I would love the PvP Combos system in PvE to save space

One thing I love about the pvp system in FFXIV is how they setup the combo system where skills move from one to the next.
I think 6.1 shows how that it doesn't just make it press one button to win, but there are so many times in pve that we have 3 to 4 spots taken up, when it could be shifted into just one spot.
In the end, I would support this just being an option for players if they wanted skills not to stack, but figured I'd bring this feedback back up in hopes of it being considered for an update in the future.

Only if by condensing the combos we get more abilities to press in return.
If we only get the combos condensed with nothing in return, no thanks

Could be optional i suppose but usually square is all or nothing with this kind of thing

Hi Brian.
I think it depends.

For example, if button bloat was the problem, removing the button that is only used for Hakaze would have been better than removing Kaiten in my opinion.
For DRG, where you want to make sure that your 3rd GCD is the one that you will buff with life surge, having only one button would actually make it less intuitive to keep track of. (though let's be honest, life surge will not survive 7.0 anyways. Maybe not even 6.2)
They also did it for Continuation and it works well I believe.
Putting holy spirit and confiteor on the same button wouldn't work super well if you want to end your magic rotation early for one reason or another.


However I agree, making it an option would make sense I guess.

However, the reason it works so well in PvP is also because the playstyle is different.
You have the job flavor, you have to be more reactive in the way you press button etc.
It is not as "rigid" as PvE. You don't have rotations, you just have your utility to use properly basically.

To be fair though, when 7.0 comes, and we obviously get a couple more skills for each job, I would rather sacrifice some of the basic combo skills, instead of sacrificing beloved actions (again using Kaiten removal as an example).

How would that work though if your job has multiple combo's though? Have 5 versions of 123 for Monk or Dragoon?

This would have better applications for Tanks than DPS most classes.

Still worth adding as a option honestly.

I would not mind them if they are optional. Forced anything will just yield negative returns. <3 kupo

No, ty.

Jobs have already been gutted enough. And why even have combos if they are the same button, might as well change your 1-2-3 to glare and call it a day. I heard healers are pretty happy with it. /s

I am with OP & 100% support this,

If anything, it’s something I dearly hope they would move with this onward seeing it the game also has console players like myself.

Helps to have more immersion within the game & encourage muscle memory.

Having too many abilities etc., at a hotbar is mind boggling!

PS: Some PC players might flame me on it but I remain with great support to have abilities shortened and/or condensed & PvP did amazing on this!

I will quit the game the day they do that. Its fine for pvp because its so fast, but I would be bored out of my mind with so few buttons to press in raids.

Test it out in next Eureka/Bozja style content, instead of elemental/resistance level and lost action consumables, we get a new level system for that instance. Could start off with a 123 combo and an oGCD, then every level we get more abilities. Make it similar to PVP where each job feels more unique.

Since it would be side content, it wouldn't affect main content, but could also be a test for future updates.

The PVE version of the game doesn't really need it to live today, but... For everyone saying that they should never add that because it dumbs the game down... What exactly is your plan for Dragoons and Paladins when they get to 7.0... 8.0? Should they stop getting new unique actions and everything new is just a visual upgrade from old stuff?

XIV has a vertical power system, and it's either stall the amount of buttons as long as possible or just accept that some jobs will inevitably get a full rework - no matter how perfect they are - because they don't have room for growth anymore.

No I agree that the new pvp actions system is far, far better and easier to work with than the pve system. If the developers went this direction than there would be an increase in complexity in the kind of mechanics we'd have to deal with in-game, since people would spend more time seeing what is happening on the field over figuring out if they are at the right spot in their finger DDR. Pre-existing content would become a cake walk.

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Originally Posted by Lilyth

No, ty.

Jobs have already been gutted enough. And why even have combos if they are the same button, might as well change your 1-2-3 to glare and call it a day. I heard healers are pretty happy with it. /s

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You know those combos have you doing different things right?
You can't compare healers as we spam ONE thing and it's same spell.

They're going to have to do something anyways because Yoshi already said they're at their limit with space.

Honestly, after playing a bunch of PvP over the last few weeks I really DON'T want them to condense combos.

Combos in PVP are just a faceroll button with 0 impact that you spam over and over as a kind of auto-attack. It feels horrible.

Hell no!

Unless we have PVP actions on non PvP things. The PVP kit is meant for small scale stuff while PVE is meant for longer fights. How about maybe getting somthing of a mashup between the two like Survival

Wave 1! Wave 2! Type of stuff while killing more and more mobs with distinct variety and more chaotic aoes and mechanics

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Originally Posted by Jybril

You know those combos have you doing different things right?
You can't compare healers as we spam ONE thing and it's same spell.

They're going to have to do something anyways because Yoshi already said they're at their limit with space.

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No one cares what the button does, we care about how many times we're gonna be pressing 1111111111111111111111111111111111

Anyways, no. Hell no, even. I see people ask for this every now and then and it's always a complete shit idea for horrible reasons. If hitting 123 is oh so difficult for you then literally just play a healer and find out how much you like it then.

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Originally Posted by anhaato

No one cares what the button does, we care about how many times we're gonna be pressing 1111111111111111111111111111111111

Anyways, no. Hell no, even. I see people ask for this every now and then and it's always a complete shit idea for horrible reasons. If hitting 123 is oh so difficult for you then literally just play a healer and find out how much you like it then.

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When people are talking about condensing buttons, it's really more about reducing redundant actions while still keeping the identity of the job. Combos don't need to be reduced to the same button, but small things like having the buttons transform in some cases instead of wasting space, or changing move sets so that each action is unique in it's effect and not simply a more powerful attack.

Like if you break DPS down, it's composed of the action, skills that multiply or boost the potency of the action, and skills that reduce or inhibit the potency of actions used against the character. Combo actions are enforced potency boosts gained through following a set course of actions. Doing a true thrust into a vorpal thrust is the same as if someone hit a vorpal thrust and then pressed a skill that increases the potency of the next vorpal thrust by 50.

What peoples fears are, and they are quite understandable, is the loss of opportunities where you can get a big payoff from putting together a bunch of skills. Combo itself is a boost, and then when you get to the end of a chain and use something like Life Surge, which makes the attack an automatic critical strike, while also having lance charge up, it creates a sense of satisfaction since the resulting attack does immense damage.

Such a thing is still possible with fewer buttons than what are currently being used on the jobs, though I'd hesitate to reduce the controls down to PVP levels. Reaper actually does a LOT of consolidation and it shows in how it is designed.

I like how Yoshi P removed Kaiten with the reasoning of button bloat. Now everyone and there mother are screaming to remove more buttons, while most of these people don't understand what the buttons are even for, or which can just be ignored. Hail Yoshi P Master of the Universe, will you explain why you removed kaiten and the job direction already cause this games a mess bud.

the games already heading down a condensing ability road and even jobs such as SAM and DRG with multiple "strings" of comboes can be lowered down to 1 button each string we already have plugins that can do such a thing

i for one would much rather take the downtime being down to 1 button if it meant we had more to do during downtime which is what should happen with a change like this the main issue is almost everything we have thats not just basic combo/ a "finisher" for the combo think midare is that they're on like 20+ second CDs there' nothing really there to keep you interested during the time you're hitting 123 it's my biggest complaint with DRK rn and healers

i'd much rather have DRK combo go to one button if it means we get an actual resource spending/genning engine running use MP blood guage and buff timer constantly giving me something to do during downtime than have to hit 1-2-3 it's not difficult it's fecking boring and thats undeniable. now as for MNKs SAMS DRGS sure you could keep them seperate but i'm not gonna let the few who won't benefit from a combo condensement stop the other jobs who literally lose nothing from getting it it's not that hard to keep jobs seperate. y'all can keep your seperated comboes (MNKS SAMS DRGS) and we can keep our condensed comboes and benefit from having more button space to play around with

the issue is however is that they'd condense the comboes then release literally useless abilities/traits and then get rid of them later on saying yes they were useless acting like htey actually listened just couldn't deal with it due to "constraints" (still waiting on that enhanced unmend deletion SE >.>)

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

I like how Yoshi P removed Kaiten with the reasoning of button bloat. Now everyone and there mother are screaming to remove more buttons, while most of these people don't understand what the buttons are even for, or which can just be ignored. Hail Yoshi P Master of the Universe, will you explain why you removed kaiten and the job direction already cause this games a mess bud.

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It didn't even remove the "action bloat" because now we're weaving gyoten in the rotation so nothings changed.

There is a plugin in the XIVlauncher for this, called XIV Combo Plugin. You choose yourself which combos you want out of those available.

I'd rather have combo actions freed up as not to, per their present state, have all but one or two combo actions in a given GCD be outright traps.

But, I'd also be fine with getting combo consolidation as an OPTION. One can then simply trade useful tactile cues for easier button-reach on the whole.

Keeping it an OPTION would entail, however, not giving new actions to fill the buttons optionally saved.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

How would that work though if your job has multiple combo's though? Have 5 versions of 123 for Monk or Dragoon?

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Dragoon has 2 combinations and you literally just repeat them back to back.

True Thrust -> Disembowel -> Chaotic Spring -> Wheeling Thrust -> Fang and Claw
Raiden Thrust -> Vorpal Thrust -> Heaven's Thrust -> Fand and Claw - > Wheeling Thrust

Why those two combos are not just on a single button each, when there is NO REASON to press any other button than those exact combinations.

If you do, you break the combo and you are losing damage.

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Same can be said for the recent change of High Jump into Mirage Dive. It saved space, and is EXACTLY what the OP is asking for, just for more abilities.

Suggestions for these actions:

Warrior:
Inner Release turn into Primal Rend

RDM:
Veraero II and Verthunder II turning into Impact
melee combo on 1 button?

Bard:
Burst Shot turning into Straight Shot when it procs?
Ladon's Bite turning into Shadowbite

Summoner:
Energy Drain turning into Fester


There are so many buttons that could be consolidated for quality of life purposes that free up hotbar space.

if it were an optional menu option, i wouldnt mind being able to condense some buttons down on controller, but it's important that it be an optional thing, since MKB users arent really at a shortage of buttons and dont need to have it forced upon them

also it'd make room for actual flavorful/unique options for each class again, rather than every class having largely the same ShB cookie-cutter kit with a spammable single-skill meter or another tertiary resource

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Originally Posted by Delmontyb

One thing I love about the pvp system in FFXIV is how they setup the combo system where skills move from one to the next.
I think 6.1 shows how that it doesn't just make it press one button to win, but there are so many times in pve that we have 3 to 4 spots taken up, when it could be shifted into just one spot.
In the end, I would support this just being an option for players if they wanted skills not to stack, but figured I'd bring this feedback back up in hopes of it being considered for an update in the future.

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it took you until PVP?
Were you not paying attention when the system was used for playing others characters? xD

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Originally Posted by Lilyth

No, ty.

Jobs have already been gutted enough. And why even have combos if they are the same button, might as well change your 1-2-3 to glare and call it a day. I heard healers are pretty happy with it. /s

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Unfortunately, people don't like button stacking.
So SE will help them by removing more skills. Like how they removed kaiten lmao

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Originally Posted by Jybril

You know those combos have you doing different things right?
You can't compare healers as we spam ONE thing and it's same spell.

They're going to have to do something anyways because Yoshi already said they're at their limit with space.

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The sad thing is. If SAM did this, Kaiten coulda been saved xD

If they condense combos to 1 button, may as well as remove the combo system and switch track to a priority system. Spamming 1 button that changes pictures isn't really all that fun to do, I'd much rather have something else.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

It didn't even remove the "action bloat" because now we're weaving gyoten in the rotation so nothings changed.

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why gyoten?

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Originally Posted by hagare

why gyoten?

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It has the same potency-per-kenki as Shinten, which allows you to spend more kenki under raid-buffs where you couldn't afford a shinten.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

It has the same potency-per-kenki as Shinten, which allows you to spend more kenki under raid-buffs where you couldn't afford a shinten.

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OH. You mean when it's the hot 2 mins window but you don't have enough kenki for shinten.
Got it.

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Originally Posted by SpiralMask

since MKB users arent really at a shortage of buttons

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This is where the question comes in, Accessibility and Hardware Accessibility.

I have nerve damage on my left hand and can only really reach upto the #5 on my keyboard without straining my hand.
Currently i have 1-5, Alt+1-5, Ctrl+1-5 and F1-F4 as usable keys, and i have been using this key setup for a few years in other MMO's.
That's 19 keybinds total(21 if you count my two side mouse buttons), which does not even allow me to bind every ability and role action on some jobs like Samurai.

Hardware Accessibility is another story all together, are you expected to go out and buy a $150 mouse with 12 additional buttons just to be able to play the game?
My straight up answer is no, you should not have to depends on more than 2 additional mouse buttons (The standard for all current mice on the market).

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

It has the same potency-per-kenki as Shinten, which allows you to spend more kenki under raid-buffs where you couldn't afford a shinten.

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this is why i love the forums, i would have never known this unless somebody else asked :)