Why are current Alliance Raids not available for Minimum Item Level runs?

I know it's a very niche feature and doesn't get much use by many people.

But I wanted a nicer "more accurate" experience when it came to the content. By the second day on my first run, we have higher item level DPS making us skip some mechanics already.

If someone is able to amass 23 other people via Party Finder, shouldn't they be able to use this feature?

https://i.imgur.com/sf7rX7d.png

This was also an issue back in Shadowbringers right before Endwalker released when I organized a whole minimum item level tour of all the previous raids from ARR, Heavensward, and Stormblood.

But when we tried to gather for a Copied Factory run, that option wasn't available at all.

https://i.imgur.com/HSfsdCY.png

I don't know, can you guys find any intended design with this?

Even the Unreal Trials and current Savage Raids have this option available.

It's a shame, my FC put a run together of the current 24 man intending to do it on minimum, only to find out it wasn't possible. I'd love to see the feature made available.

As much as I adore the new 24 Man, it's become pretty clear to me in subsequent runs that it's undertuned from a DPS standpoint. By the end of the expansion, it's definitely going to end up like Void Ark or Crystal Tower.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

It's a shame, my FC put a run together of the current 24 man intending to do it on minimum, only to find out it wasn't possible. I'd love to see the feature made available.

As much as I adore the new 24 Man, it's become pretty clear to me in subsequent runs that it's undertuned from a DPS standpoint. By the end of the expansion, it's definitely going to end up like Void Ark or Crystal Tower.

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I wonder if that's the plan, maybe trying to future proof it a little so it doesn't end up with a bunch of people dropping out whenever it appears in Alliance roulette when we're over in 7.0.

whats the point with min ilvl alliance raid ?

within or without, its a casual content where its impossible to wipe

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

whats the point with min ilvl alliance raid ?

within or without, its a casual content where its impossible to wipe

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It's mostly for people doing it for the first time.

Regardless of how skilled you are in this game, running a 24 man for the first time tends to be a lot of fun, and that fun is diminished significantly when the bosses die before doing half of their mechanics. It helps to mitigate against the famous issues that many of the end-expansion trials like Thordan have, in which they die so fast that the climactic feeling is totally diminished for a newer player.

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

whats the point with min ilvl alliance raid ?

within or without, its a casual content where its impossible to wipe

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You clearly didn't play on patch day. PLENTY of wipes occurred, a lot of it on video.

Min ilvl will change nothing about crystal tower. Its missing mechanics are disable, so lowering dps does nothing.

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

whats the point with min ilvl alliance raid ?

within or without, its a casual content where its impossible to wipe

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I'm not sure if you're aware but there *IS* a section of this community that is dedicated to minimum item level things to enjoy the content for what it is. Regardless of the amount of skill involved.
We even had a few triple legends show up simply because they loved doing content and it had nothing to do with player skill.

We had wipes as well because those said triple legends didn't know anything about how the mechanics were supposed to work.

It's doing the content at the difficulty it was designed for. Even if the game expansion balance changes make it so you can never get the Day 1 experience ever again.
There are at least a good chunk of people that have joined since then that want as close to that experience as possible.

Otherwise I wouldn't have been able to pull off getting a group for these things if it's as pointless as you say.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Min ilvl will change nothing about crystal tower. Its missing mechanics are disable, so lowering dps does nothing.

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I don't know about you but a lot of people had a lot of fun in my Shadowbringers runs of the old raids.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...b1WcWKPl3ZyWse

Labyrinth with the Behemoth was harder because we had 3 less tanks to take towers.
Not to mention we actually saw the petrification mechanic in Syrcus Tower.

I've seen an alliance put together for this only to discover it wasn't possible in Shadowbringers.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Min ilvl will change nothing about crystal tower. Its missing mechanics are disable, so lowering dps does nothing.

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That's not true at all. I was in a server that did them minimum item level and we were in discord. We wiped multiple times and had to learn the mechanics, discuss strategies and do callouts whereas you don't need to know them at all normally. In fights we didn't wipe on, we almost did with healers down. That was before the stat squish but I don't think it affected ARR that much.

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

whats the point with min ilvl alliance raid ?

within or without, its a casual content where its impossible to wipe

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Wipes used to happen all of the time in Weeping City and we definitely wiped in the new one when I did it on patch day.

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Originally Posted by shadowofchao725

I'm not sure if you're aware but there *IS* a section of this community that is dedicated to minimum item level things to enjoy the content for what it is. Regardless of the amount of skill involved.
We even had a few triple legends show up simply because they loved doing content and it had nothing to do with player skill.

We had wipes as well because those said triple legends didn't know anything about how the mechanics were supposed to work.

It's doing the content at the difficulty it was designed for. Even if the game expansion balance changes make it so you can never get the Day 1 experience ever again.
There are at least a good chunk of people that have joined since then that want as close to that experience as possible.

Otherwise I wouldn't have been able to pull off getting a group for these things if it's as pointless as you say.



I don't know about you but a lot of people had a lot of fun in my Shadowbringers runs of the old raids.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...b1WcWKPl3ZyWse

Labyrinth with the Behemoth was harder because we had 3 less tanks to take towers.
Not to mention we actually saw the petrification mechanic in Syrcus Tower.

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Very strange I read and heard that certian mechanics had been disabled. But your video shows them all present raises the question did they really nerf it. I did the fights in arr post nerf varuois mechanics like the petrification were not present.

thats a shame
atleast job gear is free so possibly on min ilevel is still there.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Very strange I read and heard that certian mechanics had been disabled. But your video shows them all present raises the question did they really nerf it. I did the fights in arr post nerf varuois mechanics like the petrification were not present.

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It's rare that they actually nerf anything because our gear just gets better and skips everything, but there are a few examples such as The Orbonne Monastery.

It's possible it will get nerfed eventually when trusts are adapted to trials but that should be after 7.0.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It's rare that they actually nerf anything because our gear just gets better and skips everything, but there are a few examples such as The Orbonne Monastery.

It's possible it will get nerfed eventually when trusts are adapted to trials but that should be after 7.0.

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Oh I understand, but makes me wonder why do they let us skip some mechanics and hardcore others to trigger unless you instant kill the boss.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Very strange I read and heard that certian mechanics had been disabled. But your video shows them all present raises the question did they really nerf it. I did the fights in arr post nerf varuois mechanics like the petrification were not present.

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Also, my apologies.

I reread my response and it could have been taken as aggressive. Sorry about that.
My main gripe with this is that every other piece of content, other than Ultimates have this feature enabled.

So all of them can be taken on at their intended difficulty. Except current alliance raids.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

thats a shame
atleast job gear is free so possibly on min ilevel is still there.

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It's hard enough to get people to join a PF even with some prior discord organization.
Getting people to re-pick up their job gear is going to be a nightmare.

Effectively it's going to be just like Copied Factory where you will never even see Marx's meteor puddle mechanics after the laser with the item level at the end of Shadowbringers.

I don't usually prowl the forums but I figured this is the best chance of getting seen by a dev for an answer to this anomaly.
I once filed a bug report but they didn't consider it a bug.

I can also post in the Japanese forum section but I'm pretty daunted at my skill in Japanese.

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Originally Posted by shadowofchao725

Also, my apologies.

I reread my response and it could have been taken as aggressive. Sorry about that.
My main gripe with this is that every other piece of content, other than Ultimates have this feature enabled.

So all of them can be taken on at their intended difficulty. Except current alliance raids.



It's hard enough to get people to join a PF even with some prior discord organization.
Getting people to re-pick up their job gear is going to be a nightmare.

Effectively it's going to be just like Copied Factory where you will never even see Marx's meteor puddle mechanics after the laser with the item level at the end of Shadowbringers.

I don't usually prowl the forums but I figured this is the best chance of getting seen by a dev for an answer to this anomaly.
I once filed a bug report but they didn't consider it a bug.

I can also post in the Japanese forum section but I'm pretty daunted at my skill in Japanese.

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No need to appologize as I said read there was nerf. But I have remebered reading during developement the bosses had additional mechanics but were disabled as the devs felt it made things too hard. Guess I somehow got the two mix togather.

Wait people are already skipping mechanics? We should not be worried about minium ilvl in the first week of the patch.
If in the first patch we are already skipping mechs the problem is bigger than a simply min ilvl feature

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Originally Posted by CodeAvellus

Wait people are already skipping mechanics? We should not be worried about minium ilvl in the first week of the patch.
If in the first patch we are already skipping mechs the problem is bigger than a simply min ilvl feature

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This is common in a lot of new content because it's scaled for a casual item level, so when some of the people in it are raiders with the max item level, things get skipped from the first week. The reason mechanics don't get skipped on the first day is because nobody knows the mechanics and they die a lot, reducing damage to the bosses. The raid is scaled for 565 and some people in it will be 600 which is a big difference.

A lot of attacks that are designed to kill will stop killing in one hit just from raising the item level a tiny bit or using food, so without minimum item level things aren't as satisfying as they could be.

aren't you already doing it minimal ilvl?

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Originally Posted by AmpelioB

aren't you already doing it minimal ilvl?

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Nah. Minimum ILevel is 565, and often people doing Savage this tier were 580+ pretty early on. Those geared from the trials are nearly 600.

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

Nah. Minimum ILevel is 565, and often people doing Savage this tier were 580+ pretty early on. Those geared from the trials are nearly 600.

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hey I saw someone in The Ridorana Lighthouse on primal with your name earlier today!

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Originally Posted by AmpelioB

hey I saw someone in The Ridorana Lighthouse on primal with your name earlier today!

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Sounds like a suspicious imposter to me. :p

I suppose the raids from the more recent expansions will be available for minimum item level eventually, like Crystal Tower and the War of Magi thing (no clue about Ivalice, I'm already scared of the normal one). But I don't think for the new one that's currently a big issue. Not everyone has done all the normal raids, extremes, farmed plenty of tomestones for radient gear etc. that gives them a big advantage. From 24 people that's maybe the half of it. When we're shortly before 7.0 and we are much further away from the minimum item level (when the equivalent of Ironworks/Shire/Scaevan/Cryptlurker gear is out and plenty of people have their finished relics), the differences will be more noticeable.

That said, it varies a lot of what you miss out and I wonder if the devs aim for things to be less different, when you compare minimum item level vs maximum item level. I've watched a min ILvl run of the Crystal Tower and saw a ton of mechanics that I've never experienced before. Every fight had at least two or three things that seemed "new". When I did a minimum item level run of Void Ark and the Wiping City (I think...?) it was a very different experience, mostly bosses just took longer to beat, mechanics were repeated more and some started to overlap in a way that makes things much harder. (The black circle orb thingies in the geometry fight? Not a big deal with 2 per Alliance, an easy wipe with 5 or so.) It got tougher but not even close to the CT experience in terms of "owo wats dis". It would be interesting for me to see how big of a difference the other raids would make. :)

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

whats the point with min ilvl alliance raid ?

within or without, its a casual content where its impossible to wipe

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Yeah...wipes still happen in LoTA so please stop

Yeah that is an odd one. I can't imagine too many people using it but, still, it seems like it would be more work to exclude certain content than to have it all included. It's opt in anyways.

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Originally Posted by AmpelioB

aren't you already doing it minimal ilvl?

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Currently no.
A lot of the people in our first run generally had other FC members get them to ilvl 580 from crafted gear.

That's already a gigantic difference but you can also see the screenshot that I have ilvl 591 from progging savage.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

Yeah that is an odd one. I can't imagine too many people using it but, still, it seems like it would be more work to exclude certain content than to have it all included. It's opt in anyways.

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It's just so strange.
I mean the subset of the community I partake in for old content is very niche... But from one of the old live letters they do value having the option for players to be able to experience it.

I don't know how a super small part of this huge community can even get a community manager or dev's attention for something like this.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Min ilvl will change nothing about crystal tower. Its missing mechanics are disable, so lowering dps does nothing.

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thats BS right there. I have seen mechs with a fresh group in CT that havent seen since CT dropped. The mechanics are there just its dps so fast they don't happen.