Lets talk about the NERF..

was realy nesesary?

do SE notice now we dont have a tank?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carlosx

was realy nesesary?

do SE notice now we dont have a tank?

---

While I don't see the nerf on Steel Cyclone (and Rampage) to be a big deal, I am concerned about the impact Collusion nerf could have.

...

yeah, that totally, really, positively, absolutely kills the tanking power of war. ¬_¬

Now I leave you with this advice:

http://shmupemall.com/wp-content/upl...d-see-1991.jpg

I love it.

Just goes to show you, SE has learned nothing from XI.

You don't achieve balance by taking the good and making it bad, you take the bad and make it better.

They didn't make it bad. You people are being ridiculous. All they did to MRD was making so you have to Tank OR DD you can't do both. Collusion had nothing to do with MRD being good at tanking. They were only better than PLD because they could put out more DMG than any other class in the game while staying alive.

Steel Cyclone damage doesn't seem to be that nerfed, it still hit harder than the other WS in the Heavy Swing chain by far. It looks like the range was the primary thing they adjusted.

All in all, it appears they truly did go for a balanced approach instead of wildly slinging the nerf bat (though them changing SC to a 1000 TP attack is kinda lol). I like it.

I'm actually not bothered by the changes to WAR.
The adjustment to Collusion WILL NOT create enmity issues for WAR.
Warrior has so many hate tools I honestly can't complain about this "nerf"

Over reactions left right and center.... all SE did is even out war and pld. While am a little but hurt (my main is war) i could see this a mile away. Am sure every one could don't pretend you didn't know.

Seems as though WAR now requires more skill to play beyond simple cyclone spam.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoshikogi

Seems as though WAR now requires more skill to play beyond simple cyclone spam.

---

Yep, you can still tank.... just that you need to rotate skills not spame the same shit over and over

With rampage revamped for increased parry, is Overpower more useful now? It's on a 5-6 second cooldown and hits all mobs in a cone and costs little TP. If parry is decent enough, it's damage could add up over time (not to mention the pacification skill)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carlosx

was realy nesesary?

do SE notice now we dont have a tank?

---

Was not the original idea the Paladin being the tanking powerhouse and the Warrior being a DD powerhouse? so now your whining because you cant do both at the same time. I mean i dont know but i think the point is for every class to have some use at endgame you can still from what i hear either tank or DPS but not both. I dont understand why your so butthurt about this.

Did some quick testing on the 5 star GC leves at Halatali. Every mob was level 52.

With Rampage up, Steel Cyclone crit damage ranged from ~500-1000 against the same mob. What caused the difference?

When only one mob was attacking me, Steel Cyclone did 500-600 damage. When I had 3+ mobs attacking me, Steel Cyclone did 800-1000 damage. Now take a look at the patch notes on Rampage:

Quote:

---

<Before>
Increases your attack speed and power for each physical attack against you, and restores HP for each critical hit you land.
<After>
Increases your attack speed and parry rating for each physical attack against you, and restores HP for each critical hit you land.
・Effect now wears off at a faster rate.

---

My guess is that the effect on Rampage decays so quickly that it can never be fully stacked when fighting only one mob. Thus, you will never get the full bonus damage to Steel Cyclone unless you are tanking multiple mobs.

This is all just eyeballing of course. Wish I had some numbers pre-patch so that I could compare. If someone wants to do better testing, please feel free to do so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ranulf

Just goes to show you, SE has learned nothing from XI.

You don't achieve balance by taking the good and making it bad, you take the bad and make it better.

---

This. Will they ever learn?

Warror is my main class. The emnity thing regarding Collusion isn't an issue for myself. I've never relied on it for any strategical fights, but Steel Cycle something rather useful. Incredibly useful in fact. I didn't rely on it for DD, but to kite, which is something I've always seen the WAR class good as in regards to tanking styles. PLD is the "sit there and take it in the face" type class, which should have been buffed for balance, not put next to a WAR nerf for balance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kro

Did some quick testing on the 5 star GC leves at Halatali. Every mob was level 52.

With Rampage up, Steel Cyclone crit damage ranged from ~500-1000 against the same mob. What caused the difference?

When only one mob was attacking me, Steel Cyclone did 500-600 damage. When I had 3+ mobs attacking me, Steel Cyclone did 800-1000 damage. Now take a look at the patch notes on Rampage:



My guess is that the effect on Rampage decays so quickly that it can never be fully stacked when fighting only one mob. Thus, you will never get the full bonus damage to Steel Cyclone unless you are tanking multiple mobs.

This is all just eyeballing of course. Wish I had some numbers pre-patch so that I could compare. If someone wants to do better testing, please feel free to do so.

---

This is just speculation, but it appears as though PLD and WAR damage is almost equal now vs. a single target while tanking. Warrior has only one viable and spamable weaponskill (30 second recast) chain set while tanking while Paladin has two (both at 1 minute recast which can easily be alternated). Against a lv 52 monster in natalan Goring Blade provided ~550 points of damage while a full (or nearly full) Spirits within did ~750 damage (and phalanx can be spamable for ~280 damge ever 6 seconds for 250 tp with Divine Veil active). Please note that this information was gathered before this hotfix, so Goring blade may well do over 600+ damage against these foes.

It seems SE has finally made war into the optimal AoE tank without overshadowing PLD capacity on single target bosses.

true but still pld didnt get anything in this patch at all to help. War is still better than pld. Hollowed Ground is only good for holy shit moments really. The HP they dont lose now from changing from Gla doesnt help. the only minimal extra dmg from the ws dont help. not saying that Pld should even come close to the dmg that war can but haviong and Aoe emnity combo with a short timers would help alot.

PLD recieved some decent upgraded mechanics. They are subtle, but still better than nothing. And now warrior was brought down to earth. I cannot wait to test the new mechanics on my PLD and WAR. /excitement

Also, Mighty strikes isn't much better. As a tank I place increased damage invulnerability over short duration, increased damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

not saying that Pld should even come close to the dmg that war can but haviong and Aoe emnity combo with a short timers would help alot.

---

War Drum seems unchanged since launch back in 2009. An overhaul of this would probably be adequate; as for now it DOES NOT generate "Massive Enmity" as it's description suggests; atleast not by 1.21 standards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoshikogi

PLD recieved some decent upgraded mechanics. They are subtle, but still better than nothing. And now warrior was brought down to earth. I cannot wait to test the new mechanics on my PLD and WAR. /excitement

Also, Mighty strikes isn't much better. As a tank I place increased damage invulnerability over short duration, increased damage.

---

There isnt much to test though the only thing pld got besides not losing hp from switching from pld is Hollowed Ground which isnt all that great. I havent tested the dmg of the Gla ws but iv heard in to a bit increase either and still they are the single aoe hitting ws that dont help pld much keeping hate either.

I tested war today as the usual speed run tank, I think the only real complaint I have is that the rampage timer is pretty terrible on chim/other bosses, I'd go between 60 - 300 dmg with cyclones on chim because it's hard to get hit often enough to refresh it (rather sure of this, since it increased consistently if I used enduring march). So basically, even while tanking it's hard to even get your full dps out which I think IS retarded considering every other faceroll dps has buffs refreshed easily.

In better news, my war could still top AoE DPS next to (good) blms on the aoe spots in AV/CC so I really don't have any complaints with how the dmg on cyclone in dungeons and such works. also I can spam overpower to no end now when aoeing which actually is kind of a buff in the end. Most of my healers say they barely have to heal me now in dungeons, 4k healing done on chims, coin, etc etc. (although this was pretty true even before)

I think people are going to start realizing who the bad war tanks are to say the least though, and to be honest I feel bad for tanks since SE barely buffed pld and nerfed war to the point where you have to be on the ball a bit more... ah well! At least they love face roll blms more than us even though war never "broke" any primal fights, *cough cough*.

Who wants to bet that OP hasn't even played WAR since the update?

The increases parry rate from Rampage is really noticeable, with 2 mobs 2 levels above I was able to use Overpower maybe 3x as much as I used to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoshikogi

With rampage revamped for increased parry, is Overpower more useful now? It's on a 5-6 second cooldown and hits all mobs in a cone and costs little TP. If parry is decent enough, it's damage could add up over time (not to mention the pacification skill)

---

best part is if you are fast enough you can get the other parry WS off as well on one parry

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoshikogi

This is just speculation, but it appears as though PLD and WAR damage is almost equal now vs. a single target while tanking. Warrior has only one viable and spamable weaponskill (30 second recast) chain set while tanking while Paladin has two (both at 1 minute recast which can easily be alternated). Against a lv 52 monster in natalan Goring Blade provided ~550 points of damage while a full (or nearly full) Spirits within did ~750 damage (and phalanx can be spamable for ~280 damge ever 6 seconds for 250 tp with Divine Veil active). Please note that this information was gathered before this hotfix, so Goring blade may well do over 600+ damage against these foes.

It seems SE has finally made war into the optimal AoE tank without overshadowing PLD capacity on single target bosses.

---

I can easily use all 3 combos on WAR on any boss. Not quite sure why the other 2 combos are not viable lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mister-Wonderful

I can easily use all 3 combos on WAR on any boss. Not quite sure why the other 2 combos are not viable lol.

---

This^^

Rookies.

Also - from the explanation of Rampage it doesn't enhance physical attack damage at all anymore. Only speed, and parry. rate.

Bleeeh </3 the forums - bunch of trolls.

Downsides since the patch: SC doesn't do the insane amount of damage that it always used to when fighting one-on-one against a mob. Hit groups of mobs for far more damage, suppose it's to be expected with the new decay rate.

Upsides: I now partially/full parry at a ridiculous rate. Good for Overpower.

WAR is still fine and sexy.

Steel cyclone dmg is still buffed by rampage..

Steel Cyclone range being nerf was completely justified, but the collusion nerf kinda bugs me.

Collusion used to transfer 100% enmity, now its only about 50%. Increasing the recast timer for Collusion would have been a better solution.

So the Steel Cyclone Range was nerfed... good I thought I translated it wrong since it had damage was nerfed on the NA translation :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carlosx

was realy nesesary?

do SE notice now we dont have a tank?

---

Troll-tastical! They changed an obvious inbalance. Deal with it. Anyone worht their salt can tank on GLD, PLD, WAR, and probably MRD.
Stop crying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Suirieko

I am concerned about the impact Collusion nerf could have.

---

if you seriously relly on Collusion to be able to tank then you should quit tanking, i can tank fine with out collusion and have no problem with hate. have done it before so the nerf to collusion is nothing too bad

tbh i think these changes was to try get people to start using PLD for stuff, sorry SE not gonna happen

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carlosx

was realy nesesary?

do SE notice now we dont have a tank?

---

yes, war was way overpowered, even wars were saying it was needed,

and also, we have a tank, it's called Paladin, try looking it up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vanguard319

yes, war was way overpowered, even wars were saying it was needed,

and also, we have a tank, it's called Paladin, try looking it up

---

WAR is also tank in FF14 if you didn't know.
Go look at the 2.0 UI Image

After the update every group I have done cc, av and hamlets and guess what group still continue using WAR as the main tank over a PLD. At this point in time I would still use a WAR tank over a PLD, as a WAR is still a better tank. The issue we have here is that we now have 8 man parties, and combat is much faster than in FFXI, and this will continue to put PLD's at a disadvantage.

Tried WAR on Ifrit and there is a noticeable decrease in Steel Cyclone's damage, however the rampage change wasn't bad at all and the extra parry rate is noticeable.

WAR still tanks Ifrit better than PLD.

Riot blade's damage is better, and 400ish HP more is... not as great as SE makes it look, I'm still 600hp less than my WAR, and the MP issue is still there along with the laughable shield block rate.

So from what I've seen, WAR is still the better tank.

been doing a quick CC speedrun, and WAR is still better than PLD by far.
the only thing i found ridicolous, was the fact that my crits were hitting Chimera for 70-120 dmg with Rampage.
i'm not having hate issues, but i'm still standing by my conclusion that they should have buffed PLD to actually make it a "real" tank, meaning that he should have by far alot more DEF and HP than WAR etc.
WAR is supposed to be the DMG tank and PLD the def tank, but it doesn't appear to me this way.

looking at the DD classes like DRG & MNK, WAR just seems too weak to compare to them now, and when you think about WAR you think about brute power, after all we wear a huge 2 handed axe =P

anyways, who cares, shit is still looking good for WARs, SE just managed to screw around with its players again, and i'm sure that we will see many more rebalancing in the future, so meh, i'm still rocking as a WAR tank XD (tho. i'm missing my PLD tank a bit already ; ; )

lol really, instead of nerf war honestly make PLD better....
i wouldnt mind to have PLD tank and war focus on DD, but compare to mnk/drg war still inferior dmg...so really if you want WAR to focus on DD make em better instead of nerfing it and buffing other jobs, SE way to fail lol

If you depend on Steel cyclone- then you are doing it all wrong: Se said

They need to add 300 mp per tick on paladin- make flash 2000 damage worth of enmity make flash use about 300mp - recast timer 1minute
sub flash should only get 1000 damage worth of enmity - Give every skill that paladin have increase enemity by 100-
but make paladin damage lower and increase deffense % of paladin vs warrior - so 1 deffense = 2 deffense naturally on paladin - for example paladin get hit by ifrit for 200 dammage normally by ifrit- while warrior get hit for 400 unless parrying. Problem solved