Stop ignoring Crystalline Conflict

I am extremely pissed off at the state of Crystalline Conflict.

First of all, everybody just does whatever they want and never try to do any tactics or use strategies. This is worsened by the fact that you have extremely limited communication where not even a simple "yes" or "no" can be found. Secondly, so many people have absolutely no idea what they are doing resulting in the same things happening again and again instead of having them improve by giving them tips or explaining certain things. Since you can't talk you can't give any tips. Queueing up with friends (or other people in general) to compensate for the lack of communication? yeah not possible because it's completely solo. Another problem is that you can get the same people you were with a previous match again in your team or enemy team. This is just rolling dice for a win or loss at this point. Because of the lack of communication, the same teammates will make the same mistakes again and again. Waiting 2 minutes and then joining queue is not a solution as people have suggested before. There is a reason why so many other games have a system in place to where it prevents that (also to prevent trolling and such).

Then there are the more minor problems like random instakills. This is just fundamentally wrong to have in a pvp gamemode. Oneshotting is something of the same nature that does not belong in any sort of pvp game.

Calling the gamemode "Casual Match" and giving roughly the same amount of exp for a win or a loss are just two of the factors as to why people are not even trying their best in matches. Pvp is inherently competitive and to suggest otherwise is lunacy. Making a "casual" mode will result in people not really caring or trying to win, ruining the games for everyone else. Why would you even queue up for pvp in the first place if you just wanted to do something casual? 700 series exp for a loss versus 900 series exp for a win only enforces this bad behavior more.

These are just some of the things that are messed up about this gamemode or pvp in general. I seriously can't stand that people don't even bat an eye and just pretend everything is fine with these sorts of things.

You are not the arbiter of PvP. You can be as salty as you want, you don't get to dictate how others play.

Should SE incentivise certain (good) behaviour? Yes. Am I glad chat is as limited? ...um.. yes, actually. lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NimRyo

First of all, everybody just does whatever they want and never try to do any tactics or use strategies. This is worsened by the fact that you have extremely limited communication where not even a simple "yes" or "no" can be found.

Chat being restricted is great. Prevents trucktons of toxicity. I haven't once had my sexuality questioned yet, nor had anyone make insinuations about my mom. Well worth it.

Queueing up with friends (or other people in general) to compensate for the lack of communication? yeah not possible because it's completely solo. Another problem is that you can get the same people you were with a previous match again in your team or enemy team. This is just rolling dice for a win or loss at this point. Because of the lack of communication, the same teammates will make the same mistakes again and again.

If you are in the same matches as them and you KNOW how they are going to play, since you clearly know better than them, just adapt. Realistically, the "My teammates suck" arguement is kind of an old one in PvP centric games.

Waiting 2 minutes and then joining queue is not a solution as people have suggested before. There is a reason why so many other games have a system in place to where it prevents that (also to prevent trolling and such).Then there are the more minor problems like random instakills. This is just fundamentally wrong to have in a pvp gamemode. Oneshotting is something of the same nature that does not belong in any sort of pvp game.

This one I will give you FULL STOP. There should be ZERO insta kill mechanics in PvP. SAM Ult and Chainsaw need readjusting, BADLY.

Calling the gamemode "Casual Match" and giving roughly the same amount of exp for a win or a loss are just two of the factors as to why people are not even trying their best in matches. Pvp is inherently competitive and to suggest otherwise is lunacy. Making a "casual" mode will result in people not really caring or trying to win, ruining the games for everyone else. Why would you even queue up for pvp in the first place if you just wanted to do something casual? 700 series exp for a loss versus 900 series exp for a win only enforces this bad behavior more.

I agree that EXP totals could be further apart, but your assertion that there inherently cannot be a casual competitive state is just asinine. Not everything requires balls to the walls levels of competition. Mario Party and Mario Kart would suck if I couldn't joke with my friends and have fun while racing. Just as an example. If you want the competitive version, play Ranked. I can promise you, people do in fact play more seriously there.

---

Bolded my responses. Some of the things you say have merit. It is honestly annoying when people brush aside legit complaints out of hand, especially if they aren't actively invested in the mode. Had to snip some quotes for length.

These are not demands but simple observations and research. Take them however you want to perceive them but can you at least uphold a standard? If you think this is a godhood way of thinking please look at what other successful pvp games can achieve and give me an actual reason not to be "salty" when this gamemode isn't even comparable to mid tier pvp games. There is no reason not to further improve the gamemode. Not even financial reasons since it's only very small changes that you could implement that require no time.

I have yet to find anybody with any better or more reasonable solutions other than "just play ranked".

Also why would you want limited chat. If people abuse others in an open chat in whatever way shape or form just ban them. You will get rid of the toxic people and you get to actually communicate with your team. Two birds with one stone.

> casual mode
> everybody just does whatever they want
> casual mode
> giving roughly the same amount of exp for a win or a loss
> casual mode
> people are not even trying their best in matches.

> Oneshotting is something of the same nature that does not belong in any sort of pvp game.
> AWP OP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NimRyo

These are not demands but simple observations and research. Take them however you want to perceive them but can you at least uphold a standard? If you think this is a godhood way of thinking please look at what other successful pvp games can achieve and give me an actual reason not to be "salty" when this gamemode isn't even comparable to mid tier pvp games. There is no reason not to further improve the gamemode. Not even financial reasons since it's only very small changes that you could implement that require no time.

I have yet to find anybody with any better or more reasonable solutions other than "just play ranked".

Because this is ultimately the right answer. You want competition. You want people to try and play serious. That is literally exactly what ranked is for. The opposite is also true. People HAVE to have a place to try new classes, relax and enjoy the mode or simply learn. That is casual. Most big MOBA and Arena style games have this division and for very good reason.

Also why would you want limited chat. If people abuse others in an open chat in whatever way shape or form just ban them. You will get rid of the toxic people and you get to actually communicate with your team. Two birds with one stone.

Because people suck. I don't need an armchair general ordering me around, or someone calling me slurs. I don't want to have to wait for them to get banned after they have already ruined my match. Limited chat solves the problem before it is ever an issue.

---

Once again responded to your passages in the text above.

Crystalline Conflict team is like a box a chocolate, you don't know what your going to get. rank goes up rank goes down rank goes up rank goes down . 200 matches later and still trying to get the next rank. over all. iam still trying to get that silver. and I will keep trying

Adapting is easily said but quite hard in reality since most of the time people just attack whoever is closest to them and since everybody is focusing someone else in most cases, it can get very fuzzy and your damage will be spread out and outlived by the enemy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lennit

Crystalline Conflict team is like a box a chocolate, you don't know what your going to get. rank goes up rank goes down rank goes up rank goes down . 200 matches later and still trying to get the next rank. over all. iam still trying to get that silver. and I will keep trying

---

I completely agree with this only my suggestions would try to make it less like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Payadopa

You are not the arbiter of PvP. You can be as salty as you want, you don't get to dictate how others play.

Should SE incentivise certain (good) behaviour? Yes. Am I glad chat is as limited? ...um.. yes, actually. lol

---

I literally want an open chat to give advice and tips to people, how do see that as me trying to dictate what other people should do, it's advice......

CC needs toning down or diminishing returns needs to be implemented.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NimRyo

First of all, everybody just does whatever they want and never try to do any tactics or use strategies. Since you can't talk you can't give any tips.

---

I assure you none of your random teammates in a 5-minute match are interested in hearing "tips" from another random teammate, no matter how benevolent your intent.

Quick chat allows you to call and mark targets, advise your team to advance or fall back, and communicate the status of your LB charge.
There are several more options I'd like to see added, mostly in the realm of "<target> has LB" or "<target> is flanking us" in place of fluff like "sorry" and "everyone, attack!".
There are lots of good suggestions in QooEr's thread.
CC has zero strategic depth, and most of the important tactical decisions are made on the fly, so it's unclear where the benefits of text comm would outweigh the enormous downsides.
You only have time to type when you're waiting to respawn, when the things you have to say are least likely to be constructive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NimRyo

Then there are the more minor problems like random instakills. Oneshotting is something of the same nature that does not belong in any sort of pvp game.

---

Random instakills absolutely shouldn't exist in PvP, but the only random instakill is the 3% proc on MCH's Chainsaw.
It's stupid and should be removed, but I can count on one finger the number of matches I've been in where the outcome turned on it.
One-shots in general not belonging in PvP, though? There are one-shot mechanics in virtually every PvP game I've ever played,
and the only other true one-shot in CC is Zentetsuken under specific conditions. Nothing else is just 100% to dead in one move.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NimRyo

Calling the gamemode "Casual Match" and giving roughly the same amount of exp for a win or a loss are just two of the factors as to why people are not even trying their best in matches.

---

Again, this is a weird thing to suggest isn't normal for PvP.
Call it Casual Match, or Quick Match, or Quick Play; some version of this exists in virtually every PvP title on the market.
It's a place to screw around, try new jobs, experiment, and generally not take things too seriously.
If you're the guy in Casual Mode seething because folks aren't playing hard to win, you're the one who's wrong, not them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NimRyo

I seriously can't stand that people don't even bat an eye and just pretend everything is fine with these sorts of things.

---

The problems you listed are as follows:

1. Your teammates don't play the way you want them to.
2. You can't yell at them for it, order them around, or tell them how to play.
3. You don't like the random instakills that don't exist.
4. You don't think people should play so casually in Casual Mode.

Everyone is fine with these sorts of things because they're fine.

Chat being enabled during a match probably is iffy because most of it isn’t going to be constructive while you’re actually in game and people are heated about what’s going on. But it might be better to have a better way to discuss it in game outside of matches and get takes on what you could do better/whether or not a strategy is right, aside from hanging out in the wolves den.

There’s apparently a lot of people who still don’t know how some of the map effects work tens of games in (chocobo feathers on wind map, buff orbs on fire map, etc…), and a bizarre number of people who seem to believe things like never hitting tanks even if they’re half health and out of mana, even though that’s the exact time a tank should be focused and killed off. The quality of games overall would probably go up if people could chat about this kind of common sense stuff like that in game, instead of leaving players to stew in their own rage without having any way to find out what could be done better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NimRyo

I literally want an open chat to give advice and tips to people, how do see that as me trying to dictate what other people should do, it's advice......

---

Trust me, you cannot trust anyone with open chat, even yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Payadopa

You are not the arbiter of PvP. You can be as salty as you want, you don't get to dictate how others play.

Should SE incentivise certain (good) behaviour? Yes. Am I glad chat is as limited? ...um.. yes, actually. lol

---

This is why part of me is worried about trying to coach people now. You have people who have a huge influence in the outcome of your game with rank at stake and "you don't get to dictate how others play", it feels like trying to coach would be grounds for a report. Just quick macros with very specific instructions is all I want like "Don't split at the start", because so many people attempting to leeroy costs matches.....and of course not to get banned for it..

You know how you don’t want to take advice from random players of the same rank saying go ahead and split as needed to secure kills? They equally don’t want to take advice from you about what you think they should do. It usually will not go over the way you’re imagining it will.

“Don’t split at the start” isn’t even a catch all, considering how often I have to babysit our healer in upper ranks when palaistra comes up, due to drg/nin/rdm hit squads on the other team sitting on the speed boost track trying to get a quick pick on our backline in the first engage. Splitting to flank is so obnoxiously strong in that map that I have to open with fake engage, purify, sprint backwards and cover the whm or friendly ranged half the time I’m there, because it’ll take all of 4 seconds for them to start getting gangbanged by packs of rabid dps high on racetrack zoomies coming in behind us

Really? Because all that happens in my matches is the DRG goes straight in and before we can conceivably react the DRG has already been blown to pieces and it's a 4v5.
All because of a choice THEY made that didn't jive with the rest of us.
It CAN work....but you need to communicate it and guess what we can't do properly in the current state of the game!

Yes. Going in 1v5 first and guarding immediately to open fights works up until about plat, since it’s a bait that basically absorbs half the cc and cooldowns on the enemy team for free. Easy way to win the first fight in low elo since they don’t know this is a thing and blow cooldowns immediately, and then steamroll because players tilt so easily when they really shouldn’t in such a swingy game mode.

Stops working when you climb enough for players catch onto it being a thing/just wait to blow you up after the guard is over.

At higher ranks usually the tank engages if a high priority job does something stupid and steps too close during the opening dance, and it works because the rest of the team actually follows up. On maps like palaistra, high damage jobs often use one of the tracks to try to flank and burst someone down, since three players cc chaining someone who isn’t ready for it can very quickly drop them before players can react. You often get into an awkward dance as you threaten to move close enough to engage while they move back and forth on the track threatening to commit to the split if the other team screws up.

I agree that there should be communication. It's a team game. I know and understand that people want to avoid the toxicity that dominates so many other games, but, well, at what cost? It's a team game that you can only play with people you don't know and you cannot communicate with them. It feels like a very bland experience after a while. And there's another issue here that people don't seem to take into consideration: as a result of the lack of communication and the impossibility of playing with friends, Crystalline Conflict - and as extension the entire PvP - is a very, very lonely experience. You can't talk. You can't make friends. You can't share your experiences with your own friends. There is absolutely no social aspect to that part of the game.

That also adds to the "randomness" of the results.

You are also right that matchmaking should prevent situations where you get repeatedly matched with / against the same player.

I disagree with your comments on the casual matches, though. That should indeed exist, and that's precisely the place where you should try out new jobs or strategies, or just turn off your brain for a while and smash buttons.

the whole point of the ranking system is your supposed to rank up into groups that take it seriously but the +/- on the matchmaking makes sure that never happens.
I think they did it for the sake of faster queues but it does feel pretty flawed

I think they did it because FFXIV is designed with this philosophy in mind everywhere. Dont stress anyone, every button is equal, every skill level is fine. The whole idea of skill differences mattering is a big problem as you can see in a myriad of design decisions. Those of us who care enough to post here and try to become better are the tiny minority I guess. Its supposedly great that I get matched against players who have trouble reacting quick enough to me just splatting them because they need to click their self-heal. Or that I can matched with teammates who just charge in alone, respawn, and run in again. Its all good, fine gameplay as intended.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niyuka

I think they did it because FFXIV is designed with this philosophy in mind everywhere. Dont stress anyone, every button is equal, every skill level is fine. The whole idea of skill differences mattering is a big problem as you can see in a myriad of design decisions. Those of us who care enough to post here and try to become better are the tiny minority I guess. Its supposedly great that I get matched against players who have trouble reacting quick enough to me just splatting them because they need to click their self-heal. Or that I can matched with teammates who just charge in alone, respawn, and run in again. Its all good, fine gameplay as intended.

---

And saying it's just casual is false, too.

If i wasn't lazy i would post some scoreboards with me, the ast, outdpsing every single person in my team, dying less, taking more damage (sometimes, not all the time, am not perfect), etc.
On Crystal.
The thing is, not being able to lose rank just means that people just need to get lucky with streaks to get anywhere.

And I don't think its bad to expect people in crystal to NOT to the panic thing after a wipe to run in 1v5 every time just to horribly die.
I don't think it's bad to expect your team doing more than, say 300000 damage. That's really low and i have a lot of screens with people doing that amount or under.

Being bad in casual and low ranks is fine, but one could expect ranked to be better, which it just isn't.

As "salty" as the op may seem, there is nothing wrong with expecting people to at least press buttons, y'know?
But taking something a little serious around here is a nono it seems like. You don't need to tryhard to be decent and if you try a little bit, it suddenly becomes more fun.

Casual mode is just that casual. However I find Crystalline and pvp overall in FF trash tier with the majority of the player base tunnel visioned or facerolling a keyboard who cant focus fire in ranked. I've seriously seen PUGS in 10 man Warsong and AB focus targets better in WoW compared to our community and I've been with FFXIV since beta and 1.0 which is sad. There's ALOT of issues with the PvP mode and one shotting is just a little fluff to be mindful of positioning and learning to who to avoid.

Try coming into a ranked match with two actual healers WHM and SCH or a AST and hope that after the DRG or SAM is downed that you're team of random derps is actually going to focus fire and not try pummeling the warrior whilst the healers are free casting its a shambles there really needs to be a limitation of what roles are allowed in a match preferably 1 tank 1 healer and 3 dps to balance matches. I've been trying to climb out silver as i enjoy competition of ranked but its banging head against a wall frustration when matched with people who can't focus fire on specific targets >.<

No open chat you FF flower wouldn't be able to handle it trust and believe Im one of them that get very toxic when I notice people being the bad.
This wont help anything sorry I though maybe this would be cool back when it first dropped but then as I was climbing to Crystal I notice the constant clicking of GM or Nice job yeah no lets not go there, You think you want it but you don't.

This one shot BS is getting annoying too Sam is too powerful, Mch shouldn't have a one shot... WHAT! Ive played over 600 games and 1/3 of that was Mch and I only seen that proc once..so what does that have to do with anything with cheating or team fights. Yes I would be happy if they just mad it a 16k or 12k aoe dmg shot but to totally remove it without a solution is only screwing with the balance of power thats already an issue and trust me Mch and Sam are not the problem

Wanna know how to beat any sam. Here you go attention and distance, If a sam is dumb enough to fight 1v1 run from them when their about to cast break line of sight and heal when needed not at 3/4 1/4 to 1/2 being the highest sams can only do a max 24k dmg(28k if debuffed) with 2 GCDs. They cant kill you, if you have low mana thats your fault for over healing or getting caught out without a plan or noting where heals on demand are at. Oh they have 3 dashes Yeah and keep going till they use them its a 20s CD bait them or stall them from the party make their number game a flop. Oh but they have CC only purify the stun.. done. If you see stickers floating you cant cc other then imp for like 6 secs so run after that they can't do any thing but purify. Oh but we were talking about the one shot right you see them have a buff on them or the sam is spinning their sword for the more sharp eyed people dont hit them. But what if I do hit them... spread out run till the debuff is gone dont guard you will only die, only one person might die if you dont imp him or silence before they try to use it guess what should pay more attention. BUT WAIT there's more! if you CC with even a bind they cant use it "BOOOM" mind blown I know anything but a heavy will stop it and give you enough time get the debuff off you . Merry Xmas kids now go out and kill sam, also stop trying to nerf them more Jeez.

And believe if they turn it in to a 30k AOE Lb or 50% but I don't need the debuff believe Ill main sam and 1v9 everyone that isn't a sam

Observe how people are playing and play off them you will never get a perfect team but if you can find at least one person each match that is doing plays start thinking of combos off of them you be surprise how much you can carry with 2 competent people and 3 meat shields. Also note even if you done believe so team comp does make a difference though they player pushing the buttons make the most difference you can note if they have a tank or not or if they have alot of CC or not.


I do this every match even in causal and I come out with at leave 7-14 kills 1-2mil dmg and depending on if I tank or heal could be the same

How about We get better before jumping on to builds when you haven't even played every class and mastered one

And like earlier causal is causal its a pool of all skill groups just playing to play, you want to win with some what competent player go play rank make it to crystal and see what really cheaters are like. Trust and believe you wont want open chat then.


Also though the leeroy tactic isn't 100% good but sometimes needed when you dont have a tank or if your team hesitant BUT expect to die and its only worth if your team gets one kill in exchange and it has to be priority like a healer or melee or tank
sometimes it can't throw the enemy in disarray but this is usually in the lower ranks thats the only way your living from that. If your a power role never do this only melee can this even be an option