Tale of Emet [FF14 x Nier Reincarnation event story]

A rather interesting FF14 lore video showing Emet's entire journey and view during his time before establishing Garlemald from the new Nier Reincarnation event for FF14. We can even see how Emet see the souls of those fragmented through his soul color seeing powers in one of the images.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC0U_aTv0EI

So what do you think about this lore summary of Emet's life?

Omg this part where he's walking past them:

"Unnngh...Aaah..."

Pitiful moaning of malformed creatures...

They can no longer shape words.
Language, culture, knowledge--forgotten....


Decades... Centuries... Millennia pass.

As he works tirelessly,
the wretched creatures begin to learn.


Just makes me feel even worse. And the fact that he had to watch all of that for so long, from them not even being able to form words to learning how to do the most basic things...just terrifying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OhNooo

Omg this part where he's walking past them:

"Unnngh...Aaah..."

Pitiful moaning of malformed creatures...

They can no longer shape words.
Language, culture, knowledge--forgotten....


Decades... Centuries... Millennia pass.

As he works tirelessly,
the wretched creatures begin to learn.


Just makes me feel even worse. And the fact that he had to watch all of that for so long, from them not even being able to form words to learning how to do the most basic things...just terrifying.

---

ya and this part of the lore video reveals the critical lore that it was Emet that taught the current races to speak. He even went far as to educate them with other things as well which eventually lead to learning and making their own languages, history, religion, and etc.

Considering Emet was the only one willing to give the sunder souls a chance, this speaks alot about how much he literally affected and created the current world of FF14 and the Shards. The other members of the Ascians were not even interested in attempting to interact with the sundered and only focused on rejoining the world.

Yes and this part:

Back curled under exhaustion.
Sigh harmonic to a heavy countenance.

Before him stands a cluster of miscreants.

Gaze shrewd enough to pierce the spirit,
the man spots a familiar hue...

The precise color of an old friend's soul.
A broken relic of paradise.

But he has already passed an eternity
with hope and grief.

He has watched them die. Forgotten them.

Now, he simply does what can be done.

Grasping the last wisp of a dream
that stubbornly fails to fade.

A long player in this tale of the star--
his monologue an elegy.

Sounds like it's saying all these millenia have passed and this is the first time he saw this familiar hue? If so that's even more tragic...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

ya and this part of the lore video reveals the critical lore that it was Emet that taught the current races to speak. He even went far as to educate them with other things as well which eventually lead to learning and making their own languages, history, religion, and etc.

---

Was this said in one of the weapons?

Well, if Ishikawa wrote this it further supports my suspicion that she was asked to change the story of EW to be more favorable to Hydaelyn because this makes the sundering look like the crime against mankind many of us thought it was.

Others have posted the results of the sundering, I'll simply add:

Quote:

---

In the simplest of ways, they die and die.

---

This blows a hole through the arguments that the sundering wasn't a genocide. I also couldn't help but notice the 'shattered souls' were in the shapes of modern day races, so it would seem Varis' account of events was correct despite Yoshi-P's bizarre theory of evolution.

It also manages to make Emet more tragic and Hydaelyn more villainous, just when you thought neither were possible. :P I'm glad they restated the fight between Hydaelyn and Zodiark went on for "days without end" as a fair amount of people were still taking that post-Elpis cutscene as an accurate depiction of events.

My nitpicks:

1) No mention that the sacrifices to Zodiark were voluntary, that's important context.
2) "Paradise" is used too liberally, it basically just describes a man wanting to return to happier times with his friends.
3) I'm forever going to be irked by the Light & Dark contrast because sacrificing lives to a "dark god" sounds ominous while "light triumphs" sounds victorious until, again, you have context of the two.

I've said before that EW didn't feel like the spiritual successor to ShB, that it seemed like Ishikawa was setting up a foundation for a different build. This crossover fits within the framework of ShB.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Was this said in one of the weapons?

---

The dialogue after the line OhNooo quote will mention this...

" Decades... Centuries... Millennia pass.

He works tirelessly.
the wretched creatures begin to learn.

They speak in new tongues.
They worship new gods.
They forge new histories."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Was this said in one of the weapons?

---

Nope! The weapon story about Emet is this one:

https://i.imgur.com/iIL5Kp9.png

No indication that he taught anybody anything.

EDIT: The part of the story doesn't say that his work was at all related to teaching them. In fact it's pretty clear that he kinda loathes that development. We know his work was the Calamities, not teaching anybody anything.

The other weapon stories are about Estinien, as well as the nameless wielders of Shadowbringer and Thyrus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

The dialogue after the line OhNooo quote will mention this...

" Decades... Centuries... Millennia pass.

He works tirelessly.
the wretched creatures begin to learn.

They speak in new tongues.
They worship new gods.
They forge new histories."

---

I don’t think it’s saying he taught them then, the work was restoring the Ancients not teaching the broken remnants. If anything it sounds like he was disgusted that they’d move on, that they’d learn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cleretic

Nope! The weapon story about Emet is this one:

https://i.imgur.com/iIL5Kp9.png

No indication that he taught anybody anything.

---

Ah thank ya thank ya for the reference! That forge ahead at the end though, I see you Ishikawa

When you just survived a devastating calamity. You wake up and your parents, siblings, aunts/uncles, grandparents and friends are gone but there's a bunch of malformed creatures stumbling around moaning; they can't form words, and don't know who they are or who you are. Guess you just gotta....


Forge Ahead ™

https://i.imgur.com/jItI7UR.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vestiges of Paradise, Part 1

Long, long ago, in an age now past, this star was as paradise.

Men knew naught of fear, loss, despair...

With lifetimes unto eternity, their days were peaceful and bright.

-----

Of its magic were born myriad creations.

Mankind's spires towered proud, their stones never to crumble.

Even the dark of night would softly smile to see the shining crystal nestled within.

-----

Within those walls, the people laughed and loved to their hearts' content.

-----

A solitary man stands in the street.

His robes are black, as is the custom.
Only the mask concealing his face differs from the other's in shape and color.

It marks this man as a leader.
He is a most powerful mage.

-----

"Early as always, I see."

Beside the man, a companion appears.
A beloved and trusted friend.

Soon, another will arrive, and the trio will revel until dawn.

Just as they have time and time again.

----

This age, now long past...

will always be his paradise.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vestiges of Paradise, Part 2

The end arrives all too suddenly.

-----

Calamity swallows the star.

Meteors rain in cataclysmic deluge as if to scour away all life.

Land buckles; cities burn; blood flows.

-----

The powerful mage and his clever fellows create a god that will stabilize the star.

...Sacrificing half of mankind to do it.

The dark god they birth does its work.

-----

When the danger has passed, the people gaze upon their ruined world.

"We must put this right."
"We shall return to paradise."

They further sacrifice unto their god.

-----

Yet some would oppose them...

"We must move forward."
"What's done is done; the future awaits."

These souls create a brighter god to challenge the others' dark deity.

-----

The gods clash for days without end.

At last, the Light of the future-the bright god emerges victorious.

-----

The decisive blow is so strong, it sunders both Darkness and the star...

-----

Thus does one world become fourteen.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vestiges of Paradise, Part 3

Unnngh... Aaah...

Pitiful moaning of malformed creatures...

They can no longer shape words.
Language, culture, knowledge-forgotten.

-----

Such an outcome is unbearable.

The man throws himself into restoring his star, his people... his paradise.

-----

Decades... Centuries... Millennia pass.

As he works tirelessly, the wretched creatures begin to learn.

They speak in new tongues.
They worship new gods.
They forge new histories.

-----

He looks upon this and is repulsed.

These wretches are fragile and weak.
They can barely comprehend magic.

Ignorant, intolerant, misbegotten husks.
Fighting each other without aim or end.

Their pitiable lives are fleeting.
In the simplest of ways, they die and die.

-----

Yet they claim the mantle of "mankind"?

He looks upon this and is repulsed.

No matter what he does...
No matter how much time passes...

The hatred and heartbreak remain.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vestiges of Paradise, Part 4

Long, long years have passed since the star and its people were sundered...

Yet the man still lives...

Still fights to reclaim his paradise.

-----

At times, he mingles with the wretches, assuming false names and false lives.

Today is no different.
With borrowed eyes, he scorns the world.

-----

Back curled under exhaustion.
Sigh harmonic to a heavy countenance.

Before him stands a cluster of miscreants.

Gaze shrewd enough to pierce the spirit, the man spots a familiar hue...

The precise color of an old friend's soul.
A broken relic of paradise...

-----

But he has already passed an eternity with hope and grief.

He has watched them die. Forgotten them.

-----

Now, he simply does what can be done.

Grasping the last wisp of a dream that stubbornly fails to fade.

-----

A lone player in this tale of the star - his monologue an elegy.

---

Transcript of the video, let me know if I missed anything.

Quote:

---

"Unnngh...Aaah..."

Pitiful moaning of malformed creatures...

They can no longer shape words.
Language, culture, knowledge--forgotten....

---

Even though that is inarguably what has been written, it doesn't sit right with me, because we have demonstratable proof that they were not so thoroughly reduced to unintelligibity – specifically, the paintings in the Qitana Ravel.

Either people retained both enough memory and artistic skill to record these images as first-generation Sundered, or they possessed the ability to retell it to their children and pass it into legend.

If they were truly reduced to nothing of their former selves, that story could not have survived.

At worst, they could have been in a situation where they had lost language but retained intelligence – but is it alternately possible that Emet, being still unsundered, simply perceives it as thinned down compared to himself? As if everything that was once solid has turned to smoke, voices muted to the slightest whisper? But perhaps it doesn't seem quite the same way to those caught up in it.

It just doesn't add up – and while it's not the first time that Emet's account in Shadowbringers has been contradicted, this time it is another story from his own perspective and not someone else's conflicting understanding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Even though that is inarguably what has been written, it doesn't sit right with me, because we have demonstratable proof that they were not so thoroughly reduced to unintelligibity – specifically, the paintings in the Qitana Ravel.

Either people retained both enough memory and artistic skill to record these images as first-generation Sundered, or they possessed the ability to retell it to their children and pass it into legend.

If they were truly reduced to nothing of their former selves, that story could not have survived.

At worst, they could have been in a situation where they had lost language but retained intelligence – but is it alternately possible that Emet, being still unsundered, simply perceives it as thinned down compared to himself? As if everything that was once solid has turned to smoke, voices muted to the slightest whisper? But perhaps it doesn't seem quite the same way to those caught up in it.

It just doesn't add up – and while it's not the first time that Emet's account in Shadowbringers has been contradicted, this time it is another story from his own perspective and not someone else's conflicting understanding.

---

could be that anything less than pre sundering automatically looks less than human and any precieved intelligence is ignored.
edit: or it could be a largely non canon story written for another game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Even though that is inarguably what has been written, it doesn't sit right with me, because we have demonstratable proof that they were not so thoroughly reduced to unintelligibity – specifically, the paintings in the Qitana Ravel.

---

Y'shtola says the paintings predate the Ronkan empire, but I don't remember how long ago that was nor do I recall mention of how much they predate it. However, memories are etched upon the aether of the soul, so they could have been painted at any point after the sundering. Perhaps they were dreaming about it like Zenos was or a shooting star triggered a memory.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rulakir

Y'shtola says the paintings predate the Ronkan empire, but I don't remember how long ago that was nor do I recall mention of how much they predate it. However, memories are etched upon the aether of the soul, so they could have been painted at any point after the sundering. Perhaps they were dreaming about it like Zenos was or a shooting star triggered a memory.

---

They remembered clearly enough to know of Zodiark, a god Venat was trying to hide, and Hydaelyn herself. Emet says it was just fragments and fleeting memories so not enough to fully remember but enough to know some things.

And I really do have to stress that Sundering meant the loss of the echo, which was almost certainly important to language development. The fact that all the shades talks to us in those odd noises, even when it’s a recording, should probably indicate that speaking with them is weird. Put it with the loss of creation magicks and the impact that had on prehistoric tool development I say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Even though that is inarguably what has been written, it doesn't sit right with me, because we have demonstratable proof that they were not so thoroughly reduced to unintelligibity – specifically, the paintings in the Qitana Ravel.

Either people retained both enough memory and artistic skill to record these images as first-generation Sundered, or they possessed the ability to retell it to their children and pass it into legend.

If they were truly reduced to nothing of their former selves, that story could not have survived.

At worst, they could have been in a situation where they had lost language but retained intelligence – but is it alternately possible that Emet, being still unsundered, simply perceives it as thinned down compared to himself? As if everything that was once solid has turned to smoke, voices muted to the slightest whisper? But perhaps it doesn't seem quite the same way to those caught up in it.

It just doesn't add up – and while it's not the first time that Emet's account in Shadowbringers has been contradicted, this time it is another story from his own perspective and not someone else's conflicting understanding.

---

The exact wording used in this is stuff we've only ever seen from Emet's own perspective--in the soul crystal in Etched in the Stars, and in the Tales from the Shadows story with a bit of him as Solus. So this isn't an impartial external narrator, it's a third-party telling of Emet-Selch's perspective.

Meaning that it's not that they literally didn't know anything and couldn't say anything, it's that they fell below Emet's bar of 'being people'--a bar that even the Garleans didn't actually get over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EaraGrace

The fact that all the shades talks to us in those odd noises, even when it’s a recording, should probably indicate that speaking with them is weird.

---

It always bothered me that ancients in Elpis did not speak in squeaky door language...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Even though that is inarguably what has been written, it doesn't sit right with me, because we have demonstratable proof that they were not so thoroughly reduced to unintelligibity – specifically, the paintings in the Qitana Ravel.

Either people retained both enough memory and artistic skill to record these images as first-generation Sundered, or they possessed the ability to retell it to their children and pass it into legend.

If they were truly reduced to nothing of their former selves, that story could not have survived.

At worst, they could have been in a situation where they had lost language but retained intelligence – but is it alternately possible that Emet, being still unsundered, simply perceives it as thinned down compared to himself? As if everything that was once solid has turned to smoke, voices muted to the slightest whisper? But perhaps it doesn't seem quite the same way to those caught up in it.

It just doesn't add up – and while it's not the first time that Emet's account in Shadowbringers has been contradicted, this time it is another story from his own perspective and not someone else's conflicting understanding.

---

It doesn't really feel like a big mystery. You don't need knowledge to do basic art; even someone with 0 experience can smear a very rough image, like what you see in the cave paintings, just by recognition and imitation.

Language, on the other hand, requires knowledge. Anthropologists actually believe that painting predates complex speech. https://www.inverse.com/article/4151...uage-evolution

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lurina

It doesn't really feel like a big mystery. You don't need knowledge to do basic art; even someone with 0 experience can smear a very rough image, like what you see in the cave paintings, just by recognition and imitation.

Language, on the other hand, requires knowledge. Anthropologists actually believe that painting predates complex speech. https://www.inverse.com/article/4151...uage-evolution

---

In the same room with the murals, in the same scene they’re revealed, Emet-Selch said that the memory of the Sundering was passed down in “song and scripture and paint”, which implies language.

While I can accept the revelations in NieR as canon, I also believe that Emet-Selch is also an unreliable narrator and like his Tales from the Shadows, he views the Sundered as not-people so his take on things is going to be colored by that perception.

The NieR tale isn’t a lore dump, it’s a story told by one person from their point of view. Just as a lot of people disagree with Venat’s point of view and how it was presented, the same could be said of Emet-Selch’s.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

In the same room with the murals, in the same scene they’re revealed, Emet-Selch said that the memory of the Sundering was passed down in “song and scripture and paint”, which implies language.

While I can accept the revelations in NieR as canon, I also believe that Emet-Selch is also an unreliable narrator and like his Tales from the Shadows, he views the Sundered as not-people so his take on things is going to be colored by that perception.

The NieR tale isn’t a lore dump, it’s a story told by one person from their point of view. Just as a lot of people disagree with Venat’s point of view and how it was presented, the same could be said of Emet-Selch’s.

---

Paint comes first, then the other two.

I don't really think you can argue unreliable narrator for a situation where the script directly quotes the grunts and moans of the people without the knowledge to speak. More to the point, if they weren't speaking a tongue Emet could understand, that means it was certain the "first generation" Sundered didn't have language. They take generations to develop; a new one wouldn't just appear spontaneously for him to then be ignorant of.

Though, the writers could just have a loose or divided understanding of the facts themselves, obviously.

Bit odd that Emet claims to instantly recognize who his old friend is here, yet he was absolutely flabbergasted when he catches a glimpse of Azem's identity after the rejoining with Ardbert during the final fight in Amaurot. I wouldn't have expected him to deliberately create a plan to turn one of his closest friends into a monster and gloat over them as they're transforming. That entire scene reads very differently.

"They worship new gods." Guess this means the Twelve did not exist back then? I really hope some serious lore will come from 24-man raids (unlike Nier...)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyth

Bit odd that Emet claims to instantly recognize who his old friend is here, yet he was absolutely flabbergasted when he catches a glimpse of Azem's identity after the rejoining with Ardbert during the final fight in Amaurot. I wouldn't have expected him to deliberately create a plan to turn one of his closest friends into a monster and gloat over them as they're transforming. That entire scene reads very differently.

---

He doesn't see the sundered as people, it's part of how he justifies doing what he does.

Recognizing that one of the sundered he meets is a reincarnation of an old friend puts a chink in that armor though, the plan came across as a test, but a test that the WoL was probably meant to fail, Emet's end goal seems to be to reassure himself that he's right about the sundered.

We pass in the end though, knocking down a fairly important strut shoring up his worldview in the process. He rants and raves and refuses to accept it, we fight, we kick his butt, he concedes (sort of.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lurina

Paint comes first, then the other two.

---

I presented the quote exactly how it was in the game: “song and scripture and paint”.

Other than that, it’s just conjecture as to when the memories of the Sundering were preserved and in what order. I took it from the context of when Ryne asked if he recognized the scenes on the mural to mean the people who woke up right after the Sundering in the first generation. It would be silly to suggest people born after to remember something they weren’t present for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Emet-Selch

That I do. Indeed, there was a time when anyone and everyone would. Until one calamitous day when the world was divided across ten and three reflections, sundering the land and all who dwelled upon it. And the worst part? No one could remember it. Not really. Just fragments and fleeting memories of an achingly familiar world... A vision shared of a paradise lost, preserved only in song and scripture and paint... Once upon a time. Yet here we find ourselves again. To look, learn, and remember...

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lurina

I don't really think you can argue unreliable narrator for a situation where the script directly quotes the grunts and moans of the people without the knowledge to speak. More to the point, if they weren't speaking a tongue Emet could understand, that means it was certain the "first generation" Sundered didn't have language. They take generations to develop; a new one wouldn't just appear spontaneously for him to then be ignorant of.

Though, the writers could just have a loose or divided understanding of the facts themselves, obviously.

---

That script is still from his own point of view and the context we see is also him walking among what looks like spirits who haven’t materialized, not cavemen. The link you provided also says in the very first line that it took 100,000 years after humanity emerged for language to be created while in Final Fantasy XIV we’re on a much smaller timeline of a couple thousand years at best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I presented the quote exactly how it was in the game: “song and scripture and paint”.

---

I wasn't saying your quote was wrong, I was just suggesting a literal order of how it might've happened to make both sources congruous. Apologies if I was confusing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

That script is still from his own point of view and the context we see is also him walking among what looks like spirits who haven’t materialized, not cavemen. The link you provided also says in the very first line that it took 100,000 years after humanity emerged for language to be created while in Final Fantasy XIV we’re on a much smaller timeline of a couple thousand years at best.

---

My point is that it couldn't have happened instantly, not the timescale. The fact that Emet cannot understand them indicates that they are not speaking the Ancient language. Thus, there must have been a period where they had lost the knowledge or ability to do so, but had not yet developed a replacement. Even if he failed to realize immediately when they eventually did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lurina

The fact that Emet cannot understand them indicates that they are not speaking the Ancient language. Thus, there must have been a period where they had lost the knowledge or ability to do so, but had not yet developed a replacement. Even if he failed to realize immediately when they eventually did.

---

Them not speaking Ancient language should not impede someone who has echo. The only case where we couldn't understand language was Alpha, who had no soul.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Erendis

Them not speaking Ancient language should not impede someone who has echo. The only case where we couldn't understand language was Alpha, who had no soul.

---

That's even more of an argument that they had no language for a while, then. You can't turn on your soul's auto-translate if there's nothing to translate to begin with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Erendis

"They worship new gods." Guess this means the Twelve did not exist back then? I really hope some serious lore will come from 24-man raids (unlike Nier...)

---

The first raid story mentioned they only started being worshipped after the Calamities weakened the veil between their realm and the Source due to people starting to see them so it is reasonable that the twelve religion did not start during the early days after the sundering. It probably took multiple Calamities before the Twelve religion fully formed which from this lore video about Emet we see may have taken thousands to millions of years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyth

Bit odd that Emet claims to instantly recognize who his old friend is here, yet he was absolutely flabbergasted when he catches a glimpse of Azem's identity after the rejoining with Ardbert during the final fight in Amaurot. I wouldn't have expected him to deliberately create a plan to turn one of his closest friends into a monster and gloat over them as they're transforming. That entire scene reads very differently.

---

To me it looks like he recognises Azem's soul hue in the same scene from Shadowbringers, well before Ardbert rejoins us.

Shadowbringers:

https://i.imgur.com/mIaembA.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/or4iVRO.png

Same scene from Nier:

https://i.imgur.com/ADUhC0a.png

https://i.imgur.com/w4JMdX3.png

https://i.imgur.com/3haGHtr.png

Perhaps he did know. Perhaps his reaction to eighth rejoining was because the sundered mankind inched closer to equal footing with the ancients, rather than him just seeing a glance of Azem.

Emet must have known that one day he'd have to deal with the sundered Azem. He probably figured that Azem would never allow rejoinings to happen, and would end up successfully convincing Emet to change his mind and course. Azem wouldn't be an ally and trying to convince them to join the Ascian cause would be useless. Thus, the only way to deal with the sundered Azem was to unleash havoc on them. Perhaps his monstrous approach, his role as a megalomaniac villain, him succumbing to madness was a deliberate choice to take the edge off killing the sundered Azem (multiple times). At that point it must've been easier to deal with madness rather than the grief over a sundered's old friends misery and the doubt that would inflict on his goals.

But I feel like this might be too farfetched, and the Nier story isn't fully canon, or this portion is just being interpreted wrong.

Quote:

---

But I feel like this might be too farfetched, and the Nier story isn't fully canon, or this portion is just being interpreted wrong.

---

my interpretation is this is how emet saw things but its not what really happened.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sidurgu-12

my interpretation is this is how emet saw things but its not what really happened.

---

Sounds like an event similar then to that of a certain walk….*CUE THE ANSWERS THEME*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sidurgu-12

my interpretation is this is how emet saw things but its not what really happened.

---

Nothing revealed contradicts what we've learned from characters other than Emet himself, though. We already learned all of this back in Shadowbringers.

At any rate, I think it fits in nicely with the idea of Venat being a Satan/Lucifer type figure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cleretic

The exact wording used in this is stuff we've only ever seen from Emet's own perspective--in the soul crystal in Etched in the Stars, and in the Tales from the Shadows story with a bit of him as Solus. So this isn't an impartial external narrator, it's a third-party telling of Emet-Selch's perspective.

Meaning that it's not that they literally didn't know anything and couldn't say anything, it's that they fell below Emet's bar of 'being people'--a bar that even the Garleans didn't actually get over.

---

Leave it to you to twist it into emet's fault. Like Lurina said, if he who possess the echo couldn't understand what the sundered said, then it means the sundered doesn't have language to translate to. The echo wouldn't stop working just because we speak to what we deemed as lesser being.

The story is consistent with what we've seen before, if you take it at face value as a creation myth. It's the Greek Titanomachy meets Eden meets Babel. Cronus' golden age ends with the Olympians overthrowing the Titans after a long battle and casting them out, with the Titans subsequently endlessly scheming on how to return to their former glory. Just gods being gods. Even the titanic struggle between Light and Dark was drawn out much more emphatically this time around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyth

The story is consistent with what we've seen before, if you take it at face value as a creation myth. It's the Greek Titanomachy meets Eden meets Babel. Cronus' golden age ends with the Olympians overthrowing the Titans after a long battle and casting them out, with the Titans subsequently endlessly scheming on how to return to their former glory. Just gods being gods. Even the titanic struggle between Light and Dark was drawn out much more emphatically this time around.

---

Yoshi-P and the other story writers of FF14 do love the story of FF14 to be a greek tragedy.

Who knows what he and the other story writers may have planned for season 2 with this kind of love for this type of story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Yoshi-P and the other story writers of FF14 do love the story of FF14 to be a greek tragedy.

Who knows what he and the other story writers may have planned for season 2 with this kind of love for this type of story.

---

Clearly, we must go Norse and have Ragnarok. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kozh

Leave it to you to twist it into emet's fault. Like Lurina said, if he who possess the echo couldn't understand what the sundered said, then it means the sundered doesn't have language to translate to. The echo wouldn't stop working just because we speak to what we deemed as lesser being.

---

Per the Eorzea Encyclopdia:

Quote:

---

For those blessed with the power to transcend words, language no longer poses a barrier to intercultural communication. Voiced utterances fade and are replaced by an internal understanding of another's intentions.

---

Either Emet-Selch didn’t care enough, or the writers are changing the lore again. Both are probably true.

We’re able to communicate with a “smarter than average” troll that read a book but is still grunting and grrr-ing so I find it hard to believe the the newly sundered Ancients came out less evolved than a troll who discovered “language” on his own and taught himself to read. We can also understand that specific troll, but not other trolls, but that specific troll can talk to other trolls, implying that they have their own language the Echo doesn’t work on.

There’s also the Mandragora, who have their own language and culture that’s indecipherable to both us and the Ancients.

But previously the Echo was stated to connect souls together so that one may understand the other. If one with the Echo is unable to make a connection with someone else, they won’t understand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

...

---

The Titanomachy isn't a tragedy, though. The Greek gods aren't good or evil in the strict sense of the word. It's like trying to accuse a hurricane of being immoral. They do what they want and you try to stay out of their way, or you team up with a stronger god to take them on. Do I feel bad for Cronus? Not really, he knew how the game was played and he overthrew his own father, just as the Olympians later overthrew him. Do I feel bad for Emet? No, he all had a lifetime of being on the Convocation and was always willing to play the game with other people's lives to get what he wanted. That's just how they were. Turns out, he simply got outplayed by a savvier god, and in fairness, he was a good sport about it in the end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fiel_Tana

To me it looks like he recognises Azem's soul hue in the same scene from Shadowbringers, well before Ardbert rejoins us.

Shadowbringers:

https://i.imgur.com/mIaembA.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/or4iVRO.png

Same scene from Nier:

https://i.imgur.com/ADUhC0a.png

https://i.imgur.com/w4JMdX3.png

https://i.imgur.com/3haGHtr.png

---

I did enjoy this moment since it gives a bit more insight to what Emet was feeling during this time in Shadowbringer. A sad moment for certain since at this point he is already broken to a point despite recognizing Azem's soul fragment in WoL, he cannot see him other than just a broken soul from a time long past. When you pair this to the moment in the end of Shadowbringer when he finally see WoL as Azem, it reflects how a part of him actually did accept WoL as the new Azem due to how similar they are but his grief before this moment blinded him on a single path.