Additional Variant Jobs?

You know that thing the Arcanist has, where it can promote into Summoner and Scholar both? I always found it a little strange more classes didn't do that, and it got me thinking a big think, figuring 'Yanno, there's other classes that could have variant jobs like that, to cast their abilities in a new light!'. Also, figured I'd try two ways to give the wand-and-shield combo a bit more use, as it...kinda falls off. These four are what I got so far(no mechanics...I'm not confident enough in my jargon to say such things) If anyone else has some too, I'd LOVE to hear, and brainstorming is also fine. But without further ado:


-The Geomancer(GMC)(casting DPS, derives from White Mage)
Imagine, if you would, that some NPCs were as sick of WHM's relative helplessness as the players are. Imagine if one of these poeple, an elezen by name of Tambouraine, had his frustrations, as well as his hatred of those damned Stropers, boil over so hard, he was removed from the Conjurer's Guild. Did he give up? Hell no! Instead, he retreated deep into the Twelveswood to refine his art and commune with the elementals as best he could, so as to come up with ways to make better use of the power of nature for offensive purposes, so as to destroy the enemies of the Twelves wood(and those damned Stropers!) with greater ease. People had thought Tambouraine had vanished(likely down some Stroper's maw) but rumors of his activity have picked up steam, especially around Camp Tranquil, plagued as they are with Stropers...

-The Bulwark(BLW)(tank, derives from Lancer)
What could a Lancer learn from the Ishgardians? It was this question that prompted Hepapa Manpapa, skilled lancer, armor affectionado and self-styled 'manliest lalafell around', to venture there and see how they go about their business. And what he saw inspired him. Gleaming maille! Iron plate! Majestic shields! Hepapa wasted no time in adapting what he learned in the colds of Coerthas and ended up developing his own style, with light lances, heavy armor and massive Greatshields used for offense and defense alike. It's said that, nowadays, he's been sighted around Camp Dragonhead seeking out rough, tumble and willing disciples...

And here's the other two:


-The Berserker(BSK)(melee DPS, derives from Marauder)
The Marauders are ever taught to defend others with their axes and their powerful bodies, but not all of them take well to such a role. So it was with formerly famed pirate facebreaker J'Rakna Tia, also known as 'Black Lightning' by others and 'J'Rakna Nunh' by himself. He was all about defending others with his ax, yes, but he always focused more on doing so by smashing his foes into the pavement quickly. Noticing the diffrences in style, he parted from the Marauder's Guild amicably, with advice to refine his own style and raise it up, which is exactly what he set out to do. He's since settled down in Swiftperch, where a swift, brutal axe is always helpful in subduing the Serpent Reavers...

-The Necromancer(NCR)(healer, derives from Black Mage)
The funerary arts of Ul'Dah are well known to double as powerful offensive magic, but that is not all they can be used for. Some of their arts were also known to wield great healing applications, staving off death where it was unwelcome, though the minds of the wicked twisted those arts into necromancy, which caused them to be banned, and justly so. But secrets have a way of cropping back up, and this time, it was a noble soul who found them: mild-mannered Roegadyn thaumaturge and doctor Gentle Mercy, during an expedition to Sil'Dih, is said to have found some of the writings the ancient Necromancers left behind, good and ill alike...

Oh, that thing SE has been trying to get rid of since Heavensward?

The 'Two Jobs from one Class' idea was an experiment that sadly SE determined was a failure a long time ago and hence they have long abandoned any further plans to expand the system - as it is all new Jobs are classless so the idea is moot anyway (and it seems that they're trying to subtly move SCH away from ACN/SMN, suggesting it may be eventually remade into it's own independent Job completely).

And, although your ideas have merit, three of the classes you've mentioned are already kind of in the game anyway in a different form and so would be redundant and the fourth is basically a revival of a class SE scrapped in 1.0 and rolled into GLA/PLD (SE stated they'll never add an actual Necromancer class due to cultural concerns in Asian countries about depicting skeletons and the dead, specifically China - RPR is the compromise and thus the closest that you will ever get to that sort of thing; Berserker is literally a more aggressive WAR; Geomancer is actually what CNJ is called in the Far East (with a little bit of AST on the side); and Bulwark sounds like adding the scrapped Sentinel class from 1.0 to lances (which is an impossibility given lances are considered two-handed weapons and sp prevent a shield in the offhand anyway).

I'm really sorry for pouring cold water on your ideas (and it's clear you have given them a lot of thought), but all too often it's too easy to fall into the trap of coming up with a new class idea, only to end with something that merely rehashes an existing class with a different skin, something that SE themselves are all too mindful of (it's why I'm loathe to make up my own class/Job ideas).

It's fine, man, feedback's feedback. :p Good call about the Necromancer, though I'll admit I was a little inspired by the Spectral Necromancer for that one. Suppose I can always retool the idea some(unless someone else has ideas).

That said, for the Bulwark, I'm not talking about what the game calls lances(which are just spears with lance heads). I'm talking ACTUAL lances, which are held in one hand traditionally.

As for the Marauder...well, giant axes are, as far as I know, a fairly traditional DPS weapon, so I figured, why not try and devise something around using it that way while keeping mobile, as classical Berserkers were known to eschew heavy armor?

And the Geomancer...well, that stems from some of my own frustrations around WHM. I really dig the idea of using natural phenomena to deal damage, but loathe the idea of it being chained to a borderline-helpless healer class, which to me just feels like a waste of a perfectly good concept(which is partly why I cast Tambouraine the way I did).

I kind of hope they cap us at 99 in 7.0, and instead let us level new sub-jobs after that, so you'd have 99+10 levels. Level 99 Scholar plus 10 levels of Geomancer or Onmyoji or whatever healer sub-job stuck on top.

Unlikely, but hey, a guy can dream.

All those ideas are awesome and quite old. Geomancer would be awesome along the others as deviations from known jobs, as you said. But I pretty much think they wont do it. Instead, I think they would do them in future expansions related to the "new world" (a continent not yet explored in the world Hydaelyn - Source). Sometimes I dream about jobs like Oracle, Geomancer, Druid, Warden, Seeker, etc. With a base from tribal cultures well organized, using animals and spiritual realm as their power source and with a new race to make our chars.

Geomancer would be a DPS using elemental materials as weapons (such as vines, stones, water, etc. Like a "DPS version" of the Conjurer).
Druid could be a healer using chants and spirits from animals (maybe old primals?) as a souce of their power. They could use spiritual sources for their spells on the animations.
Warden (based on D&D), would be a tanker that can change parts of their body for a moment in different forms (wolf, bear, wood, etc) each having different results (agility, defense buffs, etc).
And Oracle is pretty much covered by scholars and AST right now. But the job could be a DPS version of those two, somehow. They could use stars, cards and "visions" as their power source. (orbs as their weapons, also).
The Seeker would be a type of "Scoult" like the archers, but instead of going into music (bard) they chose to go as trackers and hunters. They could use an animal (not spiritual, or summoned, just an actual and real animal like a fox, a wolf or a hawk) as a companion using them to create "combos" and effects.

Your idea is amazing! But I think they would go for something "done" and linked to the new places they will create (sadly).

But, what you said could be used as "advanced classes" for each job that actually exists (like specializations since lv90 to vary the building of each character focusing them on more dps, or heals or tankings). Yeah, they probably wont do that as well, but whatever :)

Welcome! This is a pretty regular topic and gets shot down a lot, even by the Devs...but if it's something you're interested in and feel strongly about, by all means go for it.

Who knows right?

I personally find it fun to come up with these things, and then brainstorm about it. Who knows, even if not VARIANT classes, we might come up with entirely new ones. And I'm thinking on how to do this too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Insidhe

It's fine, man, feedback's feedback. :p Good call about the Necromancer, though I'll admit I was a little inspired by the Spectral Necromancer for that one. Suppose I can always retool the idea some(unless someone else has ideas).

That said, for the Bulwark, I'm not talking about what the game calls lances(which are just spears with lance heads). I'm talking ACTUAL lances, which are held in one hand traditionally.

As for the Marauder...well, giant axes are, as far as I know, a fairly traditional DPS weapon, so I figured, why not try and devise something around using it that way while keeping mobile, as classical Berserkers were known to eschew heavy armor?

And the Geomancer...well, that stems from some of my own frustrations around WHM. I really dig the idea of using natural phenomena to deal damage, but loathe the idea of it being chained to a borderline-helpless healer class, which to me just feels like a waste of a perfectly good concept(which is partly why I cast Tambouraine the way I did).

---

The Spectral Job bosses in Hero's Gauntlet are actually the 3 officially deconfirmed jobs from Final Fantasy past. In one way or another, Thief, Berserker, and Necromancer were all stated to not be jobs that will get added to the game.

For Thief and Necromancer, the reasoning is due to a concern of morality. Yoshida does not want the WoL to be associated with necromancy which has been painted as objectively wrong in this world's lore, nor theft which is just always morally wrong.

For Berserker, it's more that WAR kind of is Berserker. Though Warrior in older Final Fantasies is a very staple job, it's identity has always just been "uses the attack command," and so to give WAR more identity in XIV, they basically made it more Berserker.

Personally I don't think having two jobs come out of one class works that well if both jobs are different roles balance wise. If they were the same roles, it would probably be easier to balance without one job being completely different from the other off the bat. But overall I'm indifferent on this subject.

Geomancer is definitely coming, I personally hope its a caster dps. fingers crossed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

The 'Two Jobs from one Class' idea was an experiment that sadly SE determined was a failure a long time ago and hence they have long abandoned any further plans to expand the system - as it is all new Jobs are classless so the idea is moot anyway (and it seems that they're trying to subtly move SCH away from ACN/SMN, suggesting it may be eventually remade into it's own independent Job completely).

And, although your ideas have merit, three of the classes you've mentioned are already kind of in the game anyway in a different form and so would be redundant and the fourth is basically a revival of a class SE scrapped in 1.0 and rolled into GLA/PLD (SE stated they'll never add an actual Necromancer class due to cultural concerns in Asian countries about depicting skeletons and the dead, specifically China - RPR is the compromise and thus the closest that you will ever get to that sort of thing; Berserker is literally a more aggressive WAR; Geomancer is actually what CNJ is called in the Far East (with a little bit of AST on the side); and Bulwark sounds like adding the scrapped Sentinel class from 1.0 to lances (which is an impossibility given lances are considered two-handed weapons and sp prevent a shield in the offhand anyway).

I'm really sorry for pouring cold water on your ideas (and it's clear you have given them a lot of thought), but all too often it's too easy to fall into the trap of coming up with a new class idea, only to end with something that merely rehashes an existing class with a different skin, something that SE themselves are all too mindful of (it's why I'm loathe to make up my own class/Job ideas).

---

Because China is a major player base... Also Necromancers exist in the game... Everywhere... So big doubt they wouldn't do a necromancer class due to offending Asians when the concept is everywhere in the game.

Berserk is literally a Warrior skill

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Insidhe

-The Geomancer(GMC)

---

I don’t put much stock in the “branching jobs”/“split jobs” since it has been a continued issue with SMN/SCH for years, but a lot of people were expecting Geomancer to be the fourth healer after all the Geomancer teasers in Stormblood. Between the AST job quests and Swallow’s Compass, and then the removal of elemental aspects from WHM in ShB, that’s what healers were putting their money on when it came to the next healing job. Instead we got SGE. Which is still cool, don’t get me wrong.

Time Mage/Chronomancer was another job people speculated on after they removed the Time Mage aspects from AST. I think people generally expect it to be a caster DPS when they talk about adding it to FFXIV. Ranger is another (physical ranged DPS), since a lot of people dislike Archer becoming a Bard. I just think that Ranger would end up too similar to MCH, except with a bow and arrow or crossbows. So it would be a bit difficult to really give it an identity and set it apart from the other physical ranged.


I’d be all for them adding any kind of new job. I just don’t think that variants or “branching” jobs should be a thing. Simply because they seem to cause more trouble than they’re worth when you could just add a new job separate from the others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I don’t put much stock in the “branching jobs”/“split jobs” since it has been a continued issue with SMN/SCH for years, but a lot of people were expecting Geomancer to be the fourth healer after all the Geomancer teasers in Stormblood. Between the AST job quests and Swallow’s Compass, and then the removal of elemental aspects from WHM in ShB, that’s what healers were putting their money on when it came to the next healing job. Instead we got SGE. Which is still cool, don’t get me wrong.

Time Mage/Chronomancer was another job people speculated on after they removed the Time Mage aspects from AST. I think people generally expect it to be a caster DPS when they talk about adding it to FFXIV. Ranger is another (physical ranged DPS), since a lot of people dislike Archer becoming a Bard. I just think that Ranger would end up too similar to MCH, except with a bow and arrow or crossbows. So it would be a bit difficult to really give it an identity and set it apart from the other physical ranged.


I’d be all for them adding any kind of new job. I just don’t think that variants or “branching” jobs should be a thing. Simply because they seem to cause more trouble than they’re worth when you could just add a new job separate from the others.

---

To follow up on that thought, there really isn't a point to that system mechanically anymore. In ARR, SMN and SCH shared Arcanist actions, and their jobs actions were built on top of those. There was literally no difference between SMN's Ruin and SCH's Ruin, for example, and each job had the same set of abilities with the exception of different pets and 5 different actions. Presumably, going into future expansions could've resulted in classes continuing to get actions rather than only jobs getting actions, and thus SMN and SCH could continue to share tools they might receive. A system like this in theory could work and could warrant other jobs that split off of classes.

Now, though, SMN and SCH no longer share anything other than a handful of ability names, icons, and animations. Not even the effects are the same as SCH's Ruin has a different potency to SMN's. Classes ended up having actions cut from them and don't gain anything after level 50. So what actually changes by hot gluing GEO onto CNJ's thigh other than free XP? Nothing, other than maybe sharing a few animations. There's nothing to gain from trying to revive this concept and no reason to fight for it because the end result would be identical to just having GEO on its own. I changes nothing about what you'd get if GEO were added. It just sounds like it would do something.

as others have stated the devs have said on numerous occasions that they aren't interested doing another job split like acn/smn/sch again

I'm also surprised they haven't completely separated them yet because behind the scenes over the last two expansions they changed all of SCH abilities that used to be shared/carried over from acn into "unique" sch only variants

The only ability in the sch kit that is still acn/smn/sch is Resurrection
Even the derpy Physick that acn/smn still have sch has it's own unique version of (which really makes me scratch my head as to why they can't make the acn/smn one scale off of int instead of mind but ehhh)

They also stated in a LiveLetter prior to EW that they had strongly considered removing Resurrection from smn but decided to leave it in for now
that's probably the only thing still tethering the jobs together

Personally I think smn should lose it's low level raise and have it replaced with a raise learned at higher level associated with Phoenix for more cohesive identity
could call it Phoenix Pinion for example

Geomancer was their original intention for a WHM offshoot, back before 2.0 was redone, or maybe in it's early planning stages.
Alongside Machinist being the Job evolution of Musketeer, which most likely meant that AST and DRK also had base classes loosely planned. My theory is Astrologian was supposed to be the base class for a Time Mage job, but when they shelved those base class plans they added on the cards mechanics and 'promoted' Astrologian to differentiate it from a full blown Time Mage.

Now that the game has developed and evolved for a decade, Geomancer now is tied to Hingan and Yanxian lore, so it would be odd to split it off from WHM now, the lore just isn't connected anymore.

Necromancer if anything, would be a dps offshoot of WHM, rather than a healer offshoot of BLM. Every existing Necromancer in the game is a former WHM who has bastardised white magic, basically using Raise too late. So it would be a pet based dps job that raises undead minions. But that's not likely to become an actual job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I don’t put much stock in the “branching jobs”/“split jobs” since it has been a continued issue with SMN/SCH for years, but a lot of people were expecting Geomancer to be the fourth healer after all the Geomancer teasers in Stormblood. Between the AST job quests and Swallow’s Compass, and then the removal of elemental aspects from WHM in ShB, that’s what healers were putting their money on when it came to the next healing job. Instead we got SGE. Which is still cool, don’t get me wrong.

Time Mage/Chronomancer was another job people speculated on after they removed the Time Mage aspects from AST. I think people generally expect it to be a caster DPS when they talk about adding it to FFXIV. Ranger is another (physical ranged DPS), since a lot of people dislike Archer becoming a Bard. I just think that Ranger would end up too similar to MCH, except with a bow and arrow or crossbows. So it would be a bit difficult to really give it an identity and set it apart from the other physical ranged.


I’d be all for them adding any kind of new job. I just don’t think that variants or “branching” jobs should be a thing. Simply because they seem to cause more trouble than they’re worth when you could just add a new job separate from the others.

---

I never saw much healer potential in a Geomancer tbh. Most of it's portrayal in the game has been as offensive sorcery, the only healer-like portrayal was via the AST job quests, which didn't showcase an awful lot, and well... no new job has ever been something that was already featured in another jobs job quest. It would end up being way too similar in style to a Conjurer using wind/earth/water spells. If Geomancer would be anything, it would be a caster dps loosely based around the Yanxian branch of Geomancy.


Also AST hasn't had nearly enough of it's Time Mage influence pruned to give Time Mage enough to work with yet. It's still holding onto Gravity and Lightspeed, Celestial Stasis, etc. along with the space motif and the pointy hats with the moon and stars on them.
Classic Time Mage signatures are basically just: pointy purple hat with moon and stars motif, Haste, Slow, Stop and Gravity. (in much the same way as Thief being nothing more than a green bandana, daggers and Steal/Mug)
AST still has the controlling share of that aesthetic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowde

as others have stated the devs have said on numerous occasions that they aren't interested doing another job split like acn/smn/sch again

I'm also surprised they haven't completely separated them yet because behind the scenes over the last two expansions they changed all of SCH abilities that used to be shared/carried over from acn into "unique" sch only variants

The only ability in the sch kit that is still acn/smn/sch is Resurrection
Even the derpy Physick that acn/smn still have sch has it's own unique version of (which really makes me scratch my head as to why they can't make the acn/smn one scale off of int instead of mind but ehhh)

They also stated in a LiveLetter prior to EW that they had strongly considered removing Resurrection from smn but decided to leave it in for now
that's probably the only thing still tethering the jobs together

Personally I think smn should lose it's low level raise and have it replaced with a raise learned at higher level associated with Phoenix for more cohesive identity
could call it Phoenix Pinion for example

---

They should really just sever the two jobs completely now.
Rename SMN's Resurrection as you say to something more Phoenix inspired.
Rename SCH's Ruin II and Energy Drain.
Have SCH be a classless job that unlocks after the level 30 ARC job quest as it does. It wouldn't be too odd, after all Rogue is a class that doesn't unlock until after level 10.
Grandfather in any players who have already level SCH/SMN (although likely losing intra-level exp similar to when they did the stat squish)

I'd love to be a DPS with an axe, but I don't see them doing anything similar to this at any point in time.



However, I'd love if they added a melee DPS class that dual-wields hatchets!

BTW, still here. Just thinking on stuff(mainly in regards to the Bulwark). But I like the idea of a Geomancer trainer from the Far East, and I aso dig Fredco's idea up above of a Berserker that dual-wields stuff like hatchets and cleavers and such.

Okay, I've done a little bit of thinking, and am ready to, one at a time, bring up some of these classes...in a revised manner, to make them stand on their own a bit more, borrowing a little from Far Eastern nature-wielders and the glaive-like weapons(naginata, but the average Eorzean doesn't know that) they sometimes wield. Starting with...


-The Geomancer(GMC)/The Druid(DRU)(casting DPS)
Not all those who lend the power of nature do so for benevolent purposes. These conflicted, tormented souls are usually expelled from the Conjurer's Guild, but few fall for the same reasons. So it was the case with Tambouraine Croixchamp, formerly an up-and-coming, well-meaning conjurer until his station, Camp Tranquil, was viciously attacked by a massive Stroper who cost the lives of all but one of the conjurers who went with him when they were called upon to help subdue it. Tambouraine was never the same after that, becoming withdrawn, sullen and bitterly hateful toward Stropers and anything that vaguely resembles them. He and E-Sumi Yan did part ways, but on amicable terms, and Tambouraine is said to have disappeared into the wilderness to find ways to do unto the Stropers as they did unto him. For some time, everyone assumed he was dead...

...until another massive Stroper came along to attack Camp Tranquil, and Tambouraine was among its defenders, armed with a bladed polearm he called a 'glaive' and his billious, spiteful hatred, as well as posessing a much vaster command over the forces of nature, which he explained he'd gleaned off of a few Far Eastern travelers he encountered during his voyage...specifically in Mor Dhona, where he'd taken to training and exterminating Morbols. While he claims his technique is still unrefined, partly due to him being unable to let go of his hatred toward those gods-damned Stropers, he is at least confident enough to be willing to teach anyone who would wield this power themselves, hopefully to more peaceful ends then he himself has...