Mug Attack

The existence of a 60 second raid buff lead to more fun gameplay for people playing with a Ninja.
Please consider swapping Trick and Mug attack so that Mug is the personal debuff and Trick is raid-wide. Nerf the numbers if you have to, but please stop making everything a 2 min cooldown.

While we're on the topic - it'd be great to have an actual replacement to Shadow Fang so that Dream Within A Dream no longer drifts. Furthermore, Assassinate is in the game, there's no reason for it to be unavailable past a certain level. The animation of it was really cool - please make it so that pressing Dream Within A Dream turns it into Assassinate.

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

The existence of a 60 second raid buff lead to more fun gameplay for people playing with a Ninja.
Please consider swapping Trick and Mug attack so that Mug is the personal debuff and Trick is raid-wide. Nerf the numbers if you have to, but please stop making everything a 2 min cooldown.

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I just wish Mug had a cooler animation. A quick jab is boring. Bring back the old Sneak Attack for it and make Sneak Attack the personal booster. Or just merge the two into an Embolden type deal onto Sneak.

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Originally Posted by RArchet

I just wish Mug had a cooler animation. A quick jab is boring. Bring back the old Sneak Attack for it and make Sneak Attack the personal booster. Or just merge the two into an Embolden type deal onto Sneak.

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I can get behind wanting better animations but I think the gameplay perspective behind Mug/Trick is far more important, as a lot of people really enjoyed playing around a 60 second raid-wide.

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

The existence of a 60 second raid buff lead to more fun gameplay for people playing with a Ninja.
Please consider swapping Trick and Mug attack so that Mug is the personal debuff and Trick is raid-wide. Nerf the numbers if you have to, but please stop making everything a 2 min cooldown.

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What does it matter to NIN, if the raid buff is active every minute or two? Their rotation is unchanged either way. I genuinely don't understand this.
Why do you care if others deal more damage now or the next minute? You apply TA every minute anyway. What's the point?

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Originally Posted by EhvaTaco

What does it matter to NIN, if the raid buff is active every minute or two? Their rotation is unchanged either way. I genuinely don't understand this.
Why do you care if others deal more damage now or the next minute? You apply TA every minute anyway. What's the point?

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The point is that I don't exclusively play Ninja. The existence of that 60 second raid buff made gameplay more fun for others. It gave an incentive to save resources and play smarter.

As a mch, with 1 minute queen windows, trick was nice, its a consistent buff thats always on when you need it. It was fun to play around.

The assassination loss made me really sad and pretty much ensured I would never return to the class. Literally one of the first early amazing awesome things I saw in the game was someone showing me what assassination looked like and me being amazed and thinking it was so cool and being excited to eventually use it myself.

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Originally Posted by E-Zekiel

The assassination loss made me really sad and pretty much ensured I would never return to the class. Literally one of the first early amazing awesome things I saw in the game was someone showing me what assassination looked like and me being amazed and thinking it was so cool and being excited to eventually use it myself.

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I just don't understand the reasoning behind it. It's still in the game, why does it get replaced after reaching a certain level? You can't hide behind button bloat excuse because Dream Within A Dream and Assassinate can just share the same button.

Because they want to simplify every job into a single 2 minute buff window, rather than letting players experiment and giving certain jobs more synergy than others. Ninja was awesome to have in a party, it allowed jobs to shine that have trashy 2 minute skills whilst also rewarding the jobs that do have good 2 minute skills. It paired well with Mch and Smn. Since they have solid 1 minute windows. It was a nice thing that partys could play around and be rewarded for but instead, we have to have 2 minute boring burst windows because god forbid players have creativity and be rewarded for planning in end game content.

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Originally Posted by ShimAoki

Because they want to simplify every job into a single 2 minute buff window, rather than letting players experiment and giving certain jobs more synergy than others.

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that explains the Mug changes but not Assassinate or the forced Dream Within A Dream drift. I suppose the latter was just an unintended consequence of Shadow Fang's removal that they don't care enough to take a look at but oh well.

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

that explains the Mug changes but not Assassinate or the forced Dream Within A Dream drift. I suppose the latter was just an unintended consequence of Shadow Fang's removal that they don't care enough to take a look at but oh well.

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Honestly, no personal idea, I don't play the job but my friend did, all I know is that he's switched to RPR now.

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

that explains the Mug changes but not Assassinate or the forced Dream Within A Dream drift. I suppose the latter was just an unintended consequence of Shadow Fang's removal that they don't care enough to take a look at but oh well.

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The Assassinate/DwaD change I can only imagine was made to reduce the number of oGCDs Ninja has to cram inside of Trick to accomodate for the increased Ninki generation. With the original, 6.0 state of Ninja, if I recall correctly, you'd end up with 90-100~ Ninki just before entering Trick. Given that Ninja only has 7-8 oGCD weaving slots for a standard two-minute Trick window, and that you would end up with a guaranteed 3 and sometimes 4 Bhavakacras inside Trick, I can understand why this change was made. 4 Bhavas + TCJ + Meisui + DwaD means you potentially hit your cap, and would have to start pushing oGCDs outside of Trick, which isn't a great feeling. With the current/6.08 state of Nin, this isn't a problem, as you overcap Ninki before entering Trick, and thus only get two Bhavas per Trick Window - occasionally three in the two-minutes.

Why they picked DwaD over Assassinate, I can only imagine is because of Assassinate's animation lock. Though, with that now being reduced, that no longer feels like a great solution.

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Originally Posted by aloneatsea

The Assassinate/DwaD change I can only imagine was made to reduce the number of oGCDs Ninja has to cram inside of Trick to accomodate for the increased Ninki generation. With the original, 6.0 state of Ninja, if I recall correctly, you'd end up with 90-100~ Ninki just before entering Trick. Given that Ninja only has 7-8 oGCD weaving slots for a standard two-minute Trick window, and that you would end up with a guaranteed 3 and sometimes 4 Bhavakacras inside Trick, I can understand why this change was made. 4 Bhavas + TCJ + Meisui + DwaD means you potentially hit your cap, and would have to start pushing oGCDs outside of Trick, which isn't a great feeling. With the current/6.08 state of Nin, this isn't a problem, as you overcap Ninki before entering Trick, and thus only get two Bhavas per Trick Window - occasionally three in the two-minutes.

Why they picked DwaD over Assassinate, I can only imagine is because of Assassinate's animation lock. Though, with that now being reduced, that no longer feels like a great solution.

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I don't think it would've been a huge issue pushing a bhava out of trick, especially considering 6.0 iteration had us not being able to fit our GCDs either. Can't really say I'm a fan of the crusade against animation locks either tbh

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

I don't think it would've been a huge issue pushing a bhava out of trick, especially considering 6.0 iteration had us not being able to fit our GCDs either. Can't really say I'm a fan of the crusade against animation locks either tbh

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Perhaps not, but back then Raijus were weaker than they are now. Pushing a Raiju out of Trick would have been a much smaller loss than it would be today. If they're really looking to reduce button bloat, changing Meisui into an ability that deals damage as opposed to a Ninki gainer makes the most sense to me.

I've never personally been a fan of animation lock (why I can't stand Dragoon), but I'm curious -- how do you feel about Ten Chi Jin?

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Originally Posted by aloneatsea

I've never personally been a fan of animation lock (why I can't stand Dragoon), but I'm curious -- how do you feel about Ten Chi Jin?

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I really like the planning associated with animation locks. It sometimes will force you to break away from your static rotation to readjust things to fit mechanics. Having big hitting abilities animation locked emphasizes the power behind them in my opinion. I think Ten Chi Jin should stay as it is.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...16/unknown.png

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Originally Posted by butchersblock

I really like the planning associated with animation locks. It sometimes will force you to break away from your static rotation to readjust things to fit mechanics. Having big hitting abilities animation locked emphasizes the power behind them in my opinion. I think Ten Chi Jin should stay as it is.

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I'm definitely with you on TCJ -- I enjoy being able to plan around having to stay still for a bit to get off a major cooldown. However, TCJ is inherently more forgiving in that it can be cancelled -- if something goes wrong, whether it be your own misstep or a teammate kindly gifting you an AOE, you're able to move out of the way at the cost of losing whichever of your casts you failed to get off. Animation locks, however, are not so generous. Once you commit, you've committed. They are uniquely punishing amongst the various quirks in this game engine, and I cannot say I am particularly fond of them, personally.

That said, I've seen quite a few Dragoon players express disappointment that the animation lock is being lessened, so perhaps I just don't get it. That was what drove me away from the job in the first place.

Drifting DWAD, annoying, but partly solved during non TCJ windows by : using a weaponskills cause kassatsu's a buff that's still being held for TA.

Forced drift in next TCJ window, from this point on, do not use weaponskills here because it'll force a raiton/raiju out, this drift will be static till whatever issue you had that forced you to drift it again. If this happens, it'll be uncomfortable, but it will still be in 120 window as long as you also don't forget to spend the ogcd slots for bhava/tcj.

Assassinate, I do not want this again, I did not like the animation lock and that's about it. Including no hold pinax, I've seen mnks do insane shit with their aetherial manipulation.

Mug being the 120 buff instead of TA, is a bit of an annoying muscle memory fight but a meh issue, dump ninki before the 120 window. I'd prefer it being the other way around but it's here and it's w/e, mostly the same besides ninki dumping.

TCJ, not an issue as usual, I can still use it and land it under burst windows during mechanics. Obviously some planning needed but not that much to avoid dying.

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Originally Posted by Inanegrain

Drifting DWAD, annoying, but partly solved during non TCJ windows by : using a weaponskills cause kassatsu's a buff that's still being held for TA.

Forced drift in next TCJ window, from this point on, do not use weaponskills here because it'll force a raiton/raiju out, this drift will be static till whatever issue you had that forced you to drift it again. If this happens, it'll be uncomfortable, but it will still be in 120 window as long as you also don't forget to spend the ogcd slots for bhava/tcj.

Assassinate, I do not want this again, I did not like the animation lock and that's about it. Including no hold pinax, I've seen mnks do insane shit with their aetherial manipulation.

Mug being the 120 buff instead of TA, is a bit of an annoying muscle memory fight but a meh issue, dump ninki before the 120 window. I'd prefer it being the other way around but it's here and it's w/e, mostly the same besides ninki dumping.

TCJ, not an issue as usual, I can still use it and land it under burst windows during mechanics. Obviously some planning needed but not that much to avoid dying.

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DWAD drift is a small inconvenience but an annoying one regardless. It's an extremely easy fix so I don't see why they shouldn't address it.
As for the Mug/Trick thing - it's more for other jobs than NIN. It gave everyone else a 1 minute window to play around with which was fun.
TCJ is great and it should stay that way, and I really don't think Assassinate is long enough of an animation lock to make people very threatened by it.