Just normalise the damage and have no crit. Yes, I know this might've costed you a brain cell or two, god forbid.
Say 50% crit damage @ 20% rate = 1 + 0.5 * 0.2 = 1.1 damage multiplier.
Problem solved. Kaiten works. Raid buff works. No one need to regear. No more fluctuation. It aren't hard.
Guaranteed crit is the most pathetic abysmal shit I have ever seen. It's like whoever responsible just fucked off for the whole week and vomited some shit to get across the line on the last hour of friday afternoon.
Edit- Crit flucuation is not even that big of a problem that people are actually asking for fixes. Who actually care about this? Only the par- O wait! The program that shall not be named. So save all of us the time with whatever BS you want to spin.
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05-06-2022, 02:16 PMSleeeeeeepySleeeeeeepSolution for SAM crit fluctuation in case SE want to spin more BS
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05-06-2022, 04:24 PMYukiB
Yeah, crit buff synergy will still be a thing, but this would be even more boring than guaranteed crits.
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05-06-2022, 10:41 PMdarkdylloncrit buff synergy would just move to what Embolden in RDM does.Quote:
Originally Posted by YukiB
"increase party damage by 5%" instead of "increase party critical hit chance by 10%"
they're gonna get rid of crit at some point, Yoshi has already stated that they are having an hard time balancing around Crits (kinda funny thinking about it, an stat THEY introduced is causing them issues, now that it's normalized they want to get rid of it) -
05-06-2022, 10:59 PMRansu
That sounds horrible, no thanks. Crit fluctuation is perfectly fine. They could maybe fine tune the crit stat, but damage fluctuation is normal and should be expected in stat heavy games like these. Reality is they didn't know what to do with SAM for the new ultimate fight and in order to deal with those spikes in damage they simply made the crit static by making them unable to get direct crit hits which removes those big 60k+ crits.
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05-07-2022, 12:27 AMHolyReign
Well, it's nice to see such a well thought out thread, with positive talking points and discussion on how to implement them into the game.
Certainly not any abusive talk, tantrum throwing, and attempting to control how people respond to it, nope, none. -
05-07-2022, 01:33 PMSleeeeeeepySleeeeeeepYup. Agreed. It's not even a problem to begin with. Neither was there anyone asking for a fix.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransu
It's pure distilled BS spinning from SE. Just pointing out even the BS they try to spin is fucking pathetic. -
05-07-2022, 03:55 PMRyazI know right? Definitely zero condescension there and purely great feedback that contributes greatly to the community!Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyReign
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05-07-2022, 04:36 PMAsiTsurugiDidn't realize we pay full box price for every expansion and sub fees every month to play therapist for these "devs" and boost their ego. If they cannot read past language to comprehend the underlying message, that spawned as a result of the frustration that the devs you so revere created unsolicitedly, they should definitely not expect anyone to put up with their nonsense and continue "supporting" this game, or pretend that they believe Naoki Yoshida's 10 billionth pointless apology post for things he approved with full cognizance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryaz
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05-07-2022, 10:13 PMStasyaCrit is a good mechanic in mmos, if Yoshi P says that they have hard time balancing game around crits, maybe he should try to play more classes than blm and also hire more playtesters if devs refuse to check/test stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkdyllon
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05-08-2022, 12:04 AMHolyReign
We're not trying to play therapist for anyone.
What we are doing, is getting tired of SAM posts that are mostly composed of insults, derogatory comments, and demeaning ones intelligence, just because their META job took a hit.
You can have a discussion, provide feed back, and convey your feelings w/o the need of being a immature little brat. -
05-08-2022, 12:24 AMStasyaAre you also tired of trolls on forums that defend SAM changes, while having zero hours even in dungeons as SAM, or being salty that SAM was buffed in 6.08 just so there was even one person that gloated about 6.1 patch changes (like all SAM players deserved it)???????????Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyReign
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05-08-2022, 12:25 AMDPZ2By "underlying message" do you mean the cultural assumptions one must make when writing in the English language?Quote:
Originally Posted by AsiTsurugi
Because, quite frankly, I doubt that many Japanese, let alone the SE developers for this game, have that underlying cultural background.
It's a major reason I doubt that posts full of English sarcasm, irony and not-so-subtle hostility are going to influence a single developer. They don't "read past language", because they don't read English in the first place. If I were to act as a translator for posts on the English forums, a lot of what posters consider "nuance" and "cleverness" in the arguments would be lost, if not outright ignored. Not because of the subject matter, but because fruitful conversation in Japanese requires some level of courtesy that is lacking in words such as "boost their ego" and "play therapist".
Here. Have a simple 30 minute Japanese lesson that demonstrates that even what we might consider as simple, straightforward English, when translated inexpertly into Japanese, sounds odd, if not insulting. https://learnjapanese123.com/lost-in-translation/ -
05-08-2022, 12:30 AMStasyaThere is a problem that judging by that people provided feedback before 6.1 patch went live (which was basically don't do this), devs do not care about JP forum aswell. They all ride on high horse with "we know better".Quote:
Originally Posted by DPZ2
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05-08-2022, 12:39 AMDPZ2From the posts I've read on the Japanese forums, there are more "let us wait and see where the developers are going with these changes" and fewer "Samurai is totally destroyed now, and I will never play it again" than on English forums. And the posts are much more polite (although social media sites were not - hence the posts from Yoshi-P). These posts also stay in a minimal amount of threads, rather than being daily brought up by the same people over and over and over again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stasya
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05-08-2022, 03:09 AMAsiTsurugiI appreciate your clarification, as I am not acquianted with cultural aspects or language nuances required for communicating with people in SE's dev team.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPZ2
Unforunately for them, that really is also a problem primarily they have to deal with. If you, as a company, want to sell your products in markets that are way outside your cultural zone, then the onus is on you to learn their culture first, not vice-versa. If Naoki Yoshida had explicitly stated "we welcome feedback from only players from Japan in the Japanese language forums", then at least I wouldn't bother with engaging here. Now, I suppose the mistake is my assumption that they will ever read any feedback in these forums, but I imagine talking about the fundamental systemic issues with SAM that they introduced 2 weeks before an ultimate, with absolutely no explanation whatsoever, in "official forums" would at least be more impactful than typing these same words on, say, Reddit.
Also do note that I did not start posting before a couple of days ago. I took Naoki Yoshida's suggestion in good faith, tried out samurai in content, including savage and the current ultimate, before posting here. It still feels incomplete, it still feels horrible to play, and this dev team imposed this on us for what? "TBA"? Well, 6.1 has been out for a month now, and "TBA" has still not arrived, so exactly what they are waiting for? If "TBA" was going to take them an indeterminate amount of time, they could have done *all* of these changes along with those "TBA" changes at that indeterminate time, instead of fundamentally altering the job's playstyle two weeks before a piece of highly anticipiated content (at least for me) dropped. I was looking forward to sen and kenki management and other nuances the pre-6.1 kit would have brought with this ultimate fight, and now it seems like none of those two gauges really matter because every button hits for approximately the same amount post-6.1. Meanwhile, every other job still has the same issues with "damage variance" with respect to crit in this ultimate, which was the reason given for flattening the damage curve for samurai whose bursty nature was a core aspect of why people enjoyed it. Kaiten was removed because Yoshida said it was "restrictive" but did not say what "restrictions" a flat 50% potency increase to certain skills would have placed on their future design that they had to remove it right now.
I hope this clarified where I (and hopefully others who post their displeasure with SAM's current state) come from. However much this dev team might have accomplished and good faith they might have garnered by bringing this game back from the dead with 2.0, they are currently severely lacking with that level of dedication, competence or transparency now that they have seen success, more so if they outright ignore feedback from people that actively engage with content they said they made these changes to SAM for. -
05-08-2022, 06:42 AMPayadopa
Just ban that little calculator. Problem solved. :D
Joking aside, people take those numbers way, way too seriously. -
05-08-2022, 06:53 AMHolyReign
Ah yes, the, "You don't play the job, so you have no idea." defense.
Not that SAM, or any job for that matter, "Deserves it." But, changes happen good or bad, and most of these SAM posts convey the feelings like SAM players where distinctly targeted and harassed by the Devs with this change.
But yeah, label me a Troll, if you must, whatever floats your boat. -
05-08-2022, 08:03 AMStasyaWhere does calculator involved with removing kaiten and making sam not being utilize party buffs of some classes, the calculator stuff is a side effect, if this game is all about buff each other why making war/sam special?Quote:
Originally Posted by Payadopa
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05-08-2022, 08:41 AMSleeeeeeepySleeeeeeepOh hey look at that. It's the idiot who spend more time on the forum than in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPZ2
The guy who hasn't even finished any raids including normal (LMFAO) in EW is here to grace everyone with his "wisdom".
Yes, keep shilling. -
05-08-2022, 08:47 AMSleeeeeeepySleeeeeeepPoint us all one post where a SAM player said we are "distinctly targeted and harassed by Devs".Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyReign
Oh wait. You can't. It's just your made up bullshit "feeling". Ah yes, we all need to cater for special snowflakes like you who'll "feel" shit no one's ever posted anywhere on this forum.
Yeah. You are a troll. GTFO. -
05-08-2022, 08:49 AMbutchersblockThe fact that we have people like you trying to paint this like people are upset over meta and not job feel is perhaps the reason Samurai players are unhappy?Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyReign
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05-08-2022, 11:26 AMHolyReignSure I would agree with you in part, that there are people who play SAM who are genuinely upset by the change to, Job Feel, that the removal of Kaiten has brought. However I would deny believing that everyone who has come forth to voice their opinions, have done so due to, Job Feel, and instead are truly upset about the Damage Numbers only, and how they now will have to chase the META-Train to whichever job it stops at.Quote:
Originally Posted by butchersblock
See I too, in years previous to joining the FFXIV was indeed a META-Slave, I only played classes that where seen as being OP while also being one of the easiest classes to do well on. Then one day, I woke up, and decided to play what I enjoy most, so, coming here I screwed around with many of the jobs, deleted characters, restarted over and over and over, to finally land on MCH, and I am loving the job. Many SAM players are still playing SAM, still have it as their Main, regardless of the changes.
Flocking to SAM due to it being META, is most likely one of the largest contributors to it being removed from the META, when a class/job saturates group comp, it's bound to find itself on the chopping block. I feel sorry for those SAM players I do, and I only fear that jobs like Reaper/Ninja and alike are next. -
05-08-2022, 12:18 PMcjbeagleAgain, from 6.0 through 6.08 samurai was completely overshadowed by monk and reaper. Nobody who was a samurai main in 6.08 was chasing the meta because samurai weren't meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyReign
6.0: Samurai aren't meta. Tons of people main samurai anyway and are completely happy.
6.08: Samurai aren't meta. Tons of people main samurai anyway and are completely happy.
6.1: Samurai aren't meta. Tons of people complain because the job's gameplay was drastically changed for the worse. You: "You're just mad because you're not meta anymore." -
05-08-2022, 12:30 PMCeridwenNo... and no one actually reading & comprehending what people have said could actually think this. It's quite obvious the developers didn't realize how much this one particular ability mattered. I don't think they did it as a vindictive stab. I think they didn't realize people would care, or considered Kaiten so integral to the feel of the class. It's quite the opposite of being a numbers complaint, or an 'I'm not the top class!' complaint.Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyReign
It's so simple! I'm not sure what these - relatively few - 'I'm not a troll!' posters want from this, or think they're achieving by fussing over other players' feedback, but honestly... don't care. Many of us, who play the class, and who have friends who play the class, felt it was important. Without it, the class feels ordinary, flat, empty and hollow. It's not *bad* or weak - it's empty. And I hate empty. -
05-08-2022, 03:55 PMFrogBiscuitJust a personal take...Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyReign
But I have seen far more posters going out of their way to be overly critical about other peoples' expressed opinions then I have seen SAM posters talking down to others...
The worst SAM comments out there have almost universally been in response to provocation from posters like you.
Its a bit annoying that any expression against the SAM changes seem to get derailed by the 'OMG, why are you complaining?! Your opinions don't matter!' posts. Could also be a reason behind why so many differing posts on the same topic get posted... But regardless, thanks for the unconscious bump.
Every time someone needs to interject with whining about another person 'whining' it posts the thread back to the top and keeps the idea the 6.1 SAM change was a mistake front and center. Not saying other player issues don't matter. But certainly appreciate all the support you guys are giving ours. -
05-09-2022, 05:58 AMMikey_RPeople might not have asked for it, however the Devs seemed to think it was enough of a problem to try and mitigate this issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep
Crit fluctuation is going to become more of an issue if the job has access to an action that is much stronger than the rest of their kit. In the case of Samurai, Midare Setsugekka comes roughly every 17 seconds. SAM's 3 step combo averages at 287 potency per GCD, in 6.11, Midare is 640 potency, this one attack does more than double the average potency of your normal GCD combo and that is before the guaranteed crit. By making it a guaranteed crit, the devs are effectively making the RNG on crit variance always in your favour, which lessens the gap caused by RNG. If you go back to before 6.11, when Midare was 1200 under Kaiten, you can easily see how a potentially 1800 potency attack (assume a 1.5 crit multiplier) can sway your damage in a massive way (note that the removal of Kaiten does not matter here, Kaiten could have stayed, still powering up Midare and keeping the guaranteed crit).
However, effectively turning Crit into another Det is not the solution. The problem is with the critical stat, that with it being able to increase critical rate and critical damage, making it far superior to any other stat except your main damage stat. There are probably numerous ways it could be changed, however, something that could be done is splitting the 2 effects of Crit, so you have a crit % stat and a crit damage stat, however, rather than adding another stat, you could potentially rework a current stat, like Direct Hit. Direct Hit could be the one that increases your crit rate and the critical stat could be the one that increases damage. This then gives you flexibility in how you want to distribute stats. If you have a job that has a high amount of guaranteed crits (Warrior), you might favour crit damage, if you were a quicker job, you might prefer crit %. Of course, this does mean getting rid of Direct Hits as they are now, but I don't see that as too big of an issue. As for crit skills, you could make them either affect rate, damage or both (best option), this then means all jobs will benefit from crit based actions again. -
05-09-2022, 07:43 AMRuminousMost people who look at the changes to samurai realize that critical damage is the issue, and not the kit itself. What people are mad about is the way the devs chose to address the problem they created. It's a case of linear growth vs exponential, and samurai is on a very low linear path now. Most people are fine with that kind of growth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey_R
However, the new problem they created was they removed a tool of the class that required it to have some modicum of thought. When you don't need to think about what you're doing, you're just mindlessly hitting your rotation. Without need for worrying about how much of a resource you have, spending it the moment you get it is the ideal thing to do with it. For many, it doesn't make for compelling play. There were other ways they could have chosen to fix the problem, but their current choice with samurai is putting a bandaid on a gushing bullet wound. Doesn't quite solve the problem. -
05-09-2022, 10:19 AMDPZ2What a charming young lady you are. I bet you have plenty of boys and girls fawning over your wit and wisdom and lack of common courtesy.Quote:
Originally Posted by SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep
When, o dear lady, has speaking about what can be read by anyone with some Japanese (or poorly translated web pages, if that's your thing) in these forums been "shilling"?