Basic Competence

Please, please put at least a basic competence quest in so people understand the complex concepts like focus fire.

Please.

P.S. Remove #ragebaitovertime

We're almost a month into this thing, and 95% of players still don't seem to understand that more bodies on a checkpoint will cap it faster.
People still run around in the open with all their abilities on CD slapping their basic combos until they die,
and dogfight in the expressways after winning a team fight while one player from the enemy team pushes the crystal to checkpoint.
Folks will blow their entire burst combos into Guard or Hallowed Ground, waste CC on targets that just broke root with Purify,
split DPS between 5 different targets, and refuse under any circumstances to peel for an ally.
It's common for teams to play FFA Deathmatch for 5 minutes only to suddenly panic and try to "get serious" when the clock goes into OT.

I'm sitting at 2200 CC and this is still my experience in the vast majority of matches.
It does not get better. The raw incompetence of the PvP community in this game is astonishing.

Why even put rank when people can't rank down?

There is so many things half of crystal players don't understand:

- How Overtime works
- How Checkpoints work
- What target to focus and what not to focus
- How marks 1 & 2 work
- When to use CC on a target
- Waiting for the team instead of running 1vs5 when you have a crystal point advantage
- When to disengage to refill your heals
- When to help your teammates so they can disengage
- When to follow your team into the fight
- When not to stand in the crystal
- When not to attack the Samurai or Dark Knight
- How to check for teammate ults so you can combo them

the list is endless

My eyes have dimmed further reading these. All my hopes and dreams of Diamond and Crystal shattered into dust.

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Originally Posted by Xel

My eyes have dimmed further reading these. All my hopes and dreams of Diamond and Crystal shattered into dust.

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Crystal is basically the same quality of matches as Unranked - Diamond anyway. You aren't missing much. Especially if the adventure plate is something you don't care about. It's even only used in Crystal Conflict so there's almost no point to having it other than to pretend that you are among a handful of skilled players.

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Originally Posted by drtasteyummy

There is so many things half of crystal players don't understand:

- How Overtime works
- How Checkpoints work
- What target to focus and what not to focus
- How marks 1 & 2 work
- When to use CC on a target
- Waiting for the team instead of running 1vs5 when you have a crystal point advantage
- When to disengage to refill your heals
- When to help your teammates so they can disengage
- When to follow your team into the fight
- When not to stand in the crystal
- When not to attack the Samurai or Dark Knight
- How to check for teammate ults so you can combo them

the list is endless

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Some players got carried and got lucky imho. There's no way I should be seeing High Plats
racing down the map to finish off some random person just to raise their KDA
while people are solo walking the crystal with 3 other people on them without any peel and we lose.

I legit just had a P2 Paladin run as hard as he could to chase a Gold 4 BRD down the football looking map
escalator thing while most of us were dead and they were pushing the Crystal past the threshold lmao.

Basic Competence? In FFXIV?
The moment you even TRY to elaborate on this topic, will render you not only as a toxic elitist that comes straight from WoW, but also as a troll that is only out to ruin everyones fun.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Some players got carried and got lucky imho. There's no way I should be seeing High Plats
racing down the map to finish off some random person just to raise their KDA
while people are solo walking the crystal with 3 other people on them without any peel and we lose.

I legit just had a P2 Paladin run as hard as he could to chase a Gold 4 BRD down the football looking map
escalator thing while most of us were dead and they were pushing the Crystal past the threshold lmao.

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There is definitely a high probability that a lot of people either used the first 3 days of release to luck into crystal or
that they straight up lucked the streak system into save haven, there is no "hidden elo" or something, they just
match the players depending on their rank. So even in high elo you get D5 to low Crystal players and these people very often know nothing, factually the difference
between the ranks was or still is extremely small. Not long ago the difference from bronze to plat was if you knew what is the "basic job" of your class and the difference
between plat and diamond/crystal was how good you make use of your ultimate and as the people learn and the skill elevates the people sitting in their save haven ultimately
lead to never have the ranks normalized.

Is there a focus fire command? There is the "I am attacking X" Which implies focus fire. Could also imply I am keeping them occupied and everyone else should focus on someone else.

If only there were some way of giving customized messages to the chat box.

add requirements to ranked content, that needs to be passed each season.

They could flash random tips before the start of matches.

Don't let people queue rank with a non max level job. Separate ranks for each job. Let people derank

Why would you need max level job considering pve and pvp has 2 different skill sets...

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Originally Posted by Sidamel

Why would you need max level job considering pve and pvp has 2 different skill sets...

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Because what is stopping from someone who doesn't have any skill in a job for PvP to use rank for leveling? Get to crystal using dragoon. Queue as warrior in Crystal for leveling? Use our brains guys

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Originally Posted by Hanri

Don't let people queue rank with a non max level job. Separate ranks for each job. Let people derank

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Just remember this is a Japanese game in heart and soul. Punishing people for "trying" or "doing their best" does not exist in Japan. It's all about positive reinforcement and having everyone participate and have fun. Also PVP is not their main focus and never will be. If anyone is into that, other games exist. I am not disagreeing with you but I am just saying how it is.

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Originally Posted by Prrringles

Just remember this is a Japanese game in heart and soul. Punishing people for "trying" or "doing their best" does not exist in Japan. It's all about positive reinforcement and having everyone participate and have fun. Also PVP is not their main focus and never will be. If anyone is into that, other games exist. I am not disagreeing with you but I am just saying how it is.

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Funny that you say that. The PvP changes which we recieved in Endwanker completely outweight the PvE changes in terms of scale (since PvE wise, we are STILL in ShB), so you can even say, that Endwanker is FFXIVs first PvP Expansion.

Also, fun is subjective. Squeenix silly attempt at catering to everyone, will sooner or later result into another dumpster fire when they keep on continuing that Road. What they seem to have forgotten rather quickly, was listenung to their Community which seems to know their Game far better than they will ever do.

And next time, there wont be another Realm to be reborn into, especially when you consider how the Company keeps losing Money, IP and trust lately. If FFXVI flops, it will probably be a well deserved reality check for them.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

Is there a focus fire command? There is the "I am attacking X" Which implies focus fire. Could also imply I am keeping them occupied and everyone else should focus on someone else.

If only there were some way of giving customized messages to the chat box.

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I tend to use "I am blocking 'x'" to illustrate that I'm occupying an opponent instead of seriously trying to kill them. I also tend to use "I am covering 'x'" to illustrate that I'm trying to focus fire with them - but it can be tricky given how tab targeting prioritizes targets.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

They could flash random tips before the start of matches.

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Just put it in the loading screen on respawn lol

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Originally Posted by Anhra

Also, fun is subjective. Squeenix silly attempt at catering to everyone, will sooner or later result into another dumpster fire when they keep on continuing that Road. What they seem to have forgotten rather quickly, was listenung to their Community which seems to know their Game far better than they will ever do.

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Where is the dumpster fire exactly? Pvp? Pvp always sucked in this game and never was an issue before. They revamp their pvp and suddenly everyone becomes toxic.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

And next time, there wont be another Realm to be reborn into, especially when you consider how the Company keeps losing Money, IP and trust lately. If FFXVI flops, it will probably be a well deserved reality check for them.

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Why would that be well deserved? And who are we talking here? SE or the FFXIV team?

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Originally Posted by Prrringles

Just remember this is a Japanese game in heart and soul. Punishing people for "trying" or "doing their best" does not exist in Japan. It's all about positive reinforcement and having everyone participate and have fun. Also PVP is not their main focus and never will be. If anyone is into that, other games exist. I am not disagreeing with you but I am just saying how it is.

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This x1000, also people tend to mix things up here, projecting their image of what the game is when it's never even been considered that to begin with. All the while forgetting its roots.

People want some real, "fair" PvP ? Go HoH/PotD solo/party. Still RNG but only PvE RNG, while still competiting against others on a leaderboard. But it's kinda old and grindy now.

Also the Square Enix doomsayers, lol.

If PVP isn't the main focus right now, I admit I have no idea why so many resources got dedicated to CC then.

I feel like I'm not asking for the world, though.

We have quests for tons of things to help folks learn a new class, something for the basics of PVP seems more than logical.

Knowing the insanity I witness right now goes into Diamond and Crystal feels super depressing when I think of it.

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Originally Posted by Xel

If PVP isn't the main focus right now, I admit I have no idea why so many resources got dedicated to CC then.

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Well it was 6 years since the last major PvP mode change. Did you just want another season of The Feast and nothing new?

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...E3%81%A6/page5

Hilariously enough JP is complaining about the absolutely awful quality of diamond/crystal games too. Absolute joke of a mode. Feast was better because I didn't have to see the same backpedalling warrior game after game past diamond promos, because they'd get filtered in gold.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Well it was 6 years since the last major PvP mode change. Did you just want another season of The Feast and nothing new?

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So we should just accept something that is mediocre for something that we're paying just because "it's new?" Oh the quality of people here

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Originally Posted by Hanri

So we should just accept something that is mediocre for something that we're paying just because "it's new?" Oh the quality of people here

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I don't think I implied this.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

Funny that you say that. The PvP changes which we recieved in Endwanker completely outweight the PvE changes in terms of scale (since PvE wise, we are STILL in ShB), so you can even say, that Endwanker is FFXIVs first PvP Expansion.

Also, fun is subjective. Squeenix silly attempt at catering to everyone, will sooner or later result into another dumpster fire when they keep on continuing that Road. What they seem to have forgotten rather quickly, was listenung to their Community which seems to know their Game far better than they will ever do.

And next time, there wont be another Realm to be reborn into, especially when you consider how the Company keeps losing Money, IP and trust lately. If FFXVI flops, it will probably be a well deserved reality check for them.

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After EW launch and 6.1, you really have no place to talk about money lost. XIV hit some major milestones with subscribers and clearly have more of the support they need. We've seen more than the usual amount of work put into this game, especially in this last patch and what they have planned going forward. You even make note of it yourself, so way to contradict. :p

PVE is lacking for updates? We're in a long process of continual adjustments and we definitely got some major ones. They finally got around to starting fresh on PvP. Yeah, it's gonna seem like a lot more... until you look at the big picture and not much has been happening for PvP.

How you can say PVE is still in ShB with jobs like SMN getting the changes it did is beyond me.

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Originally Posted by rofland

Hilariously enough JP is complaining about the absolutely awful quality of diamond/crystal games too. Absolute joke of a mode. Feast was better because I didn't have to see the same backpedalling warrior game after game past diamond promos, because they'd get filtered in gold.

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Ah yes, the good ol' Feast. What % of players there were actually "legit" players? Majority were cheaters/hackers and win-traders (including selling ranks for real money). The Feast was just as big of a joke as CC is for different reasons.

Welcome to competitive games OP. You must be new around here~

If ppl need to think in pvp, it'll no fun...

I'd be happy to just get someone to stop spamming the "Push the crystal" every time they 1v5 guys and die because they're letting the backline get absolutely wrecked by NIN/RDM shenanigans and wondering why they don't have a team to push.

I'm so tired of being told to push crystal by someone sitting at spawn reviving while I'm the only one on the field lol. Like no dude I'm not going to run out there and kamikaze for a few extra futile seconds when we could regroup and push back.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnwaen

It does not get better. The raw incompetence of the PvP community in this game is astonishing.

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I finally clawed my way out of Plat expecting it to get better but it got worse? It feels like I have more ragequitters/chat spammers now than ever before. Sure there's more damage numbers but people still don't focus attacks, still go after full mp healers, still don't deal with the BLM in the back nuking your party, etc. It's like someone taught a class in the opposite of everything that you should be doing in a team pvp mode.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Some players got carried and got lucky imho. There's no way I should be seeing High Plats
racing down the map to finish off some random person just to raise their KDA

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I watched as people left me as a SGE to solo defend the checkpoint for crystal instead of helping make it charge faster to run around the map like morons and then started spamming chat because when the 4 team members they weren't even looking for came at me I bounced.

I do no good if I'm dead and if I'm going to be left along to 4v1 someone I don't see the merit in sitting there getting ganked.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnwaen

We're almost a month into this thing, and 95% of players still don't seem to understand that more bodies on a checkpoint will cap it faster.
People still run around in the open with all their abilities on CD slapping their basic combos until they die,
and dogfight in the expressways after winning a team fight while one player from the enemy team pushes the crystal to checkpoint.
Folks will blow their entire burst combos into Guard or Hallowed Ground, waste CC on targets that just broke root with Purify,
split DPS between 5 different targets, and refuse under any circumstances to peel for an ally.
It's common for teams to play FFA Deathmatch for 5 minutes only to suddenly panic and try to "get serious" when the clock goes into OT.

I'm sitting at 2200 CC and this is still my experience in the vast majority of matches.
It does not get better. The raw incompetence of the PvP community in this game is astonishing.

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It's not just the PvP community, lol. Square-Enix doesn't put any effort into teaching players how to play the game, nor do they even have even gentle knowledge checks in the MSQ (remember how they nerfed Into the Cold in the first hotfix even though that little adventure is really simple for people that actually pay attention?), so it's not surprising to encounter it in PvP.

But it's usually not a good idea to have the team sitting on the checkpoint. Far better to have one person left to cap it while the other four push into the enemy base to pick off stragglers and intercept reinforcements. I'll admit the lack of peeling or really paying attention to their allies is my pet peeve, being a healer main. So many games I'm running in circles around pillars and back and forth while 2-3 DPS are chasing me and whittling me down and my team is just off in Narnia. If we actually accomplish something... well, whatever. But half the time they'll somehow lose the 4v3 anyway! Best not to care about ranking/points in the Ranked mode, unfortunately. If we're not allowed to select our teammates, the whole thing is just nonsense. But it's the only way to get halfway decent games - Casual is fun but you get tons of people that are just basically afk'ing for their GARO stuff so you can't rely on getting halfway decent games there.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

But it's usually not a good idea to have the team sitting on the checkpoint.

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No, it's almost always a good idea to stack 5 on the point for a quick cap after you win the first engagement.
Cap speed is based on how many players you have on the point vs how many enemy players are on the point.
If you have 5 and they have 0, the point caps in a few seconds. If you only have 1, it takes forever and can be solo contested.
If you have 1 on point, 1 or 2 standing near the point but not on it, and 2 or 3 running around trying to pick off stragglers,
you're creating an opportunity for your own people to get picked off or for a single opponent to freeze cap progress,
and you're giving the enemy team loads of extra time to regroup and contest.

Honestly, I'm convinced that people are getting their friends to purposely throw matches at this point. The fact that the game allows people to circumvent the solo queue matcher and get into the same group is the problem.

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Originally Posted by Prrringles

Ah yes, the good ol' Feast. What % of players there were actually "legit" players? Majority were cheaters/hackers and win-traders (including selling ranks for real money). The Feast was just as big of a joke as CC is for different reasons.

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Only true on primal
Even then you had a better chance of winning grief games on primal than with some of the diamonds in q xd

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Originally Posted by Iyrnwaen

No, it's almost always a good idea to stack 5 on the point for a quick cap after you win the first engagement.
Cap speed is based on how many players you have on the point vs how many enemy players are on the point.
If you have 5 and they have 0, the point caps in a few seconds. If you only have 1, it takes forever and can be solo contested.
If you have 1 on point, 1 or 2 standing near the point but not on it, and 2 or 3 running around trying to pick off stragglers,
you're creating an opportunity for your own people to get picked off or for a single opponent to freeze cap progress,
and you're giving the enemy team loads of extra time to regroup and contest.

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If you're killing the enemy team then they won't be alive to contest the actual push to the goal.

Your goal is killing the enemy team. If the enemy team is dead, they cannot contest the push. You should never, ever have your team just sitting around AFK on the point unless all of the enemies are dead or otherwise unable to be reached. 3 players running in to contest the checkpoint against a full team are just suiciding and adding to their respawn timers. This is a good thing. It means they will not be able to resist the push to the goal as well.

Unless you're the team's designated "okay go AFK on the point" guy, you should never be standing around idle. You should be harassing and killing the remaining enemy players.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

If you're killing the enemy team then they won't be alive to contest the actual push to the goal.

Your goal is killing the enemy team. If the enemy team is dead, they cannot contest the push. You should never, ever have your team just sitting around AFK on the point unless all of the enemies are dead or otherwise unable to be reached. 3 players running in to contest the checkpoint against a full team are just suiciding and adding to their respawn timers. This is a good thing. It means they will not be able to resist the push to the goal as well.

Unless you're the team's designated "okay go AFK on the point" guy, you should never be standing around idle. You should be harassing and killing the remaining enemy players.

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You're dead wrong here, and the prevalence of this attitude loses matches.
Your goal is not to kill the enemy team. Your goal is to push the payload farther than the enemy team.
Taking the checkpoint makes it substantially more difficult for your opponent to prevent an immediate loss in OT.
If you fail to take the checkpoint, you're inviting an OT comeback for your opponents.

5 stacking the checkpoint allows your team to capture it before the enemy team has time to respond.
Leaving one person to slow cap the point gives the enemy team time to contest. You're needlessly creating a risk of failure.
The difference in time to cap between 1 player and 5 players is enormous.

When you choose not to fast cap the point, you're gambling on your split team successfully preventing your opponents from regrouping.
If you fail to do that, your best case scenario is that your team successfully falls back, regroups, and defends the cap.
Your worst case scenario is that respawns pick off members of your team who chase too deep, and the enemy team successfully contests the cap.
Both of those scenarios are worse than simply quick capping the point in the first place and eliminating any risk.

Backing up the idea that this is actually Crystal Conflict, not just KO the enemy. That checkpoint matters! People make the same misconception in the Frontline modes and that's why they lose. Two teams will get stuck fighting each other while the third picks up the big targets.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

If you're killing the enemy team then they won't be alive to contest the actual push to the goal.

Your goal is killing the enemy team. If the enemy team is dead, they cannot contest the push. You should never, ever have your team just sitting around AFK on the point unless all of the enemies are dead or otherwise unable to be reached.

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The goal is not to kill the enemy team. It's to push the crystal. You can kill their team all day long but if one dude manages to push that crystal an inch further you're going to lose anyway.

They're not sitting "AFK" either. You're actually avoiding keeping one other person "afk" to help with the overall push. By breaking the first checkpoint immediately/fast you can more easily/quickly push to the finish vs having not done so or vs leaving someone behind to get ganked while the rest of the dps go be heroes or something.

You can:

1. Spend more time and effort fighting people in spawn while the checkpoint slowly loads giving even one chance at them deleting the person on top of it or stopping it from being pushed

-or-

2. You can immediately cap point and then go back to murder house resting assured that the crystal will move in the right direction so long as you're holding the line.

The latter requires LESS afk time and time wasted, and doesn't require dps raising the risk of getting faceplanted if something goes awry in enemy territory.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

3 players running in to contest the checkpoint against a full team are just suiciding and adding to their respawn timers.

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This is also wrong as LBs have proven. Summoner LB, DRG LB, WHM LB WAR LB, etc etc all punish group ups. 3 LBs back to back can instantly turn the tide. If even one person gets past you enough to lb the person holding the point that's either no checkpoint reached or worse crystal moving the opposite direction now.

Not to mention Guard makes this a moot point as well (as it should). Even if they're taking damage a single opponent stopping the crystal from clearing the check point is a loss.

Running after "stragglers" into enemy spawn is a quick road to getting killed unless the team is literally afking or only 1v4'ing you. If the SMN spawns with LB all they have to do is delete you from range and/or assist one other team mate and now you've lost the gain on the crystal for a death.

The Goal should be to clear the checkpoint IMMEDIATELY and then everyone can go play war in the trenches.

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Originally Posted by Iyrnwaen

If you fail to take the checkpoint, you're inviting an OT comeback for your opponents.

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This as well. If you fail to make that initial push past the check point you're basically handing a possible win to the other team.
I've seen people face roll opponents and steam roll to victory but that's only because they didn't give my team a chance to take back that first checkpoint. It's literally everything in the opening minutes of the match.

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Originally Posted by Tobias_Azuryon

The goal is not to kill the enemy team. It's to push the crystal. You can kill their team all day long but if one dude manages to push that crystal an inch further you're going to lose anyway.

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Dead players get a stacking penalty to their respawn timer. They spend more time dead, less time fighting and generating LB. You will win more games by causing enemies to be literally incapable of contesting the point - because they are *dead* - than you will by ignoring them and "pushing the crystal."

In the future, please don't be a pedant. It doesn't make you sound smart, it makes you sound like someone picking at nits in lieu of coming up with actual rebuttal.