Allow cancelling personal housing lottery bid - here's why

I've been saving up for months to purchase a house in the game. I am a newish player and haven't even finished MSQ. However, private housing as part of gameplay begins relatively early in progression, and the benefits to having an estate, even a small one, are not just cosmetic (though there is nothing wrong with that). I do not own or really want an apartment, but it looks like that may be my only option. I don't want to join a FC right now, a choice I've decided to make which I know limits my gameplay a bit, but one that the Game Developers want to support (as they introduce more ways to solo-play).

I believe that with limited housing plots, a lottery system for private housing is the only fair way. HOWEVER, I FINALLY got the opportunity to enter a lottery when it went live again today, clicking on a plot that only had 1 other participant at the time. A few hours later it has 10 already. By the time the lottery ends, who knows how many it will have? Suddenly that shady plot up in the corner is looking pretty attractive to me with 1 bid on it - I wish I could pull out of the original bid and switch to a plot I have a better chance of getting. I've emptied my gil coffers, have to wait 5 days to see that I've likely lost, and will have to try all over again with no hints beforehand as to the plots I am MORE LIKELY to win the lottery on. So allowing cancellation of a bid seems only fair. It would reduce the pool for the high-demand plot, so its not like I'm gaming the system. I bet there are many solo players out there who would rather have a less-desirable plot than no plot at all - give us that choice is all I ask.

I believe that the ultimate solution is to have more housing. Somehow. Not saying it would be easy from a server standpoint, but I believe that there are minds out there that could figure out the tech challenges.

There will be more housing. NA and EU have entire new worlds coming online later this year.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

There will be more housing. NA and EU have entire new worlds coming online later this year.

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Which is a drop in the bucket. My server alone could claim every single house on the new NA data center, and we’re not the largest server on Aether.

If you allow cancellation with no penalty, what's to stop people from trolling?

I can put a bid on a plot I have no intention of claiming and withdraw on the last day. That just artificially inflates the numbers for a specific plot to scare off people.

If getting the best odds is the most important to you, wait till the last day.

The supply is not high enough for the demand, that's the biggest problem. These minor tweaks just shuffles the frustration around.

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Originally Posted by LailaTov

I've been saving up for months to purchase a house in the game. I am a newish player and haven't even finished MSQ. However, private housing as part of gameplay begins relatively early in progression, and the benefits to having an estate, even a small one, are not just cosmetic (though there is nothing wrong with that). I do not own or really want an apartment, but it looks like that may be my only option. I don't want to join a FC right now, a choice I've decided to make which I know limits my gameplay a bit, but one that the Game Developers want to support (as they introduce more ways to solo-play).

I believe that with limited housing plots, a lottery system for private housing is the only fair way. HOWEVER, I FINALLY got the opportunity to enter a lottery when it went live again today, clicking on a plot that only had 1 other participant at the time. A few hours later it has 10 already. By the time the lottery ends, who knows how many it will have? Suddenly that shady plot up in the corner is looking pretty attractive to me with 1 bid on it - I wish I could pull out of the original bid and switch to a plot I have a better chance of getting. I've emptied my gil coffers, have to wait 5 days to see that I've likely lost, and will have to try all over again with no hints beforehand as to the plots I am MORE LIKELY to win the lottery on. So allowing cancellation of a bid seems only fair. It would reduce the pool for the high-demand plot, so its not like I'm gaming the system. I bet there are many solo players out there who would rather have a less-desirable plot than no plot at all - give us that choice is all I ask.

I believe that the ultimate solution is to have more housing. Somehow. Not saying it would be easy from a server standpoint, but I believe that there are minds out there that could figure out the tech challenges.

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They could have read the lodestone news to the lottery system before placing their bet. No one is forcing people to bid on the first day.

That's why I'm waiting until the last day to increase my chances, I don't care where the house is located. I just want one.

No, there should not be a bid withdrawal, it allows people to help their friends by placing bids on the same property to make it look very popular so other people skip over it, then all remove their bids at the last minutes leaving just the friend with 1 entry.

No change can be made to this without making the raffle process worthless.

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Originally Posted by LailaTov

...I bet there are many solo players out there who would rather have a less-desirable plot than no plot at all...

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Then don't buy an entry into the raffle in the first seconds of the period, wait until the end.

If you don't want to be part of an FC, create a solo FC. Your problem is solved. An easy house will be waiting for you

well, the lottery is working as intended. good luck OP, you still have your chance.
...

now, let's see how long it takes for someone to seriously suggest there should be hard cap to how many individuals may participate in single case of lottery
"for ffa raid loot you have 1/8 chance, so houses should be the same!!"

I understand - though it is very tribal and not in the spirit of the game to do such a thing - so like @burmecia said, there needs to be a cap on the lottery for each house, and/or MAYBE

Make a general pool for people who just want a house, that doesn't specify the location, but would almost guarantee a house SOMEWHERE (unspecified or very loosely specified so as to decrease trolling by friends) and have people enter THAT lottery and be unable to retract their bids - say...20 bids for 10 properties or something. Its still a choice and would still allow bidding on specific properties in separate lotteries.

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Originally Posted by Yodada

They could have read the lodestone news to the lottery system before placing their bet. No one is forcing people to bid on the first day.

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That doesn't make sense. I knew how the lottery worked. I was complaining about how it worked.

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Originally Posted by LailaTov

I understand - though it is very tribal and not in the spirit of the game to do such a thing - so like @burmecia said, there needs to be a cap on the lottery for each house, and/or MAYBE

Make a general pool for people who just want a house, that doesn't specify the location, but would almost guarantee a house SOMEWHERE (unspecified or very loosely specified so as to decrease trolling by friends) and have people enter THAT lottery and be unable to retract their bids - say...20 bids for 10 properties or something. Its still a choice and would still allow bidding on specific properties in separate lotteries.

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I actually don't think this is a bad idea. Of course, there would need to be some sort of regulator in place to ensure the "random" entries weren't going towards plots that people had specifically bid on but if we ever do get to the point where there are plots left sitting with no bids on them I don't think it's out of line to just have a "place a random entry on whatever is available" box.

This is absolutely not a good idea. People will just ask their friends to bid on the house, making the numbers look HUGE, and then their friends would pull back last minute so the original person will get the house. So no dont do this

You on the other hand made a major mistake. You could have entered the lottery last day 1 hour before the timer and you could have seen which houses have lowest bids. Now, what you can do is wait to lose and then bid in the next round. Good luck.

I personally just want them to make apartment rooms or FC rooms in multiple sizes. Like medium and big. As they are instanced that should be not a problem...

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

...now, let's see how long it takes for someone to seriously suggest there should be hard cap to how many individuals may participate in single case of lottery...

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First to get there when the lottery window starts gets the sole bid, and the placard is locked from all other entries until the end of the bidding window. It's then opened for the last 30 seconds for anyone to enter.

and PVP mode is turned on

I just made a thread about this too- I agree btw, the small plot I bid on has 40 bids, its discouraging to see & just want to take my gil back
It started out as just 2 bids
They could probably add some kind of cool down once you take out a bid until you can bid again

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Originally Posted by Shibi

First to get there when the lottery window starts gets the sole bid, and the placard is locked from all other entries until the end of the bidding window. It's then opened for the last 30 seconds for anyone to enter.

and PVP mode is turned on

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pvp mode is turned on and everyone's HP is reduced to 1- last person standing wins

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Originally Posted by Shibi

First to get there when the lottery window starts gets the sole bid, and the placard is locked from all other entries until the end of the bidding window. It's then opened for the last 30 seconds for anyone to enter.

and PVP mode is turned on

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Every other player bidding on the house is a black mage.

You are a dancer.

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Originally Posted by LailaTov

I've been saving up for months to purchase a house in the game. I am a newish player and haven't even finished MSQ. However, private housing as part of gameplay begins relatively early in progression, and the benefits to having an estate, even a small one, are not just cosmetic (though there is nothing wrong with that). I do not own or really want an apartment, but it looks like that may be my only option. I don't want to join a FC right now, a choice I've decided to make which I know limits my gameplay a bit, but one that the Game Developers want to support (as they introduce more ways to solo-play).

I believe that with limited housing plots, a lottery system for private housing is the only fair way. HOWEVER, I FINALLY got the opportunity to enter a lottery when it went live again today, clicking on a plot that only had 1 other participant at the time. A few hours later it has 10 already. By the time the lottery ends, who knows how many it will have? Suddenly that shady plot up in the corner is looking pretty attractive to me with 1 bid on it - I wish I could pull out of the original bid and switch to a plot I have a better chance of getting. I've emptied my gil coffers, have to wait 5 days to see that I've likely lost, and will have to try all over again with no hints beforehand as to the plots I am MORE LIKELY to win the lottery on. So allowing cancellation of a bid seems only fair. It would reduce the pool for the high-demand plot, so its not like I'm gaming the system. I bet there are many solo players out there who would rather have a less-desirable plot than no plot at all - give us that choice is all I ask.

I believe that the ultimate solution is to have more housing. Somehow. Not saying it would be easy from a server standpoint, but I believe that there are minds out there that could figure out the tech challenges.

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That would simply lead to people playing musical chairs with bids when they think there are too many on that plot. Which sounds like a headache for the server with the constant dumping and pulling of gill and participate numbers going around and around and I can already see a FC pooling a bunch into a single plot to get people to pull out so only they are the ones bidding. Look, no matter what you do at this point your odds are basically the same. Only real chance you had is if you did what I did and roll on a house right out of the gate where there were only like 8 bids. Also, you're not even done with MSQ and are new not even in the FC. This kind of stuff is, despite being introduced at level 15, an end game thing that people try at after years of playing. Not to say you can't participate but you'd be better investing your time in the main game first.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

There will be more housing. NA and EU have entire new worlds coming online later this year.

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It's been essentially mathematically proven that this isn't going to solve the issue. They need to make instanced homesteads that are isolated plots

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Originally Posted by Corvus_V

It's been essentially mathematically proven that this isn't going to solve the issue. They need to make instanced homesteads that are isolated plots

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Get apartment and get over with it.
They are not going that route.
Apartment is the so called instanced housing in this game, whether you like it or not.

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Originally Posted by LailaTov

I understand - though it is very tribal and not in the spirit of the game to do such a thing - so like @burmecia said, there needs to be a cap on the lottery for each house,

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he was mocking you. because you're asking them indirectly to put caps on how many people can bid on a house. you're not the only one who wants a house. you're not the only one who is going to bid. want better chances? wait til last day of bidding. walk around wards, and mark down which plots are getting the most bids, and avoid them.

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Originally Posted by LailaTov

I've been saving up for months to purchase a house in the game. I am a newish player and haven't even finished MSQ. However, private housing as part of gameplay begins relatively early in progression, and the benefits to having an estate, even a small one, are not just cosmetic (though there is nothing wrong with that). I do not own or really want an apartment, but it looks like that may be my only option. I don't want to join a FC right now, a choice I've decided to make which I know limits my gameplay a bit, but one that the Game Developers want to support (as they introduce more ways to solo-play).

I believe that with limited housing plots, a lottery system for private housing is the only fair way. HOWEVER, I FINALLY got the opportunity to enter a lottery when it went live again today, clicking on a plot that only had 1 other participant at the time. A few hours later it has 10 already. By the time the lottery ends, who knows how many it will have? Suddenly that shady plot up in the corner is looking pretty attractive to me with 1 bid on it - I wish I could pull out of the original bid and switch to a plot I have a better chance of getting. I've emptied my gil coffers, have to wait 5 days to see that I've likely lost, and will have to try all over again with no hints beforehand as to the plots I am MORE LIKELY to win the lottery on. So allowing cancellation of a bid seems only fair. It would reduce the pool for the high-demand plot, so its not like I'm gaming the system. I bet there are many solo players out there who would rather have a less-desirable plot than no plot at all - give us that choice is all I ask.

I believe that the ultimate solution is to have more housing. Somehow. Not saying it would be easy from a server standpoint, but I believe that there are minds out there that could figure out the tech challenges.

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If they allowed for cancelling, people would just do that last minute and bid again on a lower bid count property, there's a reason they don't do it

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Originally Posted by KurohNeko

That would simply lead to people playing musical chairs with bids when they think there are too many on that plot. Which sounds like a headache for the server with the constant dumping and pulling of gill and participate numbers going around and around and I can already see a FC pooling a bunch into a single plot to get people to pull out so only they are the ones bidding. Look, no matter what you do at this point your odds are basically the same. Only real chance you had is if you did what I did and roll on a house right out of the gate where there were only like 8 bids. Also, you're not even done with MSQ and are new not even in the FC. This kind of stuff is, despite being introduced at level 15, an end game thing that people try at after years of playing. Not to say you can't participate but you'd be better investing your time in the main game first.

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There are no rules to say you have to be in end game to buy a house. You can buy a house as soon as you hit level 50 and 2nd Lieutenant GC rank. Some people will go for a house as soon as they reach that even before beating ARR. There are people who don't care about the fighting aspects of the game and only want the social aspects like housing, glans and RP. They can do that if they want.

It's cute that people think that adding new worlds/wards will either mitigate the housing issue/fix it.

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Originally Posted by Wolfenrir

It's cute that people think that adding new worlds/wards will either mitigate the housing issue/fix it.

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If the active player base were to stop growing in size and SE were to take a hardline stance when it comes to enforcing ownership limitations, it potentially could.

A lot of players have been sharing personal entry counts from their worlds. Once you take into account all the empty FC plots that could be used to satisfy personal demand and the amount of demand being generated by relocation not new purchase, most worlds seem to be in the 1200-1500 range for unmet personal demand. 15 additional wards plus subdivision would meet that demand and add in a small cushion for demand among those still working to meet purchase requirements (again, this is assuming there is no overall growth in the active player base)

But we're probably going to see continuing growth in the player base and SE is highly unlikely to bother enforcing the spirit of their rules so for now you're correct. It's not going to fix the problem. It would mitigate the problem to some degree but never enough to satisfy everyone.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

There will be more housing. NA and EU have entire new worlds coming online later this year.

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So people are just suppose to give up their friends and families on a data center because housing is available in new worlds? No, they need to fix this housing fiasco once and for all. It's been an issue since 2.0 and increasingly has become worse every expansion as FFXIV has grown a lot. I feel a lot of problems can be resolved if they swapped to instanced housing for personals and let FC's have wards since personal are typically used for private use if y'know what I mean... Anyways, that's just my take on it.

They should also probs turn on auto demo and keep it on, it's not a popular opinion but what else are we to do?

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Originally Posted by LailaTov

I believe that with limited housing plots, a lottery system for private housing is the only fair way. HOWEVER, I FINALLY got the opportunity to enter a lottery when it went live again today, clicking on a plot that only had 1 other participant at the time. A few hours later it has 10 already. By the time the lottery ends, who knows how many it will have? Suddenly that shady plot up in the corner is looking pretty attractive to me with 1 bid on it - I wish I could pull out of the original bid and switch to a plot I have a better chance of getting. .

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Simple solution: wait and bid closer to the end of the bidding period. The house isn't going anywhere during that period of time. Anyway, all private plots have ridiculous amounts of bids atm.

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Originally Posted by OniKimoto

So people are just suppose to give up their friends and families on a data center because housing is available in new worlds? No, they need to fix this housing fiasco once and for all. It's been an issue since 2.0 and increasingly has become worse every expansion as FFXIV has grown a lot. I feel a lot of problems can be resolved if they swapped to instanced housing for personals and let FC's have wards since personal are typically used for private use if y'know what I mean... Anyways, that's just my take on it.

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*nudge* *nudge*
Crossworld Travel, Crossworld Linkshells, Crossworld Groups. DC Travel in a few weeks.

Add instanced housing.

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Originally Posted by XiaoShengwu

want better chances? wait til last day of bidding. walk around wards, and mark down which plots are getting the most bids, and avoid them.

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And level an alt or seven. Although each account can own only one personal house on each world, you can place as many bids on a plot as you have qualified (level 50, 2nd Lt.) characters. My spouse placed three bids on a small plot in Shiragane last round (out of 50 total on that plot) and won it.

[I am not sure what happens if each alt bids on a separate plot; since you can't win more than one, it doesn't help your odds to do so.]

My own long-term campaign to get a personal medium has me:

1. leveling three new alts right now, in addition to the three I already have qualified, and
2. putting a hold on my spending on glamour, since I'll need the gil for the bids.

That last is important; I have single glamour plates that are worth more than a small plot.

Note however that whichever alt wins the plot will be the only one of that player's characters that can live in it: just as you can't send mail between alts, you can't make any of your other alts tenants of the personal house that one of them owns; this means that unless you open the house to the public, the non-owning alts cannot even enter it. So if your goal is to have a particular character own a house, multiple-bidding with multiple alts doesn't help.

However, it works for me, because I'm really getting the house for my spouse, and once I have it, the tenants will be four of my spouse's alts, who will have full privileges. I'll be a mainly-absentee landlord.

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Originally Posted by OniKimoto

So people are just suppose to give up their friends and families on a data center because housing is available in new worlds? No, they need to fix this housing fiasco once and for all. It's been an issue since 2.0 and increasingly has become worse every expansion as FFXIV has grown a lot. I feel a lot of problems can be resolved if they swapped to instanced housing for personals and let FC's have wards since personal are typically used for private use if y'know what I mean... Anyways, that's just my take on it.

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Having a house will or not will not affect your gaming quality and if your family and friends got one, why not become a tenant in theres and be allowed to decorate or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Yodada

*nudge* *nudge*
Crossworld Travel, Crossworld Linkshells, Crossworld Groups. DC Travel in a few weeks.

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What's the point of having a house on a dead world on a dead data center because everyone is using data center travel to be on a populated data center?

Can't visit your house when you're on the other data center. Can't check your retainers when you're on the other data center. Can't use FC chat when you're on another data center. Can't use linkshells when you're on another data center unless it's a cross world linkshell created on that data center. Can't sell items on another data center's marketboard.

On the flip side, can't talk to your friends on another data center when you're on your home world. Difficult to sell items on your home worlds because everyone is using data center travel to get to a world that has more supply and cheaper prices. Difficult to get a group together in party finder on your home world because everyone is using data center travel to get access to a more active party finder. Queue times for Duty Finder on your home world are long because everyone is going to another data center for faster queue times.

SE is making a mistake by not mixing new worlds with existing worlds when the new NA data center opens. I know many Materia players are unhappy with the state of Materia but they've got one advantage - lack of data center travel means they have incentive to work together and rely on each other to build up their community. Those players going to the new NA data center have no such incentive when they can use data center travel to get to the worlds that have the communities they already belong to.

What's the point of having a house on a world you almost never see because you're always playing on a different data center?

It would be really nice to be able to cancel any housing bid, personal or FC, within the first 24 hours of it being placed and get a full refund of the deposit. That gives time for people to discussed the plot location, realize they've made a mistake and correct it, or to counter a malicious attempt to mess with an FC's housing location.

They could even issue you a certificate for the amount that can be placed on another bid during the housing period, and then you could wait out the lottery for the refund.

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Originally Posted by free_magick

It would be really nice to be able to cancel any housing bid, personal or FC, within the first 24 hours of it being placed and get a full refund of the deposit. That gives time for people to discussed the plot location, realize they've made a mistake and correct it, or to counter a malicious attempt to mess with an FC's housing location.

They could even issue you a certificate for the amount that can be placed on another bid during the housing period, and then you could wait out the lottery for the refund.

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Unfortunately it'd just be abused. Though I think it wouldn't be such a bad thing to allow a bid to be retracted within the first half hour to an hour after placing it. Just for the folks who steamroll through all the warnings and accidentally bid on an FC house when they mean to bid on personal and vice versa.

Assuming a dead server - or data center - will stay dead forever is an assumption that has burned people countless times before in this game alone, and it appears that it's going to burn people yet again.

We know what queues look like during a highly popular expansion release. We know what DC travel looks like under high-load situations. We know SE will gladly leave servers locked for years if it meets their load balancing needs. And we know that the people who blink late during these scenarios tend to wind up with the least.

So envision the plausible worst-case scenarios: another year+ of the server being locked, another year+ of autodemo trickles being the only housing supply and even smalls being triple-digit bids - or even being frozen again!, the 6+ hour queues on your server when 7.0 hits potentially rising towards 12+ hours as people discover new tricks to stay connected, DC travel functionally impossible in *or* out for a month+ due to local load.

Are all your friends already with you on your server, much less your DC? Do you intend to bring anyone new to the game? Does any one of those worst case scenarios sound like something you don't really want to deal with or make you second-guess your decision to sit in place, especially with the lure of potentially owning a house uncontested on the table? Because the history of this game has shown one thing to hold true: if you think you're going to blink at all, it's in your personal interest to blink early.

Well only way can agree to cancel the bid is that you cancel it and you can't do another bid before next round is up, else you will see bids crowd surfing everywhere.

I'm ok with canceling the bid as long its at least 48h before the end of the entry cycle.

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Originally Posted by Pratini

I'm ok with canceling the bid as long its at least 48h before the end of the entry cycle.

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People would just wait until that 48h period to see which plots have the least bids after some of the bids have vanished. And at that point they can't withdraw their own bid anymore and we would see the same complaints.

The system is fine as it is. The generation that never read a single book cover to cover just has to gather some patience and read the pop up, the ward and plot numbers and the size of the house they are bidding on. Then look at the map one more time and make sure they are in the right ward/subward and the sunset is where they want it to be (west). Then place the bid, and write down the address and the end of the bidding cycle.