry would just sell quick to the best buy offer.

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Originally Posted by KuroMaboroshi

But purchasing exact amounts? How would that work without forcing people to split the stacks they sell, which would not be an improvement for the sellers? People usually only want to sell in the amounts they list. It's a nice way to offer discounts.

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XIV also needs split stack sales options.
One of the reasons so much gil never circulates is because players can't buy what they need..

I need 6 ingots. I'm not going to buy a stack of 99. Instead I'll just spend 10 minutes gathering the materials myself.. If I could buy the 6 I need then my gil would circulate.. but when I can't. My gil stagnates.. inventory is precious so buying more than you need is a big no no for many players. even if they can just relist the excess then they have to pay fees and everything so yeah just go gather it yourself is what many players do.

XIV 1.2 basically already had this system already.. When you sold items on the markets there was basically a tick box next to price. that allowed split sales.. so if that box wasnt ticked only the full stack could be bought.. if it was ticxked then players could buy 1 2 4 or any number they chose..

So what players did was list a stack of 99 ingots at maybe 1000 gil each but allow the stack to be split so if you wanted 10 it'd cost you 10,000 gil if you wanted 80 it'd cost you 80,000 gil

Taat player could list another 99 ingots at maybe 750 gil each but you had to buy the full stack if you wanted the cheaper unit price.. so 74,250 gil for all 99...

basically how supermarkets work.. 1 can of coke. $1.. 12 cans of coke $8.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

I could get behind buy orders if they are done sensibly. The partial stack buying tho... I am afraid it would hurt crafters and gatherers. One price per an item makes the competition with bots more difficult. The crafters lose wholesale prices of materials. Supply of materials goes up, because people no longer buy more items than they need. The demand for crafted items goes down, because you can just go to MB, pick up the exact amount of materials and craft the item yourself. The fixed stacks may seem like poor design but it's also a building block of in-game economy.

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as a counter point i'd say demand for materials would go up.. and it would benefit crafters and gatherers... kinda ties in to what i just said though..
under the current system players cant buy what they need so often they'll just go gather it themselves.. which then leads to gil staganting..

however if players could easily buy whatthey need.. more gils would circulate and keep the economy going.. could also have the impact of pushing prices up because if buying the exact amount becomes easy there's less incentive to go and gather it yourself. which means less people gathering = less supply more demand,

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Originally Posted by Dzian

XIV also needs split stack sales options.
One of the reasons so much gil never circulates is because players can't buy what they need..

I need 6 ingots. I'm not going to buy a stack of 99. Instead I'll just spend 10 minutes gathering the materials myself.. If I could buy the 6 I need then my gil would circulate.. but when I can't. My gil stagnates.. inventory is precious so buying more than you need is a big no no for many players. even if they can just relist the excess then they have to pay fees and everything so yeah just go gather it yourself is what many players do.

XIV 1.2 basically already had this system already.. When you sold items on the markets there was basically a tick box next to price. that allowed split sales.. so if that box wasnt ticked only the full stack could be bought.. if it was ticxked then players could buy 1 2 4 or any number they chose..

So what players did was list a stack of 99 ingots at maybe 1000 gil each but allow the stack to be split so if you wanted 10 it'd cost you 10,000 gil if you wanted 80 it'd cost you 80,000 gil

Taat player could list another 99 ingots at maybe 750 gil each but you had to buy the full stack if you wanted the cheaper unit price.. so 74,250 gil for all 99...

basically how supermarkets work.. 1 can of coke. $1.. 12 cans of coke $8.

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If it is optional like you described here, I could get behind it.
The only reason I was opposed to OP's suggestion of letting people buy out of stacks is cause it sounded like an enforced thing. As many already pointed out, it would be horrible for sellers, since in buying up the entire stack the seller gets to clear out the very limited selling slots on retainers, which buying out of a full stack would prevent. In a game where you have 2 retainers with 20 slots each by default (even less if you want to show off some armour pieces in your house) that would be ridiculous.

But if it is optional, the economy would balance prices around how much value people attach to the convenience of selling "out of stack" vs. "as a stack", which sounds fair enough, especially if dynamic pricing can be set.

Selling in stacks provides the seller with more options though, and ultimately gives the buyer a range of prices.
You could sell your items individually for 5k, or you can sell a stack of 10 for 45k, offering a bulk buy discount. Or vice versa. I see a stack of 10 listed for 45k or 4.5k each, then I could list a smaller stack that works out to 5k. I'm not undercutting, but I'm also still listed an item that provides me with a real chance to sell.
When I'm buying materials I often don't go for the top listing, because it's not necessarily the cheapest option, it could be more than I actually need, so I scroll down and find a smaller stack, that might work out more expensive per item, but cheaper overall.

But if buyers could buy individual items from your stack, well then there's no incentive to offer that discount, and no option to list smaller stacks for a higher amount, you'd just list them for 5k each anyway and then there's no legitimate reason to not undercut with every listing. You then introduce the same toxic undercutting practices you see on distinct items, to stackable materials too.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

This sounds like the "I only care about my benefit and screw everyone else" idea dressing up as "improvement".

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This is true. I am the only person that buys anything on the market board on all servers.

Buy orders seem redundant for the MB. It's a seller's market in this game. If you really want to order something, just use shout in a city (or maybe even FC chat) and someone's bound to take interest.

I use the mb very sparingly as it is and get all my crafting done myself. I would look at buy orders even less frequently because of the time it would take to try and satisfy the order before someone else finishes it.