Hotfixes delivery

Hi!

I understand you are used to have a strict content delivery with pre planned patches, etc. But if players don't see fast response on hotfixing and balancing PvP ranking model, we will get discouraged to keep playing.

I am used to play MOBAs and the difference is night and day, you can easily see 5 minor change patches per week in Dota2 and when a new Major patch arrives, you can even see multiple patches the same day.

I am not asking for that level of delivery, as the scope is much more smaller, but 1 patch in a month after the PvP revamp is not enough.

Please, consider recording stats by job winning rate, etc and try to balance the system in minor patches on a faster pace.

Not expecting any changes until 6.15 at the earliest.

I've decided to put off my PvP climb until then, but I have a hunch I might end up regretting that.

6.15 I believe us theorized to be in a couple weeks which is when we'll likely see the next major changes.

That said, I agree. If they want PvP to be more successful, especially this early on in the reboot; They NEED to be more active. We can't have this weeks and weeks of OP and useless classes. This issues need to be addressed or people will feel ignored.

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Originally Posted by silverdragontyr

6.15 I believe us theorized to be in a couple weeks which is when we'll likely see the next major changes.

That said, I agree. If they want PvP to be more successful, especially this early on in the reboot; They NEED to be more active. We can't have this weeks and weeks of OP and useless classes. This issues need to be addressed or people will feel ignored.

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There are no useless Classes, just bad Players being bad. I can only talk about my personal experience, but after trying every Class for a reasonable amount of time, i can say with clarity, that EVERY Job is capable of carrying a Match.

If anything, PvP needs MORE active Skills to use, like 2-4 for each job more would be enough.

No not useless, but the gap between bottom classes and top classes is as wide as an ocean. Further lower tier classes have functional issues that prevent them from flourishing like some of the top classes.

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Originally Posted by silverdragontyr

No not useless, but the gap between bottom classes and top classes is as wide as an ocean. Further lower tier classes have functional issues that prevent them from flourishing like some of the top classes.

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That is because Jobs such as BLM, DNC or GNB, have a higher Skillceiling than their counterparts.

Lets take DNC for example, of which many think is completely underpowered compared to MCH.
First and foremost, DNC isnt MCH, and brings completely different Options to the table, such as Healing your Dancepartner, for example. But did you knew that a DNC performs best, if you constantly switch your Dancepartner according to the situation at hand? Aside from Healing the Job offers also other Buffs that definitely can turn a Teamfight for the better.

MCH on the other hand, has nothing of that sort. MCH is completely self reliant and basically, what Scout used to be in Heroes of Newerth in case the name rings a bell (if it doesn't, that Game's similar to LoL and Scout was a infamous Hero that only steals kills trough sniping. Even the Devs hated him.) , contributes nothing to the Group, except for the fact that it deals good damage.


Tl;dr: Dmg isn't the only redeeming Quality that Jobs have. A Supporter that is good at staying alive no matter what might be even more terrifying.

Its not a skill thing. Yes they take more skill but they objectively do less. If it was just took higher skill but could do more that would be fine and I'd even say healthy for the mode. However even the highest skilled Dnc still would do less than equally or even less skilled Drg or Sam. Its a matter of some classes are objectively weaker to a large margin. This creates a dichotomy just by the virtue of having Whm/Rdm/Nin on your team you are given a huge advantage. I fully understand the meaning of meta picks. There will always be top classes and people will always do the math. If they want this mode to survive they need to close that gap.

Take those low tier classes. Buff some more of their damage. Lower their LB timers. Give them more shields. Have their support do more things. Make them a threat. Make it so you don't see the roster screen at the start of a match and know you're already at a disadvantage or going to lose.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

There are no useless Classes, just bad Players being bad. I can only talk about my personal experience, but after trying every Class for a reasonable amount of time, i can say with clarity, that EVERY Job is capable of carrying a Match.

If anything, PvP needs MORE active Skills to use, like 2-4 for each job more would be enough.

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You are delusional if u think there are no underwhelming jobs. I am currently not playing the volcano map because casters are in complete disadvantage in a map where the line of vision is so bad the only way to play properly is to go melee with a job with 48k HP, that have specifically low HP because the idea is I dont have to go melee...

There are clear flaws in some jobs... yeah as BLM I can be top damage easier, but is so situational that is obviously not right. As BLM basically my job is to spam to force other team to consume their pots, and hope for another class to take advantage and get the kills, meanwhile half other dps classes can stand alone against others and dont require anything else than themselves.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

You are delusional if u think there are no underwhelming jobs. I am currently not playing the volcano map because casters are in complete disadvantage in a map where the line of vision is so bad the only way to play properly is to go melee with a job with 48k HP, that have specifically low HP because the idea is I dont have to go melee...

There are clear flaws in some jobs... yeah as BLM I can be top damage easier, but is so situational that is obviously not right. As BLM basically my job is to spam to force other team to consume their pots, and hope for another class to take advantage and get the kills, meanwhile half other dps classes can stand alone against others and dont require anything else than themselves.

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Your arguments alone tell me that you will never go beyond mediocre performance.

However, dont expect me to educate either you or silverdragontyr beyond of what i said, since both of you clearly didnt read what i just said.

Damage.
Isn't.
Everything.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

You are delusional if u think there are no underwhelming jobs. I am currently not playing the volcano map because casters are in complete disadvantage in a map where the line of vision is so bad the only way to play properly is to go melee with a job with 48k HP, that have specifically low HP because the idea is I dont have to go melee...

There are clear flaws in some jobs... yeah as BLM I can be top damage easier, but is so situational that is obviously not right. As BLM basically my job is to spam to force other team to consume their pots, and hope for another class to take advantage and get the kills, meanwhile half other dps classes can stand alone against others and dont require anything else than themselves.

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All I play is healer and I never have the kind of trouble you describe. One of the best things about the CC stages is features like those obstacles. You can't just smooth brain through an open field. You actually have to think on your feet and adjust. Most CC woes can be filed under PEBKAC. :p

Like yes, you can do good stuff with some of the classes but it requires A. The enemy team literally ignoring your existence and B. your team carrying your slack because of your objectively inferior kit.

There are a handful of classes that are just flat out bad. GNB being able to do big damage is useless without CC and forms of securing a kill and with their LB being a joke and everyone being able to stun you anyways means you're basically playing GNB like a dps with inferior mitigation and cc abilities.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

There are no useless Classes, just bad Players being bad.

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This reminds me of the time I saw someone play Gunbreaker in Diamond and say they got there by their own skill and didn't secure a kill the entire match. Just getting carried to a rank because the team is good and/or getting lucky with team match ups =/= carrying a match.

I'd love to see someone try to carry with a GNB or BRD against a team that is half awake.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

There are clear flaws in some jobs... yeah as BLM I can be top damage easier, but is so situational that is obviously not right.

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The irony is that people keep underestimating BLM so they let them sit in the back and nuke and never kill them. Yes these classes can do things, but they can only do things if they're left alone while the team face rolls trying to kill the tank instead of the dps for the 100th time.

People would rather focus down a WHM with full mp than take out the RDM or BLM that are nuking them from afar for some reason. After two charges of cure and seraph their healing is gone, so you can burst down pretty much any target even with the WHM being at full.

Yes I CAN do top dps as SGE but my kill potential is terrible later on in tiers because I have to jump into melee range to do my most damage and that's when everyone slams cc on me to kill me or because the game saw fit to give the "higher dps" no cc, I can't secure a kill because they can stunlock me and/or turn around and heal while I'm stunned, run to pot, or stall until their teammate(s) come back.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

Your arguments alone tell me that you will never go beyond mediocre performance.

However, dont expect me to educate either you or silverdragontyr beyond of what i said, since both of you clearly didnt read what i just said.

Damage.
Isn't.
Everything.

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haha mentor spotted, try play BLM only and rank up then u can talk. MNK is not a overwhelming job, and they can literally kill a BLM every 1 minute without a way to stop it because Purify doesn't work properly and they can stack the stuns, yeah, from 100% to 0% every single LB even using purify on the starting stun and spamming to use Guard, nothing, if the MNK does the combo properly, I am dead and there is nothing I can do.

To listen someone to talk about mediocre performance without even played against me is at least, ridiculous. BLM right now only have a job, to freeze the right player in the right moment so your team can finish them or if you are lucky to you find someone 40-50% hp that allows you to cast Blizzard + NW + Paradox + Superflare + AM + Burst +AM + B3 before they use a single recuperate, 8 spells to do an amazing 47k damage..

Damage is not everything, you are right, and thats how BLM is played, the flaw? there is no communication in CC, you have to pray for your team to focus properly the target marked, or to burst the right moment when the target it freeze and cant use actions.

Then a class like RDM, or MNK can burst you out of the game in a split of a second, were I have to literally run to my melee teammates so they can attack whoever is sitting on me, because if not, I get a pesty player hitting me all the time until I die, because they know 1vs1 I could NEVER win.

BLM will be an amazing job in premades were you can communicate, meanwhile is just throwing dices hoping people make use of your freeze or help you when u need it. If not, you are useless or die.


I am not going to hear a random guy that think they know how things work because u played against a few BLMs.


Yeah and not to mention if Its the time for the Volcanic map, were 2/3 of my blizzard spells get cancelled because there is no fucking line of vision at the end of the cast.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

Then a class like RDM, or MNK can burst you out of the game in a split of a second, were I have to literally run to my melee teammates so they can attack whoever is sitting on me, because if not, I get a pesty player hitting me all the time until I die, because they know 1vs1 I could NEVER win.

BLM will be an amazing job in premades were you can communicate, meanwhile is just throwing dices hoping people make use of your freeze or help you when u need it. If not, you are useless or die.

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Again, more problems that have to do with people and not the system.... a system that is clearly new to a lot of people. If you have to run to your melee teammates, maybe they're not doing their job right. People should be looking out for each other. Is there a scholar or astro in your party? Do make sure to stay fairly close to them for buffs! I've played games like this with ZERO comms. I think they've given us plenty to work with. People can and should learn to read the room and learn about everyone else they might face.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

haha mentor spotted, try play BLM only and rank up then u can talk.

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Jokes on you, i reached Crystal Rank by playing BLM 98% of the time. The remaining 2%, i was testing waters on the Fly on Day 1 during Ranked Matches with SCH and SMN.

Sure, i dont hold a overall high position on the ladder, but my Main Goal is archieved and i can say with confidence, that i can deal as BLM with any other Job to a acceptable deal, even when being focused by multiple People constantly, but as i said already, i wont offer you or anyone any explaination, because i WANT you to stay bad at the Game, simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

That is because Jobs such as BLM, DNC or GNB, have a higher Skillceiling than their counterparts.

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GNB doesn't have a "higher skill ceiling". GNB is bad. It's underpowered and its kit is badly designed. Don't be a job balance hipster.

They can't make kit changes with hotfixes and there's not a lot of potency/duration shuffling changes they can make that would make a substantial impact on class viability.

It's just not how the system is set up to work. Kit (or server) changes tend to require full patch revs, and that comes with some unavoidable extra QA and cert overhead. A team and a backend more optimized for agility could probably do it (ie. ArenaNet, who for all their problems have always smartly prioritized agility), but FF14 ain't that team and ain't that game.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

Jokes on you, i reached Crystal Rank by playing BLM 98% of the time. The remaining 2%, i was testing waters on the Fly on Day 1 during Ranked Matches with SCH and SMN.

Sure, i dont hold a overall high position on the ladder, but my Main Goal is archieved and i can say with confidence, that i can deal as BLM with any other Job to a acceptable deal, even when being focused by multiple People constantly, but as i said already, i wont offer you or anyone any explaination, because i WANT you to stay bad at the Game, simple as that.

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noone said you CANT reach crystal, we said there are a lot of unbalanced jobs, Crystal is easy to reach, but you cant compete in the higher tiers where everyone use meta. To say that BLM have high skill ceiling as some suggested is to have a pretty low bar for high skill, BLM is not even complicated at all, it just have a skillset that requires much more cooperation than other jobs, that's the reason why you will not see high Crystal Credit BLM only, the conditions for the job to benefit the group are more difficult to achieve than others.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Again, more problems that have to do with people and not the system....

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I disagree, if a class rely heavily on others and there is no possible communication, that is a design problem. Don't get me wrong, I agree the communication should be like it is or it will be a toxic fiesta, but the idea that BLM is a full CC support class is flaw due to the nature of how ranked work.

I am pretty sure the job will get buffed and fire need a rework as it is complete useless

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Originally Posted by Anhra

That is because Jobs such as BLM, DNC or GNB, have a higher Skillceiling than their counterparts.

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If you consider "skill ceiling" 5 times the difficulty to be "kind of okay" at something other jobs do in half the time sure. I can get to vegas in a wagon or I can get to it in a porsche, I can guarantee you I'm going to have a much better and fulfilling time in the porsche.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

DNC isnt MCH

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Which if you had actual team communication, better quick chat, etc would be more useful. BUt as it stands you have no control over the team you end up with and/or what they do, meaning that your support can be completely wasted. In a perfect world classes like BRD and DNC and such would be amazing in 2 groups or others, but since we only have solo queue and an abuseable matchmaking system you're starting at a disadvantage from the getgo.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

MCH is completely self reliant

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I'd use the meme "damage is my utility" but MCH fits the mold here. They can create "safe spots" for dps by throwing turret (not sure if shield applies to allies or just yourself, might need to test that later), they can drill through guard if a DPS is about to finish someone off, they can wild fire and/or DoT them to make the DPS job easier and their LB can delete the guys who are griefing your back line and/or melee. Their "support" is the most straightforward in terms of dps but I spend most of my time as MCH watching what my team are fighting and helping accordingly as they always expect damage from one source but don't expect someone not up in their face to be sniping them or launching a buzzsaw at their face out of nowhere.

"Just doing good damage" is kind of underselling what having someone defending you/assisting you from afar and not risking getting killed provides. I can help a dps without being up in killing distance meaning we can more reliably 2v1 guys to turn the tides. In terms of utility I'd say that's on part with Dance Partner if you're coordinating with your team well enough, if not better. Other dps have to risk themselves to assist a teammate, outside of backline griefers I can steadly keep assisting with turret and dps skills to help them secure a kill. Or at least that's how I play MCH anyways. -shrug-

My job when I play MCH is basically keep their backs protected and make sure healer doesn't get griefed if I have one. Other than that I'm constantly looking at who's dishing out the most damage/kills and assisting them with their targets

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Originally Posted by Anhra

Tl;dr: Dmg isn't the only redeeming Quality that Jobs have. A Supporter that is good at staying alive no matter what might be even more terrifying.

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It's not about redeeming quality it's about balance. Because burst is what it is and CC is what it is, both of these are king in this mode. A support that can stay alive IS very good but it requires three things.

1. The team to capitalize on your utility (i.e. buffs when their burst are over since there aren't set windows in pvp)
2. You not getting ganked while your dps/tank screw off in Narnia.
3. Your team being alive.

The minute you're in a 1v1 or something that damage loss hurts, and while support IS great and classes like BRD and DNC could be amazing when coordinated, in the nonsense solo burst silence/stun queue that is now, they underperform without a ton of extra work and back and forth.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

Jokes on you, i reached Crystal Rank by playing BLM 98% of the time. The remaining 2%, i was testing waters on the Fly on Day 1 during Ranked Matches with SCH and SMN.

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I haven't seen snow in years in my state. Therefore there is no snow. An exception does not disprove a rule. Either you are that good (which, kudos) or were fortunate enough as some of my friends are to have gotten great teams to burst win streaks to crystal at some point.

And even if you WERE that good (the new buffs have made BLMs a pain and for some reason ther est of my team just let them screw around without any pressure for some reason) It wouldn't account for BLM being good by ignoring half of its kit (fire) meaning you're actually lowering the skill ceiling, not raising it lol.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnwaen

GNB is bad.

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Yeah I've seen people brag about GNB DPS constantly and everytime I see one in plat/diamond I feel sorry for the teams that had to carry them there. I can do a crap ton of damage as GNB but with a worthless LB, bad tanking, bad healing, and no CC, I might as well just play a dps that can do my hit and run job better (like NIN) to more satisfying results.

I still just ignore GNB until I've cleared out the other opponents. They just aren't a problem unless I'm just sitting there in their LB or letting them dps me.

I say this as someone who has tried a million times to make it work but it just feels bad to play a class that has no defenses of any kind and requires really jank timing and circumstance to pull off its full damage potential.