What if Shield Bash were aoe stun ogcd? (NOT pvp)

What if bois, what if?

Would be a decent dungeon trash mit for early tanking.

https://www.wikihow.com/images/thumb...tep-6.jpg.webp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DanielNegreanu_Adamantoise

What if bois, what if?

Would be a decent dungeon trash mit for early tanking.

https://www.wikihow.com/images/thumb...tep-6.jpg.webp

---

I would honestly be fine if it was just oGCD in general, the skill feels useless as it is.

I am surprised it hasn't been Axed yet like yeah it strong in ARR when some bosses can be stunned but also just ARR stuff so not really a big deal.

personally id like shield bash just to become a 2 charge damage OGCD and just take the damage off the gap closer

The only use it really has is the specific niche case in higher deep dungeon floors where you run into a mimic, or other actually dangerous mobs, while your oGCDs are disabled, that's pretty much it.

No Lets say we didnt and move on

Wouldn't change much unless encounter design is changed for pld. The only tank that would benefit from an AoE stun at the moment is probably DRK due to their lack of self sustain, which they'd do better with just better self sustain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seku

Wouldn't change much unless encounter design is changed for pld. The only tank that would benefit from an AoE stun at the moment is probably DRK due to their lack of self sustain, which they'd do better with just better self sustain.

---

? would be a pretty big boon in earlier content, remember pre-EW content exists.
And it would never stop being useful in trash pulls, would be free mit like a super arms length

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DanielNegreanu_Adamantoise

? would be a pretty big boon in earlier content, remember pre-EW content exists.
And it would never stop being useful in trash pulls, would be free mit like a super arms length

---

Wouldn't be a pretty big boon at all. Tanks take little damage and healers can near hp cap a tank in 1 GCD at lower end content. Would it be useful in trash packs? Yeah. Would it really change much as to how you'd pull and currently play current and old content? No.

Would it save the healer time and allow them to dps? In theory yes. In reality probably not because no one coronadites trash pulls and a general strategy is used instead. This is the same reason why Living dead sucked in dungeons.

Shield bash and Cover both should be removed from the game as Low Blow and Interception have mostly replaced them. This would lower "button bloat".

The only thing that needs to change on PLD is the weird conditions to gain access to our party mitigation tools and allowing us to benefit from out Divine Veil shielding and not just the party. A larger goal would be to actually increase the amount of shielding from DV to be on par with base Shake if off from warrior.

Back in the day when PLD brought little to no damage in AoE I suggested they keep it a GCD but make it an AoE stun. Essentially the PLD would fill the role of the WHMs holy in any party that doesn’t have a WHM so the healer can dps more while the PLD stuns and clemencies.

I still think it’s a nice idea but PLD has since become a lot more powerful in AoE to the point that it’s probably better for them to just use their rotation than gimp their damage for a stun lock.

Pld most useless skill, so yeah I'd agree. There isnt a single situation where you need two stuns back to back, and youd never use the GCD for one with Low Blow existing

Shield bash needed removing years ago. Honestly do not know how it is still in the game. It should have just been PLD OGCD stun, keep Brutal Swing for War and Low Blow for DRK. There was no reason for all the tanks to get the same move. Same goes for Rampart for PLS, Foresight [though change foresight to be all damage 20% unlike it's original] and Shadowskin for DRK. I really do not understand why we have to have the same move for all the tanks. Why not just give all 4 Tanks Holmgang then?

Pretty sure its going to be removed come 7.0

I dunno about it being an AoE, but I do find it weird that shield bash is on the GCD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seku

Wouldn't be a pretty big boon at all. Tanks take little damage and healers can near hp cap a tank in 1 GCD at lower end content. Would it be useful in trash packs? Yeah. Would it really change much as to how you'd pull and currently play current and old content? No.

Would it save the healer time and allow them to dps? In theory yes. In reality probably not because no one coronadites trash pulls and a general strategy is used instead. This is the same reason why Living dead sucked in dungeons.

Shield bash and Cover both should be removed from the game as Low Blow and Interception have mostly replaced them. This would lower "button bloat".

The only thing that needs to change on PLD is the weird conditions to gain access to our party mitigation tools and allowing us to benefit from out Divine Veil shielding and not just the party. A larger goal would be to actually increase the amount of shielding from DV to be on par with base Shake if off from warrior.

---

Shield Bash, I'll give you certainly. As long as it remains a GCD stun, it might as well not exist.

But Cover? Certainly not my good fellow. Intervention has not replaced what Cover can do in the slightest. Arguably, Cover needs some of the nerfs it received since Shadowbringers lifted:
A) removal of gauge cost and keeping it mitigation-free
B) re-add the Lv66 mitigation trait, but keep the value like -10% or -15%, while keeping the 50 Oath gauge cost

There are many ways in which way button "bloat" can be remedied, but I will sooner wish that the hell froze shut than to lose one of the last unique things about tanks in an attempt to cure button bloat.

Had a purpose back in ARR when some bosses were designed around having that spammable stun but the game isn't designed like that anymore and honestly should just be removed. Would rather have shield swipe back as an ogcd, that was fun.

I think SE is keeping it around also due to inadvertently making it also a 'signature ability' of PLD in promotional materials (namely, Derplander's roegadyn PLD friend Shield Bashes a Garlean soldier in the End of an Era/New Beginning trailer, and Derplander himself uses Shield Bash against a blasphemy in the EW opening), so it's clear SE themselves feel this ability has some 'connection' to the Job, regardless of how players may feel.

Funnily enough I find myself using Low Blow more nowadays, it's much faster and also I kind of got into a bad habit of not using Shield Bash due to it consuming so much TP in the old days (before TP was removed), so old habits die hard. I'll still make use of it though as a 'back up' Stun if Low Blow is still cooling down and I need to Stun something again quickly, so it definetely still does have an important part to play in a PLD's arsenal.

PLD used to have something like that. Shield Swipe was an ogcd that pacified a single target. It proc'd on block and was really niche since at the time you could only block physical, but at least raids accounted for this by having high/multi hitting physical tank busters. Ultimately its utility would fall straight into damage since cc has nothing no effect on raids and that is basically what everything boils down to in this game now, since its easier to balance damage than account for things like utility.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marxam

PLD used to have something like that. Shield Swipe was an ogcd that pacified a single target. It proc'd on block and was really niche since at the time you could only block physical, but at least raids accounted for this by having high/multi hitting physical tank busters. Ultimately its utility would fall straight into damage since cc has nothing no effect on raids and that is basically what everything boils down to in this game now, since its easier to balance damage than account for things like utility.

---

Shield Swipe had one more effect besides it's damage that was very useful in Stormblood, it generated increased enmity. This meant that once you established initial aggro with a warrior or dark knight and tank swapped to the paladin they had an easier time maintaining it by just doing dps.

I hope it's kept, its nice to tab target a pack of enemies during a pull and stunlock them if you don't have a WHM healer (i know its an edge use case but it'd be weird if we have a physical shield the way we do but no use for it in a GCD ability imo, as sheltron and it's upgrade look more like manifesting a spell shield [which isn't a bad thing]). I'd be fine with it's removal if there was a shield move (that doesn't necessarily stun) to replace it (Dragon's Dogma Mystic Knight various shield reprisal buffs come to mind) because otherwise it's just visually there proc'ing blocks every now and then when the class fantasy is sword and board. Like at least release a shield weaponskill where you just bash the enemy repeatedly (like WoL's Ultimate Shield attack from the Dissidia sub series).

yea kind of never use shield bash. hope they change it to oGCD that give def down debuff for 10s + stun lol

Just being ogcd would be a blessing. So useless right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Shield Bash, I'll give you certainly. As long as it remains a GCD stun, it might as well not exist.

But Cover? Certainly not my good fellow. Intervention has not replaced what Cover can do in the slightest. Arguably, Cover needs some of the nerfs it received since Shadowbringers lifted:
A) removal of gauge cost and keeping it mitigation-free
B) re-add the Lv66 mitigation trait, but keep the value like -10% or -15%, while keeping the 50 Oath gauge cost

There are many ways in which way button "bloat" can be remedied, but I will sooner wish that the hell froze shut than to lose one of the last unique things about tanks in an attempt to cure button bloat.

---

Your suggestions to fix cover still makes it a horrible version of Intervention and a backup with extremely niche uses at best currently. Also please show me where "Intervention has not replaced what cover can do in the slightest"

You suggest 10% or 15% reduction on cover with gauge cost when intervention gives you 20% mitigation that can be increased to 30% if rampart or sentinel is used and if timed correctly and a 250 pot regen. This means at worse, aka you messed the timing up, intervention provides an additional 5% mitigation and 250 pot regen if you used rampart or sentinel. If you didn't use rampart or sentinel it is even with your suggestion or 5% below with a 250 pot regen. If you used it correctly (which you should once you learn the fight and TB) intervention is almost always subjectively better, the exception being in cases where cover can circumvent a mechanic entirely. So suggestion B is dead on arrival

The only other times cover is good is if you're about to save someone from dying, which quickly gets overshadowed with learning the fight and dies off quickly as it holds no value beyond that currently in most situations. Also Intervention can achieve the exact same effect assuming the move won't 1 shot them, which random damage doesn't unless maybe in the highest tier of content. In which case we revert back to the first issue of everyone eventually learning the fight.

With nothing to spend gauge as the OT you're going to use intervention as it's the better move 99.9% of the time, even with your "fixes". Suggestion A dead on arrival.

Cover even with the 10-15% was mainly used as a method to protect the main tank, while you were the OT providing an extra cooldown which yet again...intervention has 100% replaced cover in this regard and every tank has now. So please show me where this "unique" button is ever used that was given out to the other tanks in slightly different ways. As TBN, Nascent Flash, and Heart of Corundum all do what cover, so much for it being "unique" other than you take the damage with cover, would have done in the past with the exception of a few situations where it was used in cheesed stragts and currently all out do cover, even with your "fix"

Let's now say option C. 10-15% mitigation, no gauge cost and is on a timer ( which really is all the gauge really is but only counts when in melee range), intervention is still better due to the fact and as stated earlier you have nothing to spend your gauge on as OT. Hopefully, you're not turning the boss and moving it out of position to try and save someone to get in range of cover while MTing.

The only way to "fix" cover would be to make it intervention, but you take the damage. Which ends up being just as useless as you just have the same thing twice and should in reality should just be PLD getting another mit, shielding, or OGCD as long as intervention exists as really all you've effectively done is attached Holy Shelton to cover.

TLDR;
Intervention has better mitigation if used correctly, a regen attached to it, and allows for the person that you're using it on to use their own mitigation tools and serves as the main function that cover was used for.

Cover sucks in every situation outside of cheesing mechanics.