The change to SAM was unacceptable this 6.1 patch and “requires” to be reverted.
As of this moment I did quit SAM and threw all my BiS gear and switched to NIN for the upcoming Ultimate. And you gave me barely any time to switch my job.
So what makes this change unacceptable? It literally took away SAM's identity of having those big burst during their iaijutsu which had that winding up animation with the Hissatsu Kaiten being cast before iaijutsu.
My biggest question with this change was... in which direction is ff14 heading? Because from what I saw since the start of 6.0 Endwalker all job changes are directed towards being simplified to the point where the job is butchered. First off the Summoner which became a meme for a short time being a one button rotation. Now it is samurai losing one of its core Ogcd which prevented the gauge from being a shinten gauge. And I have heard rumours of Dragoon being next on the execution stand.
→DONT CHANGE A JOB THATS DOING PERFECTLY WELL.←変えるな！
●So what problem did the 6.1 SAM cause?
1: The kenki gauge is just a shinten gauge now which needs 0 optimization for gauge usage during certain buffs to put in as many shinten but having enough gauge for kaiten.
2: This is for Tekka Goken which was changed from a cone to a circle. This put us Samurai mains in a hard place because Tekka Goken being a cone allowed for certain optimizations such as in TEA during jagd dolls delaying the burst to have nearly 100% uptime on Living Liquid.
3: SAM completely lost it's synergy with many jobs the biggest one being DRG which is most likely the most optimal for DSR looking at past ultimates (reason I changed to NIN even though I am not as comfortable)
4: The change of SAM being completely kicked from certain statics and pf. (*barse*)
●So what positive effect did it have?
-None except for the “non-samurai casuals” agreeing with the simplification of the job from their ignorance.
●What could of been done?
As stated in many youtube videos combining certain buttons such as
-Shoha and Shoha II with a potency change and keeping it as an aoe.
-The combination of Ikkishouten and Ogi-namikiri
-The combination of Guren and Senei
I know the developers wanted to change the APM (action per minute) BUT... the removal of kaiten barely changed the APM so this change was a detriment. Causing the enrage of the Samurai player base as well as not succeeding in the reduction of APM (→WHICH IS NOT NEEDED←)
If you can't keep up with the APM and not use Hissatsu Kaiten properly and complaining about the job being too hard PLAY ANOTHER JOB as easy as that stop screwing over jobs for your own inability to learn a job.
Thank you.
Message to dev Team:
高難易度コンテントの前にジョブをこんなに変えるな！こっちは短時間で忍者の装備を集め絶シリーズの準備をしないといけないんです。
今後どの方向にFF１４は向かっていますか？召喚士のあとは侍あとどのジョブを殺すのですか？次は竜騎士と噂を耳にしていらっしゃるのですが。簡単だからいいて言うわけではないのです。なんのために色んなジョブがあると思っていらっしゃるのですか？
APMを下げたいためにこの変更をしたが：APMはほとんど変わらず、その上お客様を怒らせ, なにをしたいんですか？
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04-21-2022, 10:20 AMYuuYun6.1 Samurai changes which needs to be reverted BY 6.2 Endwalker
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04-21-2022, 12:35 PMSiriusBreeze
The APM being unchanged is the most embarrassing result of all this.
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04-21-2022, 05:15 PMRuminous
They need to be reverted by the time Dragonsong ultimate comes out. That's next week, by the way.
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04-21-2022, 08:09 PME-ZekielA man can (and does) dream. Here's hoping...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruminous
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04-21-2022, 09:59 PMRansu
I don't really expect them to change it back to be honest. I hope they do, but I'm just accepting that sam is now ruined and I have been slowly playing drg more and more.
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04-22-2022, 10:30 AMRuminous
Ah, drg. I tried that, the build up is just as fun as building up to projectile vomit and then releasing. My god I hate that class. Definitely could switch the potencies around a bit on the end stuff so it feels good to reach the end of your strings...
Still, it has the problem of "button bloat" that SE claims is a problem with samurai. Surprised they went after samurai first and not dragoon, when the latter has waaaay more actions than the former. Just strange to me. -
04-22-2022, 11:14 AMRansu
DRG is fine and doesn't have a button bloat problem. I agree that stardiver needs to have more potency though.
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04-22-2022, 12:28 PMFable_FrostI just left my ultimate static. I spent 2 months getting BiS to do ultimate on SAM and was super excited for it, being my first blind Ultimate fight. Now I just despise playing SAM and I refuse to take that attitude into a static, especially on a job that wont even synergize with the rest of my team. I am not going back into savage to re-gear a new job and try to master it before Ultimate in a couple of weeks either.Quote:
Originally Posted by YuuYun
I won't be touching this job any more until it's reverted, if ever. -
04-22-2022, 01:30 PMRuminous
Drg has a LOT of buttons, a few of them aren't necessary but have been there because they're legacy parts of the kit that for some reason endure. Fang and claw in particular is an action that definitely doesn't need to be there. Dragonfire dive just...Exists, because, legacy jump. Nastrond is boring to build up to, and is boring on use. Instead of some new or enhanced jumps, you just get...Red projectile vomit. Fun, compelling. It's a problem I've had with life of the dragon ever since it was introduced as a mechanic back in Stormblood. Since I find the job and its direction not very compelling, I don't play it.
That being said, I'd rather they not nuke the job like they did with samurai because that isn't going to help anyone in the long run. If reworking the role is in the works, then let's get ideas out there, proper playtesting to see if it fits the aesthetic and has something more to it. We need less samurai style changes, because that's going to just infuriate the playerbase more. But as the saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." -
04-22-2022, 04:03 PMEdweenaTheres a better solution to merging Guren and Senei, I too thought it was a good idea but further discussion has prompted ideas like...Quote:
Originally Posted by YuuYun
https://i.imgur.com/wFsE734.jpeg
This should be the normalized idea instead of merging the abilities as it's quite literally the warrior's Fell Cleave into Inner Chaos under Nascent Chaos.
Saves 2 buttons instead of 1, and reduces drifting which lowers the skill floor, but maintains the skill ceiling since those at the ceiling were unlikely to even let CD's drift in the first place.
Merging Guren and Senei would be nice, but this would be sooooo much better, + we'd have room for new 2m CD's in 7.0! -
04-22-2022, 05:10 PMxAFROx100% agreed and seconded on that notion. I'm really glad I haven't been the only one thinking of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edweena
Take notes, Square -
04-22-2022, 05:17 PMcjbeagleThis is a much more elegant solution than just mashing the two into a single AOE that hits one target hard - hopefully it gets some more attention - haven't seen this idea kicked around in any of these threads until now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edweena
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04-22-2022, 06:56 PMAvenheit
holy crap, iki and ogi being the same button makes so much sense
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04-22-2022, 08:21 PMelioaiko
So I stopped playing SAM after SB (the best) and lightly touched on it during ShB. And for EW I'm coming back to DPS because I desperately need a break from healing.
While I've been getting cozy with SMN, I have been playing SAM a bit just because I haven't really since ShB.
I don't share the same sentiment that SB SAM was the best there was a lot more thought put into it. Hagakure was something that set apart bad players from the good ones because messing up was punishing. Your Midares came every other loop which was why I liked it. There's balance of flashy and elegance. And aesthetically I want my character to swing his katana constantly, not building up and spending constantly so that when you do get to use Midares, it's 100% satisfying.
I didn't really think too much of ShB SAM purely because it was clear that it was the first expansion that they will simplify everything. And Ofc course we lost Hagakure and then only got it back as a means of Sen reseting. The job was functional but it showed that the devs wanted style over substance.
EW is where I realized that SAM is just another flashy job where they think getting to Midare so much is satisfying or fun. It's not and it doesn't feel good to use anymore because you get it so much. Removing Kaiten was just another step in simplifying jobs. And thy doesn't stop their issues.
Shoha can honestly be deleted as it does nothing. Ogi and Ikishoten not being the same button is so weird. -
04-22-2022, 08:40 PMCelestiCerPersonally I would want Senei mashed with Guren. So not just the buttons, the Skills merged and literally fused.Quote:
Originally Posted by cjbeagle
- Senei retains original slash animation
- Senei inherits Guren's line projectile animation
- Senei original potency is kept on the first target hit
- Guren's Line AoE potency is kept after first target hit with fall off damage to targets hit after
- Cast animation time is not increased, kept the same as Senei duration.
The benefits would be the non-existing button bloat solution of 1 less, however... this keeps Guren playstyle for AoE-ing mobpacks, but also now Senei for single target? has become ranged, yet you could use it at Melee Range if you feel like it just like how we originally did it. Essentially this is a buff, even though its something that's not required we're getting the value of 2 skills for 1, either it's AoE impact with the first target hit getting hit for more and Senei now needlessly being ranged allowing us to cast it when say a boss casts a large AOE around itself. Not a big deal, not essential to have, but if it helps us get back Kaiten...
Animation wise, imagine these 2 slashing animations put together, including your characters animation slashing your sword back to back from Senei to Guren. And very important the cast animation is no longer then the original Senei/Guren
https://i.postimg.cc/Bn4j4zJS/Senei.png
https://i.postimg.cc/BnSnd1Ct/Guren.png
Edit: Honestly whichever solution for whatever less button bloat square things this will solve for the present and future. Not going to be disappointed if it doesn't happen, but whatever reasonable logical compromising changes it takes to get back Kaiten... just for the love of Master Musosai himself, give us back Kaiten -
04-22-2022, 11:30 PMRansuMakes sense considering we really only use senei after popping ikishoten in the rotation anyways since their CD's line up to be the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edweena
So...you WANT mindless shinten spam? Because that is all SB SAM was and its why they changed it in ShB. I disliked SB SAM for the same reason I dislike 6.1 SAM.Quote:
Originally Posted by elioaiko
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04-23-2022, 03:30 AMcjbeagleThis is the idea I've seen suggested in multiple threads, and which I myself have offered, and I think it's fine, but I think Edweena's is even better.Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestiCer
The mash-them-together solution makes that Senei/Guren cooldown use the same button regardless of ST or AOE and frees up 1 button to fight bloat.
Edweena's solution turns Shinten and Kyoten into Senei and Guren when Ikishoten is used, keeping ST different than AOE, and freeing up 2 buttons to fight bloat.
I imagine both would feel fine in-game, but Edweena's solution frees up an extra button. -
04-23-2022, 03:36 AMelioaikoTbf I don't mind Shinten because I like that there's something to do while setting up your next combo. Renoving Shinten is honestly just as bad as removing Kaiten IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransu
My point with comparing SB and EW is that in SB there was a sense of decision making and it wasn't always about hitting as much Midares as much as humanly possible. Because Midare doesn't feel special anymore because you're using it so often.
SB SAM wasn't perfect but it suffers from the dev obsessing accessiblity and this is why SAM is the way it is now.
Let's look RDM, the other SB job SAM got released with. RDM also was stuck in this transition of accessibility, and while RDM still has some issues–it's the prime example of adding QoL to a job without changing that original feeling. RDM feels good to play whereas SAM feels messy. -
04-23-2022, 04:21 AMcjbeagleRemoving Kaiten broke the link between kenki and sen - the link between kenki and sen would be fine without Shinten.Quote:
Originally Posted by elioaiko
Removing Kaiten broke the link between kenki and your rotation - the link between kenki and your rotation would be fine without Shinten.
Removing Kaiten made Iaijutsu weak, which made the entire build-up to Iaijutsu feel pointless - Iaijutsu and the entire build-up to Iaijutsu would be fine without Shinten.
Shinten was just a resource dump to fill in the gaps between Kaiten uses - without Kaiten the entire resource is just a dump.
Without Shinten we'd just get to Kaiten more liberally, but kenki would still require management and be part of your rotation - without Kaiten, kenki can be spent mindlessly - no management required, no timing required. -
04-23-2022, 05:19 AMRansuI never said anything about removing shinten. I just don't want to spam an ability that was designed to be a kenki dump skill and not something you used all the damn time.Quote:
Originally Posted by elioaiko
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04-23-2022, 05:26 AMCelestiCerThe reasoning behind " Guren+Senei " merging making sense to me was... it would be one cool animation haha! but also cause " Ikishoten " turning into" Ogi-Namikiri " has been suggested often saving 2 buttons it going hand in hand. There's also rarely a situation where we have to actually pick between Guren and Senei.Quote:
Originally Posted by cjbeagle
The " Shinten/Kyouten " changing into " Senei/Guren " upon " Ikishoten " activation suggestion was conflicting in my head because of Ogi Namikiri also being activated upon Ikishoten. Square said " Action/Button bloat " issue, that means by doing this solution we technically remove 0 actions though 2 buttons, we get to keep all our skills intact behind a trigger/combo.
So to be clear, I don't disagree. I just...have this pessimistic side that doesn't trust Square to not mess this up due to Kaiten removal... Kaiten removal has just destroyed my trust... it makes me literally debate with myself in my head " what is the most easy/straightforward/prechewed solutions and suggestions we can throw at them, that it is actually monkeyproof to not mess it up ". And that sounds quite overexaggerating yes, but then again... they did remove Kaiten...
TLDR: Whatever is a reasonable compromise that will somehow please their fictional thoughts that any of our jobs have Button/Action bloat issues, and brings back Kaiten in the most easy realistic manners <- whatever " this is " keep these suggestions coming.
And if they don't implement any of it and we get something worse? at the very least " we said so " we have at least shared endless amounts of solutions. -
04-23-2022, 05:59 AMcjbeagleSome of the 6.0 changes, especially to monk, made me question their job designers, but 6.1 samurai removed all question - now it's absolute pessimism, so I know what you mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestiCer
Debatable changes are one thing, but 6.1 SAM was an unmitigated butchery of what used to be a fantastic kit design.